The Victims of Homosexuality

[Xhoyl]

snip

I'm not trying to seem like a good guy or publicly like try and call you out on your point. I just was wondering, because my personal experience and fears as a homosexual that lives in the closet.

I often see people say they are against gays or gay rights but for them as a person. I am not really able to understand very well myself.

Yeah, it's definitely an odd standpoint, I'll admit. But that's good, if I was like everyone else, no one would ever listen to me I'm gonna level with you though, I can't even begin to imagine the struggles a gay person has, because the possibility has never entered my mind. I love woman, perhaps to a fault, but I feel for you and everyone like you despite my lack of understanding. Because I know what it's like to be bashed, to be hated, to be persecuted, even though no one knows who you really are. It makes me angry to think people would judge you as a person because of what you do with your life. I have seen many good people who do things they regret, but they are still worthy of being treated like everybody else.

 

[tipp6353]

I may get hate for this but, I think homosexuality is wrong but I do not hate those people for it nor do I criticize them for that choice in their life.

 

[Palademon]

While I agree with whats being said, I find it sad that is has to be voiced.

Same.

And that was also my reaction to Susan Arendt joining in a panel about female gamers not hating all female characters and how they're portrayed.

I literally facepalmed that people found what they said suprising.

"Is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

Edit: Why the hell isn't my line after the last quote showing up?
I'll type it again:
Kind of a moot point when most people don't think it's a bad thing.

 

[Lord Kloo]

Although this isn't really an issue on the escapist, this message needs to be conveyed around the internet.. it is startling that in this age people still cannot accept other people's choices/lives..

Hell even on the online newspaper sites such as the Telegraph, the Guardian or even the Independent (all good British newspapers) have haters in their comments sections, says something about the state of the world today..

 

[Darknacht]

snip

I'm not trying to seem like a good guy or publicly like try and call you out on your point. I just was wondering, because my personal experience and fears as a homosexual that lives in the closet.

I often see people say they are against gays or gay rights but for them as a person. I am not really able to understand very well myself.

Some people have a very hard time changing their religions or have reasons why they believe what they do. I believe that anyone who is part of a religion that believe that someone doing something that in no way harms anyone else is still committing a sin should reexamine their religion, but it is their choice. Xhoyl is trying to show that even if you don't agree with a persons behavior you don't have to bash them if they are not harming anyone. I strongly disagree with Xhoyl but I don't think we should be attacking him. There are people on these forums that are strongly homophobic but Xhoyl does not seem to be one of them so we should let him express is opinion, that being gay is wrong but should not be attack, and give him the courtesy of of telling him that he is wrong but not attacking him. I have known very nice religious people who truly that it is wrong to not believe what they do but where still close friends and deeply respected people of other religions, it seems odd but its not that uncommon.

 

[CaptainOctopus]

I may get hate for this but, I think homosexuality is wrong but I do not hate those people for it nor do I criticize them for that choice in their life.

Why do you think it is wrong?

 

[alexxcodered]

Oh, let us once again light a candle for all those people who have a massive amounts of support on the internet, in the media, and in popular culture and pretend like they're victims. Because obviously, the only people who kill themselves did it because they were bullied and depressed, not because popular culture repeatedly suggested to them that this was a valid way to deal with their emotional problems. Gay people are the ONLY people on the planet who have serious problems reconciling their sexuality with their personal lives and have trouble getting laid. It's not like every major city and many small towns don't have bars, clubs, and freaking parades exclusively catered to other like minded people.

It's 2012. Get over yourselves. Do yourself a favor and go on any straight dating site and check out the ratio of available straight men to available straight women. Maybe check out chat roulette some time, too. Maybe I'm just an embittered undersexed bastard with a bad attitude, but if I have to keep hearing about how bad gay people have it nowadays, I'm gonna scream. Because to me, it would be pretty freaking awesome if heterosexuals had a united cultural/political viewpoint, an identity, places to go to meet people, a persecution complex, and the general understanding that all involved want relationships and sex. And on top of that, wanting those things doesn't make you a bad person or a player or a slut or a whore or whatever.

Actually, there are places devoted to straights, straight culture etc, it's called everywhere! What you don't seem to realize is that even though it is 2012, people are still hated, assaulted, abused, even killed over being "Gay"

Also, i would imagine that it's pretty damn traumatic to realize that you were into your own gender, especially if you were raised in a society that hates LGBT people. (Like for example MOST of them) Although there are a lot of exclusively gay places, there are also a lot of biggots that still exist, that alienate gays, which means they need those places.

Also, and i know that people won't like me much for saying this, but i believe that every bigot, every hater, every unaccepting piece of scum deserves to suffer the fate that they want for the people they hate. I accept that bigots exist, but i picture a world where they don't exist, and i say, won't that be a much better world?

Free of fear over things they can't control, no more skin color based hatred, no more sexuality based hatred, no more personality based hatred, and no more physical or mental disorder based hatred

And that's a world we won't see as long as people like you exist, Mr zelda2fanboy

 

[Westaway]

I just made a delicious shrimp and pasta dish. Restaurant quality. I paid $9 for all the ingrediants. I learned from a book. Buying the same dish, but frozen, less tasty and more fatty would cost around.$15. Makimg food is cheaper and easy. There is no excuse besides actual sicknesses.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you?

Here's a hint: Poor folk don't eat shrimp pasta dishes. Your $9 that you spent on one meal may well have been an entire day's food budget. Hell, you have to spend almost half that to just get a pound of fresh fruit, which has a nasty habit of spoiling. So you buy the shit in the can. Less good for you, but you can afford it. That's where the nasty frozen crap comes in. "Bad for you" is cheaper, even moreso in bulk but it has to keep.

No, frankly I don't think you understand. I'm am poor as all hell. I have done my research. Frozen food is A LOT more expensive than making it yourself. Shrimps were on sale. Spaghetti is already cheap. Lemon. A couple herbs that granted I got for free, but still. And my example was, for the lack of a better word "fancy" to show that you can make really nice dishes yourself. I could have easily pointed out that you can buy way cheaper ingredients and make a really cheap dish, like plain pasta with jarred tomato sauce, which would be around $4.
I'm sorry I sound so hostile, but the idea that frozen food is cheaper pisses me off.

 

[Darknacht]

I just made a delicious shrimp and pasta dish. Restaurant quality. I paid $9 for all the ingrediants. I learned from a book. Buying the same dish, but frozen, less tasty and more fatty would cost around.$15. Makimg food is cheaper and easy. There is no excuse besides actual sicknesses.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you?

Here's a hint: Poor folk don't eat shrimp pasta dishes. Your $9 that you spent on one meal may well have been an entire day's food budget. Hell, you have to spend almost half that to just get a pound of fresh fruit, which has a nasty habit of spoiling. So you buy the shit in the can. Less good for you, but you can afford it. That's where the nasty frozen crap comes in. "Bad for you" is cheaper, even moreso in bulk but it has to keep.

Your right $9 is absurdly expensive and Westaway is totally out of touch with reality.
But you know what is much cheaper then a frozen meal? Bulk raw ingredients and many things like frozen vegetables, whole wheat flour, dry beans, ect. This is far cheaper than most bad for you food and very good for you. It takes very little time to prepare a simple meal from raw or mostly raw dry/canned goods. $9 will last far more then a day and it will be healthy. Also the idea with most fresh ingredients that are hard to get quality that will store is buy cheap, if you are spending more then $1-2 a pound on fresh fruit then you should probably buy a cheaper kind.
If you live in some odd area where you don't have a way to cook food or flour is $1lb and bananas cost $3lb then I apologize if not you really don't have an excuse.

 

[The Funslinger]

Well put. Though I don't think I've seen anyone on these particular forums make homophobic comments, that's exactly the sort of thing that needs to be said to people that think the internet veil of anonymity is their free pass to do whatever the hell they want.

This video was made by students at my university. I recognise some, and a few I'm good friends with, including some that I didn't even know were gay. Anyway, it made me feel all tingly inside.

Come on man, get some George Takei up in this shit!



The man is a God.

 

[tensorproduct]

Savage, the guy who originally came up with it, IIRC, completely denies the existence of bisexuality. You're either gay or straight, maybe you're going through a phase, maybe you're doing it for attention, but you absolutely cannot be bisexual.

This is flat-out incorrect. Just from Googling "Dan Savage bisexuality", I get the following results:

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/bisexuals/Content?oid=8743322
"Bisexuals - You Need to Come Out to Your Friends and Spouses?Now"

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/08/16/9534403-case-closed-bisexual-men-exist/
"Bisexual Men Exist!"

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=2859
This one on the surface isn't the most bi-friendly, but it sure as hell acknowledges that bisexuals exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2sIf_sVYuc
Q: Do you think that bisexuals exist?
A: Yes, of course!


In the YouTube link video, he goes into more detail, but the gist of it is that Dan Savage thinks that not everybody that identifies as bisexual is in fact bisexual.

As for the comment on race... huh? I can't think of any time that he has weighed in on any discussion regarding race, and I've seen plenty of It Gets Better videos from non-white people. I have no idea what you're basing that on. Link please?

 

[laggyteabag]

I never understood why being gay is considered an insult, not being gay myself, I shouldn't get offended by these comments, but strangely I do. Whenever someone calls another person gay I say to them "Whats wrong with being Gay?", after that most people just shut up, or say that they don't know.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I would agree with you, but honestly I think people reducing a complex issue down to a straw man "I HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND! YOU"RE WRONG!" argument have done more harm to the world then every homophobic asshole combined. Your argument is right in spirit, but you're going about it in the wrong way.

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

Homosexuals.

I'm sure it's pretty easy to sit on your comfy chair, behind your keyboard and protected by the shroud of internet anonymity while you tell everyone how wrong it is to be gay, or how immoral it is, how your god doesn't approve, how you think it's icky, etc., etc. But you know what? Shut up. Just shut up. People like that are the reason gay teens especially and adults kill themselves. While you sit there and safely tell the world how in your mind it is fucked up to be attracted to consenting adults who happen to be the same gender, people are hearing it, reading it and being told it on a daily basis. Normal people. Strangers, friends, family members, co-workers--people who you know and love, and people you've never met. These people have to listen to you tell them how sick they are. Yeah, freedom of speech; you have every right to voice your opinion. But you know what? I don't care. Shut up. You're wrong, you're a bigot and you harm people in ways some never recover from.

The only victims of homosexuality are the boy, girls, men and women who are picked on, harassed, devalued, ignored, shunned, beaten, bullied, neglected, belittled, assaulted, driven to depression; suicide and self-harm, and the people flat out murdered because close-minded asshats have a problem with what someone does behind close doors. The people who did nothing to anyone. The guy who lives next door. The woman at work. The boy at the park. The girl at school. They didn't hurt a single person and they didn't choose to be who they are. They are human beings and they want to be left alone, to fall in love with another human being and to live in peace, without people seeing their sexuality as weird and harmful to their children. They want to come to their favourite video game website and not see a bunch of bigots talking about how sick they are--they get enough of it in their every-fucking-day life.

So next time you wanna tell us all how 'wrong' and 'sick' it is to be gay, or you feel like expressing your horror at a child seeing a gay couple holding hands, take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this: who's creating the victims here?

Very well said, and I agree with you 100%. One of the seniors at my school gave a speech about his own struggle of coming out as gay which said exactly this. Very well said.

 

[Xhoyl]

I strongly disagree with your beliefs about gays and I haven ever regarded any religeon as a reasonable basis for such beliefs, but I have vast quantities of admiration for your desire to stand by principles of kindness and decency, and stand up and be counted for the sake of protecting those who you don't even agree with. It's one thing to defend what you agree with, and another thing entirely to put principles ahead of personal preference in order to defend those you disagree with so that they can continue to enjoy the same rights as you do when they are under threat.

Carry on, sir. Carry on.

I do, however, have one thing to raise: logically, that means that you can "choose" to be gay, right? If you really wanted to, you'd be able to alter you sexual preferences to fit self-imposed desires and become gay.

I mean, OK. Would you put money on it? I can probably rustle up a few test subjects for this one.

Hell, I'm slightly bi myself. Is it your sincere belief I can stop that altogether? And that you, if you so desired, could alter your sexual preferences?

Incidentally, what religeon is it you follow? Don't worry, I'm not going to start jumping down your throat or anything. If this turns into a continuing discussion, just put up a red flag at any point and I'll stop.

Well, I had hoped to gloss over that since it tends to be a hot button issue, but if you're asking me, I'll tell you. I'm LDS, or as most people know us, Mormon. Now keep in mind, for a Mormon I am very odd, in that a lot of the things that bother most of them do not bother me. As a religion, we vary quite widely in individual stances, because a lot of it is actually left up to us to interpret our beliefs. Crazy right? Sure we have some general rules, but ultimately we decide for ourselves instead of following a stringent list. For example, I have an uncle who absolutely refuses to let his kids watch anything over G rating. Which I think is completely looney. I don't think sheltering children so heavily does them any good in the long run. While my parents usually didn't mind us watching PG-13 stuff. As an adult, I even sometimes watch rated R movies, if I think it's worth it. Language doesn't bother me either, so people can say whatever they want around or at me, and it just rolls off my back.

But as far as the homosexuality thing is concerned, we believe that our sex is a major part of who we are, not just a random thing we were born into. Even so much that before life, we think we lived somewhere before that, as our current selves, just in a spirit form. Anyway, enough about that, you probably think I'm nuts. I'm used to it. But if you have any questions feel free to ask me

 

[3vil Necro]

Ok, lets just be blunt. Homosexuality is a choice, it is a matter that applies to the individual and only in very specific or unusual circumstances does it effect others. Only idiots and zealots will persecute someone for a harmless life choice. So if your religion states that homosexuality is wrong, fine. Let it be wrong to you, just don't wave your opinion around like a battle standard every time you see a gay man or lesbian. And if you do don't act like a holier-than-thou dumbass and scream about your right to free speech when they call you on it. Now if your gay and living louder than a hot pink Cadillac don't be offended by every comment you get. The standard works both ways if my opinion of homosexuality is negative I have the right to my opinion as do you, don't act like the torch waving morons: share your damn opinion and challenge my logic with your own. Trolling is pointless in the face of a valid debate where the discussion doesn't sink to "OMG your a homo! Burn in hell!"

For the record: I am a heterosexual male, with a christian girlfriend, a homosexual brother, and an Agnostic personal religion. (haters load up).

 

[Tipsy Giant]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

It is not a choice it is due to the amount of testosterone released in the child while they are in the womb, science figured it out.
Thanks for calling out bullshit again Science, I love you

 

[3vil Necro]

Ok, lets just be blunt. Homosexuality is a choice

Why do people keep saying that even though the burden of evidence is taking on creationistic proportions?

And all the while it's offering ammunition to raging homophobes who then paint homosexuality on par with decisions like which groceries to buy. And all the arguments to keeping them silent in public that you provide won't defeat them anymore because you've already allowed the fundamentalists too much room to work in, and their special religious privileges do the rest.

Good point. Religious fervor and logic in the same discussion is about as likely as the second coming.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. You're in anger.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Actually, there are places devoted to straights, straight culture etc, it's called everywhere! What you don't seem to realize is that even though it is 2012, people are still hated, assaulted, abused, even killed over being "Gay"

Also, i would imagine that it's pretty damn traumatic to realize that you were into your own gender, especially if you were raised in a society that hates LGBT people. (Like for example MOST of them) Although there are a lot of exclusively gay places, there are also a lot of biggots that still exist, that alienate gays, which means they need those places.

Also, and i know that people won't like me much for saying this, but i believe that every bigot, every hater, every unaccepting piece of scum deserves to suffer the fate that they want for the people they hate. I accept that bigots exist, but i picture a world where they don't exist, and i say, won't that be a much better world?

Free of fear over things they can't control, no more skin color based hatred, no more sexuality based hatred, no more personality based hatred, and no more physical or mental disorder based hatred

And that's a world we won't see as long as people like you exist, Mr zelda2fanboy

http://theapplebites.com/top-8-gay-apps-for-ipad-iphone-ipod-touch/ As one of my favorite gay podcasters likes to point out, no matter where he goes in the world, he's always ten minutes away from a blowjob. Tell me again why I should feel sorry for these people. They don't need your pity. You standing up for them, does NOTHING. They are happy and are leading fun and enjoyable lives.

What you are saying was true for a long time, but it's really not anymore for the vast majority. All the bigots and religious types who don't "approve" hardly ever interact with gay guys and when they have to, they're so uncomfortable they barely ever say anything. I am so sick and tired of people treating homosexuality like it's a disease or a problem. It's not and you are NOT helping by doing so.