Three Reasons for Robin

[gartoo]

Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

 

[omegawyrm]

You know, if they were worried about Robin's costume issues, I wonder if they would consider using the Red Robin costume that Tim Drake has been using lately, originally introduced in Kingdom Come I think. It would be a departure from established comics reasoning and characterization, but the movies have kind of already veered off on their own storytelling arcs.

Also, everyone arguing that Robin doesn't fit in the realistic world setting of these movies, you can't have read many actual Batman comics. Either that or you haven't properly internalized the themes. Frank Miller, one of the most obsessively and ludicrously grimdark comic writers in the world introduced the first female Robin.

 

[RestamSalucard]

Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

I'd watch that!

 

[Kilgorn]

whats really weird is that i skipped to page three and say in italics the human centipede, i saw this mentioned on facebook earlier today and looked it up, was horrified, then realised it was (pun intended) a crappy horror movie. I wish i hadnt ever saw it but since i read this i guess i would have had to know about it eventually. just a freakish occurrence for me.

OT:i think that shia lebeouf should play robin

 

[cerebus23]

Not a huge robin fan, and hell i just registered to get this off my chest. Robin would not work in nolan's universe well at all.

Why let us look at hit girl and why she worked in kick ass. while kick ass in many ways was a good portrayal of what if super heroes really existed the problems they would have hell even big daddys fight scene was pretty gritty and what a real batman would look like in action, with heavy armor, guns, grenades etc etc. hit girl was so over the top is why she worked. she could run up walls, jump about 5 feet into the air, dodge bullets fired at her head in the big end fight scenes, and cursed like a gang banger.

nolans universe is very grounded in context of the fights, batman is a ninja with some cqc martial arts style grounded in real life martial arts. the new improved bat suit allows greater movement which allows them to do the big hong kong fight scene and batman is fairly mobile and athletic, but he is still not doing any superhuman judo martial arts magic mumbo jumbo leaps and kicks.

what would a robin do in a nolan film? fighting armed mobsters, psychotic clowns, murderous men with half their faces burnt off, and whoever shows up in the 3rd act. keeping with the rest of the films style, a child would mostly get the living hell beat out of them. without the wire assists a hit girl had, and the above average speed hit girl had, assuming he would have to wear body armor like batman not to have a few rounds put in his chest or his head blown off, how is a little kid say 10 to 16 years old range supposed to go toe to toe with guys with guns, longer reach, and much greater strength.

camp is dead, batman is not a happy crime fighter nor does he work particularly well as one. he is traumatized by seeing his parents death to the point he becomes obsessed with stopping crime and dedicates his entire existence to it. he has a bevy of women he has sex with but avoids close personal relationships with an almost neurotic dillgence. he is sarcastic and not very talkative to even his friends like alfred, superman, etc. he hardly ever get chummy with anyone, since he knows he is the last and best line of defense in almost any situation he really cannot afford personal ties to the degree that a normal human being would have.

does this really sound like the person who should be raising a child? lol nevermind putting them out on the streets of arguably the most dangerous city to ever exist, in tights.

yea there are great batman and robin stories, batman the animated series, which some of the writers are doing batman AA and its follow up. had some of the best bats writing and characters of any series cartoon or comic. still btas had a full season of loner batman that worked perfectly well, it was not until the second or third season where robin was introduced. and it was done very well robin was not campy or annoying.

still it is a lot easier to make robin viable in a comic or cartoon, is robin an integral part of the batman mythos? partially some of the greatest fails of batmans life was putting young boys and girls in the sidekick role, there is alot of tragic drama to be had there if any movie had the guts to show joker torturing, beating to death a child because he is batmans ally, making batman face that, and try to push batman over that fine edge he walks.

but you can create that drama in nolans batman without a robin period, and it is alot easier for it to happen to an adult as opposed to trying to depict a child in the same situations or dead at the hand of a mainiac.

and batman the brave and the bold is the worst piece of shit to ever grace tv, with the possible exception of the movie batman and robin and the 70s tv show. many of us older bat fans hate the camp, care less for the silver age camp in the comics, and perfer our batmen brooding and dark.

 

[KurtzGallahad]

Robin is an ex-circus performer in colourful clothing helping a brutal vigilante wearing grey and black, he is a neccesary juxtaposition that counterpoints the darkness and violence with a sense of inocence an levity

 

[KurtzGallahad]

Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

I'd also watch that...
But with a twist, both of batmans sidekicks (Robin and nightwing)
are each simultaneously tying to prove themselves to him

 

[Shadowsole]

I Quite like Robin (Dick)

and i enjoy the idea of at the end of the next moivie bruce adopting a young resently orpanized Kid.

Even if the backstory is changed abit the circus drop changed to a ( this JJust Came to Me)
Somthing that is directly batmans fault like they get hity by the tumblerEven If he isn't in the movie and robin

 

[Daipire]

How would the boy-wonder be gritty? and who would play him?

 

[MalevolentJim]

I can only see it working if they turned Robin into the demented psychopath that all teenage boys wish they could be.Sitting there,minding their own business until a group of bullies picks on him.His solution? He kills their dogs and puts them into a blender,then feeds them to his parents before killing them too.Y'know,something Hit Girl would do.

 

[Darmani]

If I may we might want to add some more Day the Clown cried type tragedy at least explaining why the Circus can't raise the dude. And if you seen any of the publically released Aang auditions. Well I mean there are some limber kids out there. There are semi-experienced actors out there. You could possibly pull it off. Noah from all reports is a terrible actor (which is fine Aangs a lightweight role and he was cast to GROW into it and has experienced and strong supporting cast) but you could do something there.

Basically make it serious tragedy that triggers the events with Batman and Robin meeting. I'd even include the shorty shorts/trunks (they enable movement and are just a part of the outfit, it isn't like people aren't wearing stuff like it in public) Red Tunic (if he's doing his job you don't see him black *looks* dark and foreboding it really isn't that stealthy most of the time and maybe lose the cape until the end.

 

[Elec0]

I agree completely.

 

[Sheepy Fluff]

For a Batgirl I think Summer Glau could pull it off pretty well.

 

[brums405]

If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

 

[MovieBob]

If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

Two-Face is dead. The Nolan brothers have been pretty clear about that.

 

[tirone231]

Sorry guys, but I have to disagree with MovieBob on this. I think that adding Robin would most likely have a negative effect on the movie; the most notable being that people would immediately start comparing him to Hit-Girl, and so even though he came first he'll feel like a copy. Also, he doesn't fit with the darker and more realistic theme that Christopher Nolan is going for, as well as the central story of how Bruce Wayne is dealing with being Batman. To introduce Robin as well as the next villain(s) would take up a lot of time that needs to be devoted to the central story. If a sidekick type character needs to be introduced, it ought to be Catwoman, since she has a great love/hate relationship with Batman, and it would create a complication to Bruce's feeling about Rachel's death.

 

[DoW Lowen]

Actually I never thought about it like that before - Dark Knight I mean. It really was dark. Huh... thanks good chap.

OT: I don't mind what Nolan does really, anything he touches is gold. Really looking forward to Inception.

EDIT: Zsasz would be the best villain for the next Batman in my opinion. He has the psychotic and twisted nature necessary for Nolan's vision.

 

[Rhino of Steel]

By the way, for everyone expressing their disdain for the campier versions of Batman, I urge you to watch a few episodes of the Brave and the Bold. They are Silver Age Batman at his finest and show how well it can be done. They even pull off the near miraculous task of making Aquaman a character you can really like.

Not that it would fit with Nolan's Batman at all but it just goes to show that camp isn't all bad.

 

[MovieBob]

By the way, for everyone expressing their disdain for the campier versions of Batman, I urge you to watch a few episodes of the Brave and the Bold. They are Silver Age Batman at his finest and show how well it can be done. They even pull off the near miraculous task of making Aquaman a character you can really like.

Not that it would fit with Nolan's Batman at all but it just goes to show that camp isn't all bad.

I'd agree with all of that save for the word "camp." "Camp," generally, refers to a form of humor - usually the ironic appreciation of something that wasn't originally meant to be funny or a parody on those same lines. The Adam West "Batman" was most-definately camp, as it was essentially a SPOOF of 60s-style comics and pop-art - and BTW, if you haven't in awhile, go back and actually WATCH some of that series without the cloud of "this made serious comic movies impossible for decades" hanging over it, and you might find it's actually a lot of fun at least in the initial seasons. If nothing else, Batman fans have THAT show to thank for making now-mandatory characters like Bat-Girl, Mr. Freeze and The Riddler popular again (in fact, the Barbara Gordon Bat-Girl EXISTS solely because of the show.)

"Brave & The Bold," on the other hand... I'm not sure that's really "camp." At least not most of the time - the musical/comedy episodes are definately camp. But overall, the tone of that series is basically Silver Age Batman/DC played "straight." That's how comics were, for most part, prior to the late-70s. DC put out a series of "Batman In The..." books covering the 60s, 70s and 80s, reading through them is a good cure for the "Batman has always been _______" thing. That send, B&TB is basically a fantastic show.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Robin as the comic relief \o/