This is Why Criticizing Anita Sarkheesian is Irrelevant and Pointless

[Wyvern65]

Not trying to be in the least disrespectful, but I answered those questions in my second post on the first page. I'm willing to expand on anything there you might have a question about, but not interested in just repeating myself.

Cheers.

 

[Insanely Asinine]

Wait, I'm confused. In the link she says "Thanks #XboxOne #E3 press conference for revealing to us exactly zero games featuring a female protagonist for the next generation"

But an article on the front page of the Escapist says "Mirror's Edge 2 was announced at the EA E3 2013 press conference moments ago"

So am I missing something here?

You're not missing anything. It's Ana being Ana.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Gotta laugh.

I read a few pages of this forum before I loaded the actual link to see what she picked out. I was expecting so much worse. These are really very tame.

It makes me smile that she would claim an entitlement issue.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Amazing how she managed a master's degree in media studies and at the same time is absolutely shocked that when you post something inflamatory on twitter, no matter who you are, you get idiots posting in response. [/sarcasm]

What exactly was "inflammatory" about what she said? She commented that there were no games introduced at the XBone presser featuring women... and the responses were not "I disagree. Here's an example of a game that..." The responses were essentially agreeing and saying this was a good thing.

And the rest were just flat-out attacks at the woman for being a woman. How did anything she said at the start of that warrant that kind of response?

For being a woman?

You loaded that one nicely. I don't use twitter, but... I do have some trouble imagining that all of the female users are subject to endless abuse just for being female. I suspect that Anita was selected because of the things she says, which isn't to say the abuse is "right", it's to say that the reasons are different from what you said. The distinction is important, I feel.

 

[Dastardly]

For being a woman?

You loaded that one nicely. I don't use twitter, but... I do have some trouble imagining that all of the female users are subject to endless abuse just for being female. I suspect that Anita was selected because of the things she says, which isn't to say the abuse is "right", it's to say that the reasons are different from what you said. The distinction is important, I feel.

You misunderstand. Folks did not seek her out to make the comments simply because she is "a woman." What I mean is that the comments themselves, when they are choosing her bad qualities to target, are almost exclusively focused on the fact that she is a woman.

I could, say, hate you for being, I dunno, Canadian or something. Or I could hate you because you scratched my car and lit my dog on fire, but then all of my ranting and raving are about you being Canadian. I should be ranting about you doing the awful things you did (or the things I feel are awful, at least)... but instead, my comments are focusing on an unrelated fact.

This would convey, to the casual observer, that 1) I don't fully understand the reason for my own anger, and 2) I really, really have some deep fear or loathing toward Canadians.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

She posted this today.

I must say I like the fact Princess Peach is playable too and dat cat suit <3

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/52752086803/new-video-game-trailers-featuring-women-at-e3-2013

"Peach is playable in a Super Mario game for the first time in 25 years" WHAT ???
OMG... OMG...
She's not even a gamer. Where has she been all those years ? This is just not real,its a lie.
It would be more believable if she said extra terrestials are walking among us.
Only non-gamers can take her seriously,those who are completely ignorant with video games.
What she says is outright lies that offend our intellingence.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

For being a woman?

You loaded that one nicely. I don't use twitter, but... I do have some trouble imagining that all of the female users are subject to endless abuse just for being female. I suspect that Anita was selected because of the things she says, which isn't to say the abuse is "right", it's to say that the reasons are different from what you said. The distinction is important, I feel.

You misunderstand. Folks did not seek her out to make the comments simply because she is "a woman." What I mean is that the comments themselves, when they are choosing her bad qualities to target, are almost exclusively focused on the fact that she is a woman.

I could, say, hate you for being, I dunno, Canadian or something. Or I could hate you because you scratched my car and lit my dog on fire, but then all of my ranting and raving are about you being Canadian. I should be ranting about you doing the awful things you did (or the things I feel are awful, at least)... but instead, my comments are focusing on an unrelated fact.

This would convey, to the casual observer, that 1) I don't fully understand the reason for my own anger, and 2) I really, really have some deep fear or loathing toward Canadians.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood or if you mis-spoke, to be honest.

The issue I have with claims like yours is that I think they're massively assumptious. I think your example is fine in a self-contained sense, but doesn't apply for good reasons.

People have humour, humour doesn't always translate well in text or to specific audiences. It'd be awesome if humour was universal, but it's not. It's best we try not to assume the worst in others, don't you think?

When her shtick is feminism, people trolling her picking gendered insults isn't coming out of nowhere... it's related. It's like insulting Jesus to annoy a Christian. There's a reason to pick what is picked.

Also... these posts aren't even that bad. Many of them make decent points about existing audiences and market pressures. I'm not sure you can explain it away as "endemic male-entitlement" or whatever...

We're probably all just pissing in the wind. That's life.

 

[Schadrach]

Internet =/= gamers. As much as I agree that a lot of the comments lobbed at her are vile, she's not special in this regard, because this happens constantly.

^ This is truth.

I've had a fair number of people wish death on me and my family because of my political views, a lot of other people I know have to put up with condescending pricks constantly, or outright get forced into confrontations.

It took politics for you to get death threats? Damn. I've gotten them for talking about WoW class balance before. To be fair, the only place I'm willing to talk much about politics any more are the Escapist P&R forum, since people are actually pretty civil down there.

There are entire websites (4chan, Encyclopedia Dramatica, etc) devoted to spewing hate speech specifically tailored to get under someone's skin.

Yes, there are. I'd ask anyone who believes that Anita Sarkeesian got some sort of unusual extreme sexist attack that reveals underlying misogyny on the internet especially from gamers, rather than a mild to moderate case of pissing off 4chan to check out Encyclopedia Dramatica on an empty stomach. Possibly look up Alex Wuori (the guy the FOX Anonymous piece was about) or Chris-chan if you want some examples.

Look, here is a thought: Maybe the Trolls are actually human beings that should never ever and never be excused to write the bile that they write for any reason.

Who ever *excuses* trolls? What I see a lot more of is accepting trolls as a fact of life that one has to deal with, because that's essentially what they are. You build a shelter to keep from getting rained on, you bring in moderators to deal with trolls. Both can be flooded into meaninglessness.

Of course men have a right to be represented in games, and in many ways, they still aren't fully; how often do you see a black male protagonist over a white one for example? The reason your not racist for wanting better female representation is because it does not exist on the same level as male representation. So the feminist argument goes like this "if men have a right to be represented in this medium, don't women also?" Again, like Ive said before, Anita isn't mad at any one game or developer for the over all trend, she simply wants more to take the risk and try and represent women better. And when large conglomerates like Microsoft refuse to budge out side of their idea that men are still the only demographic worth aiming for then feminists are within their right to call them on that without being sexist against men.

To put it plainly, saying women need to be represented more does not mean representing men is wrong.

No one has a "right" to representation in any kind of media.. No one is entitled to a certain measure of being depicted in artistic works of any variety, let alone being depicted the way they want to be (and/or no other way). The long and short answer to issues of representation in media is to vote with your wallet and/or start creating yourself if you don't like the existing depictions. Or just whine about it and pretend that people have a right to specific media depictions like Anita does.

 

[Insanely Asinine]

Her arrogance is in her conflating the failings of the forum (the internet) with actual opposition of her views.

If you tweet about how lynching people on the basis of skin color is abhorrent, you will receive an endless series of terrifyingly racist responses. This is not indicative of anything other than the internet's ability to generate attention-seeking assholes.

I guarantee a majority of the people tweeting her with offensive remarks know, objectively, that there are some gender equality issues in gaming and the world at large. They aren't voicing legitimate disagreement. They are pushing her buttons. I believe she knows this, and that she is using it to fuel her "career". From a purely capitalist point of view, I guess that's alright. It just doesn't do much for me intellectually.

Um... Even if it's a ploy, the people still falling FOR the ploy are still being racist/homophobic/sexist/whatever. That's kinda enough proof as it is that these people still exist and are still very very vocal.

It's typical troll rhetoric. A troll trying to out troll a troll. Of if said troll doesn't know that someone is a troll they are being fed to what Know Your Meme calls a "Cannibal" Troll. If you take any trolling seriously you are just feeding the troll and making said troll a successful troll. Of course if one troll is successful congratulations you are now a feeding ground for trolls because said trolls roam in packs.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/52673540142/twitter-vs-female-protagonists-in-video-games

She can pretty much film herself juggling fruit in her basement and as long as the title of her video touches on how much sexism there is in the culture, then she has a legitimate point. I don't want to imply that criticism of her points/videos is invalid or unwelcome on all accounts, but breaking down her style of delivery sort of strikes me as imprudent and short-sighted, like trying to find grammatical errors in Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream Speech."

And in the meanwhile she uses electronic equipment to write and record videos of herself reciting her droll, opinionated & bitter middle-class white girl angst; equipment, which is only made affordable for her to purchase because poor non-English speaking people cobble it together for pennies in a factory far enough away that she can concentrate on how all of her first world problems are dreadfully inconvenient for her to suffer through.

Yeah.

Like I do get why some people might complain, often bitterly, about how the free market typically overlooks the undisputed fact that they're an ultra special unique snow flake who goes against type. I can see why people might be annoyed that businesses regularly engage in almost futile industrial blood letting by competing too vigorously for the largest demographic, while smaller demographics miss out on representation entirely.

But arguing about representations of women in popular culture isn't a real social justice issue. It's a social inconvenience issue brought up by people who have completely lost touch of how harsh reality can be, or alternatively have been warped by seeing how harsh reality can in fact be, but then have been brainwashed into believing that popular media is to blame it. Because believing popular culture is to blame is easier for some people to believe in then the reality that some people are just physiologically more inclined to be absolute shitheads to other people.

 

[Insanely Asinine]

Look, here is a thought: Maybe the Trolls are actually human beings that should never ever and never be excused to write the bile that they write for any reason.

Here is also a thought: Maybe these humans are not being excused for being trolls but are warned about because like any animal they will come back to a place that feeds them.

 

[Dark Knifer]

All I see in that link is a bunch of idiots being idiots. She's feeding the trolls, which is annoying and trolls are being annoying. Really nothing of discussion here, especially in regards to the quality of her videos in that link.

 

[Flamb3Nobunaga]

Christ, while I do find Anita Sarkheesian annoying, why can't people just let her scream and wave her arms while people pay her no mind? Really, we're just giving her validation by bashing her like she's a feminist pinata.

 

[Something Amyss]

share of voice.

Come now. She had almost no discernible reach until everyone started screaming about her.

If you don't like her, fine. Just don't reach like this. It's absurd.

Internet =/= gamers.

But unless they're mutually exclusive, my point still stands. Are they mutually exclusive?

 

[Something Amyss]

Christ, while I do find Anita Sarkheesian annoying, why can't people just let her scream and wave her arms while people pay her no mind? Really, we're just giving her validation by bashing her like she's a feminist pinata.

Yes, SHE's the one who screams and waves her arms.

 

[Vegosiux]

Internet =/= gamers.

But unless they're mutually exclusive, my point still stands.

I'm sorry, what? No no no, you know better than to pull the "guilt by association" card, I know you do.

 

[generals3]

share of voice.

Come now. She had almost no discernible reach until everyone started screaming about her.

If you don't like her, fine. Just don't reach like this. It's absurd.

How is that relevant? She still is the loudest person atm. It's unfortunate some people had to troll her which allowed her to pull the DiD card but ey it's too late to fix that now ain't it?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
http://imgur.com/zSToV

As it is too late and she has been given attention it is now our duty to make sure every publisher and developer realizes that she's notorious and not famous and that they should under no circumstance pull an "EA".

 

[BrionJames]

I'm going to leave this here for you. Please watch at your leisure. http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sexism_videogames

 

[Bruce]

I was going to agree to you until you compared a feminist who has no right to be the voice of feminism in gaming for various legitimate reasons to a guy who spent his life fighting out in the streets for equal rights for minorities and died because of it, real freaking tasteless, bub.

So, you don't believe she has the right to free speech (AKA the right to be the voice of whatever the hell cause she wants) and you have the temerity to criticise somebody else for comparing her to MLK?

 

[Bruce]

share of voice.

Come now. She had almost no discernible reach until everyone started screaming about her.

If you don't like her, fine. Just don't reach like this. It's absurd.

How is that relevant? She still is the loudest person atm. It's unfortunate some people had to troll her which allowed her to pull the DiD card but ey it's too late to fix that now ain't it?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
http://imgur.com/zSToV

As it is too late and she has been given attention it is now our duty to make sure every publisher and developer realizes that she's notorious and not famous and that they should under no circumstance pull an "EA".

What is she arguing for?

She is arguing for more varied and better written female characters, placed in a greater variety of roles. Why should we, as gamers, object to this? Why would it be 'pulling an EA' for games writers to not suck at writing women?