"Titans" Actress Anna Diop Has Been Hit With Racist Insults
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I did that, and I decided that the people doing this are worthless, racist fucktards.Vendor-Lazarus said:
Well, as much as I like to think that the world is full of morally grey choices, this seems pretty damn black and white. It's either A.) You approve of racist hate mail or B.) You don't. There really is no middle ground here. As such, fuck these racist pieces of shit. I hate it when things from my childhood are changed as much as the next fan, but getting vitriolic about it to the point of harassment is unhealthy and disgusting.
You got a lot on this already, but here's one more angle.Vendor-Lazarus said:
Do you know why people wear uniforms? To show they are on the same side. Do you know why people do group think or speak? To allow themselves to be indoctrinated and/or show that they were.
If people use racist language, they open themselves up as declaring themselves as racist.
You can even be displeased with her casting choice. I'm not a hundred percent a fan, but I'm not a fan of anything DC is doing lately besides Young Justice. But when they bring in racist tactics, how can you ask people to look past their speech and torment of a human being to try to find a different way of viewing it? They weren't bothered with finding a different way of presenting themselves. So I say let's take them as they wanted to show themselves.
Most of the crackback I've seen against her Starfire hasn't been race based. ~95% of the rancor has been aimed at her costume and hair for the role.
The issue with the costume and how she is presented. Seriously the people in the costume department should have been fired for this. They could have made it work, but they didn't and because of that all legitimate criticisms brought against the costume department are thrown away under the guise of sexism. I found an image that shows what they could have done with her, but chose not to for what ever reason.
So what prevented them from presenter her as the image shown on the left? We have the technology and the practicable ability. Look at Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy.
Actually, what if they intentionally made her look like that for the very reason of calling all critics sexist and misogynistic? Im starting to think we are getting to that point, after all you can dismiss all criticisms if you call your criticisms racist, nazi, misogynistic, etc.
So what prevented them from presenter her as the image shown on the left? We have the technology and the practicable ability. Look at Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy.
Actually, what if they intentionally made her look like that for the very reason of calling all critics sexist and misogynistic? Im starting to think we are getting to that point, after all you can dismiss all criticisms if you call your criticisms racist, nazi, misogynistic, etc.
Probably because they couldn't make it seem bad, but when the exact same criticism happens to also be against the costume design for a black female they could ride the white horse and claim racism despite their being none.undeadsuitor said:
Word. You'd think it wouldn't be too much to ask of professional makeup and costume artists to put as much effort into it as some random person on the internet with Photoshop and 10 minutes to spare [https://i.redd.it/lcsjlfjnmhr01.jpg], but instead, here we are.kiri3tsubasa said:
I don't like her costume as much as the next person, but let's be real here: Many of the complaints are not just about her costume they specifically stated that having a black actress was a poor choice. We should not just ignore that or attempt to downplay it or pretend that is not what it is. It makes it a lot more difficult to discuss the cut of her dress and the bulky obnoxious fur coat when you have people just offended for her being black regardless of what she wears.kiri3tsubasa said:The issue with the costume and how she is presented. Seriously the people in the costume department should have been fired for this. They could have made it work, but they didn't and because of that all legitimate criticisms brought against the costume department are thrown away under the guise of sexism. I found an image that shows what they could have done with her, but chose not to for what ever reason.
So what prevented them from presenter her as the image shown on the left? We have the technology and the practicable ability. Look at Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy.
Actually, what if they intentionally made her look like that for the very reason of calling all critics sexist and misogynistic? Im starting to think we are getting to that point, after all you can dismiss all criticisms if you call your criticisms racist, nazi, misogynistic, etc.
Probably because they couldn't make it seem bad, but when the exact same criticism happens to also be against the costume design for a black female they could ride the white horse and claim racism despite their being none.undeadsuitor said:
Personally I don't like the hair in either of the photos you showed. Starfire is supposed to have A TON of hair, so long it trails behind her and so fluffy and full it dwarfs her face. It is not supposed to be tight curls and it is not supposed to be flat like the other photo. What they should have used was a FULL over bulked up lady Godiva wig in fire red. More like lady godiva:
cut a bit off the front style to a tip in the back and poof it up a bit more dye it red and this would even work ( of course in a much better quality of wig though):
This is the hair they should have been going for here:
The awful wig they used looks nothing like her character wig, but neither does the flat straight hair. It needs to go in a different direction all together.
Here's the point. You're absolutely right that the picture shows she would have made a very acceptable Starfire.kiri3tsubasa said:The issue with the costume and how she is presented. Seriously the people in the costume department should have been fired for this. They could have made it work, but they didn't and because of that all legitimate criticisms brought against the costume department are thrown away under the guise of sexism. I found an image that shows what they could have done with her, but chose not to for what ever reason.
So what prevented them from presenter her as the image shown on the left? We have the technology and the practicable ability. Look at Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy.
Actually, what if they intentionally made her look like that for the very reason of calling all critics sexist and misogynistic? Im starting to think we are getting to that point, after all you can dismiss all criticisms if you call your criticisms racist, nazi, misogynistic, etc.
Probably because they couldn't make it seem bad, but when the exact same criticism happens to also be against the costume design for a black female they could ride the white horse and claim racism despite their being none.undeadsuitor said:
The issue is that dropping racist remarks on her twitter for the design choice the Producers and the Directors of the show made is unacceptable.
That is literally what this thread is about.
If we had another thread that compared the number of racist insults people personally levied towards her and insults people made on general about the idea of not coloring a Tamaranian orange... well, I don't understand why we would, but if we did that would be one thing.
Here, we're talking about people going onto her Instagram and harassing her. To the point where she had to shut it off. Do you remember the link [https://mobile.twitter.com/badpostitans/status/1020303702282899456] in the OP?
The first response was this
Like it's that easy. "Yeah, it's horrible that people were racist. But understandable that they were because the costume she didn't pick for herself WAS terrible. So I get it."
A person was harassed by others using taboo and heinous means because they are upset with a choice she had no control over. That's wrong. Marginalize it, twist the focus to another part, or whatever... it's still wrong.
So, it's off topic, but I'm going to come down hard on this because it's frankly dangerous to indulge scientific racism even a little..The Lunatic said:
"Caucasian" was a term from the common "three races" system of scientific racism, popular in the 19th century. Like all forms of scientific racism, it was bullshit, and although people sometimes use the word as shorthand for white people, there is no such thing, scientifically speaking, as a "Caucasian".
Indo-European is a language group which we theorize derives from a common source language called proto-Indo-European (or PIE). Because of the distribution of Indo-European languages, it is generally believed that over about 3000 years, Indo-European speaking people migrated outwards from somewhere in the near east (there are various theories as to where, but the dominant one depicted by your map has PIE originate on the Pontic steppes) to both Europe and Central Asia.
This is also backed up by archaogenetic evidence, which suggests that originally, Indo-European speakers did have a distinct ethnic identity, and that some of their genes were assimilated into populations where they migrated. However, beyond a few genetic markers which we use to track their migrations, we know almost nothing about them.
However, this is where reality begins to separate from scientific racism and myth. There's no evidence whatsoever that Proto-Indo-Europeans were the ancestors of white people or were responsible for creating some kind of "caucasian" race. For comparison, Neanderthals went extinct tens of thousands of years before the Indo-European migrations, and we can still identify distinct trends based on the relative presence of their DNA in European and Middle Eastern populations versus those elsewhere in the world. PIE migrations definately influenced the genetics of people they migrated into, but they became one of many, many factors influencing the genetics of people in that region.
The reason why North Indians and South Indians sometimes look a little different is much less dramatic than an invasion of magic white people. There isn't a magical barrier preventing people crossing the Indus. Much of North India is very rich and fertile, so naturally people have always migrated from Central Asia into India. It is possible and indeed likely that some of these migrations were invading armies, there have after all been several invasions of India by Altaic conquerers during our recorded history. But there is no evidence of a single "Aryan invasion" of India.
"Aryan", incidentally, is the etymological root of the word "Iran". It literally just refers to the region and its people, not to any mythical race.
I like how people are still using the pre-production stills.
I mean, this pic still looks better in motion, but like I said before, she's got a layer of CGI for the actual show.
Though I do like the vintage Starfire comics pages floating around. Bigger defined lips, prominent nose, I can see why they went with s black gal. The facial structure lines up.
I mean, this pic still looks better in motion, but like I said before, she's got a layer of CGI for the actual show.
Though I do like the vintage Starfire comics pages floating around. Bigger defined lips, prominent nose, I can see why they went with s black gal. The facial structure lines up.
And this is the truth of it.Captain Marvelous said:
There isn't and shouldn't be a "but you can see why people are upset" about this. Be upset all you want, that isn't an excuse or justification for racist hate mail.
Even though it looks better than without, I am still not digging the length of the wig and bulky coat. Her long hair was a part of her core character, that wig she has is much too short. Where is her trail of hair?! I might even be able to live with the tighter curls due to how it bulks up the hair if they had the wig much longer and styled properly to match her character.altnameJag said:I like how people are still using the pre-production stills.
I mean, this pic still looks better in motion, but like I said before, she's got a layer of CGI for the actual show.
Though I do like the vintage Starfire comics pages floating around. Bigger defined lips, prominent nose, I can see why they went with s black gal. The facial structure lines up.
On topic now:
It does not matter one tiny, insignificant bit how bad a production is, how bad an individual actor or actress is, or how bad their costume looks.
1) Do not racially abuse anyone. Just don't do it. Ever. There is no excuse.
2) Do not single out a non-white person as a scapegoat for your feelings on the overall quality of the production
The latter is obvious to anyone who knows what's going on. Because while you may not be engaging in open racism, the reason you're going after that person is ultimately because you know racists will support you and dogpile your target. People of colour are already vulnerable to abuse, harassment and dogpiling on social media because people are really fucking racist. If you're not a racist, maybe don't take advantage of that, even if it's a convenient way of getting your "message" across.
It does not matter one tiny, insignificant bit how bad a production is, how bad an individual actor or actress is, or how bad their costume looks.
1) Do not racially abuse anyone. Just don't do it. Ever. There is no excuse.
2) Do not single out a non-white person as a scapegoat for your feelings on the overall quality of the production
The latter is obvious to anyone who knows what's going on. Because while you may not be engaging in open racism, the reason you're going after that person is ultimately because you know racists will support you and dogpile your target. People of colour are already vulnerable to abuse, harassment and dogpiling on social media because people are really fucking racist. If you're not a racist, maybe don't take advantage of that, even if it's a convenient way of getting your "message" across.
Practicality in both cases, I'd imagine. It'd be hard to move with that sheer length of wig on, let alone get into action scenes. I imagine talking without getting hair in your mouth would be quite the challenge too.Lil devils x said:
And the coat is just because its damn cold walking round in just Starfire's usual brand of attire. Its what Diop said herself when pictures first emerged. Possibly also some sort of disguise, as Starfire from that bit of the trailer looks a bit off-guard
Evil put it far better than I ever could.The Lunatic said:
Frankly nerd culture is still very exclusionary when it comes to the mainstream on the internet. We don't have a long history of playing nice with non-white men. It disgusts me.undeadsuitor said:
Though I do have a pet theory as to why people on Twitter are more pissed Starfire online than Beast Boy. I don't want to go into too much detail, but it involves the fact that they didn't find Beast Boy attractive.
I literally have hair past my ass. What my friend calls " princess hair" LOL! I don't think it is anywhere near as difficult to maneuver with long hair as you are making it out to be. I have always had long hair, even when I was captain of my gymnastics team in school. You can put it up and style it according to what you are doing. Even if they had only gone with hair as long as mine or even above her ass, it would have been better than the length they chose to use.Palindromemordnilap said:
As for it being cold walking around in her attire, that is why you think about that before you choose to shoot in an area or at specific times of the year. That is bad production and scheduling and they had 100% control over that and that should have no impact on costume decisions. Besides, when we were competing in gymnastics, no one could care less how cold we were in unheated gyms in what looks like a bathing suit...
You don't alter the story, character or costumes due to bad production decisions. I do hope you are right that it is some sort of disguise and will have a wardrobe change at some point.
Straight or curly hair? Because mine does turn into dense curls like Starfire's and its a pain to deal with if it reaches even shoulder length. Down to my hips and also a wig? I don't think that would be pleasant at all.Lil devils x said:
From what we have of set photos and the trailer whenever she's wearing the coat she seems to be in the same place. It looks like she might have just arrived on earth and this is her trying to blend in a little bit, grabbing something to put over her purple spacesuit. Would also explain why she's roasting those dudes alive (sort of), she's stressed out and massively over-reacting in panic. And most likely not aware how squishy humans are yet. At least thats certainly what I'm hoping...Lil devils x said:
Yea my hair is straight, but that also makes it more "fly away" as there is nothing locking it into place as curls tend to latch on to one another. They didn't have to use the tight curled wig for her character, they could have used a loose curls wig like the ones I added above. None of the original starfire photos show her having tight curls at all, so not sure why they chose that wig for her. Wigs are actually easier to style and keep in place than natural hair as they are pre styled before they go on the head and can be secured very well to where you can hang upside down and do flips without them budging if they are are secured properly. Performers have been wearing them to do all sorts of stunts for years. Granted if it were floor length that would become a hazard for sure.Palindromemordnilap said:
Of course it does not even have to be down to the arse, even mid back could give the same effect especially if they add tracers to her fire hair to make it look like a trail of hair behind her as it is supposed to. Sure they can do that now, but the hair doesn't even look angled to a tip as it should and they cannot really do that with the length of wig they chose.