"There is nothing wrong being racist"

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Robert Ewing

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Mar 2, 2011
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This sentiment would be true if nobody was generally offended by racist terms and stereotypes. Which may be true for some demographics and racial groups already, being white British, I sure don't get offended by any racist terms aimed at me! But people will always find a way to be offended at something. It's just the context that determines what you are offending them with is racist or not. If it isn't racism, it's always something else.
 

Jewrean

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Jun 27, 2010
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I agree with the friend to a certain degree. We are all racist at a certain level anyway even subconsciously people treat others differently if they are faced with the unknown. It is human nature.

The only thing that I disagree with is the right to act on those feelings by mistreating others (note: this includes making people who are different to you feel bad in any way).

The human brain likes to categorize things into groups and put labels on them to better understand the world. Unfortunately even though our brain does this it shouldn't because the world is rarely 'black and white' if you'll forgive the pun.

So long as the person does not act upon those feelings I do not care how they feel about others and neither should any of you.
 

Yuki_Seele

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Apr 14, 2011
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Why do people keed saying "were all racist a little bit" Thats fucking idiotic. Thats basicaly saying its fine to be that way? surely anyone should be disapointed with themselves even if they think the thoughts even if they don't act on them.
 

Rodney Jackson

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Oct 11, 2011
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Abandon4093 said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
Actually it does give a particular opinion of yours. That you think that it is okay to tolerate such a thing. And 'otherwise a decent human being' is pointless. Yes, if you ignore their bad characteristics people might appear to be decent human beings when they're not.
This is pretty much the exact response I expected from you.

Seems to me, it's an opinion made with very little real world experience on the issue.

There are plenty of reasons a person may hold racist views on other cultures etc without them being bad people. We all have our bad points and to condemn people on them without considering everything else they have to offer is incredibly narrow minded and just plain stupid.

It's not ignoring their bad characteristics. It's accepting them as part of who they are. If after that, the good still outweighs the bad. Then you're objectively wrong for writing them off as bad people.

A persons opinion on one thing is not the sum of their character. To say otherwise is to arrogantly and unjustly assume you have the right to judge another human on something as subjective as morality. Providing people don't act on their opinions, they're just that. And of no harm to anyone.

Is the view nice up on that pedestal?
So don't judge people for judging other people... ...got it.
 

Akimoto

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Nov 22, 2011
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I have Malay, Indian, Chinese and English friends. I'm racist.

But what makes me different is I am aware of it and I manage it. Yes, certain races do silly things and I'm not very proud of my own race either. But I will not use derogatory words and I adopt a "wait and see" attitude.

Let me suggest something - racism is not a problem, it's a natural attitude we all carry. In psychology it's also known as a schema (heuristics for those familiar with search engines and anti-virus) and it refers to a pattern we fall to immediately when meeting with another race. How we manage is, I believe, what sets us apart from those who act on and treat others unfairly. That's prejudice and that's wrong. For the lack of a better comparison, racism is kinda like branding between two companies i.e Acer and Dell.

I'm racist, I'm aware of it and I manage it in a way to ensure others are not hurt by 'wait and see'.

As for OP's friend, I think he was trying to show off. Racism is not based on foreign/local status, I'm very sure of that.
 

BanicRhys

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May 31, 2011
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Imo, there's nothing wrong with being racist. It's when you start showing it to people who might be offended that it becomes wrong.

Same goes for sexism, pedophilia, bronyism and all that other stuff. As long as you don't bother anyone with it, there's nothing wrong with it.
 

Rodney Jackson

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Oct 11, 2011
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Abandon4093 said:
Rodney Jackson said:
Abandon4093 said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
Actually it does give a particular opinion of yours. That you think that it is okay to tolerate such a thing. And 'otherwise a decent human being' is pointless. Yes, if you ignore their bad characteristics people might appear to be decent human beings when they're not.
This is pretty much the exact response I expected from you.

Seems to me, it's an opinion made with very little real world experience on the issue.

There are plenty of reasons a person may hold racist views on other cultures etc without them being bad people. We all have our bad points and to condemn people on them without considering everything else they have to offer is incredibly narrow minded and just plain stupid.

It's not ignoring their bad characteristics. It's accepting them as part of who they are. If after that, the good still outweighs the bad. Then you're objectively wrong for writing them off as bad people.

A persons opinion on one thing is not the sum of their character. To say otherwise is to arrogantly and unjustly assume you have the right to judge another human on something as subjective as morality. Providing people don't act on their opinions, they're just that. And of no harm to anyone.

Is the view nice up on that pedestal?
So don't judge people for judging other people... got it.
You know that trick people employ to de-validate a persons view. You know the one, where they reduce what the person said to such a state that it's not really what the person initially said, but more of an ineloquent and disingenuous satire of it.

Yea, fun that isn't it?
Well I think Mortai Gravesend placed it better than I could have -pertaining to how I feel about your views. So no need to copy what they said.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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Disown him as a friend. Religion I get. Difference in Politics I can get. But there's literally no reason for being racist.

He's telling about it being his choice? His choice is fucking stupid and you shouldn't be his friend. Someone who is so diluted and ignorant to things like this should be left to live alone.

Someone I know pulls something like that around me, I disown him. Luckily enough, I'm pretty sure the majority of my friends are pretty smart.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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BanicRhys said:
Imo, there's nothing wrong with being racist. It's when you start showing it to people who might be offended that it becomes wrong.

Same goes for sexism, pedophilia, bronyism and all that other stuff. As long as you don't bother anyone with it, there's nothing wrong with it.
There is something wrong with it, it just not an actual problem until you act on it.

Ignoring a key feature to someone's personality? Perhaps you can be fine with it, but it's stupid to say "Well, that's who I am, better get used to it".
 

Dagda Mor

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Jun 23, 2011
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Racism itself I can tolerate,so long as I don't have to listen to it for very long.However,being racist says certain things about this man's character that extend beyond the issue at hand.Just leave the guy and never look back.
 

Rodney Jackson

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Oct 11, 2011
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Abandon4093 said:
Shot in the dark here, but have you ever watched American History X?

Regardless of whether or not you have, your arguments seems oddly circular in how you attack him for making judgment calls whilst simultaneously making your own judgments. He's judging others for being tolerant of racism -blatant racism, and not your average personal prejudices-, but being racist or choosing to look past ones racism still involves the act of judging others to some capacity. Hence why I stick to my earlier claim. Call it the twisting of arguments if you will but I'm really not seeing any straw men at ploy here.

Now you got all snippy with me for trying to summarize your viewpoint which at the time was confusing to me, but I think the issue is that you are looking at this on a smaller threshold than what Mortai is. What you're describing are people's personal prejudices. And if that is truly the case that what you've been saying is 100% true. Those things are part of all of us and mostly can't be helped.

No need to get snotty about it.

But you must be extremely tone deaf to not see what is at fault with the OP's friend's statements. I can only assume you're exercising your best empathy and therefore don't want to toss the guy under the bus. Good for you. And for all we know this may not be as bad as it sounds. But with what were given, I don't think many others would agree.
 

DarkTenka

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Apr 7, 2010
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The only big problem I have is with language barriers. When a foreigner cant speak my language and sits there straining to form a sentance for me I start to go a little nuts. Especially Indian people, their horrible accent is like glass on a chalkboard.

Don't get me wrong I will try my hardest to be patient, and I wouldnt try to bring harm to anyone. But if I had the choice/ability to avoid someone like that I would.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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If there was nothing wrong with being racist, then why do we, as a society, pretty much universally condemn it.

Anyone who judges anyone or thinks less of someone because of their skin colour is ignorant at best and dangerous at worst.
 

Rodney Jackson

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Oct 11, 2011
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Abandon4093 said:
Rodney Jackson said:
Abandon4093 said:
snippy/quote]

Yes I've seen the film. And it's one of my favourites.

And not really. Making a judgement about someone is fine. It's when people take one aspect of a person and then condemn them totally for it. And not just them, their friends aswell apparently. Because that's all Mortai thought he needed to completely write a person off as disgusting. Not even the person holding the views, but peoples willingness to still accept them as a friend afterwards.

All I have said is that you need to judge people by all their parts, not just one aspect of them. A person holding racist views is not necessarily a bad person. They may simply be ignorant of somethings, or for one reason or another set in their ways.

That's not to say you should accept what they're saying. Just that it may not reflect them as a complete person.
I think you and me at least are approaching a consensus :)

I make a distinction between prejudice and racism because the conversation can get muddled over the semantics over it all. I see Prejudice as being unfortunate, but natural and most of the time forgivable. Racism can be inflammatory or harmful, and should only be tolerated so far as to letting the party see error of their ways (if only for a quick and dirty definition).

People are more than just a single part. Basing everything on someone's worse traits can definitely be the mark of ignorance. Right there is where I agree with you.

Speaking personally I feel the language used by the OP's friend crosses the line between personal prejudices and racism, but it could very well just be his stupidity showing. If you feel that the OP shouldn't ditch him, or if place in that type of situation you wouldn't ditch him, then that's your prerogative. I wouldn't however, at least not if he was incapable of acknowledging how obtuse he was behaving. So on that issue I think best to agree to disagree.
 

Talshere

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Jan 27, 2010
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ms_sunlight said:
I think everyone who posts on the internet about race should say what race they are first, if only because it would make it absolutely bloody obvious why it is that some people don't think racism is that bad, or that it's a "thing" anymore. (Hint: if you don't notice racism or think it's that bad, you've probably not spent much time on the receiving end of it.)

I'm white, but I'm also not stupid, wilfully ignorant or blind.

While I would never agrue that racism doesnt occur, the minoritys who are "discriminated" against do not help their own case... THEY help perpetuate the problem as much as ignorant white people.

I will illustrate.

I used to work in a corner shop owned by an Indian family. They are mixture of British Indian and true Indian (I'm British btw :p). My brother worked there before me and my sister after me. Over year we became very good friends. During a frank discussion with oldest daughter who is what, 18 now (she was 11 or 12 when I first me her and this was some time ago now)? we got her to state her views on racism after she made a particularly scathing comment about "pakkies", we told her her it was racist to which she responded, and I shit you not this is verbatim, "Its cant be racist, only white people can be racist". Well where I grew up (where she was living at the time) is a predominantly publicly white community with a large up not really visible Chinese community...So she sure as hell didnt get that view from round me. The only place she COULD have got it is from her family, which means this is a pervading viewpoint within that section of society.

Another example, my sister had a massive set to with a member of her social group at school, they wernt really friend just part the same group. She saw a golliwog in a charityshop window. For those of you who dont know, back in my childhood there was a program called Noddy, there were a group, I loosly call them people who lived to cause mischife. They were called golliwogs. (this is a pic of the toys http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Golliwoggs_on_sale_2008.jpg/450px-Golliwoggs_on_sale_2008.jpg)

They have since been change ascetically slightly and are called gremlins or troll or something now. Anyway, my sister saw won of these dolls and in a fit of nostalgia said "OOO Its a golliwog its so cute, I want one" or something along those line. This guy, who was black, immediately turned around, called her a racist to her face and threatened to punch her if she didnt apologise immediately. To illustrate...I had to ask my mum, at the age of 19, why the guy had got so angry and was informed it used to be used as a racial slur.

Both of these responses are quite frankly DISGUSTING and racist in the worst kind because they didnt even REALISE they were being horrifically racist. If they refuse to stop seeing innocent comments as racist how can we EVER possibly stop racism? Its ALL we ever think about. Im happy to admit that racism is not extinct, but what I want OTHER people to realise is THIS IS NOT A ONE WAY PROBLEM!

Ethnic groups themselves perpetuate this problem by the refusal to see racism as something THEY can do and that something wanting a cute golliwog toy is JUST THAT. Sometimes, when you get turned down for a job and a white Cambridge upper middle class wanker get it ITS BECAUSE HIS GRADES AND INTERVIEW TECHNIQUE ARE BETTER! NOT BECAUSE THE UNI HATE BLACK PEOPLE! Sometimes that drunk guy that punch you did so cos your drunk to and he things your being an ass...NOT COS YOUR BLACK!


This is a constant sticking point for me. In the UK at least in some areas, Im genuinely starting to believe that white people are actually the victims of the most racism because there are lobbyist group everywhere looking out and protecting the interests of ethnic minorities in order to stop discrimination, but none for the ethnic majority, white Christians. I even submit that this very point in and of itself is discrimination.
 

Smiley Face

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I think that, in some situations, it's possible and not a problem to be friends with someone with whom you might otherwise have differences. I have some friends who have beliefs I disagree with, and do things I disagree with - but they're not part of our friendship because they know I have a problem with that stuff and they keep it far away from me - it doesn't enter into our friendship, and as such, our friendship is the same.

The problem is that your friend has now made his racism a part of your friendship, and you need to decide how to deal with it. I think I agree with the idea that to not say anything would be wrong - you need to object to him, and have the conversation. If it somehow resolves itself to a point where the issue comes to rest, as long as it never, ever rears its head again, and you're comfortable with maintaining your friendship, I don't see why your friendship shouldn't be able to continue.

With that said, I don't know anyone who's a racist, at least on the level being described here. Maybe some people have minor, minor prejudices based on their upbringing or whatever, but they're aware of them, don't act on them, and try to change them - and as long as they're trying to change it, I don't see how it's their fault any more than a mental disorder of some sort. I don't think I've ever met someone who's that racist, and as such, I really can't say whether it's possible to resolve issues with an unrepentant racist - I've just, to my knowledge, never met one.

What I DO disagree with is the notion being flung around that someone's being racist entirely invalidates every other good quality about them. Yes, it's a bad quality. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, it's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, and deserving of re-education. But it doesn't invalidate their value as a person. For thousands of years, people have been racists, and still done great and good things. They were bad in their racism, but good in their other aspects, and the one does not invalidate the other. To denounce all racists as irredeemably evil monsters strikes me as hilariously, and darkly, hypocritical; you're not looking at them as people, you're looking at them as a stereotype, a statistic, and that's also wrong.

Also, I think people's talk of an inevitable level of minor racism in everyone is something of a defeatist attitude. I think it's entirely possible for people to overcome instincts - if indeed those instincts are universal, or natural, and can't be removed through early childhood education - to the point where they just don't exist anymore. It may not work for everyone, but it can work for some.
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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The way I see it is necessary to discriminate against people based on their personality.

It's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against someone because of their religion, job, or political affiliation because they choose those things.

It's borderline acceptable to discriminate based on physical appearance because, for the most part you can fix that if you're motivated enough. (for the most part I said, some people can't)

It's in bad taste to discriminate against someone because of their social class.

It's absolutely wrong to discriminate for race or sexual orientation
 

Guffe

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Jul 12, 2009
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Well he thinks the way he does and apparently you won't be able to change that.
The fact that is confusing me is he calls himself racists but has nothing against black people born in the States.
The thing that scares me is the quote you gave after he saw the movie.