Tomb Raider Dev: Rape is Not in Our Vocabulary

ReinWeisserRitter

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Oh, right. It's not implied rape or analogous to rape because you didn't actually use the word "rape". Thanks for clearing that up, guys.

Clarification: I'm not actually bothered by this issue; we portray others in horrible ways all the time, and this isn't any worse, if not any better, either. What strikes me as ridiculous is the justification for what's being portrayed.
 

Wolfram23

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Overquoted said:
Except it's not a mortal scuffle with Lara Croft, and that's the point. If you genuinely can't see that guy gearing up for some good ol' fashioned sexual violence, then I don't think you understand what attempted rape is. Just because he didn't get far with it doesn't change his intentions. Your contrast with Drake...if another dude had Drake tied up and then began pressing himself against Drake and running his hands down his body, yes, people would assume that Drake was in danger of some Deliverance-style torture. A "mortal scuffle" can be accomplished without any form of sexualization. See: every Lara Croft game prior to this.
Well I'm looking at - literally looking at, on my desk - my copy of Tomb Raider on PC CDROM copyright 1996 Core Design Limited and Eidos Interactive Limited. And guess what? There's a big pixelated picture of Lara and her huge tits.

This just occurred to me. Lara has always been a sex object. Always. Now, in the trailer we see her in a desperate struggle against that issue, and she fucking kicks ass. Maybe that's a good thing?

If this had happened to a Lara Croft who was older, or just seemed less vulnerable, I doubt anyone would draw the conclusion that the attempt had some major effect on her. I also doubt it'd have played out the way it did. She'd have sneered at him instead of displaying fear. The trailer made her a victim by her actions, not just by his.
What trailer did you see? She had her hands tied and fought like a tiger! Fear?? Sure, everyone's got to be afraid. But she kicks the guy in the nuts, bites his neck, and shoots him in the face. All this while also being injured. She is not a victim here - she could have been, perhaps, but she is not.

I get that rape can be a sensitive issue to some people. I read the article about it the other day, written by a rape victim when he was 7. I think that's terrible and should not be taken lightly (like chanting "RAPE! RAPE!" during Game of Thrones). However, I just feel that it's not completely out of place here. Yeah, it's probably one of the worst things someone can go through besides (or maybe equal to) torture. It's really bad.

However what we see is a woman who is persevering. Her fight or flight instinct is obviously fight. She doesn't give up, she does what she has to do.

Suffice it to say, I think it's a powerful scene and shows Lara's true mettle: she's a survivor; a fighter.

(Catpcha: On the ball)
 

Dogstile

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Mirrorknight said:
Wow. Really? ...I mean...seriously?

Do people even listen to themselves speak? A little groping doesn't constitute sexual assault? Ugh.
Don't listen to grey, he never said that anywhere in the interview. Go to the source and actually read it yourself. I was thinking "you fucking idiots" until I actually read it, then I got pissed at grey for blowing that out of context.
 

Swiftkillz

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She gets herself in to dangerous situations and is captured a few times, it is not inconceivable that henchman#778 would attempt sexually assault her before beating her to death.
 

BloodRed Pixel

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NOW I see clear, he just wants to give her a nice massage to make friends with her.

Mr. Stewart I wish you much "close physical intimidation"-situations in you life...
because, as you say it's no big deal.
 

Zaik

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To be honest, i'd have had more respect for them if they just went full out double middle fingers like Ninja Theory did over DmC.

But I guess circumstances are different, anything having to do with sex is monsters-under-the-bed scary in the US.
 

The Random One

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I'm not a racist! In fact, I don't even know the word "black"!

Guys, having a guy with intentions to rape and refuse to call it rape is even worse.
Iron Lightning said:
Well, there goes the only interesting thing about this new Tomb Raider game. For a few days I thought someone in the AAA gaming industry finally grew some balls but I guess not.
If you've been following the controversy, you'll have noticed that, even if they had grown balls, they don't know how to use them.

Also the Escapist's summary manages to make their statement even worse. I'm actually kind of impressed that's even possible, but show a bit of that journalistic integrity you had once and change it.
 

GloatingSwine

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Wolfram23 said:
Well I'm looking at - literally looking at, on my desk - my copy of Tomb Raider on PC CDROM copyright 1996 Core Design Limited and Eidos Interactive Limited. And guess what? There's a big pixelated picture of Lara and her huge tits.

This just occurred to me. Lara has always been a sex object. Always. Now, in the trailer we see her in a desperate struggle against that issue, and she fucking kicks ass. Maybe that's a good thing?
Yes, and she's also always been confident and in control. Here, not so much. That's a major part of the issue, this is not a "fight or flight" response, this is Lara as a "cornered animal" (also the words of the executive producer).

The scene is a deliberate attempt to remove all control from the hands of a female character, by threatening her with sexual violence (which, it bears repeating because some people still don't get that this is important, happens to female characters vastly more frequently than it does to male characters) so that male gamers can feel all big and proud when they "protect" her. Also the words of the executive producer.

When feminists talk about "rape culture" this is they type of thing they are talking about, the use of sexual violence against women in media for the sake of cheap drama. It is something which needs to stop, it is bad and lazy storytelling.

Sexual violence in fiction is currently not treated with the severity it should be. I am reminded of what Bryan Talbot said about writing The Tale of One Bad Rat, where he had initially intended to use child abuse as a catalyst for the story, provoking the main character to run away from home, but when he started researching the issue he realised that that wasn't the right way to approach it, it had to be the story because it was too important a social issue to treat so casually. Sexual violence should be the same, it should not be handled casually, and this type of thing, using it as a disposable catalyst for a completely unrelated story is handling it casually.

It needs to stop. Not just in games, in every form of media.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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I am still wondering. Were people angry because of what the man said or because of the trailer. Because I saw nothing wrong with the trailer.
 

Condiments

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kurupt87 said:
Condiments said:
kurupt87 said:
If you worry about the fetishes of people involving anything even remotely sexual in game before making it then you couldn't ever have anything remotely sexual in game. Heck, even non sexual things become sexual given the right (aka wrong) fan base.
There is a certain difference between creating a scenario where you want to defend your character from undesirably outcomes(like death, in most games), and exploiting a female character, and a controversial issue such as rape to appeal to our need to "protect someone". It turns an otherwise good moral judgement(preventing rape=good) into a marketing tactic that takes advantage/patronizes both the male gamers playing it, and trivializes a difficult issue and reality that women/men have to deal with. Rape itself should not be used to appeal to our inner "white knight". Its a topic that deserves the respect of material it is represented in, and the audience that will be experiencing it.
Bollocks.

If the character is liked and harm is indicated then the white knight will appear, there is no choice. It doesn't matter if it's film, book, tv or game; if the character is liked the consumer will wish grievous harm not to occur.

There is no difference between wanting to protect your character from death or protecting them from rape. In fact, real world I'd choose to protect someone from death over rape.

The only reason this is a big deal is because of the stupid youtube docu explosion and because rape is sexual. Just because death doesn't mean anything to the gamer anymore doesn't mean that it doesn't actually mean anything; it taking the unaccustomed mention of rape to remind players that their actions have story consequences (or even cutscene inactions just giving weight) is a good thing.
So you don't think the utilization of subject such as RAPE as a means to pander to male audience("white knights") isn't somehow morally dubious? I don't see how being blind to a subject matter's societal implications is desirable, as you could easily destroy the integrity of your story by pandering to the lowest common denominator(white knights). There is a very distinct difference when dealing with the subject with the respect it deserves, or including it for shock value. Them mentioning rape as a character building experience for Lara is representative of their insensitive treatment of the subject.
 

Condiments

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Blablahb said:
SacremPyrobolum said:
I am still wondering. Were people angry because of what the man said or because of the trailer. Because I saw nothing wrong with the trailer.
But, but, but, it implied sex of any kind in any form. I mean, women prancing around nearly naked, good. Men looking like pushing steroids 24/7 is the only way to be masculine, good. Extreme violence, good. Promoting violence as a resolution to problems, good. Specifically showing firearms to be a solution while people already murder one another daily, good.

But implying sex? Ahmygawd!! That's going to corrupt the suburban American kids and destroy the family and society almost as badly as a picture of two men kissing eachother.

Clearly such a vile thing must be banned.
I think there was more a implication of rape, rather than consensual sex. Clearly two very different things unless you've got a very warped view of sexual activity.

I think more people are freaking out about Rosenberg's comments, which in turn put everything else in the trailer into questionable territory. Going by his comments, they're deliberately torturing her to get a "kick" out of their male audience into protecting her. Throw in the weird continuous sexual screams as she jumps about, mixture of both regular violence, and implied sexual violence....and you've got strange case of pandering going on. Honestly, I don't think that is really their intention behind the game, but it poses a disturbing question.

Imagine if in Uncharted 2 when Drake gets grievously injured in the train crash, the player has to press a sequence of buttons to escape a gang bang once the guards find in him the wreckage. It'd be jarring and out of place, and certainly wouldn't fit thematically within the context of the game.
 

GloatingSwine

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Blablahb said:
But, but, but, it implied sex of any kind in any form. I mean, women prancing around nearly naked, good. Men looking like pushing steroids 24/7 is the only way to be masculine, good. Extreme violence, good. Promoting violence as a resolution to problems, good. Specifically showing firearms to be a solution while people already murder one another daily, good.

But implying sex? Ahmygawd!! That's going to corrupt the suburban American kids and destroy the family and society almost as badly as a picture of two men kissing eachother.

Clearly such a vile thing must be banned.
No-one has actually been saying anything like that at all.

This issue has all been about rape and sexual violence. Attempting to deflect it in this manner is dishonesty of the lowest calibre.