"There is nothing wrong being racist"

[DarkTenka]

The only big problem I have is with language barriers. When a foreigner cant speak my language and sits there straining to form a sentance for me I start to go a little nuts. Especially Indian people, their horrible accent is like glass on a chalkboard.

Don't get me wrong I will try my hardest to be patient, and I wouldnt try to bring harm to anyone. But if I had the choice/ability to avoid someone like that I would.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

If there was nothing wrong with being racist, then why do we, as a society, pretty much universally condemn it.

Anyone who judges anyone or thinks less of someone because of their skin colour is ignorant at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[Rodney Jackson]

snip

snippy/quote]

Yes I've seen the film. And it's one of my favourites.

And not really. Making a judgement about someone is fine. It's when people take one aspect of a person and then condemn them totally for it. And not just them, their friends aswell apparently. Because that's all Mortai thought he needed to completely write a person off as disgusting. Not even the person holding the views, but peoples willingness to still accept them as a friend afterwards.

All I have said is that you need to judge people by all their parts, not just one aspect of them. A person holding racist views is not necessarily a bad person. They may simply be ignorant of somethings, or for one reason or another set in their ways.

That's not to say you should accept what they're saying. Just that it may not reflect them as a complete person.

I think you and me at least are approaching a consensus

I make a distinction between prejudice and racism because the conversation can get muddled over the semantics over it all. I see Prejudice as being unfortunate, but natural and most of the time forgivable. Racism can be inflammatory or harmful, and should only be tolerated so far as to letting the party see error of their ways (if only for a quick and dirty definition).

People are more than just a single part. Basing everything on someone's worse traits can definitely be the mark of ignorance. Right there is where I agree with you.

Speaking personally I feel the language used by the OP's friend crosses the line between personal prejudices and racism, but it could very well just be his stupidity showing. If you feel that the OP shouldn't ditch him, or if place in that type of situation you wouldn't ditch him, then that's your prerogative. I wouldn't however, at least not if he was incapable of acknowledging how obtuse he was behaving. So on that issue I think best to agree to disagree.

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[Talshere]

I think everyone who posts on the internet about race should say what race they are first, if only because it would make it absolutely bloody obvious why it is that some people don't think racism is that bad, or that it's a "thing" anymore. (Hint: if you don't notice racism or think it's that bad, you've probably not spent much time on the receiving end of it.)

I'm white, but I'm also not stupid, wilfully ignorant or blind.

While I would never agrue that racism doesnt occur, the minoritys who are "discriminated" against do not help their own case... THEY help perpetuate the problem as much as ignorant white people.

I will illustrate.

I used to work in a corner shop owned by an Indian family. They are mixture of British Indian and true Indian (I'm British btw ). My brother worked there before me and my sister after me. Over year we became very good friends. During a frank discussion with oldest daughter who is what, 18 now (she was 11 or 12 when I first me her and this was some time ago now)? we got her to state her views on racism after she made a particularly scathing comment about "pakkies", we told her her it was racist to which she responded, and I shit you not this is verbatim, "Its cant be racist, only white people can be racist". Well where I grew up (where she was living at the time) is a predominantly publicly white community with a large up not really visible Chinese community...So she sure as hell didnt get that view from round me. The only place she COULD have got it is from her family, which means this is a pervading viewpoint within that section of society.

Another example, my sister had a massive set to with a member of her social group at school, they wernt really friend just part the same group. She saw a golliwog in a charityshop window. For those of you who dont know, back in my childhood there was a program called Noddy, there were a group, I loosly call them people who lived to cause mischife. They were called golliwogs. (this is a pic of the toys http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Golliwoggs_on_sale_2008.jpg/450px-Golliwoggs_on_sale_2008.jpg)

They have since been change ascetically slightly and are called gremlins or troll or something now. Anyway, my sister saw won of these dolls and in a fit of nostalgia said "OOO Its a golliwog its so cute, I want one" or something along those line. This guy, who was black, immediately turned around, called her a racist to her face and threatened to punch her if she didnt apologise immediately. To illustrate...I had to ask my mum, at the age of 19, why the guy had got so angry and was informed it used to be used as a racial slur.

Both of these responses are quite frankly DISGUSTING and racist in the worst kind because they didnt even REALISE they were being horrifically racist. If they refuse to stop seeing innocent comments as racist how can we EVER possibly stop racism? Its ALL we ever think about. Im happy to admit that racism is not extinct, but what I want OTHER people to realise is THIS IS NOT A ONE WAY PROBLEM!

Ethnic groups themselves perpetuate this problem by the refusal to see racism as something THEY can do and that something wanting a cute golliwog toy is JUST THAT. Sometimes, when you get turned down for a job and a white Cambridge upper middle class wanker get it ITS BECAUSE HIS GRADES AND INTERVIEW TECHNIQUE ARE BETTER! NOT BECAUSE THE UNI HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Sometimes that drunk guy that punch you did so cos your drunk to and he things your being an ass...NOT COS YOUR BLACK!


This is a constant sticking point for me. In the UK at least in some areas, Im genuinely starting to believe that white people are actually the victims of the most racism because there are lobbyist group everywhere looking out and protecting the interests of ethnic minorities in order to stop discrimination, but none for the ethnic majority, white Christians. I even submit that this very point in and of itself is discrimination.

 

[Smiley Face]

I think that, in some situations, it's possible and not a problem to be friends with someone with whom you might otherwise have differences. I have some friends who have beliefs I disagree with, and do things I disagree with - but they're not part of our friendship because they know I have a problem with that stuff and they keep it far away from me - it doesn't enter into our friendship, and as such, our friendship is the same.

The problem is that your friend has now made his racism a part of your friendship, and you need to decide how to deal with it. I think I agree with the idea that to not say anything would be wrong - you need to object to him, and have the conversation. If it somehow resolves itself to a point where the issue comes to rest, as long as it never, ever rears its head again, and you're comfortable with maintaining your friendship, I don't see why your friendship shouldn't be able to continue.

With that said, I don't know anyone who's a racist, at least on the level being described here. Maybe some people have minor, minor prejudices based on their upbringing or whatever, but they're aware of them, don't act on them, and try to change them - and as long as they're trying to change it, I don't see how it's their fault any more than a mental disorder of some sort. I don't think I've ever met someone who's that racist, and as such, I really can't say whether it's possible to resolve issues with an unrepentant racist - I've just, to my knowledge, never met one.

What I DO disagree with is the notion being flung around that someone's being racist entirely invalidates every other good quality about them. Yes, it's a bad quality. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, it's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, and deserving of re-education. But it doesn't invalidate their value as a person. For thousands of years, people have been racists, and still done great and good things. They were bad in their racism, but good in their other aspects, and the one does not invalidate the other. To denounce all racists as irredeemably evil monsters strikes me as hilariously, and darkly, hypocritical; you're not looking at them as people, you're looking at them as a stereotype, a statistic, and that's also wrong.

Also, I think people's talk of an inevitable level of minor racism in everyone is something of a defeatist attitude. I think it's entirely possible for people to overcome instincts - if indeed those instincts are universal, or natural, and can't be removed through early childhood education - to the point where they just don't exist anymore. It may not work for everyone, but it can work for some.

 

[Mikeyfell]

The way I see it is necessary to discriminate against people based on their personality.

It's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against someone because of their religion, job, or political affiliation because they choose those things.

It's borderline acceptable to discriminate based on physical appearance because, for the most part you can fix that if you're motivated enough. (for the most part I said, some people can't)

It's in bad taste to discriminate against someone because of their social class.

It's absolutely wrong to discriminate for race or sexual orientation

 

[Guffe]

Well he thinks the way he does and apparently you won't be able to change that.
The fact that is confusing me is he calls himself racists but has nothing against black people born in the States.
The thing that scares me is the quote you gave after he saw the movie.

 

[Suijen]

There's probably not much you can say that can change his mind. It's just his frame of mind, so I doubt any dialogue would really do anything. You'll have to accept him the way he is. Considering that he has had colored friends and lovers, I guess it shows that you can be racist and have colored friends.

 

[Scorekeeper]

It's not good to be racist but as long as one doesn't say or do anything that reflects on their prejudice toward a particular race, I don't see a problem. Racism's only a problem if it results in treating others unequally.

 

[scorptatious]

But this guy sounds like more than a "little bit" racist. My advice: never speak to him again.

Quoted for truth.

I am racist myself, but not in the way you think. My racism stems from the fact that around where I live there are very few people from other racial backgrounds. Because of this I find black people intimidating and am not sure how to interact with them.

well thats not racism, but rather bad experience. I bet you wouldnt feel intimidated, if you met a black person in a suit at a university right?

But its basically the same problem here in germany. Most turkish people one would meet act like complete asshats. Of course that doesnt mean turkish people are all asshats, but it would easily lead somebody to say "i dont like turkish people", just from what he or she experienced so far.
But since we all have a brain, we can separate those people from the "decent" ones.
For example by not starting a fight with those 5 black guys with their pants at their knees, but still hitting on the pretty black girl in the library. Just context.

edit:
oh and of course everyones a little racist, but thats how humans are(genetically speaking). Thats why we got rules in society, to tame our evilness.

Ooh and this too!

But yeah, it sounds like your friend isn't exactly the best kind of person to hang around with. To put it lightly.

As for people in my life who are racist? Well there's my dad who isn't too fond of black people. But it's mostly because he has had bad experiences with them in the past. He does know there are always exceptions though.

 

[Vandenberg1]

No, no, I didn't say that, but a good friend of mine did.

So, this friend watched American History X yesterday, a movie which tells about dangers of racism and what it can cause. Today he said something about the movie: "Best parts where those where niggers were killed"
I was shocked... I told him that the movie was supposed to be against racism. After that he said "Well I'm a racist and there is nothing wrong about being racist. I don't like black people"

Of course I started arguing against it, but he just got angry and said that being racist is his choise and I can't start whining about it to him.

But the thing is, he has had a black friend and he has been with one of my black friends. So I asked him "But wasn't she a nice girl?" (referring to my black friend). He responded "Yeah, but she wasn't foreigner", "So you dont like foreigner people?" "Yeah, but most of them are black", "So what about that chinese guy just 2 doors away from us?"(The friend is also my roommate), "Oh yeah, I dont like chinese people either"

I started arguing that you can't judge people just for their skin colour or where they come from, but I could see how he were getting angry so I stopped. He gets angry very easily and I don't want that to happen.

I don't know if I should punch him to the face, laugh at him or just cry because there really are people who think like that. Here you don't really meet any racist people. Yes we might say something racist but it's always said in a sarcastic way so we don't really mean it(Or atleast thats what I do). But my friend is serious...

So, do you have any racist friends and what do you think about them? Personally, I think I can't look at my friend the same way anymore...

I like black people, I like all cultures.. I HATEEEE GHETTOOOOOOO culture and people who fall into its stereotypes because itsthe supposed coolthing to do

 

[Rheinmetall]

How can you be friends with a person that you have disagreement in such a fundamental matter as racism?

 

[blindthrall]

No, no, I didn't say that, but a good friend of mine did.

So, this friend watched American History X yesterday, a movie which tells about dangers of racism and what it can cause. Today he said something about the movie: "Best parts where those where niggers were killed"
I was shocked... I told him that the movie was supposed to be against racism.

As much as people may say American History X is warning us not to be like those naughty skinheads, I think it's actually conveying a much more subtle message, opposite from what most people take away from it. Spoilers,btw. For most of the movie, racists are evil and ignorant, and it takes getting raped by white men and meeting a Magic Negro in prison for Norton to turn around. So he makes amends once released, including turning his little brother away from the path he went down. So far so good, but what happens when his little brother stops trying to intimidate a black bully and approaches him like a human being? He gets shot. Now you could say that this is Norton's punishment(wasn't that the assrape?) but it still has unfortunate implications: treat black threats as if they're a lower form of life, or you'll get shot.

As far as your friends concerned, telling him not to be racist will only enforce it, like telling teenagers don't do drugs. I think all humans are unconsciously predisposed to their own kind, and admitting that and coming to terms with it is the easiest way to ensure it doesn't influence your judgement.