To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

[Spinozaad]

All pirate copies are lost sales. Fact!
The legally bought copy is always superior to the pirated version. Fact!
All games ever produced are still available through legal channels. Fact!
The industry is in bad weather, solely because of the pirates. They are not to blame, in any way. Fact!

I hope this is sarcastic.

't Is.

 

[Jemurai]

Personally I believe all games should become free at about 10 years old. So people who insist that gaming is a right can have a vast selection of games to play through and those who want to play the latest entertainment should have to pay the company who spent large amounts of time and effort developing the games.

10 year old games are pretty useless. I doubt that I can still run any game made in 2000 or earlier on my Win 7 PC.

10 years isn't that long ago diablo 2 is 10 years starcraft is like 12 years and that is still the major game in south korea the original half is like 12 years as well as anything up to the Nintendo 64 era which all run fine on emulators and people often claim the zelda and mario karts as some of the greatest games around as well the original halo will be 10 years old next year

if your not willing to pay shouldn't get the latest games

 

[Grygor]

You're not too much older than me, so maybe you didn't check, but yes, games generally did cost $50-$60 dollars. I'm not calling you a liar since I wasn't around to buy Nintendo games first hand, but I doubt games cost $5 new, or at least, that it was common for them to be that cheap.

This. From the NES era to the PS2 era, the standard price for a new just-released game was $50 in the US (sometimes going as high as $70 for some games). Any game bought new for a lower price was generally either a) several weeks or months past release date, b) not selling at all, or c) on sale. (For example, I have many NES games that I bought brand new for $15 dollars - every one had already been out for several months when I bought it.) This hasn't changed, either - I can go out right now and buy a new copy of Mass Effect 2 for $20, simply because it's been out for 9 months already.

And taking into account inflation, the current $60 standard isn't really that bad. Super Mario Bros. 3, for example, cost $50 new when it came out in 1990 - that's equivalent to a game costing about $84 today. The NES port of Double Dragon cost $70 when it came out in 1988, and it sold out in 2 weeks; that price is equivalent to $129 in today's dollars.

In fact, a $60 game today costs less in inflation-adjusted dollars than any $50 game bought before 2003.

The bitter truth is that game prices have been rising slower than inflation, while the cost of game development has been rising FAR faster than inflation - in the 16-bit era, AAA titles cost less than $1 million to make ($1.7 million adjust for inflation), while now they cost on average $18 million to $28 million to make. Even "indie" games like Braid and World of Goo had development budgets ($180,000 for Braid, $96,000 for World of Goo) that, even adjusted for inflation, would have paid for main-stream games in the 8- and 16-bit eras. This means that games need to sell more copies now than ever before just to stay profitable - the first Final Fantasy would've made a profit even selling just 50,000 copies, but Final Fantasy XII, with it's $48 million budget, needed to sell 2.4 million copies to turn a profit.

He doesn't address minor's use of piracy, hardly surprising given he's 37. I buy games through steam, mainly the multiplayer centric ones like L4d and TF2, however what few (and I mean few, like 1 or 2 a year) single player games I play on the PC tend to be pirated. The reason for this? No disposable income.

I hear all this wonderful press on websites like the escapist about how amazing the story is and I can't buy it. It's just not economical. I have some 700 hours on TF2, a game that cost me $20. Even if it cost me the typical $90 for a new game in Australia it'd still be much greater value than a single player game like Modern Warfare 2 (I have no interest in its multiplayer).

When I get a disposable income I will try to fully support the interactive entertainment industry, until then the best I can do is at least appreciate the games I can't afford rather than just attempt to ignore their existence.

Boo hoo.

You do not have a RIGHT to play any given game - if you hear good things about a game, but can't afford to buy it, that does not give you the right to pirate it. Find a friend who has it, hope for a demo or free play weekend (or something like that), or make do without, but don't plead poverty as a valid excuse to get games without paying for them.

 

[Torrasque]

TL;DR

Piracy is nasty, and I don't pirate games (partially due to ignorance of how to) because getting cheap games is easy enough already.
I only buy games I know I will like, and I don't mind paying the "outrage" costs for a new game, I'm used to it by now.

Would I like game prices to drop? Hell yes
Will I still keep buying games at their current price? Yeppers
Will I cry that I can't own every game I want to own because I don't have enough money to buy them all? Probably

Sadly, there is no boat strong enough to carry me across the river of QQ

 

[thereverend7]

I never pirate games. But even when I do spend money on things, i always buy them used. im 19 and have a part time job and bills to pay. I don't have the kind of money to buy every movie or game that comes down the pike that I want to see or play.

My point is, either way, pirating or buying used, i don't think a game developer (Or movie, book, anything, really) has seen my money since i was 10. I just don't have that kind of money to waste on buying things new all the time.

But thats just my opinion. I can see why so many people are against piracy though.

 

[Jemurai]

Personally I believe all games should become free at about 10 years old. So people who insist that gaming is a right can have a vast selection of games to play through and those who want to play the latest entertainment should have to pay the company who spent large amounts of time and effort developing the games.

10 year old games are pretty useless. I doubt that I can still run any game made in 2000 or earlier on my Win 7 PC.

10 years isn't that long ago diablo 2 is 10 years starcraft is like 12 years and that is still the major game in south korea the original half is like 12 years as well as anything up to the Nintendo 64 era which all run fine on emulators and people often claim the zelda and mario karts as some of the greatest games around as well the original halo will be 10 years old next year

if your not willing to pay shouldn't get the latest games

Indeed and Starcraft runs at 800 x 600 I think. Looks horrible on a native 1920 x 1080 display. You can mod it but then that doesn't count does it, on it's own it looks horrible on modern PC's.

Diablo 2 likely has the same problem.

As for console games, well, they weren't even made to be compatible with PC's in the first place so I wouldn't count them. Obviously you won't be getting the carts for free either.

so why does blizzard still sell starcraft and diablo in stores if it's so bad?
and the rate of graphic development is slowing so the time gaps make less of a difference

but i'm not saying this is going to happen i simply believe that it should no longer be classified as pirating when games reach a certain age

 

[Ashsaver]

I pirated stuffs in the past when i was just a kid who only got 2-5 dollars to sustain myself for a week,back when games were 20-40 dollars.

Right now,I only pirate stuffs i can't buy,not because it's too expensive,but because it's either only sold in certain country only or banned in my country(Fallout 3,GTA etc.),importing them are no good because custom would just confiscates it, and i might face a criminal charge.

Aside from the rare,and banned title i can't legally get,Sometime i had to pirate games that doesn't have demo,of course when i wanna buy a game,especially PC games,I'd want to know how good my PC runs the game,if there's a demo or a benchmark then there's no problem,but if there isn't,well I'll have to hit piratebay,if my PC runs the game fine,and i liked it,I'll buy it,if i don't like it or my PC can't handle it,I don't buy it,and I'll stop playing.

Pricing is never factor in my decision what title I'll pirate,if i feel it's too expensive I'll just wait til it's discounted,or bundled with other title, I bought Jade Empire bundled with Dark Messiah for 10 bucks a few years back.

 

[Alexnader]

He doesn't address minor's use of piracy, hardly surprising given he's 37. I buy games through steam, mainly the multiplayer centric ones like L4d and TF2, however what few (and I mean few, like 1 or 2 a year) single player games I play on the PC tend to be pirated. The reason for this? No disposable income.

I hear all this wonderful press on websites like the escapist about how amazing the story is and I can't buy it. It's just not economical. I have some 700 hours on TF2, a game that cost me $20. Even if it cost me the typical $90 for a new game in Australia it'd still be much greater value than a single player game like Modern Warfare 2 (I have no interest in its multiplayer).

When I get a disposable income I will try to fully support the interactive entertainment industry, until then the best I can do is at least appreciate the games I can't afford rather than just attempt to ignore their existence.

Boo hoo.

You do not have a RIGHT to play any given game - if you hear good things about a game, but can't afford to buy it, that does not give you the right to pirate it. Find a friend who has it, hope for a demo or free play weekend (or something like that), or make do without, but don't plead poverty as a valid excuse to get games without paying for them.

This isn't a matter of rights. I want to check out a game, I cannot buy the game. So instead I pirate it. Does the developer lose out on this? Yes? Wrong answer. The developer loses nothing from this. There is no way in hell I'd have bought Modern Warfare 2 for $90. Is this an ideal arrangement? No. Whenever I have enough money to buy a game I want I buy the game. However if a game comes out which I have only a passing interest in (like MW2) and I can't afford it and it's a big watercooler title then I may end up pirating it. You may say I should wait until it's marked down however the sad truth is that by the time a game like MW2 is marked down I'll have forgotten about even wanting to play it. The dev doesn't even lose out on a delayed sale here, there was no sale in the first place.
We can go on about the developer's rights, the responsibilities of the consumer and any number of issues but when you get right down to the nitty gritty of it the only cost incurred here is in bandwidth.

Now while this is a free loader's attitude as described in the article, I point to the analogy of taxes and infrastructure. Those who cannot pay the taxes are not taxed, or are subject to tax that is scaled to their income. However they are not denied access to any infrastructure the government provides. Is this not free loading? In fact many members of the public are supported fiscally by the government, ideally until they can pick themselves up and become contributing members of society. I'd like to be seen not as a freedom loving pirate but as a welfare bum. Sure I may not be contributing anything now but at least I'm not costing anything. Sure the devs earn nothing from me and are supporting my gaming habit (if you can call 1 game a year "support"), however given enough time (a few months in this case) I will be able to support the industry. Surely this result is better than discouraging me from gaming in the first place.

That or I'd like to be referred to as a minor in the public education system. The government subsidises my education and pays a large amount of the costs incurred. (Sure there are some school fees and taxes but overall the government is paying) Now those that are too poor to pay these school fees can still get an education. Why? Forget human rights and whatnot, in the end these students are investments. The government pays now because with a proper education those students have a much greater chance of becoming productive members of society. View these 18 years (10 really, who pirates games at the age of 5?) as an education in gaming. Preparing me for many decades of paying through the teeth for games in Australia.

-----------
Addendum: Borrowing the game from a friend is akin to piracy. I don't know why you would suggest such action.

 

[Arkzism]

ive been over this, but i pirate but i also buy a bunch of games, i am a pc gamer and dont like seeing it die, but i pirate games that A : are hard to find, mostly older titles, or B: im not sure about.. and like what i do with movies, if i like them, i'll buy them

 

[Terramax]

They cost too much is no excuse. If you think game companies are asking for too much money, don't buy their games, you can clearly get more use out of the money you've saved.

I hate it when people write this, because I know half a million people will point out that someone not buying the game and someone pirating the game accumilates to the same result for the dev.

*sigh*

 

[Voodoomancer]

I don't think piracy is alright, but I stopped giving a shit when the developers stopped developing the games half way through.

This right here.

 

[Switchlurk]

"if i could download a car i would"

^this makes a lot more sense if youre australian

Knuckles mate

 

[Eponet]

Socialism looks good on paper, but every socialist state has collapsed/is on its last legs.

What are you talking about? Socialism looks horrid on paper.

 

[captaincabbage]

Pretty sure pirates will still look at it as "I get free stuff so I don't give a damn" regardless of how it's looked at, or what impact it has on others. That's why they're pirates to begin with.

Goddamnit I hate you so much right now because you're absolutely right. DX

Pirates will have a scroll throught it and think "Well that's a very in depth dissection of piracy, but if you'll excuse me, my copy of Iron Man 2 has finished downloading LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL."

 

[Dastardly]

Pfft, piracy is fine.
It's a testament to the selfless nature that some people can exhibit.
All the stuff about it destroying industry is just boo-hoo from the publishers cos they aren't making the money they want to each quarter. So what? Produce a decent enough game to get people to buy it so they'll support you in the future instead of ripping your game off. Would you really buy a game from a company that has let you down again and again, or would you rather get a hold of it for free to give it a test run? That being said if you really wanted a game would you rather pirate it or buy it? If you REALLY wanted it... enough to say... buy it?!

Oh and btw, check your sources. I don't think ANY company wants to get the eye for being pro-piracy... ANY, especially a po-dunk like tweakguides.com! So saying that's unbiased is wrong.

If piracy has taught me anything, it's that people will believe anything is bad as long as its shoved in their face with a big sign saying it is and a rockin' tune that just makes them want to obey the law! It's that side of it that makes me lose almost all faith in humans... dumb animals.

Someone get this li'l nipper a medal! He's just so selfless in his giving of other people's stuff. There is just absolutely no evidence to support your claim that people who pirate a game to "give it a test run," and find they enjoy it, then turn around and pay money for a game they ALREADY HAVE. Oh, and then surely they'll turn around and buy the sequel after getting the first game for free with no consequences!

That'd be like thinking ANYONE, ANYWHERE goes to a deli, gets a sandwich, and then loves that sandwich so much they go "Holy balls! You--deli guy--I'd like to pay for this sandwich AGAIN it was just so great!"

(And before you try to pull the "Ah, but free samples make people buy the product!" game, let's recall that free samples give you a SMALL TASTE of the product in order to entice you to buy the full version. And promos that give you a free meal with a coupon? Limited time only.

The "free sample" provided by piracy is the ENTIRE GAME. And then it's always available, for free, anytime you like. There is no enticement whatsoever for these people to turn around and become paying contributors--they got it all for free, so why go back and pay now? They know full well the company will make another (thanks to those saps foolish enough to BUY the game, har har), and they can just yoink that one, too.

Nothing you say stands up to the statistical evidence, or even basic human psychology. It's the kind of logic you only find on an extra 21st chromosome.

I've done exactly what you say doesn't happen. Pirated first dawn of war then bought the GOTY version and all of it's expansions. Even soulstorm which wasn't that good. The enticement is knowing that people got paid for making a good product.

Anecdotal evidence that represents only a tiny exception to a much larger rule. Sure, SOMEONE has gotten the whole game for free and then paid for it out of the goodness of their heart. And SOMEONE out there has stolen a car and then bought the old owner a nicer one to replace it. Doesn't change the fact that it happens FAR less often.

Oh, also, you bought the GOTY edition. All of the expansions at a reduced price. Not exactly charity work.

 

[Dastardly]

Yep. Remember World of Goo and Demigod? Two great games, by all published accounts. No DRM. Low price points, created by indie developers... and both with a 90% piracy rate. That means the game was good enough that a bajillion people wanted it, but 90% of them decided that "no DRM" meant "Go ahead and take it for free!"

On the indie thing. Remember The Humble Indie Bundle?

It basically let people pay whatever they wanted for a pack of 6 frankly genius indie games. A lot of people paid $0 for it.

Some good Samaritans, however, paid upwards of $200 for it.

World of Goo is probably the only example I can think of, of a game that so deserved top sales and got pirated. A lot of games get pirated all the time and all I think is, "eh, sucks to be them." But World of Goo... it makes me sad.

Exactly. People will take it for free if it's available for free.

Yep. Remember World of Goo and Demigod? Two great games, by all published accounts. No DRM. Low price points, created by indie developers... and both with a 90% piracy rate. That means the game was good enough that a bajillion people wanted it, but 90% of them decided that "no DRM" meant "Go ahead and take it for free!"

On the indie thing. Remember The Humble Indie Bundle?

It basically let people pay whatever they wanted for a pack of 6 frankly genius indie games. A lot of people paid $0 for it.

Some good Samaritans, however, paid upwards of $200 for it.

World of Goo is probably the only example I can think of, of a game that so deserved top sales and got pirated. A lot of games get pirated all the time and all I think is, "eh, sucks to be them." But World of Goo... it makes me sad.

Pay what you want but if you pay $0 then we will call you a pirate? Is that the way it worked?

Strawman argument. No one here called them pirates that I've seen. We're simply saying that, despite all the "activist" claims of pirates, the evidence shows that if people CAN get it for free, they TAKE IT FOR FREE. In this case, it was perfectly legal, but it proved that, for the most part, it's not about "supporting good developers." It's about free stuff, and believing someone ELSE will pay the bill.