Barbarian - smashy smashy smash! I'm having a pretty good time, though I'm not exactly that hard to please and I've never been overly-critical. So,...*raspberry*
Thoughts on Diablo 3
- Thread starter The_Lost_King
- Start date
.Exocet said:
there have been four methods blizzard have used to tackle the skill system thing , and all four have had major issues.
in diablo skills were ties to randomly dropped books , now this makes looting and exploration fun as hell , but it pretty much makes building a good character luck driven.
in diablo 2 the first iteration of the skill trees had no synergies. the plus side was that you could actually experiment. it took only 20 points to make most skills as powerful as they could be. by end game you could have around 4-5 fully maxed out skills to play around with , and these skills didn't even have to be related. However , because of how a skill tree works , character progression ensured that the latest and greatest (level 24 -30) skills would always be a better investment than say the level 1 skills.
blizzard then changed it to the whole synergy system , in an attempt to make low level skills viable and to make it so it was very difficult to solo hell. the problem is that now you have to spend nearly all of your skill points on synergies to make the two skills you will use viable. This destroyed any kind of variety in the game. But at the same time it made investing wisely a worthy endevour.
Now the current build of diablo 3s skills system is by far the worst , and here is why.
It has absolutely NO longevity. blizzard has traded the future of diablo3 for accessibility.
there is no reason to make more than one of any character. your stats will be the same , your skills will be the same loot is transferable and the levels are nearly static in layout.
I hate to say this , but the only reason diablo 2 is alive after 12 years is because of how restrictive the skill system was.
once i have all 5 classes , ill probably be done with diablo 3 for good.
another problem is that because of the over simplification of the skill system , the loot system has lost major depth.
the unique items in this game are a disgrace. they are quite literally shitty versions of rare items. I have gotten 30 rare gloves that all have better stats before I got even one magefist.
Blizzard has forgotten the whole reason for why diablo2's loot system was so addicting, why rune words and uniques were so desirable. BECAUSE said items actually did stuff that was UNIQUE.
what is so unique about what amounts to a RARER rare item with fixed stats that are shared with RARE items that are much more common?
and then there is the artizen system. It is completely broken. I read some where that it would literally take around 200 billion gold just to craft a level 14 gem from level 8 gems
it has not even been a month and I already don't bother picking up any kind of gem.
the black smith is just as bad , it takes an absurd amount of gold and ingredients to craft stuff.
here is an example:, rare helm takes 4000 to craft , 20 magic items worth of regents and then 5 rare regents , depending on the magic items this could be around 1000-5000 gold wasted by breaking them down. now there is not even a godo chance you will get what you want and this doesn't even factor the training.
i can get higher level rare gear with the desired stats on the auction house for as low as 5000 gold. so summarize 10 - 15 k to craft, and you might not want what u get , vs 5000 gold to get what you want.
yeah some one at blizzard id NOT think this stuff through now did they?
hold the shift button, that stops you from moving while attackingBluebellForest said:
anyway
I'm enjoying it.
i like the skill/rune system, mostly cause i've never been a fan of 'skill trees'. i like 'heres your skills for this level, no sort out wich one work for you' VS 'you need to sink X points here, here, here and HERE to get the skill you want', screw that gimme a list, lemme pick from it. also, the runes, i like how they function as enhancers or totally different skills.
class wise, i <3 my Demon Hunter, but all the other classes have a good feel about them, even the monk, which i hated in the open beta.
the gold AH it practically worthless, least far as I'm concerned, prices are to high and the Black Smith is turning out to be less helpful then i thought he'd be, leaving my to rely solely on drops, which is the only way to play a game like this anyway.
graphicly. i see no problem, nor to i see any 'WoW like' quality's to it, its brighter then the other 2 sure, but meh, i can tell what every thing is, nothing looks out of place far as effects go so i'm ok with it
To be fair, if you play on at least veteran, you NEED all those potions. I went into one of the first dungeons with 20, and came out with 0, plus I was down to 1/4 health.JadeWah said:
Also, the whole "do X% of your weapon damage" thing eventually allows you to do MORE damage than your weapon, it requires you to invest points into it though.
There is no reason to make more than one character in normal, sure, but there is in hardcore.saltychipmunk said:
As for the loot, I argue that quite on the contrary, it's game's entire customization depth. You can pick out any skill, provided you have the levels, but you also need the items to make your skills worthwhile, and that's where the hunting begins. During the entire game, you'll direct yourself towards one style of gameplay with each character, and your items will have to reflect that.
In D2, dagger necros had an ideal set, while teleport sorcs had another. In D3, there is no such thing. You craft, find, trade items to better fit how YOU want to play the skills YOU chose on that character.
The tough artisan's mechanic reflects exactly that. Those willing to put more hours into the game are rewarded with items that better reflect how they play.
Sure, you could get an item off auction house that's close to your personal ideal, or you could craft over and over until you have the exact item you want.
It's a different take on the economy, and only time will tell if it's any good.
By the way, trading accessibility for longevity is not the worst thing in the world. People who love the game will still play it, and people who want to try out the game can do so easily, without being flooded by complicated info, that Diablo vets consider common sense.
the you don't need time to tell you anything. prices for everything is dropping like a rock.Exocet said:
at the start of the game legendary items went for 100 k - a million gold.
now i see 50+ pages of these legendary items many of which go as low as 10k.
gems are even worse they crashed almost instantly.
rares are only doing well because of their variety.
as for the artizens ... they are only viable if the items they make are cheaper than the auction house items. and they are not, most stuff you can get from any artizen is 3 4 even 10 times more expensive than what you could get on the AH.
all things considered they are already dead weight existing only to remove gems from sockets and making staffs for the pink pony level.
also they are trading longevity for accessibility , you got those two words mixed up in your response.
and it is a major issue. Here is the thing , playing a game is an investment. A game needs to convince people to invest time in it. This is why rune words in diablo 2 took 2 years to find the items for. You did not need them , but they were there as something to work too.
alas here blizzard has removed alot of those incentives that are critical to longevity. hell I don't even see an expansion for this considering how they ended the game.
this game will lose 90% of its population in a year I promise
So far I'm having a blast.
Got myself a Barbarian for questing with friends, a Mage for Solo play and a Hardcore Monk for making me want to hate myself when I inevitably get my dumb ass killed.
Yes, I agree that the online only thing is a bit dopey and yes it's more that a bit annoying when the servers are full/down but these are hardly deal breakers for me. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.
If the occasional 0 day outage is enough for you to write off the game and never play it again then great. More room on the server for me.
Got myself a Barbarian for questing with friends, a Mage for Solo play and a Hardcore Monk for making me want to hate myself when I inevitably get my dumb ass killed.
Yes, I agree that the online only thing is a bit dopey and yes it's more that a bit annoying when the servers are full/down but these are hardly deal breakers for me. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.
If the occasional 0 day outage is enough for you to write off the game and never play it again then great. More room on the server for me.
I'm really enjoying the game. Playing with friends is a lot of fun, especially with the individual drops, meaning if you're the sharing / caring type, there's more chance of getting something everyone needs.
My only real legitimate complaint about the game is having to play online, even for the single player. Playing in Australia, and having to connect to a foreign server means I play with anything from 240-440 ms. I have died to the lag monster countless times, especially since I'm a Demon Hunter, in Act 3 in Nightmare, and I'm squishy.
No local servers is ridiculous
My only real legitimate complaint about the game is having to play online, even for the single player. Playing in Australia, and having to connect to a foreign server means I play with anything from 240-440 ms. I have died to the lag monster countless times, especially since I'm a Demon Hunter, in Act 3 in Nightmare, and I'm squishy.
No local servers is ridiculous
I did play on Veteran with all four characters.Syzygy23 said:
And having to invest 15 points into one skill early to make it worthwhile is bad in my opinion. So I'd rather auto-attack and hoard my points.
D3 making health globes on drops is a huge improvement then dodging monster while waiting for the cooldown for potions to wear off.
Well, I did enjoy it when I got a legendary cannon and auto-attacked with aoe and stun (all cannons do that regardless of quality) my way through the rest of the beta.
Because the economy in a game that's not even a week old is already supposed to be stable?saltychipmunk said:
Like every single person requesting changes after something is released: give it time to develop, then objectively assess the situation.
I did not such thing. Maybe I wasn't clear, so let me make my point again. Those who love the game will still be playing in a couple years, and those who want to try the game won't be intimidated.saltychipmunk said:
If you want to have a conversation, please understand what I'm trying to save, instead of thinking I'm an idiot and made a mistake. It's rude.
Remind me when those rune words were released, since they are the cornerstone of your argument. Was it on the release disk of vanilla Diablo 2? Maybe in a patch later on.....Ah, no. It was in an expansion pack, released an entire year after. Not present 5 days after release.saltychipmunk said:
As for is there is the possibility of another? Yes, I can think of one possibility.
Longevity doesn't reside in finding runes, or buying them from a Chinese gold farmer, so you can pvp, or run Baal faster.
It's in the co-op, where I can assure you that doing a hardcore inferno run will take time and dedication. There's more to Diablo 3's longevity than just items, something D2 fails to accomplish.
All in all, you are asking me to trust the fact that since Diablo 3 is different than Diablo 2, it's bad and won't last long. Well, you can think what you like, but ultimately, I'm adapting to change and liking it, and not angry over the fact that I got a different game, not just Diablo 2 with 2012 make-up.
Diablo 2 was my first real gaming experience, so I had high hopes for Diablo 3. I've been enjoying the gameplay -- the most important part -- but the story is so terrible that it detracts from the whole experience. I know that Diablo isn't about story at all, but rather about the sexy, sexy loot, but the story isn't just lackluster -- it's so bad that it's almost painful. There are too many reasons to list, so I'll just leave it there.
Anyone else feel this way?
Anyone else feel this way?
As soon as I entered Act 2, I am very happy with the customization. I am also glad I found out about elective mode, I am looking forward to trying it out when I next log on.
I want to know first though, in late game, will rare items be the ones that end up being the most desirable (in general, that is. rares had generally the best stats, while uniques and certain set items might have that certain thing to make you want to use it, generally as a cheap alternative)? Because that was one of the main things that made me love classic D2. There was no such thing as a 'perfect' item, and the items would just get better and better the longer the ladder season lasted.
I had no investment within the plot or voice acting, so I am guessing it's for the better eh?
I want to know first though, in late game, will rare items be the ones that end up being the most desirable (in general, that is. rares had generally the best stats, while uniques and certain set items might have that certain thing to make you want to use it, generally as a cheap alternative)? Because that was one of the main things that made me love classic D2. There was no such thing as a 'perfect' item, and the items would just get better and better the longer the ladder season lasted.
Every time I am in a co-op game, even if I want to listen to the dialogue, someone else is skipping it.KatML said:
I had no investment within the plot or voice acting, so I am guessing it's for the better eh?
Lovely Error 33 for now...
I'm part way through Act 3 and the whole chapter is quite well paced; obviously reminiscent of D2 Act 5. Wading through 30 mobs at a time is pretty cool. I'm still unsure of the difficulty. I died a couple of times to the suicide bomber things. First time was omglolwtf, second time it was more like "eh, should've seen that coming". Third time and beyond I was ready with a relevant defensive ability and they haven't killed me again yet. I have to wonder how much the ability system saps the difficulty away. At this point in D2 you'd still be using the more mundane abilities and there wasn't any semblance of strategy. At this point in D3 I've got all kinds of CC, teleports, invincibility cooldowns, heals etc. that can help me deal with what's thrown at me. If I was just spamming one ability, like you would be doing in D2, then I'm sure it would be more difficult. On the other hand the bosses are a disappointment. The end of act bosses aren't so bad, but most of the mini-bosses are way too easy.
I'm part way through Act 3 and the whole chapter is quite well paced; obviously reminiscent of D2 Act 5. Wading through 30 mobs at a time is pretty cool. I'm still unsure of the difficulty. I died a couple of times to the suicide bomber things. First time was omglolwtf, second time it was more like "eh, should've seen that coming". Third time and beyond I was ready with a relevant defensive ability and they haven't killed me again yet. I have to wonder how much the ability system saps the difficulty away. At this point in D2 you'd still be using the more mundane abilities and there wasn't any semblance of strategy. At this point in D3 I've got all kinds of CC, teleports, invincibility cooldowns, heals etc. that can help me deal with what's thrown at me. If I was just spamming one ability, like you would be doing in D2, then I'm sure it would be more difficult. On the other hand the bosses are a disappointment. The end of act bosses aren't so bad, but most of the mini-bosses are way too easy.
But why? This is whats confusing me a great deal.5ilver said:
If we all take our nostalgia goggles off for a few minutes (because I loved D2 aswell) and take a good look at D2, what did it really have?
It had a skill system in which you could only ever use TWO skills which you just spammed aimlessly at enemies, if you tried to spec into more than two skills they were terrible. This basically made the combat "hit when you have health, run away when you don't".
Once you had played through once, for all of your other characters you just skipped through the majority of the content by going "Tristram --> Andariel --> Sewers --> Arcane Sanctuary --> Duriel --> Travincal --> Mephisto --> Diablo --> Ancients --> 50000 BAAL RUNS", which was pretty boring to do even once, because you could do that in about 2 hours and get a level 40 character, then rinse and repeat for nightmare and hell.
The only thing that kept people coming back to D2 was loot farming, which only ever made you feel good when you got good loot, but there wasn't really a way to use it other than PvP, which was the same 2 buttons being used.
Diablo 3 actually has combat, which in my opinion makes it so much better than 2, although I don't agree with them simplifying the stats and not giving you any form of talent tree, the game is actually fun to play rather than just maximizing your character's stats and gears constantly.
Also for those saying it looks like WoW, im pretty sure if you tried to "modernize" D2's graphics, it would look a lot like WoW, just a bit more dark and gritty. The only reason it seems different is because it has that really retro and awesome feel of the transition between 2d and 3d games.
As soon as the servers came back up I went and did the Act 3 boss. That was a bit of a disappointment. My strategy was as follows: hold left mouse button over boss, when low on health, click one of four healing buttons. Done. Ok, on to Act 4 then. A little on the short side, but quite a nice level I thought. Then comes the boss. Same strategy = down first time. A bit of an anti-climax if I'm honest. Meh, I guess that could do with an adjustment.
First steps on the next difficulty have been a bit better. Nothing's really that difficult so far, but even the basic mobs have significantly more health and it makes the combat a bit meatier.
First steps on the next difficulty have been a bit better. Nothing's really that difficult so far, but even the basic mobs have significantly more health and it makes the combat a bit meatier.