I went through and told you how. You still said it wasnt connected.Mortai Gravesend said:
And like I said before that, that just leaves us at an impass with you calling something misrepresentation and me saying it's not. It comes full circle.
The slut issue
- Thread starter Kakashi on crack
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And like I said before that, that just leaves us at an impass with you calling something misrepresentation and me saying it's not. It comes full circle.
"Slut" is a perjorative term and carries judgement and disapproval whenever the term is used, the definition is so varied from culture to culture and person to person that it becomes hard to differentiate what is meant when the word is used and whether it particularly applies to their situation.
Unfortunately, when it comes to issues of sex and sexuality, double standards exists between the genders, men who sleep with a lot of women tend to be "admired" and the subject of others being jealous of them, but the opposite is true for women, women who sleep with a lot of men are looked down on and treated poorly, even if the sex is consensual.
Unfortunately, when it comes to issues of sex and sexuality, double standards exists between the genders, men who sleep with a lot of women tend to be "admired" and the subject of others being jealous of them, but the opposite is true for women, women who sleep with a lot of men are looked down on and treated poorly, even if the sex is consensual.
I explained it all in the earlier post. Connected the dots and all. Whether or not you choose to ignore it as not being enough is up to you.Mortai Gravesend said:
Because "gamer" is a neutral term and "slut" is an insulting term.Kakashi on crack said:
Describing a man who sleeps with men as "gay" is absolutely fine. But if you describe him as a "******" that's insulting.
Believe what you want. I know I'm not being dishonest here. So that's really all there is. But this has been fun all the same.Mortai Gravesend said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
I'm not being dishonest at all, in a peace loving society such as ours we will find violence and condemnation in almost anything, its virtually impossible to hold a strong opinion without offending or insulting someone else.
Could doesn't mean jack shit, it gives the possibility of another scenario. As for the connotations being negative that all depends on what you choose to read into it. The swastika has Nazi connotations attributed to it since WW2, but it always has positive connotations as well, which connotation applies relies on context... or would you call a member of the 45th Division (from WW1) a nazi?
There's no way to address your ****** comment subtly so I'll take it head on. Black people do call other ******. Its assumed that its a slur whether its intended to be or not. So be honest tell me, Black people using a word is ok, but White people using it is bad? Is that like a gay person calling another gay person a fag is ok but if one of them is straight thats just wrong and homophobic?
The term Slut is not merely "stating the fact that they have sex" like how "liar" means that they do the act of lying, or gamer means that they "game" (which is a verb) but there is no verb for "slut" there is not a single act of "slutting".Kakashi on crack said:
The term "slut" is MAKING A JUDGEMENT that they should not be having the AMOUNT sex they are having, as if you can somehow draw a line in their own lives but such a judgement is arbitrary.
The term "slut" is ABSOLUTELY NOT used - or understood to be used - for someone who has any sex at all.
Sex is not a bad thing, it's a highly socially acceptable thing and the negative connotations of the term "virgin" exemplify how important it is socially to get laid.
"It seems to me like you're just stating the obvious"
No it is NOT obvious! Your mother of course has had sex in order for you to exist (Unless you were conceived by in vitro fertillisation) but that doesn't make her a slut, I'm quite sure she's a wonderful woman. Actually stop and think about that, how would you like it everyone calling your dear mother a "slut" because she merely gave birth to you?
I'm sorry if that's a bit close, I don't know anything about your mother but I'm speaking broadly of everyone and their mothers.
Also "slut" is blatantly a sexist term as it simply DOES NOT STICK to men. Men can sleep with as many women as they like and there is no commonly understood term to denigrate them to the extent of "slut".
The term slut is used to CONTROL WOMEN! Mainly so one man can keep a woman all too him self, for example a woman is never called a slut if she only has sex with one man even if her boyfriend or husband is constantly using her.
Don't use the term slut, it has one purpose: to attack women who are as sexually free as men. Men are PROUD to have slept with as many different women, there is no shame in the number being high only being low. But a woman is shamed for experiencing more than one man by terms like "slut".
Summary:
-"Slut" is not a neutral descriptive term.
-It is a term of unfair arbitrary judgement
-It is sexist in its design, use and purpose
-You wouldn't accept it used against your own mother, don't use it against anyone else.
The term is used to refer primarily to females and it carries a lot of negative weight.Kakashi on crack said:
Males are referred to as "Lads", "Players" and all the rest for what they do. It is a good thing.
But, well, there is almost no point in me throwing my voice into this crowd. You know why using the term is wrong, you are just seeking validation for using it from other people.
If you are judging someone then its judgemental, if not how then would you suggest you refer to someone male or female who sleeps with large numbers of people? And for the record I have guy friends who I have and will continue to say are sluts.Treblaine said:
As for the fairness or arbitrariness of the word you're right, but lying and cheating can also fairly arbitrary and it does often depend on a certain point of view.
If it is so sexist and controlling and intended purely to shame a woman into submission so she meekly accepts that she is dirty and unclean and should be faithful only to the one man who took her virginity then why do women use it so very often?
In short a word is judgemental because you're judging. Call a Muslim a pig or a dog and thats one hell of a fight you're starting, call a Aussie a pig and he'll just shrug it off. It all depends on context.
As an Afro-negro-dark skinned thing, I fully indorse white people calling black people the N word as much as they want.MagunBFP said:
Freedom of speech up in this *****!
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I just wanted to point out that the textbook definition says it's a derogatory term, so it makes sense that people would assume it's an insult.Shadowstar38 said:
Definition form dictionary.com:
1. an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.
2. Obsolete . a dirty, slovenly woman.
Freedictionary.com
1.a. A person, especially a woman, considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.
2. A slovenly woman; a slattern.
1. a dirty slatternly woman
2. an immoral woman
3. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Animals) Archaic a female dog
Wikipedia
Slut or slattern is a term applied to an individual who is considered to have loose sexual morals or who is sexually promiscuous. The term is generally pejorative and most often applied to women as an insult or offensive term of disparagement, meaning "dirty or slovenly." However, some women have demonstrated saying they are proud of being "sluts" and want to give it a positive connotation.
Those are the 3 first things in google anyway, as you can see they all say that it's negative, though Wikipedia says that it does have some people that see it as a positive, I won't argue more since English isn't my first language and I only use it on the Internet and to watch films without subtitles, I will not pretend to know how is it that you people use that word, but in any case this argument between you 2 has been going on all day, don't you guys get tired?
Allow me to direct you to this.Kaleion said:
I believe you have gained full understanding now.
I've seen a couple of people attempting to justify their use by "If she's offended it's because she can't handle the truth/deep down feels that what she is doing is wrong."
Nope. While there may be specific cases of this, most people aren't offended by things because you've reached deep into their soul and found their crippling insecurity and just given them an epiphany. If I call you a jackass, the likelihood of you going "Hey.... maybe I'm a jackass." is pretty low I'm guessing. It's possible, but I think we'd be justified in assuming the reason the word is hurtful is not usually because of some deep down realisation. That's textbook victim blame. If I use words which imply judgement or distaste for someone, and they feel judged or that someone is disgusted by them, which offends them, that's on me, and I'm not doing them some kind of service by doing so. Humans are social, and we feel the impact of social pressures.
People are usually offended by the social meaning of the word, and that it's being applied to them. It's to do with how they value how people percieve them. Ever notice how if you annoy even slightly the roid-raging insecure overbearing types, they go nuts? Or if you try to insult slackers, it tends to be fruitless? It's because insults are primarily a social thing, and depend on the value that a person places on the language and those involved. Yes, I'm generalising. Deal with it, I'm sure you can read the rest into it.
Look at say, the gay community. They were told for a long period of time that they were wrong, that they were abominations, that they were damnable. Now, whether or not they believed that themselves, and indeed, some of them did, the sense of judgement and alienation from society was one of the bigger issues. People insulting them wasn't rekindling some long-denied truth, it was alienating them from society, which is where the hurt comes from. Most people value societal acceptance, and fear being hated or dismissed.
As several have pointed out, refer to a black person by the N-word. They're not going to treat it as if you've described their person. You've used a word which implies a history of inequality, and implies a distaste for them on your part. Deep down, they aren't going "Maybe I am just a N*****." They're going "This jackass thinks he's able to call me that?" It's the social context that matters to language, a social construct.
I think the real problem here is that you're trying to justify the use of the word in the absence of another word without negative connotations for people who enjoy promiscuity and sex for the sake of sex. We don't need to try to take the offensive word for this, we just make another. And for this, I fully endorse Abandon's suggestion, with Caffiene's amendment: Schwinning is sleeping around, and those who do, are Schwinners. And if they're doing it whilst on massive amounts of cocaine, they're bi-Schwinning!
Nope. While there may be specific cases of this, most people aren't offended by things because you've reached deep into their soul and found their crippling insecurity and just given them an epiphany. If I call you a jackass, the likelihood of you going "Hey.... maybe I'm a jackass." is pretty low I'm guessing. It's possible, but I think we'd be justified in assuming the reason the word is hurtful is not usually because of some deep down realisation. That's textbook victim blame. If I use words which imply judgement or distaste for someone, and they feel judged or that someone is disgusted by them, which offends them, that's on me, and I'm not doing them some kind of service by doing so. Humans are social, and we feel the impact of social pressures.
People are usually offended by the social meaning of the word, and that it's being applied to them. It's to do with how they value how people percieve them. Ever notice how if you annoy even slightly the roid-raging insecure overbearing types, they go nuts? Or if you try to insult slackers, it tends to be fruitless? It's because insults are primarily a social thing, and depend on the value that a person places on the language and those involved. Yes, I'm generalising. Deal with it, I'm sure you can read the rest into it.
Look at say, the gay community. They were told for a long period of time that they were wrong, that they were abominations, that they were damnable. Now, whether or not they believed that themselves, and indeed, some of them did, the sense of judgement and alienation from society was one of the bigger issues. People insulting them wasn't rekindling some long-denied truth, it was alienating them from society, which is where the hurt comes from. Most people value societal acceptance, and fear being hated or dismissed.
As several have pointed out, refer to a black person by the N-word. They're not going to treat it as if you've described their person. You've used a word which implies a history of inequality, and implies a distaste for them on your part. Deep down, they aren't going "Maybe I am just a N*****." They're going "This jackass thinks he's able to call me that?" It's the social context that matters to language, a social construct.
I think the real problem here is that you're trying to justify the use of the word in the absence of another word without negative connotations for people who enjoy promiscuity and sex for the sake of sex. We don't need to try to take the offensive word for this, we just make another. And for this, I fully endorse Abandon's suggestion, with Caffiene's amendment: Schwinning is sleeping around, and those who do, are Schwinners. And if they're doing it whilst on massive amounts of cocaine, they're bi-Schwinning!
00Slash love the link but you mention that people don't get sexually assualted for being gamers, and you're right... nerds, dorks, "outsiders" of whatever flavour just get bullied and assualted, verbally or physically (you've been to highschool or college?). Women who aren't "sluts" get sexually assualted as well as the sluts. That people do use the word as an insult doesn't make it a bad word, it's just a descriptor, like happy or gay or bald.
At the end of the day I don't care who you sleep with or how often you get laid. If its not relevant to the conversation its not going to come up, but if its relevant to conversation I'm going to use the work I think fits, all I can do is be responsible for the words that come out of my mouth, and allow you to read into them whatever you like. If I say you have alot of sex with different people and you think I'm calling you a terrible person thats on you.
At the end of the day I don't care who you sleep with or how often you get laid. If its not relevant to the conversation its not going to come up, but if its relevant to conversation I'm going to use the work I think fits, all I can do is be responsible for the words that come out of my mouth, and allow you to read into them whatever you like. If I say you have alot of sex with different people and you think I'm calling you a terrible person thats on you.
Not denying the existence of double standards, but this statement does need some qualification.lunavixen said:
It depends the rung of the social ladder and age. I am 24, and I move about in circles that are highly educated, and this double standard doesn't exist. People who have a lot of casual sex are... people who have a lot of casual sex.
As for the lower classes/"rabble"... Who cares how they think and do?