Things You Can't Prove, But Believe

keinechance

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Mar 12, 2010
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Captain Pirate said:
keinechance said:
Humans - Chimpanzees -> 96% identical genes.

Humans - Mice -> 80% identical genes.

As for "unique" behavior:

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Human_and_ape_behavior

http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/primates.html
Well obviously.
But do those animals speak multiple languages, or have cars?
Do they do art, or science?
No, and that's my point. We're so different in other ways than genes and common behaviour.
Do you have retractable claws?

Can you fly on your own power?

Can you carry 7 times your own weight?

Animals are so far advanced over us, that I don't believe...
 

The Funslinger

Corporate Splooge
Sep 12, 2010
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Whateveralot said:
My existence.

I THINK that I'm here, but is that really the case?

Life gets wierd, when you think about it..
It may lead to circular argument, but you have you considered "cogito ergo sum"?

I think, therefore I am. Let's say you take it as read that nothing has been proven. Take all "confirmed" knowledge off the table, and see what you can put back on. This becomes intensely difficult.

You realize one cannot even prove their own existence. However, it could be reasoned that for there to be a questioning of this existence, if there is to be doubt, there must be something to doubt existence. This is you, and therefore you exist.

As I said, it leads to a bit of a solipsism, but it's a good base point for confirmation of existence.
 

Captain Pirate

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keinechance said:
Captain Pirate said:
Well obviously.
But do those animals speak multiple languages, or have cars?
Do they do art, or science?
No, and that's my point. We're so different in other ways than genes and common behaviour.
Do you have retractable claws?

Can you fly on your own power?

Can you carry 7 times your own weight?

Animals are so far advanced over us, that I don't believe...
Having a natural survival ability is, in my opinion, totally different than being able to do all the things we do, just for the sake of it.
Animals can fly, swim, all sorts of wondrous things to defend themselves, but that's a part of their natural survival.

Art, science, philosophy, entertainment, are totally unnecessary for our survival, but we have them anyway.

Even with your argument that animals are more advanced than us, that still backs up my belief in some kind of creator/god due to how naturally incredible they are.
 

Ranorak

Tamer of the Coffee mug!
Feb 17, 2010
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Dice totally have memory.
If I rolled good on that dice, it won't roll well the next time...probably.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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I believe in three assumptions.

I believe the universe exists.
I believe we can learn something about reality.
I believe models with predictive capability are better than models without predictive capability.

Believing in these 3 things is how we got that science stuff figured out. Science has to work within these 3 assumptions. Otherwise it isn't science.
 
May 28, 2009
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loa said:
-Violent games don't make you violent. Seeing an action does not inform it.
This applies not only to violence, of course.
Again, hard to argue against for the lack of "proof".
Ain't no magic word out there explaining it all but you just know it's true. I hope.
Interestingly enough, when I went to watch the Avengers film, one of the people I was with upon leaving the cinema asked if, after watching the film, anyone else felt like just punching something. As the only one of the group who played a lot of violent video games (indeed, as far as I could tell, any), I had no inclination to do so and was furthermore surprised that anyone else would.

So yes, if anything the argument should be over how influential external factors are to the individual, in comparison to said individual's internal make-up. Of course, having something physical to blame is so much easier in the end.
 

keinechance

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Elmoth said:
keinechance said:
Captain Pirate said:
keinechance said:
Humans - Chimpanzees -> 96% identical genes.

Humans - Mice -> 80% identical genes.

As for "unique" behavior:

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Human_and_ape_behavior

http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/primates.html
Well obviously.
But do those animals speak multiple languages, or have cars?
Do they do art, or science?
No, and that's my point. We're so different in other ways than genes and common behaviour.
Do you have retractable claws?

Can you fly on your own power?

Can you carry 7 times your own weight?

Animals are so far advanced over us, that I don't believe...
Can any such animal take control of the planet? Have they made as much progress as we have over the past 2000+ years? What, besides survival, have they achieved exactly?

Though I believe mankind is far from the chosen unique people a lot seem to think it is, there is no harm in being proud of ourselves.
The earliest trace fossils of Bacteria on earth come from old exposed stromatalite reefs in north Western Australia. These have been dated at around 3.7 billion years old.

Thanks to genome sequencing, it is estimated that chimps and humans diverged from their common ancestor about 6 million years ago.

If humanity survives that long, you can talk about "controlling" the planet.

There is no harm in being proud of ourselves, but there is harm in believing that our recent success will ensure that it stayes that way.
 

keinechance

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Mar 12, 2010
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Captain Pirate said:
keinechance said:
Captain Pirate said:
Well obviously.
But do those animals speak multiple languages, or have cars?
Do they do art, or science?
No, and that's my point. We're so different in other ways than genes and common behaviour.
Do you have retractable claws?

Can you fly on your own power?

Can you carry 7 times your own weight?

Animals are so far advanced over us, that I don't believe...
Having a natural survival ability is, in my opinion, totally different than being able to do all the things we do, just for the sake of it.
Animals can fly, swim, all sorts of wondrous things to defend themselves, but that's a part of their natural survival.

Art, science, philosophy, entertainment, are totally unnecessary for our survival, but we have them anyway.

Even with your argument that animals are more advanced than us, that still backs up my belief in some kind of creator/god due to how naturally incredible they are.
So now it's no longer us humans that are incredible, but all living beings that are incredible?
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
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loa said:
-Violent games don't make you violent. Seeing an action does not inform it.
This applies not only to violence, of course.
Again, hard to argue against for the lack of "proof".
Ain't no magic word out there explaining it all but you just know it's true. I hope.
Isn't the proof for violence in video games not effecting violence in real life the lack of evidence for the opposite thing?

I think so.
 

Captain Pirate

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Nov 18, 2009
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keinechance said:
Captain Pirate said:
keinechance said:
Captain Pirate said:
Well obviously.
But do those animals speak multiple languages, or have cars?
Do they do art, or science?
No, and that's my point. We're so different in other ways than genes and common behaviour.
Do you have retractable claws?

Can you fly on your own power?

Can you carry 7 times your own weight?

Animals are so far advanced over us, that I don't believe...
Having a natural survival ability is, in my opinion, totally different than being able to do all the things we do, just for the sake of it.
Animals can fly, swim, all sorts of wondrous things to defend themselves, but that's a part of their natural survival.

Art, science, philosophy, entertainment, are totally unnecessary for our survival, but we have them anyway.

Even with your argument that animals are more advanced than us, that still backs up my belief in some kind of creator/god due to how naturally incredible they are.
So now it's no longer us humans that are incredible, but all living beings that are incredible?
Well, I never said other things weren't. I just said humans are my prime example.
This whole planet is incredible in my opinion.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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Consciousness.

This is by far the worst one.

I know I'm experiencing something, but I can't prove it at all.

Furthermore, while I know i am experiencing something (it's a fact for me personally), that anyone else on the planet is also experiencing something is conjecture, inference and speculation.

I can't prove it, and nor do I have any way of knowing it other than assuming it to be true because the rest of you bear some physical resemblance to the thing I experience as being my own body.

Aren't the implications of the weakest form of Solipsism great? XD

I've seen a lot of people reject a philosophy out of hand if it resembles Solipsism, but the justification for that seems to be that if you accept a position based around Solipsism it becomes completely impossible to determine if anything really exists or not at all.

Thus, you run into a bit of a practical problem using it as a foundation for anything else.
 

Tiger Sora

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Wire Gnomes. My own theory on why wires tangle up. Maybe not gnomes, but something.
I know it's not real, but I choose to believe in my own creation.
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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Nothing.

Generally speaking I don't believe in things that don't have any kind of backing. Why would I believe them then? Seems illogical.
 

Relish in Chaos

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-I'm kind of a solipsist.
-God or any gods don't exist, and anyone who believes in God or a god are insane.
-Religion is fucking stupid and inherently harmful to anyone associated with it.
-Existence itself doesn't exist.
-There's no design to the universe, as existence itself is entirely random. If there is a design, it's a pretty abstract, arbitrary one.
-Good and evil doesn't exist, and morality is merely a societal construct.
-Karma doesn't exist, because you can try to be a fucking saint throughout your life and bad things still screw you over in life at every turn.
-However, reincarnation is a possibility, but not in the religious soul sense. I guess it's just like seeing things from a different perspective. Someone's gotta be that new baby, look through the eyes of it, or something like that.
-I have bad luck. I can't be bothered to explain why, and it's much more complex than you think.
-All sexuality is natural, and there's a very small minority of people that are 100% heterosexual.
-Almost all politicians are corrupt.
-Aliens exist.
-Time travel doesn?t and never will exist, because neither the past nor the future necessarily exists since the past has been and gone, while the future hasn?t even happened yet. If someone had travelled back in time to kill Hitler or something, we?d know about it, but no sign of anything like that.
-Humanity will eventually destroy itself, whether it be through global warming, resources running out, over-population or, heck, even the rise of the machines.
-I don?t entirely trust statistics, and believe that exams are stupid because you can?t reduce the sum of a person?s intelligence in one subject into one restricted little number or grade, in a one-time set of circumstances that can affect people in different ways (e.g. stress).
 

Haagrum

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May 3, 2010
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That stupid people have increasingly greater influence in the world, on the grounds that their vote is as valuable as anyone else's, that they are breeding more rapidly than people who spend a few years getting educated and working hard towards career-related goals, and that they are less likely to critically evaluate information rather than simply parrot it as truth.

Exhibit A: Glenn Beck being popular (at least, for a while).
Exhibit B: Rush Limbaugh still having listeners.
Exhibit C: The "national conversation" about the carbon pricing mechanism and the "Election Now!" slogans here in Australia.