To Hell With Comments

[Battenberg]

Of course this article has 160+ comments in the space of a day(ish), and of course I feel the need to add mine. It's a shame there's no way to post a comment on an article like this without it being thick with irony but then the alternative is that people don't use this perfectly valid and convenient way to discuss the issue presented before us which, at least as far as I'm concerned, would be detrimental to the articles/ videos on The Escapist.

Admittedly there are plenty of people willing to post trivial, meaningless comments or go hunting 'likes' by claiming some small portion of the credit for someone else's joke. On the other hand there are those who post legitimately interesting points (either in support or countering the journalist's argument) and to lump all comment posters together as a big glob of 'boring twats' is a shortsighted generalisation at best, it would be equivalent to saying all movie critics are pretentious (something I had previously considered to be true), it may well be accurate for some but it tars genuinely valuable insight as being somehow worth less simply because of its origin.

In addition the comments section on your videos are a representation of your audience, a raw unrefined glimpse at some of the people who you are essentially relying on to watch your videos and ensure you have a continuous source of income (for an online journalist at least). If you don't like the people you are attracting then you have two options:
1) Deal with it - this option means not creating an article especially to call your audience twats because they enjoy discussing video games/ video game culture on your videos.
2) If you are unable to carry out option 1 you are left with just one alternative (excluding continuing to insult your fanbase until you longer have one) and that is to change the way you do your videos, which will invariably influence the kinds of comments you get and, more importantly, change which comments end up at the top of the pile through likes and replies. Jimquisition videos are a great example of this.

Years ago Jim Sterling was considerably angrier in his videos and more aggressive, the kinds of comments he got were, subsequently, not especially nice to read with many pointless and abusive arguments starting as a result. These days Jimquisition is incredibly refined, he is (usually) totally focused on presenting a logical and coherent argument that doesn't require him to resort to shouting/ ranting, and as a result I now consider it worth a few extra minutes to see what other people have said in relation to his videos because the comments are, on the whole, far more interesting and much less negative and ranty. As it stands the only other possible solution to Yahtzee's issue with commenters is to simply not include comments sections which I would consider a tremendous shame as the online community on this website is arguably one of its best features.
Honestly I found this whole article infuriating. I enjoy commenting here because I know it is often the best way to get stimulating conversation about video gaming. Saying things like "I consider it an insult that material created by trained people with experience and qualifications and talent is forced to share space on my computer screen with the musings of uninvolved people with no qualifications bar a keyboard and bottomless twattiness" doesn't come across well to me at all, in fact this is the first time that Yahtzee has posted anything that made me think less of/ like him less as a video game journalist, it just feels like an angry lashing out directly as a result of a few people's comments on Super Mario 3D World. Of course none of this matters because it's all in a comment rather than a video I was paid to make and at 160+ comments in there's little to no chance Yahtzee himself would ever read it but still, I felt like an article describing all commenters as twats was unnecessary/ inaccurate enough that it was worth taking 10 minutes out to present my own twattish counterargument, if only because I currently have the freedom to do so here.

 

[ClockworkUniverse]

However, you forget that about 60% of the population is of lower intelligence (basically, an IQ rating below 90).

This is not just wrong; it's literally impossible. An IQ of 100 is defined as the score on the test for which an equal number of people performed better and worse. Thus, only 50% of the population can have an IQ below 100, and 50% can have an IQ over 100 (minus, of course, however many scored exactly 100).

To go into more detail, the system is intended to generate a bell curve, with around 68% of the population having IQs between 85 and 115, and around 95% having IQs between 70 and 130.

If we focus on low intelligence, only 15.8% of people have an intelligence a standard deviation below average.

And that's well before we get into the controversy of what an IQ test actually measures (though intended to be an inherent trait, people don't always perform equally well on it, and people with better educations perform better). But that's an entirely different can of worms, and my main point here is that you probably shouldn't make up facts, particularly when talking about intelligence.

 

[Nimcha]

No. Every single sample you read is crap. Just try any random one. Always crap.

Nice to see that you're making a difference with your quality contribution.

I never claimed I was. But really, comments, especially on a video or article about a certain view are almost always crap. Discussing things can be done on forums.

 

[Kingjackl]

So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

Let's face it, the only reason the most people react with this article, is the use of the harsh language, which of course is one of the signatures of the personality Yantzee have. Yes, he believe that most comments are useless, because he think there is no way in reality to chance the opinions of other people, or to be more specific, Yantzee's opinion about a game.
Now the question is I agree with his opinion? Of course not. However I acknowledge that he doesn't just plaint said he hate comments. He addressed his reasons why he believe that.
Finally if we put his opinion about the comments AND his well-known comedy/harsh language into the mix....VOILA!!!
We have this article!!!

Re-read the article and point out one thing he says in there that's actually comedic. The Academy Award manatee thing doesn't count, since he's just regurgitating a bit from a David Mitchell Soapbox rant that was funnier then. Also, I do believe he thinks that every human being who comments is a twat, because that's exactly what he says in his article. There's nothing wrong with harsh language, but the tone of the article is way too serious to be being ironic. It's disrespectful to the audience, and hypocritical of Yahtzee to decry this sort of thing since he arguably has more need for online comments than any of the big game publishers he's decrying.

If he is just joking, then it's a pretty bad joke is all I'm saying. We'd never be having this discussion about whether or not Jim Sterling really means it when he says "thank God for me", would we?

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I never claimed I was. But really, comments, especially on a video or article about a certain view are almost always crap. Discussing things can be done on forums.

That doesn't make any sense. This is a forum, and forums are composed of comments.

 

[NSGrendel]

Seriously though. After Extra Credits and Rebecca Mayes jumped ship, Mr Croshaw is the only erudite individual left on The Escapist. Also, Total Biscuit knows lots about Starcraft and is totally representational of English people.

 

[Klonoa Prower]

I believe the best sort of comment section would be one that says, "Your comment has been posted." after you type it... and then deletes it from the system.

 

[deathjavu]

I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.

Please. There are more opinionated, biased stories written as news articles by the day. They are well researched confirmation biases. No better than the comments section where more often than not your likely to find a commenter that points out all the holes in said article but also provide counterpoints and less biased statements.

This is not what you find in comments sections. If it is there, it's massively outweighed by the piles of dogshit surrounding it. Which leads me neatly to confirmation bias, which is what I actually described: "and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes," i.e., for people to go seek out irrational or disproven arguments in favor of their position, in the comments section.

The enabling of confirmation bias is exactly why the comments section is not beneficial. Before if someone disagreed, they had to go find a dissenting opinion elsewhere or form their own. Both of which are undoubtedly more involved and potentially educational than scrolling down a bit to see some random jackoff's ad hominem and taking that as an escape route.

 

[deathjavu]

I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.

Commenting on news stories, is no different than having a discussion about a news article on the train when people used to read the same newspaper as everyone else every day. It's an outlet for conversation and reflection.

Doesn't work as an analogy, no one interrupts with screaming obscenities and rape threats on the train.

Which is to say, the signal-to-noise ratio of a comments section is simply far, far too low on average to compare it to any sort of rational conversation where the actors are restrained to a bare minimum of decency, and a fairly minimal number of participants.

The worst part about the internet is the removal of most obstacles/barriers for publishing. Yes, previous obstacles and barriers were sometimes corrupt or faulty, and they managed to hold back a few innovative/creative types we would have enjoyed, but I greatly prefer a flawed filter to none at all. Now everyone on the planet self-publishes practically everything, and 95% of it is fucking retarded.

I guess I'm saying we've gained a few new voices that might have been stymied back in the day, but those fresh, intelligent producers are pretty well drown out by the vast surrounding oceans of mediocrity and idiocy.

The notion that all opinions are equally valid might be the root of some of the world's greatest ongoing problems.

I dunno about greatest, but certainly we have problems stemming from this. I hate to admit that the prevention of artistic creation is a good practice, but to some degree it does filter out the shit- and the internet has proven what a valuable service that is.

Could you imagine trying to pick a book from a library of everything that could be published on the internet? You would never find anything worth reading. Everything good is buried under mountainous piles of crap. And the library treats it as all the same, throws it up on the shelves and displays just the same.

Also, I saw that some people were having trouble distinguishing between an unmoderated comments section and a moderated forum? Which...really?

 

[mrdude2010]

Well, we may be twats, but at least most of us can spell "probably"

It was intended to be "provably." It is provably true that almost no comment has ever added anything to a video or article.

 

[SweetShark]

So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

Let's face it, the only reason the most people react with this article, is the use of the harsh language, which of course is one of the signatures of the personality Yantzee have. Yes, he believe that most comments are useless, because he think there is no way in reality to chance the opinions of other people, or to be more specific, Yantzee's opinion about a game.
Now the question is I agree with his opinion? Of course not. However I acknowledge that he doesn't just plaint said he hate comments. He addressed his reasons why he believe that.
Finally if we put his opinion about the comments AND his well-known comedy/harsh language into the mix....VOILA!!!
We have this article!!!

Re-read the article and point out one thing he says in there that's actually comedic. The Academy Award manatee thing doesn't count, since he's just regurgitating a bit from a David Mitchell Soapbox rant that was funnier then. Also, I do believe he thinks that every human being who comments is a twat, because that's exactly what he says in his article. There's nothing wrong with harsh language, but the tone of the article is way too serious to be being ironic. It's disrespectful to the audience, and hypocritical of Yahtzee to decry this sort of thing since he arguably has more need for online comments than any of the big game publishers he's decrying.

If he is just joking, then it's a pretty bad joke is all I'm saying. We'd never be having this discussion about whether or not Jim Sterling really means it when he says "thank God for me", would we?

But my friend, I never said I liked this use of his comedy in this specific article.
I just said Yantzee have an opinion, a false opinion for me, but still he have his reasons. And I respect that.
Now do I think again Yatzee by calling all the peoples twats is a good comedy? Not in this article.
I have more serious things to get angry about than him anyways. In the real world that is.

 

[Bertylicious]

I for one worry about Yahtzee; he seems to have very negative feelings towards his own jism. It's always "wank stain" this and "smelling of off milk" that. Our semen is a part of us and we are allowed to love ourselves!

Perhaps using more upbeat terms such as "love cream" or "joy juice" would be a positive move?

 

[Casual Shinji]

So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

You can't really blame people for thinking that, as this article comes across as a giant, unprovoked 'fuck you' to anyone whose ever posted a comment on one of Yahtzee's videos or articles. Anyone who is a fan and genuinely wanted to share their opinions on what he discussed. Maybe even in the hope of reaching out to him.

Now it's no secret Yahtzee wouldn't be caught dead on the forums here, but to suddenly turn around and attack everyone else who does spend their time here is a dick move.

Even if it is all just a joke (people can't comment on this LOL), it's one at the expense of his own audience for his own personal amusement.

 

[AgentLampshade]

I'm just here to laugh at the irony of this article topping the "most commented" section.

Y'know, I've always had the impression Yahtzee never actually read any comments of his anyway, aside from maybe emails sent to him.

 

[Bad Jim]

I personally think it's a very selfish, self centered, stupid rant where he doesn't even really acknowledge that perhaps his stuff may be deemed by others to be a waste of digital ink and he should shut up.

You only hear what he has to say if you actually click on his content. If you don't want his opinion you won't get it. But you'll get the opinion of every retard on the internet under the content you actually want, regardless of whether you wanted them.

And some sites like Youtube make it even worse by having strict character limits, so if you ever want to say anything intelligent you find you don't have the space. It's a retard-only system.

 

[SweetShark]

So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

You can't really blame people for thinking that, as this article comes across as a giant, unprovoked 'fuck you' to anyone whose ever posted a comment on one of Yahtzee's videos or articles. Anyone who is a fan and genuinely wanted to share their opinions on what he discussed. Maybe even in the hope of reaching out to him.

Now it's no secret Yahtzee wouldn't be caught dead on the forums here, but to suddenly turn around and attack everyone else who does spend their time here is a dick move.

Even if it is all just a joke (people can't comment on this LOL), it's one at the expense of his own audience for his own personal amusement.

But even he said he hate comments, he also wanted to hear us telling our opinion about his new game Consuming Shadow.
If he though all our comment are useless, he would never made some change for his game. He would had just said:

"f*ck them! I am a superior human Being and I never made a mistake. My new game is a masterpiece and everyone must suck it to their dirty dry mouths. Thank God for me!!!! [plot twist!!]"

He don't think all of us are assh*les. He just made a big bad joke for hating specific type of comments in the wrong time.
I mean, think about. What if his mother one day want to leave a comment in one of his videos/articles? I can't even think of this heresy...

 

[MaddKossack115]

When it comes to videos I think that comments are great for feedback and I find It funny that a reviewer can?t see that.

I think that's because Yahtzhee looked up too many comments that, like he said, either repeat the funniest bits, expands the funny stuff to the point the joke is beaten to death, or just gives dumbass stuff contributing absolutely nothing (like "FIRST!" or the long, rambling, "insane troll logic" arguments). Believe me, I could guess a guy already as cynical as Yahtzee would just give the fuck up on comments after reading 100 comments like that - I only reckon there's only 1 to 3 comments that give legitimate feedback out of about 300 dumbass comments, and that Yahtzee isn't the sort to think it's worth it to find a gem of a comment out of hundreds of dumbass ones.

I don?t really get the point of comments in games but it?s not like it?s hurting somebody unless you try to make it a problem like you?re doing.

Well true, and I think Yahtzee shot himself in the foot when he basically admitted "I could have turned off the comments, but then I wouldn't have gotten to complain about it". What, he couldn't just take the option to turn them off, and then complain that we should really turn the comment option off first chance we get?

That said, the comments option definitely seemed out of place for a Mario game, and Yahtzee is right in that any comments would be too late to change the game design. The comments option would probably work better for multiplayer-oriented games (like FPS-deathmatch games, MMORPGs, LoL/DOTA, etc.), or games planning to use lots of DLCs/patches post-release. True, this may only end up aiding-and-abetting the crime of "releasing a game before it's finished", but at least you'd be able to tell off the idiots who made an unfinished game straight off, and not waste time marching over to a computer, looking up the forums, and writing the comment there.

 

[Tim Chuma]

Didn't Charlie Brooker already do this line?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/28/too-much-talk-charlie-brooker

At least now you've got it off your chest you don't have to do another "I hate comments" piece. Wasn't there are video in the early days where Yahtzee read out all the worst comments?

 

[Kittyhawk]

Ben, you shouldn't let hecklers get to you. There will always be those who seek to splurge opinion without thinking things through, but you'll get that anywhere. And since it was a Nintendo related piece that ruffled your ire, that doesn't surprise at all.

We get it, you can criticize or praise anything on the internets, except Nintendo (cough cough, rubbish!). Some of the staunch fans are beyond any reasonable point and counter point debate, a real pity for all gamers. Some treat them like the robot gaming Pope or something, when that's not true.

Besides, you can't have the smooth without some roughage. There are a lot of good comments online, that deserve to be read, than some of the ill thought drivel beyond reading that's around.

 

[Areloch]

Well true, and I think Yahtzee shot himself in the foot when he basically admitted "I could have turned off the comments, but then I wouldn't have gotten to complain about it". What, he couldn't just take the option to turn them off, and then complain that we should really turn the comment option off first chance we get?

I can't say I'm fond of this line of reasoning, even if most of the time it's completely correct. There's lots of stuff where it makes sense to just 'turn it off', but that shouldn't excuse completely flawed designs.
There are very few situations I can think of where letting players throw down commentary on the level/game IN the level/game where it not only doesn't destroy immersion into the game, but actually makes sense.

The only one that comes to mind is Dark Souls, which restricted user comments to semi-predetermined phrases, all of which were oriented towards the gameplay as it happened. Turning it off didn't really lose you much, but you'd sometimes get useful hints or at least some amusing comments about what's happening as you experience it yourself.

But If you were to try and drop user comments into most other games, it doesn't make nearly as much sense. Mario, Zelda, Unreal Tournament, Mass Effect, and so on.
Sure, you could turn off the feature, but if it adds exactly nothing, and likely directly inhibits the game experience, why is it there at all?

As for the article, I can't say I was bothered by it. It was, as I read it, intentionally overzealous to get a rise out of people that think they were being insulted - but as others pointed out, he's directly asked for comments on stuff he makes before, like his games.

I think it's less 'no one should ever talk other than content creators' and more 'if the comments aren't, or even CANNOT be relevant, why would we even allow it?'
Rules on the forums here keep things from being snap comments, and as on-topic as possible. Random facebook comments, or basically anything on youtube will never have that, and so it makes you question why you would want that garbage to share space with the content you put effort into producing.