Tokyo's "Anti-Anime" Bill Sparks Convention Wars

Danzaivar

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I'll be honest, I'm in favour of this. Anime gets wayyy too close to porn a lot of the time, kids watching this stuff half the time is just messed up.

If it was an outright ban that would be fair enough for the outrage, but keeping it out of kids hands makes sense to me. Especially when you consider how messed up people think Japan is sexually, ha.
 

Danzaivar

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Grimrider6 said:
MrJoyless said:
art is art...and CP is CP

seriously tho this law takes things in VERY much the wrong direction i feel almost everyone is missing the point...

Japan is one of the last civilized nations that allows the sexual depiction of children as long as its animated this law is aimed to stop something that is not art...its sick and if you think adults having sex with children is art then you too are sick...

this law does go too far in its language but with a closer look maybe this nasty little loophole that has existed for waaaay too long might finally be closed.
I repeat again, a drawn depiction of a crime is not morally equivalent to a crime. Loli manga is lines on paper, nothing more. Can you explain why a drawing should be illegal based purely on it's content?
Just to clarify - You can't see anything wrong with a depiction of children being abused?
 

Negatempest

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Let's see....Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan would be relegated, GTO would be relegated, Golden Boy would be relegated, Naruto would have to tread lightly (they can consider the physical abuse of the female ninjas as pornographic content) One Piece would have to tread lightly (Nami's like 16-ish at best and wears almost nothing depending on the situation). Dragon Ball Z may actually be okay. Pretty Cure...nope gone.

I will say this. Japan is one of the countries that views sexuality as a norm compared to us (Americans) who view is as some taboo, which is total B.S. Sexuality is normal, it is human, to deny that or even control it....****in stupid and egotistic in so many levels.
 

Toriver

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Negatempest said:
Let's see....Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan would be relegated, GTO would be relegated, Golden Boy would be relegated, Naruto would have to tread lightly (they can consider the physical abuse of the female ninjas as pornographic content) One Piece would have to tread lightly (Nami's like 16-ish at best and wears almost nothing depending on the situation). Dragon Ball Z may actually be okay. Pretty Cure...nope gone.

I will say this. Japan is one of the countries that views sexuality as a norm compared to us (Americans) who view is as some taboo, which is total B.S. Sexuality is normal, it is human, to deny that or even control it....****in stupid and egotistic in so many levels.
Let's see from what I know of who watches and reads what in anime usually...

Gurren Legann... I have no idea how that would be treated. I see absolutely zero Gurren Legann manga, anime or advertising around, and never have since I got here.
GTO actually might be OK. They just had another movie out last year, which makes me think it might be popular enough to save itself.
I'm sorry, but Golden Boy needs to be relegated anyway. That IS for adults.
I can GUARANTEE you and would bet my life's savings on One Piece being absolutely 100% safe from relegation. It is the almost undisputed king of children's anime and manga here, and as much as I say it's a problem, it would take more than Nami's full figure to send it to the back room. If One Piece was declared 18+, there would be a huge reverse parental outcry against the law.
By the same token, I think Naruto should be fine too, as another one of the "Big 3" along with Bleach. Though that's not to say that Naruto and Bleach don't have problems with sexualization (mostly in Bleach) and large amounts of violence (in both) that need to be worked out. To pull a recent economic buzzword, those three are "too big to fail". The board would be shooting itself in the foot if it declared those 18+.
 

eelel

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SnootyEnglishman said:
This is just silly and really really stupid.
I understant if you are not a fan of anime and manga but you don't need to be rude to those of us who think this is a big deal.
 

SnootyEnglishman

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eelel said:
SnootyEnglishman said:
This is just silly and really really stupid.
I understant if you are not a fan of anime and manga but you don't need to be rude to those of us who think this is a big deal.
I was referring to the bill and the vague rules of it.
 

eelel

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SnootyEnglishman said:
eelel said:
SnootyEnglishman said:
This is just silly and really really stupid.
I understant if you are not a fan of anime and manga but you don't need to be rude to those of us who think this is a big deal.
I was referring to the bill and the vague rules of it.
OK sorry for the missunderstanding.
 

Grimrider6

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Danzaivar said:
Grimrider6 said:
MrJoyless said:
art is art...and CP is CP

seriously tho this law takes things in VERY much the wrong direction i feel almost everyone is missing the point...

Japan is one of the last civilized nations that allows the sexual depiction of children as long as its animated this law is aimed to stop something that is not art...its sick and if you think adults having sex with children is art then you too are sick...

this law does go too far in its language but with a closer look maybe this nasty little loophole that has existed for waaaay too long might finally be closed.
I repeat again, a drawn depiction of a crime is not morally equivalent to a crime. Loli manga is lines on paper, nothing more. Can you explain why a drawing should be illegal based purely on it's content?
Just to clarify - You can't see anything wrong with a depiction of children being abused?
No, I can't. Fictional depictions are just that - fictional. You can dislike them, even hate them... but those aren't good reasons to outlaw them.

Do you see anything wrong with a depiction of a person being shot? Or a city being bombed? These are horrible, heinous acts in real life too. Surely you wouldn't condone banning all fictional depictions of violence as well.
 

Grimrider6

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Danzaivar said:
I'll be honest, I'm in favour of this. Anime gets wayyy too close to porn a lot of the time, kids watching this stuff half the time is just messed up.

If it was an outright ban that would be fair enough for the outrage, but keeping it out of kids hands makes sense to me. Especially when you consider how messed up people think Japan is sexually, ha.
Seriously, please read the content and scope of the bill before you comment.

http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/something-people-overseas-can-do-fight-misconceptions-about-bill-156-and-japan/
 

Grimrider6

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Mcface said:
Seriously if you cant make a story without having a 10 year old girl have sex or be naked, then your shit deserves to be banned.

U mad pedophiles?
Loli isn't being banned. It's barely even covered by this law.

Read before you troll, son.
 

Tony2077

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this is like that internet bill that was going on in the usa but worse since it seem to have gone all the way.
 

Vycoul22

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Bhaalspawn said:
I'm reminded of that ENN Joke

"Tokyo has passed a law prohibiting compromising images of underage girls in video games and anime. In related news, Japanese economy crumbling as we speak."
This whole concept that Japans economy is based on hentai, hell, even anime is idiotic!

THEY. ARE. BUSINESS. MEN. I mean come on. Chances are, your computer, your car, or your phone are made IN Japan, or BY a Japanese company. Oh and your videogame consoles? Nintendo and Sony are Japanese companies, just in case you need reminding.

Comments like, "Japans main export is hentai" and such, only displays people's ignorance.
Yes I know that this is mainly a joke but, I am seeing people say some pretty stupid things and that makes my think "are they really that dumb?"

And to the confused bunch that thinks any one who opposes this bill is a pedophile, please get your facts straight. I abhor the anime you are thinking of just as much is you do however, I think that this bill could potentially endanger the distribution many normal anime, manga, and even games by labeling as porn.
 

Grimrider6

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Vycoul22 said:
THEY. ARE. BUSINESS. MEN. I mean come on. Chances are, your computer, your car, or your phone are made IN Japan, or BY a Japanese company. Oh and your videogame consoles? Nintendo and Sony are Japanese companies, just in case you need reminding.
I agree with you here, but just to clarify, Japan is an export-driven economy, and right now the comparative value of the yen is sky-high. This is terrible for exports, because it makes their goods more expensive in overseas markets compared to domestic goods. If the prices overseas remain fixed, then it translates to reduced profit on all overseas revenue.

Combine that with a terrible bout of deflation right now that's driving down consumer spending, and you've got a very bad economic situation. The anime/comic book/video game market, however, IS largely domestic. And it pumps a lot of money into the economy, because most of the local fans are far from fiscally responsible when spending on their hobby.

In short, while anime and games are not the sole pillar of the Japanese economy, they are a big one. Hurting it at this point in time, when every other pillar is weak, may well have a very unfortunate impact on the economy as a whole.
 

Danzaivar

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Grimrider6 said:
Danzaivar said:
I'll be honest, I'm in favour of this. Anime gets wayyy too close to porn a lot of the time, kids watching this stuff half the time is just messed up.

If it was an outright ban that would be fair enough for the outrage, but keeping it out of kids hands makes sense to me. Especially when you consider how messed up people think Japan is sexually, ha.
Seriously, please read the content and scope of the bill before you comment.

http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/something-people-overseas-can-do-fight-misconceptions-about-bill-156-and-japan/
That does nothing to address my comment. Which was that they aren't banning this stuff, just classing it as pornography so kids can't look at it.

Which is a completely sensible move, tbh.
 

RagnorakTres

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Danzaivar said:
That does nothing to address my comment. Which was that they aren't banning this stuff, just classing it as pornography so kids can't look at it.

Which is a completely sensible move, tbh.
I believe he was actually trying to point you to this [http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/bill-156s-total-scope/] post on that 'blog, which is linked internally. Though I would read both all the way through, dude seems like he knows what he's on about[footnote]Please note that I've never seen this particular 'blog before today, but the combination of linked sources and grammatically correct English dazzled me a bit.[/footnote].
 

Grimrider6

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Danzaivar said:
That does nothing to address my comment. Which was that they aren't banning this stuff, just classing it as pornography so kids can't look at it.

Which is a completely sensible move, tbh.
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant to indicate this section of the post:

Extreme sex manga, i.e. manga that is sexually stimulating, is already subject to restriction. Bill 156 attempts to regulate anti-social and immoral depictions portrayal of sexual relationships that the authors of the bill believe could contribute to the delinquency of youth.

As you already know, Tokyo already has the power to designate anything that is too sexually stimulating for minors OR too sadistic for minors OR too likely to cause criminal acts among minors OR cause suicide among minors as ?harmful material?, and force such material to be treated as adult only material.

Bill 156, essentially stipulates all sexual acts that would be illegal in real life OR sexual depictions between close relatives who could not legally get married to be treated as adult material if they are presented in ?unjustifiably glorified or exaggerated manner.?
(Emphasis mine)

This bill has nothing to do with "porn", which is already regulated by the Tokyo Municipal government, and which is also subject to another level of internal self-regulation by the publishers themselves. This bill grants a board of legislators the unchecked power to decide what constitutes "anti-social and immoral" relationships and slap an AO label on it.

There has been a lot of speculation in this thread about whether or not GTO or One Piece of any other number of comic books, video games, or animated series' would fall under this law. The simple fact is, thanks to it being extremely broad, any of them could fall under it, and the only people who can make that decision would be the review board. If they make an unjust or questionable decision, there is no process to re-review, no appeals process. At no point during this will the actual comic book or publishing industry be consulted. Their input has already been deemed unnecessary.

Labeling a comic book series AO for simply featuring "relationships that would be illegal in real life" hurts the industry by indiscriminately forcing otherwise innocent books into the backroom alongside the hardcore pornography. This would, in turn, cause their sales to be slashed considerably, forcing the industry to churn out approved material that fails to offend the unknowable sensibilities of the review board.

And even worse, regardless of whether the material ends up in the hands of children or not, if a publisher creates six or more works that offend the review board in a one year period, they can be subject to penalties and public defamation by the Office of the Governor of Tokyo. Not for breaking any regulation, but for simply making too many things that offend them.

To add insult to injury, the law is specifically written to exclude photographic, film, or written works from the same penalties and restrictions. In effect, a movie remake of the novel Lolita is perfectly acceptable to go unregulated. But if you make the anime version of it, you could be slapped with a warning and have it shoved behind the 18+ curtain. IF the review board happens to feel like it. And if they do, there's nothing you can do about it.

In short, this law does nothing to "keep porn out of the hands of children". That is already covered by existing laws. It reeks of Ishihara carrying out his personal vendetta against the comic book and anime industry. And he uses the cover of "let's protect children" to sway everybody into agreeing with him. Apparently it's working, because everybody seems easily thrown off by believing this law is simply about classifying porn.

[/rant]