The Story Snob
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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Ya know story can take a flying leap for all I care I am not watching a game I am interacting with it, if the game mechanics are fuckared or poorly implamaneted(Bioshock,Fallout 3, most AAA titles made in the last 5 years) what was the point of me playing it? I could care less about cinemagic,effect and the crap the media industry dose to distract you from the core of the media you are consuming ......
I think it speaks well of the Escapist that there is not a single "Holy crap, SONIC UNLEASHED?!" post. A legitimate one. It's so refreshing after using the RS forums for so long...just wanted to say that. I'm sure you guys know you're awesome.
Edit: Wait, no, there they are...but none on the first page! Go us!
Anywho, the article: exactly! I'm a story snob myself, I suppose, but I really don't mind when a game lacks one. As well as being a Nintendo fan, I'm a big flash gamer, and real plots are few and far between in that genre. It's just about gameplay, and when the gameplay works...that's all you need.
Probably the game I most regret buying in all my life is The Conduit. It is a competently-made shooter, but the story is GOD AWFUL, and they make you sit through cringe-worthy exposition after every mission. Honestly...games like that should always have a skip option. I don't even life shooters, with a few exceptions. Lord knows what possessed me to buy that game.
Edit: Wait, no, there they are...but none on the first page! Go us!
Anywho, the article: exactly! I'm a story snob myself, I suppose, but I really don't mind when a game lacks one. As well as being a Nintendo fan, I'm a big flash gamer, and real plots are few and far between in that genre. It's just about gameplay, and when the gameplay works...that's all you need.
Probably the game I most regret buying in all my life is The Conduit. It is a competently-made shooter, but the story is GOD AWFUL, and they make you sit through cringe-worthy exposition after every mission. Honestly...games like that should always have a skip option. I don't even life shooters, with a few exceptions. Lord knows what possessed me to buy that game.
Oh... I am a moron.Tom Phoenix said:Not G. Ivingname said:Excuse me?Shamus Young said:Took until comment #40 until we got one!Not G. Ivingname said:
In any case, brilliant article, Shamus. I could not agree more with your thoughts.Shamus Young said:
I think the problem with game developers is that they are unwilling to pay for top quality storytelling. They are willing to hire top-of-the-line artists, voice actors, musicians.....but when it comes to story, they are content with using a scribble a developer made during lunch.
Basically, if they want to convey good stories, they need to start hiring people that will make good stories. They should not be content with merely making something up as they go along.
I'd certainly give credit to Rockstar with their sandbox games like Red Dead and Grand Theft Auto series respectively. Their racing games are... well, racing. What more story do you need other than you have to continue to compete? Why else are you playing the damn game if you DON'T want to race?
I also thought Saints Row didn't do too bad of a job telling a story. It wasn't quite top-notch, but provided enough motivation to continue playing.
However, I have witnessed some flash games with a more compelling story than some big budget titles. And what does that say? A couple of kids in a bedroom can craft a better story than hired professionals.
Also, I feel sometimes that some games focus entirely too much on a story, giving you the impression you are playing more of a semi-interactive movie than a game. Mass Effect 2 had moments like that, just moving from checkpoint to checkpoint to see a story unfold through cut scenes. Not that I am complaining because it offered a slight respite from the action, but there have been games that give you a little actual game time and a majority of cut scenes.
I too grew up in the 8-bit era where cut scenes weren't long drawn-out ten minutes mini-movies to tell the story. We used our imagination to fill in the blanks sometimes. But decent story-driven games like Red Dead Redemption (which I'm still currently knee-deep in) give me decent hope for the future.
I also thought Saints Row didn't do too bad of a job telling a story. It wasn't quite top-notch, but provided enough motivation to continue playing.
However, I have witnessed some flash games with a more compelling story than some big budget titles. And what does that say? A couple of kids in a bedroom can craft a better story than hired professionals.
Also, I feel sometimes that some games focus entirely too much on a story, giving you the impression you are playing more of a semi-interactive movie than a game. Mass Effect 2 had moments like that, just moving from checkpoint to checkpoint to see a story unfold through cut scenes. Not that I am complaining because it offered a slight respite from the action, but there have been games that give you a little actual game time and a majority of cut scenes.
I too grew up in the 8-bit era where cut scenes weren't long drawn-out ten minutes mini-movies to tell the story. We used our imagination to fill in the blanks sometimes. But decent story-driven games like Red Dead Redemption (which I'm still currently knee-deep in) give me decent hope for the future.
I reject the entire concept of a "story snob." There is only good storytelling or bad storytelling and people who enjoy it or are oblivious and just want to "Hulk smash!"
My excitement about video games is the raft of new and exciting ways we can interact with story. By tinkering with how much is exposition through cut scenes and the like and how much is experiential through game play.
This is another way the movie comparison breaks down. This is an entirely new and different form and it is just beginning to be explored by talented game creators. Each new success is really exciting and revolutionary and even the noble failures offer some instruction.
Shamus, I am enjoying everything of yours I have recently read and am eagerly backtracking through your work. It's like breaking open a treasure chest!
My excitement about video games is the raft of new and exciting ways we can interact with story. By tinkering with how much is exposition through cut scenes and the like and how much is experiential through game play.
This is another way the movie comparison breaks down. This is an entirely new and different form and it is just beginning to be explored by talented game creators. Each new success is really exciting and revolutionary and even the noble failures offer some instruction.
Shamus, I am enjoying everything of yours I have recently read and am eagerly backtracking through your work. It's like breaking open a treasure chest!
I have to agree with this article 100%. All my life I've been asking myself one question when it comes to games: If it isn't meant to be used, then why did they waste time on it?
That question isn't just about the story of a game, but about ANYTHING in the game. RPGs are the worst culprit for making me ask the question, and a lot of it boils down to spells. Specifically, status-ailment spells. They always feel completely needless or redundant. Anytime you see a "Sleep" or "Silence" spell in an RPG you can bet one of three things:
A) The spell has about a 10% hit rate.
B) The character casting the spell could be casting a spell that would just kill the target anyway.
C) All of the above.
Seems C tends to be the usual culprit. But seriously, load-up any RPG you play, ANY of them. You will have at LEAST one spell like that in your caster's spellbook (or if you have buy them, then it's collecting dust in the store's shelves), and with some RPGs you might even have dozens of them. Final Fantasy is probably the worst at this to varying degrees depending on which game.
And it isn't just spells. Sometimes it's character classes, sometimes it's a piece of gear that the developers HAVE to know is useless by the time you get it (they made the game for cripes sake), maybe a useless type of potion... basically just anything in any game where you ask about it and the common response is "It's garbage don't worry about it". My question at that point (assuming I could ask the developers) is "Why did you bother putting it in there, then?" If a game has even one flaw to it, then that useless spell or item is development time that could have been spent polishing that flaw.
Hoy... that turned-out a little more ranty than expected.
That question isn't just about the story of a game, but about ANYTHING in the game. RPGs are the worst culprit for making me ask the question, and a lot of it boils down to spells. Specifically, status-ailment spells. They always feel completely needless or redundant. Anytime you see a "Sleep" or "Silence" spell in an RPG you can bet one of three things:
A) The spell has about a 10% hit rate.
B) The character casting the spell could be casting a spell that would just kill the target anyway.
C) All of the above.
Seems C tends to be the usual culprit. But seriously, load-up any RPG you play, ANY of them. You will have at LEAST one spell like that in your caster's spellbook (or if you have buy them, then it's collecting dust in the store's shelves), and with some RPGs you might even have dozens of them. Final Fantasy is probably the worst at this to varying degrees depending on which game.
And it isn't just spells. Sometimes it's character classes, sometimes it's a piece of gear that the developers HAVE to know is useless by the time you get it (they made the game for cripes sake), maybe a useless type of potion... basically just anything in any game where you ask about it and the common response is "It's garbage don't worry about it". My question at that point (assuming I could ask the developers) is "Why did you bother putting it in there, then?" If a game has even one flaw to it, then that useless spell or item is development time that could have been spent polishing that flaw.
Hoy... that turned-out a little more ranty than expected.
I'm in the "gameplay first" camp, but Sins of a Solar Empire is an example of a really good game that essentially has no story, and feels empty as a result. Playing it, I feel adrift without much motivation to conquer the system other than killing time. Story can make all the difference in filling in a game world.
In my opinion gaming can only go so far regarding the quality of the story, especially gaming in today's form (read: no adventure games). The best thing a game can hope for is to craft a convincing world around a sound premise, not come off as ridiculous and interweave the story closely with the gameplay so it feels fresh and interactive. Therefore simple stories with an emotional impact work best in this medium. When you try to get too verbal, you get snorefests (sorry Bioware, absolutely noone actually sat down and read your Codex). If you want to occupy your mind with intriguing, exciting cobweb-like stories, movies are the way to go (see Memento or The Usual Suspects) and of course books. The difference is that movies can go both ways, they can also be very simple but with great emotional impact (see: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376968/ ), but I don't think this is the case with videogames.
The logic follows, but then you are left with either a) a movie, or b) an adventure game. As much as I like adventure games, they all can't be The Longest Journey. Sooner or later (as they already have in the past) they will become stale and we will get stuck with our second JRPG genera.pyrus7 said:
I'm a HUGE story snob! I've often said, "No story, no point [in my playing]!" This goes for any form of entertainment; books, movies, gaming like D&D. Action without the motivation and joy of interesting characters, plot development, and generally imaginative foreplay for my brain, is not interesting action.
Take the movies, Transformers 1 and 2 by Bay. Forget for a minute that Bay butchered a childhood icon on a multitude of levels, and focus on the "story" and "characters." As per the original, there's about a bazzinion different transformers on either side. But when they start biting the dust in all the action, do we really care? No. Looks cool. Bay can really crash a car, and make it look impressive, but we don't really care when that transformer dies. Take Optimus Prime; he died in the original series, and I CRIED for a whole day! I was lost in a sea of sorrow for this robo truck that had a depth of character my child-brain couldn't understand. He died, I cried, and the show was instantly sure to stay in my mind forever. Bay killed Optimus, and yaknow what? Don't care. There was no real character development.
(I wouldn't have minded that Transformers was focused on the humans more than the Transformers themselves, if the humans had interesting character development that made me actually care about them. Also, I'm sorry I'm going all MovieBob on you all. I needed an example and "Megan Fox not in transformers 3" in the links below gave me what I needed.)
I was surprised when I saw Sonic Unleased. I thought, "really? It's got a story worthy of a story snobs praise? Huh. Maybe I should give it a shot." Almost had me there, mr smartypants.
Take the movies, Transformers 1 and 2 by Bay. Forget for a minute that Bay butchered a childhood icon on a multitude of levels, and focus on the "story" and "characters." As per the original, there's about a bazzinion different transformers on either side. But when they start biting the dust in all the action, do we really care? No. Looks cool. Bay can really crash a car, and make it look impressive, but we don't really care when that transformer dies. Take Optimus Prime; he died in the original series, and I CRIED for a whole day! I was lost in a sea of sorrow for this robo truck that had a depth of character my child-brain couldn't understand. He died, I cried, and the show was instantly sure to stay in my mind forever. Bay killed Optimus, and yaknow what? Don't care. There was no real character development.
(I wouldn't have minded that Transformers was focused on the humans more than the Transformers themselves, if the humans had interesting character development that made me actually care about them. Also, I'm sorry I'm going all MovieBob on you all.
I needed an example and "Megan Fox not in transformers 3" in the links below gave me what I needed.)I was surprised when I saw Sonic Unleased. I thought, "really? It's got a story worthy of a story snobs praise? Huh. Maybe I should give it a shot." Almost had me there, mr smartypants.
Takes a big man to admit when he's been had.Not G. Ivingname said:Oh... I am a moron.Tom Phoenix said:Not G. Ivingname said:Excuse me?Shamus Young said:Took until comment #40 until we got one!Not G. Ivingname said:
In any case, brilliant article, Shamus. I could not agree more with your thoughts.Shamus Young said:
I think the problem with game developers is that they are unwilling to pay for top quality storytelling. They are willing to hire top-of-the-line artists, voice actors, musicians.....but when it comes to story, they are content with using a scribble a developer made during lunch.
Basically, if they want to convey good stories, they need to start hiring people that will make good stories. They should not be content with merely making something up as they go along.
And you have been had ever so gloriously. Let this be a finger waggling lession to you, young man! Always finish reading the article before challenging something it has to say. 
Not G. Ivingname said:
^ Point and laugh kids. Point and laugh.TsunamiWombat said:
Well, I'd say that that says a lot about your articles and the The Escapist community. Crushing majority of people will read your articles through before commenting. That can't be a bad thing.Shamus Young said:Took until comment #40 until we got one!