Things you like that have..."questionable" messages

[Silvanus]

Foundation - We are an advanced scientific foundation tasked with bringing order, science, and civilisation back to the entire galaxy. You ask if we practice critical thinking? Nah, we rely on this old dead guy who doesn't feel the need to explain himself *at all*, and whose work is completely unverifiable.

Some of the later books deal with the Foundation's nearly-blind trust and reliance on the Seldon Plan, and undermine it somewhat.

Spoiler: Spoilers for 'Foundation and Empire', 'Second Foundation', and 'Foundation's Edge'

In 'Foundation and Empire', as a massive crisis threatens the Foundation, the Foundationers gather around Seldon's projector, awaiting the scheduled projection to guide them... only to find that Seldon's recording bears almost no resemblance to reality. History has significantly diverged. The Foundationers panic, forced to truly rely on themselves for the first time.

Later on, as the series details the Second Foundation, it shows how the Second Foundationers treat Seldon's work as a basis, but build and alter it significantly, and alter eachother's alterations. For them, it is mutable. In 'Foundation's Edge', the Mayor of the Foundation Federation decides at one point that she believes she knows better than the Seldon Plan, and the ending of the novel leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not she was right.

The second novel, 'Foundation and Empire', is the one that I would say undermines the Foundationers' blind reliance on Seldon's work, though.

 

[OneCatch]

Foundation - We are an advanced scientific foundation tasked with bringing order, science, and civilisation back to the entire galaxy. You ask if we practice critical thinking? Nah, we rely on this old dead guy who doesn't feel the need to explain himself *at all*, and whose work is completely unverifiable.

Some of the later books deal with the Foundation's nearly-blind trust and reliance on the Seldon Plan, and undermine it somewhat.

Spoiler: Spoilers for 'Foundation and Empire', 'Second Foundation', and 'Foundation's Edge'

In 'Foundation and Empire', as a massive crisis threatens the Foundation, the Foundationers gather around Seldon's projector, awaiting the scheduled projection to guide them... only to find that Seldon's recording bears almost no resemblance to reality. History has significantly diverged. The Foundationers panic, forced to truly rely on themselves for the first time.

Later on, as the series details the Second Foundation, it shows how the Second Foundationers treat Seldon's work as a basis, but build and alter it significantly, and alter eachother's alterations. For them, it is mutable. In 'Foundation's Edge', the Mayor of the Foundation Federation decides at one point that she believes she knows better than the Seldon Plan, and the ending of the novel leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not she was right.

The second novel, 'Foundation and Empire', is the one that I would say undermines the Foundationers' blind reliance on Seldon's work, though.

Yeah, I know it gets somewhat addressed in later books, but I still find it slightly incredible that a society founded on science and reason would put such blind trust in what is essentially a self-styled prophet, even before

Spoiler

the Mule. I know that some of the main leads hypothesise or 'discover' that their lack of intimate knowledge of the Plan was vital, even as early as Foundation, but that's an external handwave, not internally consistent.
The Second Foundation had some knowledge of psychohistory itself in order to at least deconstruct the basis on which Seldon made his predictions and as you say, regard it as flexible.

It's a shame that Foundation is the best written one really, because the later ones make more sense!
That said, I don't want to be too critical - Foundation is... well... a foundation of modern science fiction, and is among my favourite grand-scope science fiction.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

SNIP

What I love is how, randomly placed in all that awfulness, is this song:
"I'm Really Excited About the Upcoming David Buskin Concert"

 

[Dragonlayer]

28 Days Later[/b] - Man must overcome compassion and kill outgroup. Woman must learn compassion and romance man.

Eh? I always thought the moral of that story was that Dr Who is a rapist.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Bloody internet, give me a second to fix this mods.

 

[Dragonlayer]

28 Days Later - Man must overcome compassion and kill outgroup. Woman must learn compassion and romance man.

Eh? I always thought that the moral of that story was that Dr Who is a rapist.

To mods: Can you delete my other two posts in this thread? Uni internet is playing havoc with my posting.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Any Gears of War novel by Karen Traviss: all civilians are worthless, two-timing, shiftless scum who at best, are apathetic about the COG's heroic efforts to keep humanity alive and at worse are criminals who'd bury a blade between a soldier's shoulders to steal his rations.

I mean, I get the context of the universe is that humanity is fucked without an ultra-militaristic dictatorship and even then they are barely hanging on against the Locust, but there is not a single decent civilian character in any of the books!

Also: to hell with your family, the military is your only real family!

Karen Traviss is kinda weird like that. I did not read any of the Gears of War novels but if you read her Star Wars stuff, it follows a similar pattern. "Fuck those Jedi, the Mandalorians and their misunderstood ultra-militaristic society are really where it's at"

Yeah, I've heard of that before; that she really goes out of her way to depict the Jedi as blatantly hypocritical and needlessly jerkish just so her personal favourites can be justified in whatever it is they do. I guess she just really enjoyed her time in the TA....

 

[jademunky]

Yeah, I've heard of that before; that she really goes out of her way to depict the Jedi as blatantly hypocritical and needlessly jerkish just so her personal favourites can be justified in whatever it is they do. I guess she just really enjoyed her time in the TA....

Oh, she has a military background. Okay I can kinda forgive her Michael Baying it up then.

 

[Dalisclock]

Life of Pi- Lies are okay if they make you feel better.

Oh, Sorry. You said things I like.

 

[Majinash]

Avatar: The Legend of Korra told us that it's abhorent to remove the powers from those who have superpowers by birth, even if those people use their powers to subjucate and denigrate their fellows.

Wait what? What did the airbender children do to deserve having their superpowers taken away? Seaon 1 of Korra had the same message as X-Men: Don't go on a crusade against a group of people with super powers, it's just racism.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

I am a big fan of war themed metal music, i am not sure of anything else

Spoiler: Raubtier

Fill your life with Top Model and Robinson
Brighten up your life with classy and faeces and follow john
It is too heavy for the drone to be creative
So its now left and wasting your single life

Healthy, vegan, gossip magazines
We have a plan, and the solution becomes very fine
One last show for all of you to look at
A grand finale freighted with B-52

Let napalm rain down
Burn down all over the world
Let it rain down
All the best on your journey
Let napalm rain down

Predator Project, urbanization, disposed music
Must be replaced by silent black burnt corpse
One last rain and then it is finished playing
At the fire's oceans will fry machine, forever fried

Let napalm rain down
Burn down all over the world
Let it rain down
All the best on your journey
Let napalm rain down

Natriumalumninat, polished styrene, a bomber and petrol
Gasoline!

Natriumalumninat, polished styrene, a bomber and petrol
Gasoline!

A good recipe for doom
Which ensures that the tan is nice

Let napalm rain down
Burn down all over the world
Let it rain down
All the best on your journey
Let napalm rain down

Spoiler: Bolt Thrower

Look to the sky the time has come
Stand and be brave you body feels numb
Face the atrocity at what you have become
Twisting your mind it's only just begun

Fear of religion, war, insanity
This decision - die for my deity
Power to those who question destiny
Man destroys untamed animosity

Blood - the taste of death is sweet
Death - my victory is complete
Devour - your soul now we're as one
Mercy - in this world I give you none

I am the carrion lord
Bow to me and give my praise
Sacrifice the blood of a thousand souls
Only then your life I will save

You're my living warrior
My strength shall be my revenge
You shall have no remorse
As you slay for my right
To control the downfall of man

Fear of religion, war, insanity
This decision - die for my deity
Power to those who question destiny
Man destroys untamed animosity

Blood - the taste of death is sweet
Death - my victory is complete
Devour - your soul now we're as one
Mercy - in this world I give you none

Only the insane have the strength to prosper
And only those that prosper judge what is sane

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

Old James Bond movies/books.

Examples:
There's no such thing as a lesbian, only women that haven't met a real man.
Homosexuals (male) are evil, and cannot whistle.
Women are hysterics and need to be slapped around once in a while. Also, they're kind of useless (except for sex - see above!).
Smoking, drinking and gambling are about the coolest things you can do.

That's a bit of a cynical reading and mostly applies to the older films. The novels themselves and the Daniel Craig era films don't fall into the same category of pantomime silliness - sure, the novels are very "of their time" regarding attitudes to women and drink, but not cartoonishly so: they're not the endless romps of drunkenly backhanding women that they're sometimes described as.

No, they're certainly not, but I did specify old James Bond, first of all, and the lesbian thing is just kind of hinted at in the movie, but made very very clear in the book (I am of course talking about Pussy Galore/Goldfinger), so I am very much describing the books as well as the older movies. I'll happily excuse or ignore it - I love James Bond, but like you said, it's very "of its time", and I don't agree much with "that time".
Bond smokes a lot more in the books than in the films!
The "evil homos" I got mostly from a movie (Diamonds are Forever, which also happens to be my sometimes favourite James Bond film!), but the whistling thing I don't remember except second hand from a professor, and QI.

QI clip, btw, because it's funny: http://youtu.be/Ane4F9o7KkY

 

[duwenbasden]

Puff the Magic Dragon, live by the sea,
and he's not smoking a pipe on the shores of Hannaleeeeee...

Bad Boys 2, if he sounds foreign, he's a gangster.

KSP, because Kerbals are expendable as long as there's SCIENCE.

 

[sageoftruth]

Avatar: The Legend of Korra told us that it's abhorent to remove the powers from those who have superpowers by birth, even if those people use their powers to subjucate and denigrate their fellows.

Wait what? What did the airbender children do to deserve having their superpowers taken away? Seaon 1 of Korra had the same message as X-Men: Don't go on a crusade against a group of people with super powers, it's just racism.

Still, a bunch of articles made a pretty decent point about that. Having the power to kill someone with your mind, or burn a hole in their head with eye lasers is not exactly the same as having a sexual interest or skin color that makes people uncomfortable. Being afraid of someone who can easily kill you on a whim is far more logical than being afraid of someone who's simply of a different race.
People argue about gun control in the US all the time. Suppose the government decided to disband the police force (police are often helpless against mutants), randomly arm half the populace and forbid the rest of them to carry anything. That kind of world is a world with mutants. No one regulates who gets powers, and these powers randomly go to any Joe, Jim, Sally or Suzy in the world, regardless of their values, temperament or mental stability.
Sure, there are tons of mutants who use their powers responsibly, but you can't trust them all to be that way with their powers, and the wrong mutant in the wrong place could lead to a bloodbath.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Limitless - You've been endowed with hyperintelligence? Yeah, your default state will now be that of a bloody yuppie. Fuck original intellectual endeavour.

I think NZT was suppose to do more than just give you hyperintelligence? It quite clearly makes people who take it arrogant assholes (quite honestly that sounds like a pop at coke). At the start Eddie's a poor author, but after taking NZT he's entirely self obsessed and ridiculously driven by power and money. The woman (I forgot her name) used a kid to fend off someone chasing her when she was on NZT, but regretted it afterwards. Eddie's actions aren't exactly shown in a good light either, so it's not really being advocated.

I thought the message was more 'drugs are pretty bad, mkay' and 'Capitalism (and politics) is full of bellends'.

 

[ABLb0y]

I have been known, to my eternal shame, to enjoy the odd Guardian article. Its endless banging of the aggressive, censorious PC left wing drum, which has done more to destroy UK society than any other modern society minority sect, plus it's hardline trotskite Socialist message, the creed responsible for the most murder, repression and bankruptcy ever (it has literally never succeded), makes it probably the most dangerous paper in the UK. I like some of the reviews though and Charlie Brooker makes me laugh.

OK, I have to ask, when you call Political Correctness a 'minority sect' that's destroying UK society, what exactly do you mean? Do you think that Left Wing people are trying to take over the world, New World Order style, through acceptance of homosexuals and other minorities? What exactly have we done to destroy UK society? I'm genuinely curious.

OP: I quite enjoyed Lily Allen's song Hard Out There, which whilst it had a message of advancing women's place in society, the music video featured some pretty objectified POC women.

 

[ForumSafari]

Inception - Screwing with someone's psyche is great! I mean yeah it's grossly invasive, but the guy's dad was a bit of a dick. It's helping him! I'm sure there won't be any unintended consequences - it went so well for the last person [http://xenlogic.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/inception-mal.jpg], right?

Umm, they don't think they're helping him. They're the mental equivalent of hackers or bank robbers, they're implanting an idea for him to break up his company on behalf of a competitor. The entire film is a bank heist.

Starship Troopers:

...all the militaristic antidemocratic stuff.

I'm sure you already know this but Starship Troopers is speculative fiction, it's a what-if story about democracy being extended only to servicemen.

It may well be questionable to some people but those people would have completely missed the point of speculative fiction.

Do you think that Left Wing people are trying to take over the world, New World Order style, through acceptance of homosexuals and other minorities? What exactly have we done to destroy UK society? I'm genuinely curious.

The Guardian, particularly the comment section, is guilty of frequently...well if we're being honest lying its' ass off. It's also guilty of calling for action on situation's it's completely misunderstood. Like do you remember that Clarkson thing where they were commenting on that strike and Clarkson suggested hanging the lot of them? Well that was seen as being hugely insensitive and right wing but was actually a joke on something else the Guardian tends to hate; the need to present an alternate opinion even when that alternate opinion is stupid.

Also remember the 'plebgate' thing where the Guardian basically set out to smear a conservative MP not based on facts but based on it being something they could imagine a conservative MP saying? Remember their apology? No me neither.