Thor Is Getting Gender-Flipped. Officially.

[Lightknight]

I see what you mean. It's more that they're changing a character to bring in a female, and not about the female being illegitimate because they act the same way a male. That's fair enough then, I apologise, I was arguing against a point you weren't really making. I have seen other people complain when a female character is used that they aren't "female enough", and that's basically what I read your comment to mean.

I was hoping that's what you were thinking and that my post would clear things up. Thank you for listening!

As for your actual complaint, it does seem to be a bit odd that they're firing him and replacing him as part of the story, and it does seem a little wrong if they're only doing it to fulfil some imaginary quota of required female heroes. I wonder if, though, it might be more like a retooling of the original Thor character. What I mean is, is the original Thor still going to be a character with his own adventures and such, except he no longer has his old position? Or are they really just sweeping him under the rug to get some positive PR with a female lead? (which seems a little scummy and misguided)

I don't really know the subject well enough to be able to tell.

Yeah, we'll have to see how they do it to begin with and how they handle it going forward. I think this particular situation is more blatant because Thor isn't just Thor of Marvel fame. Thor is a mythical figure from a culture they appropriated. Unlike most of the other male characters, this is the one that's been male for over a thousand years. We gave references of the Germanic people talking about Thor during the Roman era and by that time Thor was frequently mentioned meaning his history spans that much further in the past.

So, to that effect, this is an even bigger slight against men than had IronMan become IronWarrior with breasts.

 

[Lightknight]

nope nope nope,

this is not how you attract women to comics!
Promote your female characters, make them more than the token female in the room,

don't slap boobs on Thor!

We also have a problem people seem to completely ignore. Yes, there are female comic book readers, but in general we may have run into a scenario where there is a significant difference of preference by gender in aggregate. What I mean is that we've found quantifiable differences of preference by gender regarding literature, TV, and movies. Maybe the best way to cater to women isn't just to ape something traditionally aimed at men so much as beginning to write comics that actually directly cater to women. I don't know what that would be or look like. But we do know that the action/adventure genres in movies and literature typically get passed over by females (again, in aggregate) and that's basically the genre Thor and all the big names have been.

The way to attract a demographic is to make things they want. Not to slap an identifiable character in place of something they don't want. Trying to be PC shouldn't make us incapable of recognizing and celebrating our differences. Yet it makes pointing out differences generally taboo and in my eyes that's just as wrong a way for society to go as it was to give preference to one set of differences.

 

[Mangod]

Both would be refered to as simply Judge Dredd on patrol, like Officer Scott or Officer Hodges. But just because they have similar names doesn't mean they're the same person, nor are they interchangeable. If Joe ever has children (unlikely, but you never know), and they join the Justice Deparment, they would be refered to as Judge Dredd as well.

Joe Dredd does have 'children' of a sort.

Dolman was cloned from Dredd's DNA, not that of Fargo (though technically its the same thing I suppose.)

Also Cadet Jessica Paris is another 'clone' from Dredd's DNA.

Neither of them used the name of Dredd.

Also must mention Judge Rico. He is a clone of Fargo and was originally called 'Judge Dredd' while at the academy. He changed it to Rico instead on getting his full Eagle.

Yes, but as you'll notice, none of them have, or at least use, the last name Dredd. Judge is his official title, like Officer or Constable, while Dredd is his real last name. If he ever quit the force, he'd still be Joe Dredd. Here, I'll reference you Another post:

There's female Judges, but there's no female Dredd. Or at least no Female Judge Joe Dredd.

They're police officers, so Judge is the same as Officer in the real world.

Anyone else taking up the mantle of Judge becomes Judge...whatever their second name is. Judge Hershey, Judge Anderson, Judge Mcgruder etc. There could be a female Judge called "Judge Dredd", if Joe Dredd has children, but that would be because her second name is Dredd. That wouldn't make her, nor any of the other female Judges "female versions of Judge Dredd". Judge Joe Dredd is just one Judge on a force of Judges.

Judge Dredd just happens to be the focus character. Other characters are not gender swaps or immitations of him.

+1 to the above post.

 

[Artemicion]

She looks like a total badass. I strongly approve.

 

[Lightknight]

She looks like a total badass. I strongly approve.

You know, there are other female Norse god characters that the universe has in place that were already badass characters. Sif will mess you up, sucka! There's also Brunnhilde (Valkarie).

They didn't have to alter Thor to have badass female godlike characters.

http://d2vo5twcnd9mdi.cloudfront.net/uploads_f65195ec-cfed-4fb7-aa32-9d0a47fb7dfe-tumblr_lmmdp0PROK1qzppiio1_500.png

In my personal opinion. Sif was already 10x more badass than Thor ever was. And yet, no, she doesn't get a fair shake in it either.

 

[God'sFist]

By the way this isn't the first time this has happened in a previous comic called earth x. In which Loki tricked Odin to transform Thor into a woman as a punishment.

captcha: lose face that is surprisingly topical captcha

 

[Lightknight]

By the way this isn't the first time this has happened in a previous comic called earth x. In which Loki tricked Odin to transform Thor into a woman as a punishment.

captcha: lose face that is surprisingly topical captcha

Gender role and physical sex are two separate things. That was the male Thor in a woman's body not Thor fully as a woman mentally and physically. The transgendered community would appreciate that distinction.

 

[God'sFist]

By the way this isn't the first time this has happened in a previous comic called earth x. In which Loki tricked Odin to transform Thor into a woman as a punishment.

captcha: lose face that is surprisingly topical captcha

Gender role and physical sex are two separate things. That was the male Thor in a woman's body not Thor fully as a woman mentally and physically. The transgendered community would appreciate that distinction.

well my whole point in posting that was really to illustrate they did it before. How long this series lasted however I have no clue since I only own two or three of the comics.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

The only thought running through my mind right now is: "How convenient".

 

[Atmos Duality]

Meh, I'll see what they do with the character first and then judge.
Gender alone isn't the defining point of a good character (a flat 2D wannabe or caricature perhaps), nuance is.

 

[Winnosh]

I don't see the big deal. People are acting like this is the first time Thor's been replaced. Hel, it isn't even the first time he's been replaced by a woman. It's temporary just like all of those other times. Just like Doc Ock replacing Peter Parker. It'll probably make a good story for a year, maybe two and then Thor comes back. Thor isn't even leaving the comic someone else is taking up the mantle while he's doing something else.

 

[SAMAS]

You know, I was on the "wait and see, 'cause you know it's probably gonna get retconned right back in three years or less" bus at first, then I read the part about Angela.

Now I'm worried.

 

[SAMAS]

Putting the politics aside...

What is the goal?

Seriously.

What is this supposed to do?

Sell comics.

Am I supposed to be impressed?

Maybe.

Am I supposed to be more interested in buying a Thor comic?

You specifically? No. They said it was a way to attract more female readers.

Whether or not that's the best way to do it? Now that's another story...

 

[votemarvel]

Yes, but as you'll notice, none of them have, or at least use, the last name Dredd.

That was exactly my point, I'm really not sure how you missed it.

Judge Rico was called Cadet Dredd before getting his full Eagle. He chose not to use the name 'Dredd' because of the weight that it carries.

I'm genuinely interested in what they'll do when Joe Dredd does eventually die. After all he and the world he inhabits ages in real time, Joe is touching 70 years old now.

Will they overdose him on Stookie in a story and revert his age? Will they put a new Judge in the role, could Rico take his original name back or could young Cadet Paris step into the role her 'dad' used to do (be interesting to see an active Judge with a kid.)

I'm much more excited about this future possibility of the Dredd name passing to a female judge than that of Thor.

US comics stay relatively static, there is always the expectation that things will return to the status quo and children are introduced sparingly.

Yet Dredd's world is constantly changing, constantly ageing. His views and attitude have changed a great deal, yet he remains the same person because he's been allowed to grow up. He even sees some of the c;ones as his eventual replacement.

Ah forgive the ramble. I love the world of Dredd and would equally love to see other characters, from other companies, be allowed to grow up as he has.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

?Feminism? has officially become as marketable a buzzword as ?feelgood films? to the cinema-viewing audience.

Anyway, no-one reads nor cares about comics beyond their film adaptations anymore. If you want to attract a female audience, start writing better material. Not all consumers are brain-dead morons.

 

[jklinders]

Still going with the very silly "breastplate" I see.

Spoiler

http://lostdelights.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/wotc-dd-artwork-modifiedg.jpg

Is this really about bringing more female characters to the forefront, or is this simply a market test to see if they can make this change and keep their readership?

I know this is comic books and all but one of the very first steps to achieving a semblance of equity between male and female characters is going to have to be how you draw them and their outfits. There are a lot more male comic book heroes in practical looking gear than female so i think they are still writing eye candy for their predominantly male audience while doing a beta test on who they can change. As many others have mentioned they can, have and might still change things back.

Edit, the link works, I just can't seem to imbed it quite right.

 

[votemarvel]

Still going with the very silly "breastplate" I see.

I once had a huge argument about the boob-place armour.

Yes it is impractical. Yes it isn't realistic.

But nor is magic. or dragons. Or Orcs. Or Frost Giants. Or Skrulls. Or Kree. Or Mole Men. etc.

Why should something, which to be fair is male titillation, be the only thing that must be realistic in what is otherwise a complete fantasy.

If someone is prepared to accept every other fantastical element of a story, why is it beyond that acceptance that boob-place is effective protection in that universe.

After all. None of it is real.

 

[jklinders]

Still going with the very silly "breastplate" I see.

I once had a huge argument about the boob-place armour.

Yes it is impractical. Yes it isn't realistic.

But nor is magic. or dragons. Or Orcs. Or Frost Giants. Or Skrulls. Or Kree. Or Mole Men. etc.

Why should something, which to be fair is male titillation, be the only thing that must be realistic in what is otherwise a complete fantasy.

If someone is prepared to accept every other fantastical element of a story, why is it beyond that acceptance that boob-place is effective protection in that universe.

After all. None of it is real.

It's not just Marvel. From old school sword and sorcery, to AD&D to nearly all popular film and other visual media are guilty of the same thing. Not all of them have magic and orcs and elves.

But Marvel is trying to be "progressive." Being progressive means doing more than gender flipping a character that has been male for decades, so maybe they should try to act it in ways that actually matter.



captcha; milkshake

interesting sence of irony there captcha.

 

[MCerberus]

This is tamer and less stupid than Doc Oc Spiderman.

Marvel's going in for diversity, and they're already fully expecting and have a plan to deal with the backlash. And generally the actual readership has been cool with it.

And regular Thor's going to be back anyway. How many supers ACTUALLY remain depowered forever (also, hai new Cap, that shield's a rental)

Also, no matter how much they try, Fem!Thor is not going to be as cool as JLU Hawkgirl

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

I imagine the conversation to be as follows:

"Thor, you have been found unworthy" *Takes mjolnir*
"Thor, you have been found worthy" *Gives mjolnir to female thor.*

the inscription reads "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." so maybe it doesn't matter what her name is as she only has the power of Thor... also did everyone forget Throg

and Beta Ray Bill

Right, so this is established in continuity and does make some sense. There have been many times where Thor has been unworthy to lift his own hammer, and numerous other characters have managed to wield it (Captain America can normally hold it, Superman could sometimes hold it in some of the crossovers (although not all of them), there was that one random paramedic who handed it to Thor...)

Now, if this will be a good idea or not has yet to be seen. Moviebob actually discussed this, about how Link almost looked like a girl in the new trailer, and how people seemed to be able to accept the idea. One of his points was that there really has never been a complete gender swap for a big, franchise defining character. Race switches, yes, but gender switches?

This could be interesting, and making a woman one of the "Big Three" of the Avengers would be a nice change of pace. However, there are a lot of ways they could fuck this up, and they already have made one. If your going to appeal to women, don't just attach the same double dees you put on EVERY single comic book character. Thoriestia or whatever should have an flatter atheletic build. It makes more sense (she is carrying around a hammer forged from the center of a DYING STAR for Odin's sake) and would instantly show readers they can make a female character without huge sexualization.