This is not a thread about Feminism!

[Skeleon]

I don't feel the urge to wear skirts. There are, however, some men that do.
I guess it would be good for the social stigma to be removed for those guys' sakes, though personally I don't really care.
But I'd be much more content if women had to do military/community service, too. That's really the only issue where I feel men are at a disadvantage, at least here in Germany.

 

[saxist01]

Okay, so I have a friend who makes the claim that she is a feminist, although by her own admission not a very good one. (she does like sexist humor) However, she tends to take things in the opposite direction most of the time. By that, I mean she worries more about equality for men than women.

For those of you going, "WHA?!" we are of course not talking about equality in the workplace and equality of pay. What she concerns herself with are the social stigmas that are placed upon men, that she deems unfair. Her most specific argument being, "it is socially acceptable for women to wear pants, but socially unacceptable for men to wear skirts."

Using this example, my counter-argument was always, "the difference between getting equality for women (feminism) and getting this equality for men (masculinism), is that most men don't really WANT to wear skirts."

So I ask you: Men - Do any of you have the desire to be able to wear skirts? And is this desire suppressed by the society you live in? Or, are you quite content with the social constraints placed upon you? (the pants-only public)

Women - Do you wish that this kind of pants-only constraint that is placed on men is something that needs to be changed? Do you not care whether or not men can wear pants? Or, is this kind of thinking a little weird?

EDIT: Where did the poll go? How do I get it back?

I think Arab world would not agree with either of you.

No, probably not, but women's rights really don't exist in a large portion of that world. So this discussion would be kind of moot there.

 

[El Poncho]

Eh, no and if I wanted to wear a skirt I would just get my kilt that I had wore at weddings and walked about in that.

 

[twistedmic]

Though not to do with the dress, I always interests me that men are often portrayed as dumb in television adverts. Of course, I'm only talking from what I see as a UK viewer, but it seems to me that men get the short straw. For once, I'd like to see an advert when the men know the number for the loan company, or the site that organises holidays. Would just be a breath of fresh air, is all .

Of course, I'm generalising here, and on the topic of skirts, I wouldn't wear one, though I've always wanted to try out a kilt. However, being english I'd feel a bit of a fool.

Yeah, these advertisements also kinda piss me off. Namely because, as a white male - I'm not a dumb, neanderthal, skirt chaser

I once saw a commercial for some clothes dryer stick-on that announced "- So easy a man could do it." As a male, I found that offensive. I know that if a commercial for anything had reversed the claim i.e. "So easy a woman could do it." the commercial either a. wouldn't have been aired or b. the company would have been boy-cotted.

 

[Slayer_2]

Well few men will have the urge to wear skirts because it has - and most likely will remain - a symbol of femininity. Ask yourself, what is the universal icon used to mark a female-only washroom? A skirt wearing stick-figure.

 

[Mookie_Magnus]

Men wear skorts, not skirts.[/reference]

Yes. I would love for it to be okay for a man to wear a skirt. Would I wear a skirt? Most likely not... But I would want it to be socially okay.

I must say, your female friend is the BEST. WOMAN. EVER. In terms of her beliefs.

 

[Lexodus]

Okay, I'm going to type that again. Because the server made me its *****. Again.

Basically, it pisses me off when I see the 'so easy a man can do it' comments, the man being the idiot in the Glade adverts (among others) or the obligatory girls-vs-boys episodes that happen in every single show, and the like. Guess what? A man can be raped too. A friend got raped by a fat chick at a party. Ever heard of pencilling? If you can't guess what that involves, don't look it up. The mental image will scar you for life. On that note, what woman can't pick up a frying pan and royally fuck you over with it, or stab you with a bread knife? Spousal abuse is an equal playing field, folks.

The perceived difference between males sleeping around and being players and women doing the same and being whores is that society dictates that it is the man's place to make the first move. If you have any shred of decency, you won't rape the girl that turns you down, you'll just go get drunk and be commiserated (and teased) by your mates. The woman's in control of any business that goes on, because she can very easily turn you down, and is more likely to, having higher (often unreasonable for a one-night-stand) standards. You know the old jokes, right? About women wanting money, power and good looks in one package? A man in the same situation (cruising a nightclub for a one-nighter) is a) pretty much guaranteed to be suffering from at least basic beer goggles, and b) has lower standards (i.e she's there, she's got a pulse, most of her own teeth and a fairly sizeable pair of knockers). That isn't to say that the reverse doesn't happen, but in most situations it's the man trying to 'win' the company of the woman by impressing his way into her pants. Its the man that goes in with the game plan, the wingmen who'll bravely suffer the company of a gross fatty with fungus, and the Dutch Courage.

(Sources for research include: sneaking into bars (the beard helps (oooh, triple brackets!)) and watching the process, talking to people who have had experience with the process, and analyzing the dating scene through schools and college (hey, if I'm not out there myself, I might as well use the extra time for some research (and again! Man, I'm good at this!))).


One last point: you know that they say that almost all girls hang around with at least two plainer girls whenever possible to make themselves look better? It's true. Goddamn, it's true.

 

[Lexodus]

Well few men will have the urge to wear skirts because it has - and most likely will remain - a symbol of femininity. Ask yourself, what is the universal icon used to mark a female-only washroom? A skirt wearing stick-figure.

And the other way around? A trouser-wearing figure. But it's still acceptable for a woman to wear trousers...

 

[stone0042]

Ha, i laugh in the face of your skirts. Shorts, now that is where it's at.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Meh, if it was normal and socially acceptable, I'd go ahead and wear a kilt.
I think your friend is the only kind of feminist: the one actually looking for equality, not superiority.

Fixed for you.

I think it's stupid for anyone to wear skirts, male or female. They inhibit leg movement and sometimes let unwelcome people see your junk.

No, they don't. They are supremely practical and extremely comfortable. Kilts, to be precise, are also the sign of manliness, and also one of the principle requirements of any British army action is to include at least one regiment of kilt-wearers.

Remember that - men have gone to war in articles of clothing that were not skirts, but shared small similarities. And they rarely lose, either.

 

[saxist01]

Men wear skorts, not skirts.[/reference]

Yes. I would love for it to be okay for a man to wear a skirt. Would I wear a skirt? Most likely not... But I would want it to be socially okay.

I must say, your female friend is the BEST. WOMAN. EVER. In terms of her beliefs.

Yeah, she's a real cool girl. Not up-tight, fun to hang around with. My whole point to her though was that this thinking will be unlikely to change because males generally don't want to change.

 

[saxist01]

Okay, so I have a friend who makes the claim that she is a feminist, although by her own admission not a very good one. (she does like sexist humor) However, she tends to take things in the opposite direction most of the time. By that, I mean she worries more about equality for men than women.

For those of you going, "WHA?!" we are of course not talking about equality in the workplace and equality of pay. What she concerns herself with are the social stigmas that are placed upon men, that she deems unfair. Her most specific argument being, "it is socially acceptable for women to wear pants, but socially unacceptable for men to wear skirts."

Using this example, my counter-argument was always, "the difference between getting equality for women (feminism) and getting this equality for men (masculinism), is that most men don't really WANT to wear skirts."

So I ask you: Men - Do any of you have the desire to be able to wear skirts? And is this desire suppressed by the society you live in? Or, are you quite content with the social constraints placed upon you? (the pants-only public)

Women - Do you wish that this kind of pants-only constraint that is placed on men is something that needs to be changed? Do you not care whether or not men can wear pants? Or, is this kind of thinking a little weird?

EDIT: Where did the poll go? How do I get it back?

I think Arab world would not agree with either of you.

No, probably not, but women's rights really don't exist in a large portion of that world. So this discussion would be kind of moot there.

I actually wanted to imply that arab men usually don't wear pants.

Really? do they wear those full body robes? (don't know the name)

 

[Lexodus]

And yes, anyone (or, preferably, nobody) should be allowed to go topless. One rule for all, whatever the result.
I suppose, however, the thinking behind it all is that most people find 'the most erotic part of a woman is the boobies', to quote Futurama. If not the most, then at least a highly sexual part. Whatever the reasoning, men just don't seem to tire of boobs, and if you let people run around topless everywhere, a) a lot of us would be walking around with permanent erections for months (unless we lived in an area frequented by the elderly ), or at least until it became the norm, and b), there would always be the immature retard who would go around, 'honking' people.

Also, raep is not a pretty cool guy. Eh makes unwanted babbiez and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Curiosity's Cat]

"the difference between getting equality for women (feminism) and getting this equality for men (masculinism), is that most men don't really WANT to wear skirts."

Ok, I have to point out a bit of a misnomer here. Getting equality for women and getting equality for men aren't two different things. Equality is equality. If a man's lot isn't equal, then a woman's can't be either.

To me your friend sounds like the awesome kind of feminist, one who's concerned with true gender equality, not just female empowerment. Why don't men get paternity leave? Why are stay-at-home dads stereotyped as emasculated, instead of guys that love their kids and want to bring them up?

If women want equality, they should be concerned with issues like this as well. We've reached a point, in most first world countries at least, where what we have is not men oppressing women, but both genders kept away from fulfilling certain kinds of roles because of prevailing social attitudes.

Back on topic, the transvestite comedian Eddie Izzard does a bit on this. He pretty much actually says, "women got to wear pants, now I'm going to wear a skirt, it's all just fabric anyway, and in fifty years this is going to be normal."

 

[darthzew]

Women and men should be different. I don't want both sexes to be the same, that'd be weird.

 

[DracoSuave]

She's not a feminist, she's an egalitarian who clearly has a sense of humor and has chosen not to be an asshole about it.

Which is far superior and a much better direction to go.

Feminism simply means promoting the rights of women, and doesn't necessarily take the entire picture into view. Egalitarianism means that everyone should have the same rights, and can choose what to do or not do with those rights by their own free choice.

 

[Fumbles]

I would wear a kilt. For sure, no doubt in my mind.

/thread

 

[saxist01]

"the difference between getting equality for women (feminism) and getting this equality for men (masculinism), is that most men don't really WANT to wear skirts."

Ok, I have to point out a bit of a misnomer here. Getting equality for women and getting equality for men aren't two different things. Equality is equality. If a man's lot isn't equal, then a woman's can't be either.

To me your friend sounds like the awesome kind of feminist, one who's concerned with true gender equality, not just female empowerment. Why don't men get paternity leave? Why are stay-at-home dads stereotyped as emasculated, instead of guys that love their kids and want to bring them up?

If women want equality, they should be concerned with issues like this as well. We've reached a point, in most first world countries at least, where what we have is not men oppressing women, but both genders kept away from fulfilling certain kinds of roles because of prevailing social attitudes.

Back on topic, the transvestite comedian Eddie Izzard does a bit on this. He pretty much actually says, "women got to wear pants, now I'm going to wear a skirt, it's all just fabric anyway, and in fifty years this is going to be normal."

I agree with you completely about the paternity leave and that kind of stuff, but do you really think that it is possible to overcome mens' own stigmas about wearing dresses and skirts to reach the type of equality Eddie Izzard talks about?

 

[Akai Shizuku]

I think it's stupid for anyone to wear skirts, male or female. They inhibit leg movement and sometimes let unwelcome people see your junk.

I approve of anyone wearing skirts, because they sometimes let me see your junk.

You like looking at men's junk?

Who DOESN'T?

I really, really hope that's sarcasm.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

point is most men don't really care to put much effort into looking good in the standrad dress (not kilt)