Three Protagonists Taking Over Los Santos in GTA V

[Candidus]

Maybe I am just a little bit too damaged by gender studies, but my first reaction was "three protagonists and not one of them is a woman?". I suppose that maybe I am just a bit spoiled by Saint's Row 2 and 3 that allowed you to pick gender freely and even adapted dialogue and interactions with NPCs to fit your gender (and even which of the six different personalities you choose in SR3).

My reaction also. I was thinking, from left to right: "OK, so we have white guy, spicy white guy, white guy. White tee, off-white button shirt, white polo shirt. If they're all pretty tough customers with chequered but not irredeemable pasts, I'll go ahead and say that splitting one protagonist into the same three was a pointless exercise."

I feel double bluffed. When I heard that three protagonists were announced, I leant over toward my room-mate and said "That'll be a white guy, a black guy and a hispanic girl then", which is an awful stereotype I'd have complained about also.

I didn't pick up GTA IV. At first, because I wanted it on PC. When it came out on PC, it came with SecuROM. So I passed. Looks like I'm going to pass GTA V no matter what. Dull, dull, dull.

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

Seems to me that they are imitating Yakuza.

That said, I'm less excited about the idea than I probably should be, I considered GTA IV a bit of a disappointment especially compared to SR 2 and even 3. To me it seems like a choice that is going to lead the game in an increasingly cinematic, and less sandbox-ish type enviroment, probably a situation where your forced to switch between characters at pivotal moments to show things from a differant perspective, and the various "gating" is going to be accomplished that way, with limited enviroments for each character at any given time.

I could be wrong about that, but I can't help but think "GTA V: Yakuza Clone" when I hear this.

Any way it goes, we'll see what happens. It's one of those cases where I'll definatly be holding back to see the reaction rather than racing out to pre-order a CE. To be honest the whole lockbox/dufflebag CE for GTA4 was very nice though, I actually thought the packaging was cooler than the game, though I must admit the bag was pretty flimsy (ripped when I tried to use it on a vacation, it wasn't even being treated roughly).

...Or they could just be progressing with the Impossible Trinity theme they explored in the Grand Theft Auto IV.

 

[Candidus]

that guy is obviously not white

He looks white standing in the middle of the gameinformer cover, but I grant you that his other promotional image is less ambiguous. Nevertheless, still not much impressed.

 

[maninahat]

Maybe I am just a little bit too damaged by gender studies, but my first reaction was "three protagonists and not one of them is a woman?". I suppose that maybe I am just a bit spoiled by Saint's Row 2 and 3 that allowed you to pick gender freely and even adapted dialogue and interactions with NPCs to fit your gender (and even which of the six different personalities you choose in SR3).

Still, this could be awesome as long as Rockstar get their act together and decide whatever they want a narrative driven game or a sandbox game.

There's this poster of all the GTA characters (10 of them) chilling out together in one room. There is a bit of ethnic diversity, but no female protagonists. None.

I'm concerned that they're just flogging the same dead old horse. Niko Bellic was a great character - one of the best in videogaming history - but his missions were very tired. GTA games always seem to have a "big bank job" mission. And an "assassinate this guy with a sniper rifle" mission. And a "drug deal which goes sour" mission. I have my doubts that they'll have anything fresh in this one.

 

[Worgen]

It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in at all, hell you could make a woman be ex military or an ex con, I've got a back story for her right here.
Shes an ex-Israeli solder who moves to the states to help her sister get out of some trouble she got into. See, bam, compelling.

Ex-con females wouldn't be in the same prison as males. Ex-military women wouldn't be in the same unit as men (assuming front line). That is why I used those examples, they are one of the few situations where genders are truly separated in western society.

Perhaps that's not why they don't have a female main character, but people seem to be making the rather childish assumption that there is some kind of misogyny going on, when there are countless perfectly valid reasons for why they might not want to.

snip.

why would it be worse? its not hard..no seriously it would NOT be hard, all it requires is balls on the part of the dev, people need to get over this phobia hey have..I understand why (laracroft) but in the end you have to ignore those people

it just gets annoying when I feel people keep making up excuses...there are no excuses..not anymore

how "realistic" is GTA suposed to be anyway?

I get quite frustrated conversing with you because you never actually seem to read what I say when you quote me.

I said it'd be worse to do it "for the sake of doing it" because it is more sexist than not including female protagonists. Like hiring a person not because they are any good at the job, but because you "have to have a minimum amount of women in your work force". It's insulting to women to be included, just to tick a box, as opposed to them genuinely having a reason to be there.

I did not say it'd be difficult, so I have no idea where the fuck that came from.

What phobia? GTA4 featured the ability to play as a female in multiplayer, and San Andreas had a female character for co-op. It's not a phobia, they just decided they wanted them to be guys.

It's not an "excuse" it's called a reason. Game developers can create whatever characters they want to do. If they did not feel that a female protagonist would fit into the story they wanted to create, then people can get the fuck over it.

It isn't supposed to be realistic, but it is set in a world based upon reality. My ideas were suggestions for possible reasons for why they wouldn't have a female main character, I know as little about it as you do, I was making a suggestion.

It would be nice for them to include a female protagonist, but they have decided not to, that's their decision. If the first assumption people are going to make is that it is due to some kind of anti-female attitude, then they need to grow up.

I can only assume that I will get bombarded with accusations of not wanting female protagonists so here we go:

I like female protagonists, some of my favourite games have them, I actually enjoy playing as a female in Fallout, Dragon Age and Mass Effect more than a male. In fact, I'd say 4/5 of the time, if I get the choice between the two, I pick female.

Why do you think I used the example of an Israeli women, that military is integrated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_military#Women

 

[DeManix]

Maybe I am just a little bit too damaged by gender studies, but my first reaction was "three protagonists and not one of them is a woman?". I suppose that maybe I am just a bit spoiled by Saint's Row 2 and 3 that allowed you to pick gender freely and even adapted dialogue and interactions with NPCs to fit your gender (and even which of the six different personalities you choose in SR3).

My reaction also. I was thinking, from left to right: "OK, so we have white guy, spicy white guy, white guy. White tee, off-white button shirt, white polo shirt. If they're all pretty tough customers with chequered but not irredeemable pasts, I'll go ahead and say that splitting one protagonist into the same three was a pointless exercise."

I feel double bluffed. When I heard that three protagonists were announced, I leant over toward my room-mate and said "That'll be a white guy, a black guy and a hispanic girl then", which is an awful stereotype I'd have complained about also.

I didn't pick up GTA IV. At first, because I wanted it on PC. When it came out on PC, it came with SecuROM. So I passed. Looks like I'm going to pass GTA V no matter what. Dull, dull, dull.

I'm guessing you haven't read the Gameinformer article then? They pretty clearly establish that all 3 characters are extremely different to each other in their actions/background/outlook on life etc. There's seems to be absoloutely no 'one character split into three' here at all.

I'm suprised at how many people there are complaining about 'lack of diversity'. Sure, there's a point to be had that the majority of Rockstar leads are similar, but I'd certainly rather have well written and interesting characters who share some traits than a group of wildly different characters who aren't interesting. And these 3 main characters aren't particuarly similar at all, apart from having homicidal sociopathic tendencies and *shock horror* all being male. I'd really rather not have a female lead character just for the sake of having one in GTA, when the time is right for a female lead, there will be a female lead, but the story they've written for V happens to call for 3 male lead characters. That doesn't automatically mean they're all the same character, and that the game will be "dull, dull, dull."

Obviously time will tell if these 3 characters are any good, but you can't argue that they aren't all at least fairly different from each other, or that shoehorning in a character that pushes the boat out a bit more would be any better.

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

I'm a bit disappointed really. It's just three brown-haired dudes, same as always.

Agreed, a blonde would be extremely avant garde.
Oh God... a ginger would be absolutely mindblowing.

Serious note; what came to my mind was "ok, a black, white and latin guy... demographic pandering much?".

Why do people always assume the middle one is black?

Its two Hispanics and a white guy. Just because a person's skin is dark doesn't mean he is black.

He looks like Tracy Morgan, you out yo mind man.
If you are trying to say he's hispanic because he dresses like a cholo, that makes you racist.

I had an Italian friend that did the same. High socks doesn't make you Mexican.

no, it doesn't. High socks can be construed as a gang sign, though I was never sure which gang. Its still used in California, but its not an overly blatant sign.

Besides, I am Hispanic. I knew Cholos. Practically everyone did at one point. I knew actual gang members. How do you think I know all this?

Not every person on the Escapist is a white European from a gated community.

Old school 1990s Cholo clothes? Being worn by a "black guy?" Even though he looks much lighter in the actual screen shots?

GTA uses overly colorful cartoons. Don't overly rely on them especially when they give bad angles on the faces.

GTA games are always top quality, but I do hope that we will stick with one character, rather than having episodic changes of protagonists.

I never really enjoy changing characters mid-campaign. Hopefully this will mean co-op.

Three protagonists and they still couldn't fit in a female, kinda lame.

All male? That is a shame. Still it looks good.

It is a shame, but then again, having a female protagonist just to please people would be worse. It'd just be box ticking. If they didn't think a female protagonist would work in the story, then it's better off not to have one, as opposed to have one for the sake of it.

It's possible that the characters are needed to be males. They could be ex-cons or ex-squad mates from the military or something, where they all share a past.

It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in at all, hell you could make a woman be ex military or an ex con, I've got a back story for her right here.
Shes an ex-Israeli solder who moves to the states to help her sister get out of some trouble she got into. See, bam, compelling.

Oh right replace Hispanics with most likely white women. That's totally better. Because we all know white people never get enough coverage about how hard it is to to be white in a white person's world.

That totally wouldn't come off badly to minorities or the general public. /sarcasm overload

Give Rockstar the chance to give Hispanics a turn, they haven't gotten their turn yet. Its not like its the last GTA to ever be made. Stop freaking out over nothing.

What the hell are you talking about? Is there a hispanic woman you play as in the game?
From the article picture it looks like its two white guys and a black guy. Anyway, I was just giving an example of a way you could have a women who is ex military since having some kind of back story that would show they have knowledge of weapons is very important in gta games. >.> Anyway, one of the few military's I know of that is integrated with woman as front line troops is Israel, so I went with them, I don't know of any hispanic counties with an integrated military.

My point is: just be happy it isn't a middle aged white guy on a quest that involved 99% other middle aged white guys.

secondly, the right guy is half hispanic. You can still be light skinned and hispanic, there is no needed "darkness" to be Hispanic. Just genetics. I seen Hispanics that look like him constantly.

The middle is also Hispanic, how you confuse him with a black guy is mind boggling unless you went the "dark skin = black." I also know a lot of Hispanics who look like this guy.

The only one who isn't obviously Hispanic is the left one.

Hispanic women is a hard thing to do. You have a lot of culture to apply to her. A lot of mentalities that you must get right. Hispanic men are much freer, but has a faint link to the same mentalities the women follow. I doubt any writer would want to go down that route, especially since most of it is unknown to the majority of the player base.

Most likely it end being called sexist.

They still look white to me and the middle still looks black, I suppose its possible that one of them is a light skinned hispanic but I would be surprised as hell if the middle one isn't black.

I'll bet if they did put a hispanic woman in the game she would end up being more of a stereotype even if they didn't intend it. The hot blooded hispanic woman is second only to the hispanic maid in media and to be a character in gta you pretty much have to be hot blooded.

You can tell he is Hispanic simply by how he is dressed.

That clothing itself is a old school 90s throwback, fashion only popular in Hispanic circles. Its also popular with the old school Cholos. You only see this kind of stuff in Hispanic ghettos and Downtown-East LA. Hispanic neighborhoods with Hispanic gangs.

Dressing like that is not a good idea for anyone not affiliated with a gang. That's how you get shot. Black and Hispanic gangs do have bad blood between them, anyone that dresses like or acts like a cholo is a target. Regardless if they were real gang members or not.

Since the gangs are race based, it would make little sense for a black guy to dress like an old school cholo.

Since when has promotional material cared about anything but looking "cool"?

Since when is dressing like you walked out of 1992 cool?

A black guy dressing like a Hispanic gang makes no sense, which means he must be Hispanic. That's the original question, not whether it was cool.

Its like a white guy dressing like a black gang member with black face. It makes no sense. A white guy trying that would be shot on day one. The way the black guy dressing like a cholo would.

The question was whether he was black or not. My argument was that if he was black it would make as much sense as black face white guy.

See, the problem with that is that your assuming they cared. Chances are who ever did the art for it was just looking though designs of clothing that gang members tended to wear and though it looked cool and threw it on the characters.

Yeah, clothes old school gang members wear from 20 years ago. Almost iconic clothes at that. As if they can somehow mix that up.

If Rockstar took the time to look up other Iconic facets and look of California, I doubt they would be lazy enough to just throw "gang member clothes" onto a main character.

You are talking about a company that almost obsessively adds detail, even down the dating sites and a rumored "vibrant economy." A company that spends over 100 million dollars for a vast, detailed game.

I doubt rockstar is that lazy, or cash strapped.

This isn't stuff that is in the game, this is promotional art. There is a difference, plus given the customization you usually have with the outfits you were in gta games, chances are you can wear whatever the hell you want, including gang clothes.

Promotional art is meant to give a feel for its characters and personality. A feel for what and who the character is. Its a stereotype drawing. While the clothing may or may not be in the game, its the iconography that gives you a feel for its personality. That's the entire point for GTA's art.

GTA always did it in a stereotypical way. I mean, look at the loading screen of GTA IV's gay character. Rockstar was never known for a non-stereotypical over the top character.

Does it matter if its in the game? No, not really. Does customization matter? No, since personality can't be customized in GTA. The art is there to convey a character's personality and role. Nothing else.

All of the character's artwork pointed to the stereotypical cholo. Its the same no matter what game.

Does it matter how nice Niko dresses? No, he will always be an eastern European who talks about the "old country."

Yeah, no. Pretty sure he's supposed to be black dude.

That's a stereotypical California cholo. Anyone who has ever been to California or even played San Andreas would know that. Hell, anyone on the west coast would know that.

Besides, the screenshot itself shows he looks nothing like the promotional artwork because of the angle of his face and limitations on the artstyle. The main fault is the artist tries to capture the shininess of the character model. The artwork ended up making him darker with shading and shadows to make the shininess apparent.

If anything, his in game skin color closely resembles his left arm.

Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one then. Luckily I'm the obsessive sort who's going to remember how sure you are of this one and drag this shit out once Rockstar releases more info inevitably confirming I'm right.

In case you didn't remember, I'm going to quote you so you get a message in your inbox and drag this shit out now that Rockstar has released the new trailer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.393818-GTA-V-Trailer-Offers-A-Look-at-Antihero-Trio].

I'm a bit disappointed really. It's just three brown-haired dudes, same as always.

Agreed, a blonde would be extremely avant garde.
Oh God... a ginger would be absolutely mindblowing.

Serious note; what came to my mind was "ok, a black, white and latin guy... demographic pandering much?".

Why do people always assume the middle one is black?

Its two Hispanics and a white guy. Just because a person's skin is dark doesn't mean he is black.

He looks like Tracy Morgan, you out yo mind man.
If you are trying to say he's hispanic because he dresses like a cholo, that makes you racist.

I had an Italian friend that did the same. High socks doesn't make you Mexican.

no, it doesn't. High socks can be construed as a gang sign, though I was never sure which gang. Its still used in California, but its not an overly blatant sign.

Besides, I am Hispanic. I knew Cholos. Practically everyone did at one point. I knew actual gang members. How do you think I know all this?

Not every person on the Escapist is a white European from a gated community.

Old school 1990s Cholo clothes? Being worn by a "black guy?" Even though he looks much lighter in the actual screen shots?

GTA uses overly colorful cartoons. Don't overly rely on them especially when they give bad angles on the faces.

GTA games are always top quality, but I do hope that we will stick with one character, rather than having episodic changes of protagonists.

I never really enjoy changing characters mid-campaign. Hopefully this will mean co-op.

Three protagonists and they still couldn't fit in a female, kinda lame.

All male? That is a shame. Still it looks good.

It is a shame, but then again, having a female protagonist just to please people would be worse. It'd just be box ticking. If they didn't think a female protagonist would work in the story, then it's better off not to have one, as opposed to have one for the sake of it.

It's possible that the characters are needed to be males. They could be ex-cons or ex-squad mates from the military or something, where they all share a past.

It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in at all, hell you could make a woman be ex military or an ex con, I've got a back story for her right here.
Shes an ex-Israeli solder who moves to the states to help her sister get out of some trouble she got into. See, bam, compelling.

Oh right replace Hispanics with most likely white women. That's totally better. Because we all know white people never get enough coverage about how hard it is to to be white in a white person's world.

That totally wouldn't come off badly to minorities or the general public. /sarcasm overload

Give Rockstar the chance to give Hispanics a turn, they haven't gotten their turn yet. Its not like its the last GTA to ever be made. Stop freaking out over nothing.

What the hell are you talking about? Is there a hispanic woman you play as in the game?
From the article picture it looks like its two white guys and a black guy. Anyway, I was just giving an example of a way you could have a women who is ex military since having some kind of back story that would show they have knowledge of weapons is very important in gta games. >.> Anyway, one of the few military's I know of that is integrated with woman as front line troops is Israel, so I went with them, I don't know of any hispanic counties with an integrated military.

My point is: just be happy it isn't a middle aged white guy on a quest that involved 99% other middle aged white guys.

secondly, the right guy is half hispanic. You can still be light skinned and hispanic, there is no needed "darkness" to be Hispanic. Just genetics. I seen Hispanics that look like him constantly.

The middle is also Hispanic, how you confuse him with a black guy is mind boggling unless you went the "dark skin = black." I also know a lot of Hispanics who look like this guy.

The only one who isn't obviously Hispanic is the left one.

Hispanic women is a hard thing to do. You have a lot of culture to apply to her. A lot of mentalities that you must get right. Hispanic men are much freer, but has a faint link to the same mentalities the women follow. I doubt any writer would want to go down that route, especially since most of it is unknown to the majority of the player base.

Most likely it end being called sexist.

They still look white to me and the middle still looks black, I suppose its possible that one of them is a light skinned hispanic but I would be surprised as hell if the middle one isn't black.

I'll bet if they did put a hispanic woman in the game she would end up being more of a stereotype even if they didn't intend it. The hot blooded hispanic woman is second only to the hispanic maid in media and to be a character in gta you pretty much have to be hot blooded.

You can tell he is Hispanic simply by how he is dressed.

That clothing itself is a old school 90s throwback, fashion only popular in Hispanic circles. Its also popular with the old school Cholos. You only see this kind of stuff in Hispanic ghettos and Downtown-East LA. Hispanic neighborhoods with Hispanic gangs.

Dressing like that is not a good idea for anyone not affiliated with a gang. That's how you get shot. Black and Hispanic gangs do have bad blood between them, anyone that dresses like or acts like a cholo is a target. Regardless if they were real gang members or not.

Since the gangs are race based, it would make little sense for a black guy to dress like an old school cholo.

Since when has promotional material cared about anything but looking "cool"?

Since when is dressing like you walked out of 1992 cool?

A black guy dressing like a Hispanic gang makes no sense, which means he must be Hispanic. That's the original question, not whether it was cool.

Its like a white guy dressing like a black gang member with black face. It makes no sense. A white guy trying that would be shot on day one. The way the black guy dressing like a cholo would.

The question was whether he was black or not. My argument was that if he was black it would make as much sense as black face white guy.

See, the problem with that is that your assuming they cared. Chances are who ever did the art for it was just looking though designs of clothing that gang members tended to wear and though it looked cool and threw it on the characters.

Yeah, clothes old school gang members wear from 20 years ago. Almost iconic clothes at that. As if they can somehow mix that up.

If Rockstar took the time to look up other Iconic facets and look of California, I doubt they would be lazy enough to just throw "gang member clothes" onto a main character.

You are talking about a company that almost obsessively adds detail, even down the dating sites and a rumored "vibrant economy." A company that spends over 100 million dollars for a vast, detailed game.

I doubt rockstar is that lazy, or cash strapped.

This isn't stuff that is in the game, this is promotional art. There is a difference, plus given the customization you usually have with the outfits you were in gta games, chances are you can wear whatever the hell you want, including gang clothes.

Promotional art is meant to give a feel for its characters and personality. A feel for what and who the character is. Its a stereotype drawing. While the clothing may or may not be in the game, its the iconography that gives you a feel for its personality. That's the entire point for GTA's art.

GTA always did it in a stereotypical way. I mean, look at the loading screen of GTA IV's gay character. Rockstar was never known for a non-stereotypical over the top character.

Does it matter if its in the game? No, not really. Does customization matter? No, since personality can't be customized in GTA. The art is there to convey a character's personality and role. Nothing else.

All of the character's artwork pointed to the stereotypical cholo. Its the same no matter what game.

Does it matter how nice Niko dresses? No, he will always be an eastern European who talks about the "old country."

The more I look at that pic, the more I'm convinced your seeing something that isn't there. Why don't you point out exactly what it is about the clothes that not only make you think gang, but also make you think they are all hispanic, aside from which ever white guy is the white guy.

I said two are Hispanic. Not all 3. I said 2 because a leak said one of the characters is half Hispanic, which is the old guy. This is believable since Hispanics can be either very light or very dark.

The middle guy itself resembles a cholo the most. Cholos are not that hard to spot. Its basically a game of "spot the gang member."

stereotypically, in media and public perception, cholos look like this:

The middle looks like a stereotypical cholo than anything else.

Well, your wrong, the middle guy is going to turn out being black, its possible of the two white guys will be half hispanic but Ill bet we are dealing with two white guys. As for their outfits, none of them look "cholo" at all.

On the left we got a guy in a tshirt with jeans or slacks, on the left we got a guy with a button collar shirt in blue jeans and in the middle we got a guy wearing slacks with a long sleeve shirt under a button up short sleeve shirt. These all look like the usual California fashions if not the fashion pretty much wherever. So unless you can come up with some kind of good argument here, I'm not convinced and I'm done here.

no, I can guarantee you he will be Hispanic when they start giving more information. I can recognize California stereotypes. They shouldn't be that hard to spot unless you live in the south or East Coast.

Besides, he has other artwork. Wifebeater with shorts and a big viscous dog? Classic cholo California stereotype. Not to mention the artwork makes him look darker than he is because the artist had a thing for cartoon shading.

No other black character in the series looks like he does, a broad face doesn't mean he is black. In fact, his face lacks the racial facial archetypes rockstar usually uses. His face resembles a Hispanic facial archetype than anything else. There are still broad faced Hispanics with caramel skin.

And considering Los Angeles makes 47% of the Hispanic population of the entire state, it makes more statistical sense for him to be Hispanic. Hell, half of Los Angeles has over 50% Hispanic population in each district. Some even go as high as 97%.

Guess you were wrong.

 

[Ham Blitz]

Aw man, the mention of coop in this article gets my hopes slightly up, but I doubt that will be the case. My only hope is that if they have those multiplayer coop missions that they had in the last game, they allow you to do the ranked versions with a party of your chosen friends instead of random people only. I know that is as minor thing but I wanted to unlock more clothes and ranked matches were the only way.

 

[AgentNein]

I'm a bit disappointed really. It's just three brown-haired dudes, same as always.

Agreed, a blonde would be extremely avant garde.
Oh God... a ginger would be absolutely mindblowing.

Serious note; what came to my mind was "ok, a black, white and latin guy... demographic pandering much?".

Why do people always assume the middle one is black?

Its two Hispanics and a white guy. Just because a person's skin is dark doesn't mean he is black.

He looks like Tracy Morgan, you out yo mind man.
If you are trying to say he's hispanic because he dresses like a cholo, that makes you racist.

I had an Italian friend that did the same. High socks doesn't make you Mexican.

no, it doesn't. High socks can be construed as a gang sign, though I was never sure which gang. Its still used in California, but its not an overly blatant sign.

Besides, I am Hispanic. I knew Cholos. Practically everyone did at one point. I knew actual gang members. How do you think I know all this?

Not every person on the Escapist is a white European from a gated community.

Old school 1990s Cholo clothes? Being worn by a "black guy?" Even though he looks much lighter in the actual screen shots?

GTA uses overly colorful cartoons. Don't overly rely on them especially when they give bad angles on the faces.

GTA games are always top quality, but I do hope that we will stick with one character, rather than having episodic changes of protagonists.

I never really enjoy changing characters mid-campaign. Hopefully this will mean co-op.

Three protagonists and they still couldn't fit in a female, kinda lame.

All male? That is a shame. Still it looks good.

It is a shame, but then again, having a female protagonist just to please people would be worse. It'd just be box ticking. If they didn't think a female protagonist would work in the story, then it's better off not to have one, as opposed to have one for the sake of it.

It's possible that the characters are needed to be males. They could be ex-cons or ex-squad mates from the military or something, where they all share a past.

It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in at all, hell you could make a woman be ex military or an ex con, I've got a back story for her right here.
Shes an ex-Israeli solder who moves to the states to help her sister get out of some trouble she got into. See, bam, compelling.

Oh right replace Hispanics with most likely white women. That's totally better. Because we all know white people never get enough coverage about how hard it is to to be white in a white person's world.

That totally wouldn't come off badly to minorities or the general public. /sarcasm overload

Give Rockstar the chance to give Hispanics a turn, they haven't gotten their turn yet. Its not like its the last GTA to ever be made. Stop freaking out over nothing.

What the hell are you talking about? Is there a hispanic woman you play as in the game?
From the article picture it looks like its two white guys and a black guy. Anyway, I was just giving an example of a way you could have a women who is ex military since having some kind of back story that would show they have knowledge of weapons is very important in gta games. >.> Anyway, one of the few military's I know of that is integrated with woman as front line troops is Israel, so I went with them, I don't know of any hispanic counties with an integrated military.

My point is: just be happy it isn't a middle aged white guy on a quest that involved 99% other middle aged white guys.

secondly, the right guy is half hispanic. You can still be light skinned and hispanic, there is no needed "darkness" to be Hispanic. Just genetics. I seen Hispanics that look like him constantly.

The middle is also Hispanic, how you confuse him with a black guy is mind boggling unless you went the "dark skin = black." I also know a lot of Hispanics who look like this guy.

The only one who isn't obviously Hispanic is the left one.

Hispanic women is a hard thing to do. You have a lot of culture to apply to her. A lot of mentalities that you must get right. Hispanic men are much freer, but has a faint link to the same mentalities the women follow. I doubt any writer would want to go down that route, especially since most of it is unknown to the majority of the player base.

Most likely it end being called sexist.

They still look white to me and the middle still looks black, I suppose its possible that one of them is a light skinned hispanic but I would be surprised as hell if the middle one isn't black.

I'll bet if they did put a hispanic woman in the game she would end up being more of a stereotype even if they didn't intend it. The hot blooded hispanic woman is second only to the hispanic maid in media and to be a character in gta you pretty much have to be hot blooded.

You can tell he is Hispanic simply by how he is dressed.

That clothing itself is a old school 90s throwback, fashion only popular in Hispanic circles. Its also popular with the old school Cholos. You only see this kind of stuff in Hispanic ghettos and Downtown-East LA. Hispanic neighborhoods with Hispanic gangs.

Dressing like that is not a good idea for anyone not affiliated with a gang. That's how you get shot. Black and Hispanic gangs do have bad blood between them, anyone that dresses like or acts like a cholo is a target. Regardless if they were real gang members or not.

Since the gangs are race based, it would make little sense for a black guy to dress like an old school cholo.

Since when has promotional material cared about anything but looking "cool"?

Since when is dressing like you walked out of 1992 cool?

A black guy dressing like a Hispanic gang makes no sense, which means he must be Hispanic. That's the original question, not whether it was cool.

Its like a white guy dressing like a black gang member with black face. It makes no sense. A white guy trying that would be shot on day one. The way the black guy dressing like a cholo would.

The question was whether he was black or not. My argument was that if he was black it would make as much sense as black face white guy.

See, the problem with that is that your assuming they cared. Chances are who ever did the art for it was just looking though designs of clothing that gang members tended to wear and though it looked cool and threw it on the characters.

Yeah, clothes old school gang members wear from 20 years ago. Almost iconic clothes at that. As if they can somehow mix that up.

If Rockstar took the time to look up other Iconic facets and look of California, I doubt they would be lazy enough to just throw "gang member clothes" onto a main character.

You are talking about a company that almost obsessively adds detail, even down the dating sites and a rumored "vibrant economy." A company that spends over 100 million dollars for a vast, detailed game.

I doubt rockstar is that lazy, or cash strapped.

This isn't stuff that is in the game, this is promotional art. There is a difference, plus given the customization you usually have with the outfits you were in gta games, chances are you can wear whatever the hell you want, including gang clothes.

Promotional art is meant to give a feel for its characters and personality. A feel for what and who the character is. Its a stereotype drawing. While the clothing may or may not be in the game, its the iconography that gives you a feel for its personality. That's the entire point for GTA's art.

GTA always did it in a stereotypical way. I mean, look at the loading screen of GTA IV's gay character. Rockstar was never known for a non-stereotypical over the top character.

Does it matter if its in the game? No, not really. Does customization matter? No, since personality can't be customized in GTA. The art is there to convey a character's personality and role. Nothing else.

All of the character's artwork pointed to the stereotypical cholo. Its the same no matter what game.

Does it matter how nice Niko dresses? No, he will always be an eastern European who talks about the "old country."

Yeah, no. Pretty sure he's supposed to be black dude.

That's a stereotypical California cholo. Anyone who has ever been to California or even played San Andreas would know that. Hell, anyone on the west coast would know that.

Besides, the screenshot itself shows he looks nothing like the promotional artwork because of the angle of his face and limitations on the artstyle. The main fault is the artist tries to capture the shininess of the character model. The artwork ended up making him darker with shading and shadows to make the shininess apparent.

If anything, his in game skin color closely resembles his left arm.

Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one then. Luckily I'm the obsessive sort who's going to remember how sure you are of this one and drag this shit out once Rockstar releases more info inevitably confirming I'm right.

In case you didn't remember, I'm going to quote you so you get a message in your inbox and drag this shit out now that Rockstar has released the new trailer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.393818-GTA-V-Trailer-Offers-A-Look-at-Antihero-Trio].

I'm a bit disappointed really. It's just three brown-haired dudes, same as always.

Agreed, a blonde would be extremely avant garde.
Oh God... a ginger would be absolutely mindblowing.

Serious note; what came to my mind was "ok, a black, white and latin guy... demographic pandering much?".

Why do people always assume the middle one is black?

Its two Hispanics and a white guy. Just because a person's skin is dark doesn't mean he is black.

He looks like Tracy Morgan, you out yo mind man.
If you are trying to say he's hispanic because he dresses like a cholo, that makes you racist.

I had an Italian friend that did the same. High socks doesn't make you Mexican.

no, it doesn't. High socks can be construed as a gang sign, though I was never sure which gang. Its still used in California, but its not an overly blatant sign.

Besides, I am Hispanic. I knew Cholos. Practically everyone did at one point. I knew actual gang members. How do you think I know all this?

Not every person on the Escapist is a white European from a gated community.

Old school 1990s Cholo clothes? Being worn by a "black guy?" Even though he looks much lighter in the actual screen shots?

GTA uses overly colorful cartoons. Don't overly rely on them especially when they give bad angles on the faces.

GTA games are always top quality, but I do hope that we will stick with one character, rather than having episodic changes of protagonists.

I never really enjoy changing characters mid-campaign. Hopefully this will mean co-op.

Three protagonists and they still couldn't fit in a female, kinda lame.

All male? That is a shame. Still it looks good.

It is a shame, but then again, having a female protagonist just to please people would be worse. It'd just be box ticking. If they didn't think a female protagonist would work in the story, then it's better off not to have one, as opposed to have one for the sake of it.

It's possible that the characters are needed to be males. They could be ex-cons or ex-squad mates from the military or something, where they all share a past.

It wouldn't have to be shoehorned in at all, hell you could make a woman be ex military or an ex con, I've got a back story for her right here.
Shes an ex-Israeli solder who moves to the states to help her sister get out of some trouble she got into. See, bam, compelling.

Oh right replace Hispanics with most likely white women. That's totally better. Because we all know white people never get enough coverage about how hard it is to to be white in a white person's world.

That totally wouldn't come off badly to minorities or the general public. /sarcasm overload

Give Rockstar the chance to give Hispanics a turn, they haven't gotten their turn yet. Its not like its the last GTA to ever be made. Stop freaking out over nothing.

What the hell are you talking about? Is there a hispanic woman you play as in the game?
From the article picture it looks like its two white guys and a black guy. Anyway, I was just giving an example of a way you could have a women who is ex military since having some kind of back story that would show they have knowledge of weapons is very important in gta games. >.> Anyway, one of the few military's I know of that is integrated with woman as front line troops is Israel, so I went with them, I don't know of any hispanic counties with an integrated military.

My point is: just be happy it isn't a middle aged white guy on a quest that involved 99% other middle aged white guys.

secondly, the right guy is half hispanic. You can still be light skinned and hispanic, there is no needed "darkness" to be Hispanic. Just genetics. I seen Hispanics that look like him constantly.

The middle is also Hispanic, how you confuse him with a black guy is mind boggling unless you went the "dark skin = black." I also know a lot of Hispanics who look like this guy.

The only one who isn't obviously Hispanic is the left one.

Hispanic women is a hard thing to do. You have a lot of culture to apply to her. A lot of mentalities that you must get right. Hispanic men are much freer, but has a faint link to the same mentalities the women follow. I doubt any writer would want to go down that route, especially since most of it is unknown to the majority of the player base.

Most likely it end being called sexist.

They still look white to me and the middle still looks black, I suppose its possible that one of them is a light skinned hispanic but I would be surprised as hell if the middle one isn't black.

I'll bet if they did put a hispanic woman in the game she would end up being more of a stereotype even if they didn't intend it. The hot blooded hispanic woman is second only to the hispanic maid in media and to be a character in gta you pretty much have to be hot blooded.

You can tell he is Hispanic simply by how he is dressed.

That clothing itself is a old school 90s throwback, fashion only popular in Hispanic circles. Its also popular with the old school Cholos. You only see this kind of stuff in Hispanic ghettos and Downtown-East LA. Hispanic neighborhoods with Hispanic gangs.

Dressing like that is not a good idea for anyone not affiliated with a gang. That's how you get shot. Black and Hispanic gangs do have bad blood between them, anyone that dresses like or acts like a cholo is a target. Regardless if they were real gang members or not.

Since the gangs are race based, it would make little sense for a black guy to dress like an old school cholo.

Since when has promotional material cared about anything but looking "cool"?

Since when is dressing like you walked out of 1992 cool?

A black guy dressing like a Hispanic gang makes no sense, which means he must be Hispanic. That's the original question, not whether it was cool.

Its like a white guy dressing like a black gang member with black face. It makes no sense. A white guy trying that would be shot on day one. The way the black guy dressing like a cholo would.

The question was whether he was black or not. My argument was that if he was black it would make as much sense as black face white guy.

See, the problem with that is that your assuming they cared. Chances are who ever did the art for it was just looking though designs of clothing that gang members tended to wear and though it looked cool and threw it on the characters.

Yeah, clothes old school gang members wear from 20 years ago. Almost iconic clothes at that. As if they can somehow mix that up.

If Rockstar took the time to look up other Iconic facets and look of California, I doubt they would be lazy enough to just throw "gang member clothes" onto a main character.

You are talking about a company that almost obsessively adds detail, even down the dating sites and a rumored "vibrant economy." A company that spends over 100 million dollars for a vast, detailed game.

I doubt rockstar is that lazy, or cash strapped.

This isn't stuff that is in the game, this is promotional art. There is a difference, plus given the customization you usually have with the outfits you were in gta games, chances are you can wear whatever the hell you want, including gang clothes.

Promotional art is meant to give a feel for its characters and personality. A feel for what and who the character is. Its a stereotype drawing. While the clothing may or may not be in the game, its the iconography that gives you a feel for its personality. That's the entire point for GTA's art.

GTA always did it in a stereotypical way. I mean, look at the loading screen of GTA IV's gay character. Rockstar was never known for a non-stereotypical over the top character.

Does it matter if its in the game? No, not really. Does customization matter? No, since personality can't be customized in GTA. The art is there to convey a character's personality and role. Nothing else.

All of the character's artwork pointed to the stereotypical cholo. Its the same no matter what game.

Does it matter how nice Niko dresses? No, he will always be an eastern European who talks about the "old country."

The more I look at that pic, the more I'm convinced your seeing something that isn't there. Why don't you point out exactly what it is about the clothes that not only make you think gang, but also make you think they are all hispanic, aside from which ever white guy is the white guy.

I said two are Hispanic. Not all 3. I said 2 because a leak said one of the characters is half Hispanic, which is the old guy. This is believable since Hispanics can be either very light or very dark.

The middle guy itself resembles a cholo the most. Cholos are not that hard to spot. Its basically a game of "spot the gang member."

stereotypically, in media and public perception, cholos look like this:

The middle looks like a stereotypical cholo than anything else.

Well, your wrong, the middle guy is going to turn out being black, its possible of the two white guys will be half hispanic but Ill bet we are dealing with two white guys. As for their outfits, none of them look "cholo" at all.

On the left we got a guy in a tshirt with jeans or slacks, on the left we got a guy with a button collar shirt in blue jeans and in the middle we got a guy wearing slacks with a long sleeve shirt under a button up short sleeve shirt. These all look like the usual California fashions if not the fashion pretty much wherever. So unless you can come up with some kind of good argument here, I'm not convinced and I'm done here.

no, I can guarantee you he will be Hispanic when they start giving more information. I can recognize California stereotypes. They shouldn't be that hard to spot unless you live in the south or East Coast.

Besides, he has other artwork. Wifebeater with shorts and a big viscous dog? Classic cholo California stereotype. Not to mention the artwork makes him look darker than he is because the artist had a thing for cartoon shading.

No other black character in the series looks like he does, a broad face doesn't mean he is black. In fact, his face lacks the racial facial archetypes rockstar usually uses. His face resembles a Hispanic facial archetype than anything else. There are still broad faced Hispanics with caramel skin.

And considering Los Angeles makes 47% of the Hispanic population of the entire state, it makes more statistical sense for him to be Hispanic. Hell, half of Los Angeles has over 50% Hispanic population in each district. Some even go as high as 97%.

Guess you were wrong.

Cyrus you are a gentleman and a scholar.