They are trying to cancel Dave Chappell

[Dwarvenhobble]

Twitch has a new Hot Girls in Hot Tubs Meta now

And apparently it has started some debate online and i wonder what the forum thinks. https://kotaku.com/twitchs-hot-tub-meta-has-sparked-off-yet-another-debate-1846600932 Personally I think this sort of streaming doesn't really belong on Twitch, because it's entire purpose is to stare at a girl...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

Fuck it, I have no interest in being the bigger man.

And you know what happened?
Twitch moved it to it's own category and it fucking died.
You know why it died?
Because it was reliant on connecting to other big categories to actually sustain itself and turns out it wasn't what people actually were going to Twitch for it was just the same kind of thing that happened back in the day with the youtube "Reply girls".

"Oh but people objected to the content"

Yes because people wanted a cook book and the book they got had 1 recipie then 80 pages rambling about how there's a conspiracy about werewolves who secretly control the world as part of the New Wolf Order.

To relate it back to the thread. no-one was going to Dave Chappelle's special expecting nothing but puns and fart jokes. It would be like watching Billy Connolly and him not to swear.

How do you "storm" a high level executive Zoom meeting that they provided a link for you to join? And the person who allegedly leaked that corporate information is on record saying "don't leak shit", so I'm not taking Netflix's word on that

I know that I laugh at the ineffectiveness of gamer boycotts, but is boycotting not allowed anymore? Is it "cancelling"?

You want to Boycott Netflix go right ahead. I've been doing it for years (I stand by the idea royalties are important and I won't support Netflix as long as they refuse to offer royalties to creators)

Next Gamer boycotts don't destroy the world but they apparently do enough to get companies to take some action.

It's not a boycott in this case. It's not people going "Don't watch Dave Chappelle's special" it's people calling for punitive action over it and staff saying unless action is taken they won't do their jobs or will actively try to harm Netflix. That's not a boycott. That's not customers speaking. The only thing being boycott here is sanity for and rational thought in favour of petty feel good knee jerk reactions.

​

So you're saying they're not capable of understanding their own actions?

Or they were forced at gunpoint into those actions?

No?

Then technically they chose the actions know the specific likely stated in company policy repercussions for said actions.

You know what?

This is fair. I think that instead of a tantrum-esque outburst, people started and online movement unsubbing from Netflix over something the site decides to host i think that would be just fine because you are taking personal action against the thing you dislike.

For example all the people that went to protest outside of Netflix's office, how many do you think canceled their sub? We spoke about people being fired but how many people quit? After all if you are truly against what the company you work for is doing, surely you shouldnt even want to continue working there.

Much in the same way we talk about video games. The best way to make change is to vote with your wallet. Dont buy the game, dont sub to the service, dont buy the microtransactions. And that is a stance that you get to hold on a personal level. You hold yourself accountable to your own standards without necessarily expecting the business entity to cater specifically to you.

Again i think outcry is fine, showing that you refuse to support a company based on certain actions is fine. I think the line has to be drawn somewhere and to me that line is demanding the world cater to your morality specifically.

But remember if you #cancelDisneyPlus over then firing Gina Carano over spurious allegations against her then you as a customer are literally trying to cancel the Disney corporation........ or so the narrative went lol

Ironically, whenever I do I'm told I'm stifling free speech or something equally absurd. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Yes, by your own side lol

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

THAT'S WHAT A BOYCOTT IS. You're "drawing the line" at a boycott. And demanding people quit their job and lose their income or "they don't really care" instead of trying to make change on the inside

The irony is in this case it's people objecting to others having the same freedom they enjoy. Dave Chappelle can tell jokes that offend people and they get to make content others find objectionable too. They want to be free of proverbial cages but are objecting that others they don't like are also free of cages too and allowed to go about just the same as them.

If they truly believe Netflix is so harmful and bad they move to another network. If they truly believe Netflix is doing wrong then they're free to start up pink network the safe space streaming service and before anyone starts about costs and other stuff, there are plenty of other independent streaming service offerings out there and you don't even truly need to do much anymore for video hosting services as the Escapist and other site use special hosting service to deliver their content from the site itself. Or do youtube and crowdfund it. If there's such a desire it wouldn't be too hard to do so and people have got plenty of stuff funded like the Feminist deck of playing cards (till not delivered BTW) or the Chuck Tingle game (Also still not delivered).

 

[CriticalGaming]

And demanding people quit their job and lose their income or "they don't really care" instead of trying to make change on the inside

Would an animal rights activist work at a meat packing plant? Something tells me that they'd not let themselves do that under any circumstances.

When a company doesn't stand up to your morals you have to make the decision for yourself as to what's more important to you. Your job or your morals. There are other jobs, and with the job market right now it is open season to get work. So I don't think that leaving Netflix would be catastrophic for someone's livlihood. And besides you don't have to quit the job out of the blue, you can look for another position while still working there for the paycheck and once you find a suitable out, you bounce. I'm not saying be impulsive, you can leave on your terms and keep your standards.

Boycotts are nothing but grandstanding. They rarely successful without great violence (for example America's boycott of British taxation which led to the war for independance in which we won). Remember when the comsumer activists tried to boycot Black Friday in the 90's? It fail miserably obvously.

The best practice is to make individual choices, support what you want, and don't support what you dislike. At the same time, that is a INDIVIDUAL choice and you shouldn't make demands on behalf of other people (generally speaking). When sometime is truly amiss people do tend to notice and rally against en masse.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think plenty of people in this thread are saying differently.

See, boycotts aren't just "not buying thing because I don't like it". Boycotts are "refusing to buy thing until changes are made". You know, refusing to use a service until some objectionable thing gets removed, some other things gets added, etc. Like, say, if a popular streaming service that you generally liked started hosting some content that you very much didn't.

I'm 100% ok with that. Boycott away!

 

[Trunkage]

The irony is in this case it's people objecting to others having the same freedom they enjoy. Dave Chappelle can tell jokes that offend people and they get to make content others find objectionable too. They want to be free of proverbial cages but are objecting that others they don't like are also free of cages too and allowed to go about just the same as them.

If they truly believe Netflix is so harmful and bad they move to another network. If they truly believe Netflix is doing wrong then they're free to start up pink network the safe space streaming service and before anyone starts about costs and other stuff, there are plenty of other independent streaming service offerings out there and you don't even truly need to do much anymore for video hosting services as the Escapist and other site use special hosting service to deliver their content from the site itself. Or do youtube and crowdfund it. If there's such a desire it wouldn't be too hard to do so and people have got plenty of stuff funded like the Feminist deck of playing cards (till not delivered BTW) or the Chuck Tingle game (Also still not delivered).

So, to some up... banned from making demands from employers

The irony is Chappelle has now done more to cancel a bunch of people than anyone can do back to him

Also, bullies are cool and should be protected. The irony is that most people like Dave started the cancelling and then complain when they get treated the same

 

[Buyetyen]

Would an animal rights activist work at a meat packing plant? Something tells me that they'd not let themselves do that under any circumstances.

For your argument here to work, Netflix would have to have started anti-trans, thus broadcasting to any and all potential queer employees that they will not be valued equally with their colleagues. Granted, we now know that is the case. But I can understand people who took the job because they genuinely enjoy working in the film and TV industry and are now pissed off that the company is publishing material attacking them. I can also understand them not wanting to leave if they think they can do something about it from the inside. And then of course there are going to be people who will be completely cowed by the company's fuckery and the outpouring of support it's getting from people who also think it's okay to be a bigot.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So, to some up... banned from making demands from employers

Not what I said.

There's a big difference between a reasonable demand and an unreasonable one. Especially in regards to the corporate policies etc. It's unreasonable to be a hardcore Vegan working at KFC yelling that KFC is violating your rights by anyone anywhere in the company cooking chicken or products containing animal material. It's reasonable to argue against policies that seem to go against corporate stances or impact all employees. It's not reasonable to argue for applying restrictions to other employees you dislike.

The irony is Chappelle has now done more to cancel a bunch of people than anyone can do back to him

So how is Chappelle to blame for people taking actions of their own volition again? Seem quite infantilising to suggest said people were incapable of making said decisions knowing the possible consequences etc. Chappelle didn't force them to take those actions they chose to take them.

Also, bullies are cool and should be protected. The irony is that most people like Dave started the cancelling and then complain when they get treated the same

There's a reason the term crybully came into use and it's not people like Chappelle deploying said tactics. See for example the Netflix employee in the video I posted earlier who destroys Vito's sign then tried to frame Vito as a threat coming in with a weapon because he's still holding the piece of wood his sign was attached to. It's attacking some-one then framing their actions as bullying. Like the people who attacked Daphne and Dave considers contributed to her suicide who are now crying about being attacked and being in mortal danger over it.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

For your argument here to work, Netflix would have to have started anti-trans, thus broadcasting to any and all potential queer employees that they will not be valued equally with their colleagues. Granted, we now know that is the case. But I can understand people who took the job because they genuinely enjoy working in the film and TV industry and are now pissed off that the company is publishing material attacking them. I can also understand them not wanting to leave if they think they can do something about it from the inside. And then of course there are going to be people who will be completely cowed by the company's fuckery and the outpouring of support it's getting from people who also think it's okay to be a bigot.

Netflix started as a DVD rental service by post that supplied films to those who wanted them and didn't restrict content. It then got into making it's own service and content and again went with the same idea of artistic freedom in it's own content. Some of those yelling and campaigning don't want people to have that freedom now because it could be used to offend them. They want the company to specifically give their ideals priority which isn't what Netflix is.

I find it hilarious you're pretending Netflix is Anti-Trans......... Netflix who literally bought media relating to Trans people that no other network would touch. Oh no people are realising the massive corporation isn't their friend and is going to create a range of content......This would be like people complaining HBO made "such and awful violent series as Game of Thrones"

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I did, and that's why I said what I said, because there is more to not being offended than simply stating it. Your argument sounds like the ones you're arguing against, but the nouns have been Mad-Libbed around for your own argument. I mean, look at your post: you are trying to argue that people shouldn't be offended because they are just jokes and words only have as much power as we give them, and then in the next breath try and say that people having negative reactions online will lead to harm. The last bit is almost verbatim what everyone is saying about these jokes.

I didn't say that negative reactions online will lead to harm. I said cancelling the special, getting it removed from Netflix, will lead to harm. Normal criticism, I have no issue with. If you like the special, cool; if you don't like the special, cool . And all can talk about the special as much or little as they like. If enough people don't like it, guess what, there won't be a next special because there's no audience for it then. That's the normal flow of what content gets on Netflix or whatever platform. It's like wanting to ban pizza places from putting pineapples on pizza because you think that is blasphemous, you're denying those that like pineapple on their pizza from having pineapple on their pizza; and if enough people don't like pineapples on their pizza, it will cease being a topping option then.

I know that I laugh at the ineffectiveness of gamer boycotts, but is boycotting not allowed anymore? Is it "cancelling"?

If trans people just decided to boycott and not watch the special, this wouldn't even be a thread or discussion right now. You don't have to consume anything you don't want to; however, stopping others from doing it is the problem. I can "boycott" Apple simply because I find pears to be superior apples (maybe I think the Apple name propagates pear discrimination like why I can't get a pear pie at the grocery store) or boycott them because their stance on right-to-repair or boycott them because I find their products to be overpriced. Any and all of those reasons are valid reasons to not buy Apple products.

 

[Kwak]

You don't have to consume anything you don't want to; however, stopping others from doing it is the problem.

Raw milk for everyone!

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If trans people just decided to boycott and not watch the special, this wouldn't even be a thread or discussion right now. You don't have to consume anything you don't want to; however, stopping others from doing it is the problem. I can "boycott" Apple simply because I find pears to be superior apples (maybe I think the Apple name propagates pear discrimination like why I can't get a pear pie at the grocery store) or boycott them because their stance on right-to-repair or boycott them because I find their products to be overpriced. Any and all of those reasons are valid reasons to not buy Apple products.

Boycotts are specifically a punitive action, usually with a conditional end. Not buying something because you don't like it is not a boycott. Why's boycotting Chapelle's special fine but boycotting Netflix over Chapelle's special "cancelling"?

 

[Trunkage]

There's a reason the term crybully came into use and it's not people like Chappelle deploying said tactics. See for example the Netflix employee in the video I posted earlier who destroys Vito's sign then tried to frame Vito as a threat coming in with a weapon because he's still holding the piece of wood his sign was attached to. It's attacking some-one then framing their actions as bullying.

Wait, wait, wait.... what?

You're AGAINST crybullies? Since when?

Here's how these cancelling things go:
Step 1) Some person deliberately goes out of their way to insults someone
Step 2) Backlash
Step 3) The first person calls the other group cancellers.

I know that Chapelle replied, but I haven't bothered checking it out. So he might not have done step 3. But this is the process for 90% of cancelling. And now you saying those first people, who are crybullies, are bad?

Edit: I was going to say Step 4) Profit. Because there is clearly some people doing this to make a buck (eg. Bari Wiess.) But am conscious that this is a stupid plan if you follow Jordan Peterson story of self destruction

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Wait, wait, wait.... what?

You're AGAINST crybullies? Since when?

Here's how these cancelling things go:
Step 1) Some person deliberately goes out of their way to insults someone
Step 2) Backlash
Step 3) The first person calls the other group cancellers.

I know that Chapelle replied, but I haven't bothered checking it out. So he might not have done step 3. But this is the process for 90% of cancelling. And now you saying those first people, who are crybullies, are bad?

Edit: I was going to say Step 4) Profit. Because there is clearly some people doing this to make a buck (eg. Bari Wiess.) But am conscious that this is a stupid plan if you follow Jordan Peterson story of self destruction

In this case.
Dave Chappelle did a show where he had a Trans comedian open for him.
She then sat in the audience
Due to her interacting with him while he was doing his set he did a bit of back and fourth with her.
After the show he offered to help coach her
His special Sticks and Stones comes out and people got offended by some of his jokes an the story about the show with Daphne comes out.
People get mad at Dave for the jokes on Daphne's behalf
Daphne tweets out in defence of Dave.
The offended people go after Daphne upset she isn't herself offended
Daphne kills herself not long after this.
Dave does his new special telling the story and blaming social media activists for her death.
Social media activist cry that they're oppressed after dog piling a trans woman for not agreeing with then and jumping on the bandwagon to try and cancel Dave Chappelle for hurting their feelings.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Raw milk for everyone!

Why not "Raw water" was a craze in San Fran for a while.

 

[Trunkage]

In this case.
Dave Chappelle did a show where he had a Trans comedian open for him.
She then sat in the audience
Due to her interacting with him while he was doing his set he did a bit of back and fourth with her.
After the show he offered to help coach her
His special Sticks and Stones comes out and people got offended by some of his jokes an the story about the show with Daphne comes out.
People get mad at Dave for the jokes on Daphne's behalf
Daphne tweets out in defence of Dave.
The offended people go after Daphne upset she isn't herself offended
Daphne kills herself not long after this.
Dave does his new special telling the story and blaming social media activists for her death.
Social media activist cry that they're oppressed after dog piling a trans woman for not agreeing with then and jumping on the bandwagon to try and cancel Dave Chappelle for hurting their feelings.

So, you're just ignoring what I said. None of this stops Dave from being a potential crybully. It just makes other people awful. Again I have to say this... two wrongs don't make a right

After all the conversation I've had with you, that doesn't suprise me

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Boycotts are specifically a punitive action, usually with a conditional end. Not buying something because you don't like it is not a boycott. Why's boycotting Chapelle's special fine but boycotting Netflix over Chapelle's special "cancelling"?

Generally you do them to show how much of the audience you are as part of an objection to a change. In the case of a service like Netflix I don't think it works so well because it's going "We should be the audience you care for most and ignore those who do want to watch the specials." which doesn't do too well on a service trying to attract a large diverse demographic. It's people wanting a proverbial safe space streaming service just for them or worse a service that is bland as possible and caters to no real groups at all because they want to make the most safe content that anyone can watch and will offend no-one but please no-one either really.

The Boycott wasn't "We're not the audience for this you changed the thing and we object to it" the boycott of Netflix is "We want you to only do what we want all the time and specifically focus and cater to just us". It's the same kind of attitude as people who got mad at the CW because the Winchester brothers didn't have gay incestuous sex with one another in the final season of Supernatural.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So, you're just ignoring what I said. None of this stops Dave from being a potential crybully. It just makes other people awful. Again I have to say this... two wrongs don't make a right

After all the conversation I've had with you, that doesn't suprise me

Who did Dave specifically go out of his way to attack and offend?
Offence in this case was taken by people who chose to engage with his content.

 

[Trunkage]

Who did Dave specifically go out of his way to attack and offend?
Offence in this case was taken by people who chose to engage with his content.

Yah what?

Is this like the time when you pretended your Suicide Squad comics weren't full of propoganda? From a week ago? Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can tell, because you complain when that propoganda DOESN'T met what you like, like during that same conversation

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yah what?

Is this like the time when you pretended your Suicide Squad comics weren't full of propoganda? From a week ago? Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can tell, because you complain when that propoganda DOESN'T met what you like, like during that same conversation

Ok so you're saying new She-Ra should have changed to give her back a version of her old costume and not gone down the fanfiction esc route it did?

What should I be offended because I went into the Welsh nationalist bar and they were all bad mouthing the English?

Just because I don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist can every much be turned back round in this case to say "Just because people who are offended by Dave Chappelle's jokes don't see how silly they seem doesn't mean they're not being hilariously silly because again it's content they chose to engage with and are now offended people can choose to engage with content they don't personally agree with"

I don't even know what you're about with Suicide Squad being propaganda. You'd need to be far more specific there, Are we talking original, New 52, New or Rebirth. Cause News 52 so far as I am in is all over the place.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

snip

So first off I want to say thanks. I do genuinely appreciate it, as I like to (hopefully) bring a little joy or even a chuckle to everyone's day. However, I will not engage with anything else here (it was why I was so snippy) and that is because, frankly, I find the entire idea behind it fucking awful. Absolutely abhorrent and disgusting, and that is this idea of 'misery olympics': how we don't have to give a shit, because it's not a 'big enough' problem. I don't normally like playing cards like these, but I was born and raised as a Catholic, and this twisting of empathy into some sort of transactional thing is just...fucked. 'I'm sorry, you must be this oppressed for me to care', 'You need to hit your quota of 500 murders before we take action, sorry try again next year'. Fuck. That. Shit. You brought up Daphne, but do you even remember what she said? "You don't have to understand me. Just know that what I am going through is real and human.".