Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?

[Luciella]

Maybe when its no longer an issue. Want to know why racism is still broached upon in videogames? Because racism still exists, and most developers seem to think that is a bad thing, and want to do something about it. How is it any different if the developer is trying to convery a viewpoint or start some thinking within the player about homosexuality and homophobia instead?

Yes and misogyny exists as well, and that doesn't stop everyone to know and try to do something about it (or be threatened to death and rape like Sarkeesian), but as well to be sick and tired of having to discuss it everyday, every month, every year.

Is "because I can still be kicked out of my apartment in 38 states without warning because my landlord is a 'phobe" a good enough answer for you?

Okay and?
Your case is sad and i cant do anything about it, but dont victimize yourself, your hardly the only suffering being on this earth for something u have being born with.
You know i could be kicked out of my apartment in any country of the world because im a female, and the owner could either be a misogynist or want to do me but i dont want to?
Sad case as well.

They want to do more than be a brainless game that actually tries to make a commentary. Now I wouldn't want every single game to be doing that, people still like Saints Row 3, but is that really such a bad thing, especially when few games are daring to be so brave about it? Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Spec Ops: The Line were extremely brave games, and people love them. To me, they were both their respective Game of the Year. Done poorly, commentary comes off like a bad high school environmental club project. Done well, and people will be talking about it for years, and it will change their life. Not done at all, and its a mindless time sink, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if I were in the shoes of the artists behind the game, I would push for the former, and try to do something very meaningful.

Dude, i dont want it to be gay-meaningful. I dont like it, i dont want to have to now be fed by force about it like im being fed with bikini armors and -for show- female characters. Im tired, of having to yet again endure things i just dont like.
Want a gay-meaningful character? Its good, let the producers know and let them make a whole new game about that and targeted to the LGBT or whoever wants to watch. But i wont buy it, because im not interested on it as im not interested in say self-help books or advanced chemistry courses.

Maybe people like to combat a large portion of the population who doesn't even think homosexuality should be legal by telling them that their beliefs are outdated and no longer welcome in their circle?

Seriously, the only thing i want is to be respected as heterosexual.
Gays can go ahead and marry, adopt kids, have threesomes or whatever floats their boat.
I only want that something that is being sold to me stay the way it was originally thought and not changed because "hey ho! everybody is making something gay! here we go!"

They're not making it an H-game. The "OMG lesbians hawt!1!" fantasy is about sex and only sex. Nobody gets wet over thinking about how Lara's new girlfriend has been disowned by her family because she dared to be attracted to an intelligent, morally sound and successful archeologist.

Have you ever heard any guy talk about their lesbians fantasies?...Anything sells even a lil kiss. And personally im tired of enduring that.

Did you even read the article? The writer discussing this idea is a woman. This isn't an instance of "omg look lesbian titties dudes buy this game and jerk off now!" Its not Girls Gone Wild. Its serious, its mature, its critical, thought-provoking. Its simply art. Shouldn't we want some of that every now and then in our medium?

Yes i read it, and unnerves me that the writer would have "loved" to make Lara gay , because reading btwn lines "hey its easier to write about a powerful girl being gay -because it fits more the labels- than a capable, strong heterosexual woman"
Or simply go crazy and get fame out of the controversy.

 

[A Distant Star]

So are you saying that Bayonetta is a better depiction of women in video games because she is flirting and toying with every guy she meets? Constantly striking sexy poses??!!? Because such character depiction was lambasted for that.

I can not speak to Bayonetta, I know less about it then I do Tomb Raider. All I can say about Bayonetta is, man do I have a lot of female friends who sit all over the place on the sexual identity spectrum who love the shit out of that game.

There does come a point when I am unable to talk about Tomb Raider the game, I have only played the very first one and the newest one. (loved the newest one found the first one almost unplayable) So yes, I will gladly admit my own ignorance towards the character as she exists with in the archetype of her own games... cause I really dont know shit about shit. I should have been more clear, I am talking about Lara Croft the pop culture icon, who had at one point, grown far beyond the scope of her games.

 

[Treblaine]

How can you people talk about a romantic fling thing with Lara and Sam when Sam clearly talked about them meeting cute guys?

Because they make convoluted explanations about how that doesn't mean what's obviously implicit there.

What's obviously implicit is that Sam thought those guys were cute and not necessarily anyone else thought that.

What Sam thinks is not the same as what Lara thinks. They are two separate individuals.

If you read the interview you'll find Rihanna Pretchett didn't actually make any decisions nor discuss this with anyone else in the creative team, still Lara's sexuality is undecided.

Don't retcon beloved characters into things just to please whatever happens to be a hot topic right now. Make genuine characters for these games or whatever.

It is genuine. Lara's sexuality has never been explicit before.

Stop acting like this ruins her.

And don't complain about pandering when the pandering here is clear. It is the pandering to savage and grim violence, in what's supposed to be a relatively non-violent game about the wonder of exploration and discovery the game has been turned into some guerilla warfare game of cover-based shooting and such a lack of any exploration, with the simplest environmental challenges.

You know I look back and forth between the video Jim made about how there needs to be more women in games and everyone being on board with that, and this thread with people being against a well known female character being gay, and I can't help but be really confused.

Not that confusing really. It's not about gay characters, it's about taking a character with more than a decade of history and fan attachments and a distinct lack of 'gayness' and 'making her gay' in the words of the author. To be fair to her, it was no more than a contemplation she had.

Lack of gayness?!?!!? WHAT!!! You can't be serious.

Being Gay isn't an attitude, it's simply the gender preference in intimate relationships. There is not "ness" about it, there is not "Straightness" unless you are talking about geometry.

And she's never had any intimate relationships in any of the previous games. She's never given any indication of her preference of all the men and women she's met she'd never hinted at sexual interest in either. If you've made any assumption about her sexual preference it's exactly that, assumption.

And you're in no position to complain about the series being changed, it has bloody well changed, from the magical feeling of adventure and mysticism to harrowing horror of killing, by Tomb Raider being another cover based shooter with brutal neck snapping silent-takedowns and the lead character crying her eyes out over the horror of it all.

 

[A Distant Star]

They want to do more than be a brainless game that actually tries to make a commentary. Now I wouldn't want every single game to be doing that, people still like Saints Row 3, but is that really such a bad thing, especially when few games are daring to be so brave about it? Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Spec Ops: The Line were extremely brave games, and people love them. To me, they were both their respective Game of the Year. Done poorly, commentary comes off like a bad high school environmental club project. Done well, and people will be talking about it for years, and it will change their life. Not done at all, and its a mindless time sink, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if I were in the shoes of the artists behind the game, I would push for the former, and try to do something very meaningful.

Dude, i dont want it to be gay-meaningful. I dont like it, i dont want to have to now be fed by force about it like im being fed with bikini armors and -for show- female characters. Im tired, of having to yet again endure things i just dont like.
Want a gay-meaningful character? Its good, let the producers know and let them make a whole new game about that and targeted to the LGBT or whoever wants to watch. But i wont buy it, because im not interested on it as im not interested in say self-help books or advanced chemistry courses.

And here's where your homophobia really shows. What about all the gay people out there who don't want to be force fed everything being straight? This is a position born of pure privilege. Rihanna Pratchett having a character she is writing come out as gay is not -force feeding- you anything. It's Pratchetts prerogative as a creator to move a character in what ever direction she feels is appropriat and she doesn't have to deal with your entitlement to do it. Is there a problem with how women are represented in games? Yes absolulty. The problem extends to gay women as much as straight women. You're attitude is just as immature and problematic as the chauvinist who push female characters to the back of the box. Every one wants there own slice of the cake, but never wants to share it with any one else. If this is the attitude female players are going to express? Well, I think I might be done with this whole issue and just go back to playing my dudebro games. Why should I fight for female representation in games when this is how women are going to act? Disgraceful.

 

[Treblaine]

So are you saying that Bayonetta is a better depiction of women in video games because she is flirting and toying with every guy she meets? Constantly striking sexy poses??!!? Because such character depiction was lambasted for that.

I can not speak to Bayonetta, I know less about it then I do Tomb Raider. All I can say about Bayonetta is, man do I have a lot of female friends who sit all over the place on the sexual identity spectrum who love the shit out of that game.

There does come a point when I am unable to talk about Tomb Raider the game, I have only played the very first one and the newest one. (loved the newest one found the first one almost unplayable) So yes, I will gladly admit my own ignorance towards the character as she exists with in the archetype of her own games... cause I really dont know shit about shit. I should have been more clear, I am talking about Lara Croft the pop culture icon, who had at one point, grown far beyond the scope of her games.

But you must know OF Bayonetta. From the little you've seen of that, is that preferable? If not then what balance is there?

I'm not going to ask you for someone else's opinion.

You can't cop out of this, when you spoke so much about Tomb Raider series.

Let me guess, when you played the first one from 1996... did you read the manual? The manual that NO ONE read.

Yeah, you press jump THEN the direction to determine the direction. To do a running jump you must step at least one block back and press forward THEN jump, and you have to press jump BEFORE you get to the edge. That's why most people can't play it, they didn't read the manual. And also why even those who played the first Tomb Raider don't know her back story, which is explained in the manual.

I am talking about Lara Croft the pop culture icon

Well that's as irrelevant to this topic.

We're all talking about the games. I guess Lara Croft is an example of how games are better off remaining obscure and unknown, as what little the print media does find out about her will misrepresent it for sensationalism.

 

[A Distant Star]

It is genuine. Lara's sexuality has never been explicit before.

Stop acting like this ruins her.

And don't complain about pandering when the pandering here is clear. It is the pandering to savage and grim violence, in what's supposed to be a relatively non-violent game about the wonder of exploration and discovery the game has been turned into some guerilla warfare game of cover-based shooting and such a lack of any exploration, with the simplest environmental challenges.

Here here!

Also, wouldn't basing her sexuality on all these entitled people who think they have some claim to Lara being straight just be pandering that demographic instead? Sorry to say people, but having Lara be straight just for your sake... well thats pandering to.

 

[A Distant Star]

So are you saying that Bayonetta is a better depiction of women in video games because she is flirting and toying with every guy she meets? Constantly striking sexy poses??!!? Because such character depiction was lambasted for that.

I can not speak to Bayonetta, I know less about it then I do Tomb Raider. All I can say about Bayonetta is, man do I have a lot of female friends who sit all over the place on the sexual identity spectrum who love the shit out of that game.

There does come a point when I am unable to talk about Tomb Raider the game, I have only played the very first one and the newest one. (loved the newest one found the first one almost unplayable) So yes, I will gladly admit my own ignorance towards the character as she exists with in the archetype of her own games... cause I really dont know shit about shit. I should have been more clear, I am talking about Lara Croft the pop culture icon, who had at one point, grown far beyond the scope of her games.

But you must know OF Bayonetta. From the little you've seen of that, is that preferable? If not then what balance is there?

I'm not going to ask you for someone else's opinion.

You can't cop out of this, when you spoke so much about Tomb Raider series.

Let me guess, when you played the first one from 1996... did you read the manual? The manual that NO ONE read.

Yeah, you press jump THEN the direction to determine the direction. To do a running jump you must step at least one block back and press forward THEN jump, and you have to press jump BEFORE you get to the edge. That's why most people can't play it, they didn't read the manual. And also why even those who played the first Tomb Raider don't know her back story, which is explained in the manual.

I am talking about Lara Croft the pop culture icon

Well that's as irrelevant to this topic.

We're all talking about the games. I guess Lara Croft is an example of how games are better off remaining obscure and unknown, as what little the print media does find out about her will misrepresent it for sensationalism.

I played it when it first came out, I was like... 15. I couldn't even begin to tell you if I read the manual or not. I assumed my problems with it where because I played it on a console.

Anyways as for Bayonetta... It seems like a very complex game and I am really not comfertable talking about it because other then a few videos I really know next to nothing about it. (Doesn't she literally wear her hair as cloths or something) From what little I have seen of Bayonetta, it does seem very sexualized, but aware of it's self at the same time. Stylized and tongue and cheek and generally having fun with it's self. It's a game I am interested in playing and just never got around to. Does that make it a particularly good representative of female sexuality in games though? Well... no. Of course not. The game looks to be 100% cheese cake, but crafted in a way that seems to be very loving and women friendly at the same time. But once again, thats an outsides interpretation.

While it's another Bioware game, I think, Isabella in Dragon Age 2 is a great example of a female heroin who is both sexy, sexualized and aloud to be sexual. Actually for all it's faults I think Dragon Age 2 does a great example of nailing down female sexuality. (Does less good with the male characters IMHO) You have the sexuality gregarious Isabella, the heteronormative and monogamous Availne, and the shy and submisive Merill. Merills sexuality only shows up if you romance her, where as Avaline... well you can try to romance her, but its never going to work. All three women have very honest and different representations of there sexuality, they are all aloud to be sexual but it means something different to each of them.

Another good example would be Assassins Creed 3: Liberation, which on it's surface seems like another game staring an asexual heroine, but there's clearly some romantic tension between Avaline and Gérald, but social conditions (Avalines ethnicety) keeps them apparent.

 

[m19]

What's obviously implicit is that Sam thought those guys were cute and not necessarily anyone else thought that.

What Sam thinks is not the same as what Lara thinks. They are two separate individuals.

For starters I did not even mention Lara. And it was in response to putting Lara and Sam together.

Lack of gayness?!?!!? WHAT!!! You can't be serious.

It was in quotes for a damn reason. As in to hint it's not a real word and to say nothing suggested she was homosexual. No more than that.

 

[A Distant Star]

And here's where your homophobia really shows. What about all the gay people out there who don't want to be force fed everything being straight? This is a position born of pure privilege. Rihanna Pratchett having a character she is writing come out as gay is not -force feeding- you anything. It's Pratchetts prerogative as a creator to move a character in what ever direction she feels is appropriat and she doesn't have to deal with your entitlement to do it. Is there a problem with how women are represented in games? Yes absolulty. The problem extends to gay women as much as straight women. You're attitude is just as immature and problematic as the chauvinist who push female characters to the back of the box. Every one wants there own slice of the cake, but never wants to share it with any one else. If this is the attitude female players are going to express? Well, I think I might be done with this whole issue and just go back to playing my dudebro games. Why should I fight for female representation in games when this is how women are going to act? Disgraceful.

oh really? "here is where my homophobia shows" and me wanting some "heterosexual female respect is disgraceful" ?
You know what, AWESOME im a goddamn homophobic and your a goddamn retarded gay.

I'm gay? News to me.

Now that we are on whatever labels the other puts on our heads and even grounds:
Its easy, the huge chunk of human population is heterosexual. You dont want to see that? you dont buy it. Simple. She makes her gay? i wont buy the next game, simple.

Then don't buy it. It's your money, do with it as you please. Just don't get all indignant and self righteous about it.

My opining about it: i dont like her gay. I wont go on a crusade to make her stay hetero, i will simply express my discomfort about it in a forum. I dont see how that is labeled "entitlement" but it doesn't matter. Gays tend to whine about being labeled and yet the first thing they do is disrespect other people and label them.

No you wont go on a crusade, you'll just throw a temper tantrum on the Internet.

I'm not disrespecting you because your not gay, I'm not gay, it would be very silly of me to disrespect straight people. I'm disrespecting you because you are acting like a petulant child. There's a difference.

Do you think that will make me or any other straight person go an fight for the right of marriage of gays?
Ofc not, your the first ones to be insecure and label people who only want a minimum of respect.

But go ahead keep calling me homophobic, disrespect me i shall do the same: you retard.

Ahhhh... the maturity.

 

[Treblaine]

What's obviously implicit is that Sam thought those guys were cute and not necessarily anyone else thought that.

What Sam thinks is not the same as what Lara thinks. They are two separate individuals.

For starters I did not even mention Lara. And it was in response to putting Lara and Sam together.

Lack of gayness?!?!!? WHAT!!! You can't be serious.

It was in quotes for a damn reason. As in to hint it's not a real word and to say nothing suggested she was homosexual. No more than that.

Well that's not relevant as Lara doesn't have to be with Sam, this is talking about the general possibility of her being gay. Again, have you read the interview?

Quotation marks can't really excuse that impression you left. If it was all just a huge misunderstanding what the heck did you mean about "Gayness"?

Nothing suggest she was heterosexual either... no one needs almost 20 years of hint-dropping to prepare people for such a mundane character attribute as sexual preference. It's about her being a lesbian. Far more significant changes have been made to her character like - oh I don't know - hating tombs and adventure in general, as the latest Tomb Raider game has done. She only did all these adventures because she was forced to by circumstance and her ultimate objective was to end the adventure by escaping.

 

[A Distant Star]

snip

Ahh, so now im a petulant child.
Okay lets go that way: your a gay in the closet.
We can continue if you wish.
Since insults is the only thing you can argue with. Yet, the one the post was directed to answered quite differently from your insults, i guess you felt "entitled" to "put me in my petulant child" place eh?
hehehe

So I'm in the closet?

If you're trying to insult me you are going to need to do better then that.

I wont take being called gay as shameful because I dont think its shameful to be gay.

Gay rights are human rights.

For that mater womans rights are human rights.

I get really tired of people who ask me to fight for one, but ignore or damn the other. We will never cast of the shackles of the patriarchy until every one is free to live life on there own terms, male or female, gay straght or bi, cis or trans...

When they relaunched Battle Star Galactica and made the new Starbuck a woman, I didn't go on an angry tirade about how we where losing a male hero, or about how, damn it they should have just made a new IP and let me have my dudebro Starbuck. No, I sat down and watched the new interpretation of the character, and I enjoyed it. The fact that the character was now a woman didn't remove my ability to relate to her, or empathies with her.

A gay Lara Croft would be no less a woman, she's just a woman who goes home to a woman in her bed after she plundering tombs instead of a man. The essence of the character would not change, just like the essence of Starbuck didn't change when they changed out the equipment between her legs.

So you can go on, insist how you're not homophobic, while crying about how you wont buy anything with gay people in it because "gay". You can throw your little temper tantrum and complain about how gay people are taking over everything. But in the end, it's all just storms in tea cups.

 

[Luciella]

snip

Well first the legal protections for evictions on the basis of gender are as useless as all the laws on rape, because the most common rapist defense is "she looked like a hooker, so its her fault". And the victim will also have to endure the shame of all the society pointing at her as the "one who caused her disgrace".
I have lived something similar, not a rape, but a position in which me "being female" equates to me "being crazy" even though i was the one getting my property stolen.

There are many meanings of tolerance by the dictionary, one of them is: The capacity to -endure- hardship or pain.
And sometimes, im tired of enduring the whole lgbt ruse. Its not the meaning but the repetition. As an example, im tired of enduring people hating twilight, its a bad movie but get past it! Damn... i dont even live in USA, my city has legal gay marriages and legal gay couple child adoptions, its fine, but all i seem to see at the internet is -gay gay gay gay here there, everywhere-
Im as tired of it as hearing about twilight being a bad movie.

So we have stablished no one should buy something they dont want.
I got a good solution, even a good profitable solution: DLC's (or even free dlcs)
You take a base game and add DLC's for say gay main character story line, love interest etc.
Bouncy boobs and asses dlc
Female lead character.

Or Bioware style. Its good.
Everyone happy and pays for what they want and no one is force fed the interests of others.

 

[Luciella]

snip

Oh i got awesome colorful words in english and in my native. In my native are quite better at the objective of being insulting. But short knowledge of english slang insulting words is hmm, not something i would like to expand in my vocabulary or use.
Yet again since you were insulting me randomly, i decided to do the same.

Well idk who asked you to fight for human rights, but i certainly havent. Good thing you do that, but you are aiming your efforts at the wrong direction/person.
Go to a misogynist or homophobic forum if you really look to defend it.

Either way you have stablished im homophobic, its fine, i guess it makes you think you look good and empowers your self steam. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Treblaine]

I played it when it first came out, I was like... 15. I couldn't even begin to tell you if I read the manual or not. I assumed my problems with it where because I played it on a console.

Anyways as for Bayonetta... It seems like a very complex game and I am really not comfertable talking about it because other then a few videos I really know next to nothing about it. (Doesn't she literally wear her hair as cloths or something) From what little I have seen of Bayonetta, it does seem very sexualized, but aware of it's self at the same time. Stylized and tongue and cheek and generally having fun with it's self. It's a game I am interested in playing and just never got around to. Does that make it a particularly good representative of female sexuality in games though? Well... no. Of course not. The game looks to be 100% cheese cake, but crafted in a way that seems to be very loving and women friendly at the same time. But once again, thats an outsides interpretation.

Well sorry, I also didn't read the manual when I first played it and I tore my hair out but I didn't give up. And I was dumbstruck by how taking that on board completely changed my ability to play the game. It seems this simple thing held off so many people from playing the game.

And so many people assume Lara's parents were dead in the original series. Well I get that it's convenient that their parents can't always come to her rescue, but I think it made things far more interesting that she was permanently estranged from them than the over-used trope (I think officially a Cliche) of "Conveniently orphaned".

Really I just want your opinion oh how it might be better for Lara Croft to act, surely you realise the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma this approach puts developers in. They can't just have a female character, they have to either be sexual, or not sexual, or both, or neither. And if they get it wrong they are sexist Neanderthals.

 

[m19]

Well that's not relevant as Lara doesn't have to be with Sam, this is talking about the general possibility of her being gay. Again, have you read the interview?

But my response was to a line specifically about Sam and Lara.

I read the interview. She mused about gay Lara, never spoke to CD about that possibility, never implemented that into writing other than not explicitly touching sexuality at all (except for the still kinda obvious stuff in the diary whoever came up with it ). But people presumably at CD "have talked about Lara?s boyfriends and stuff" which is a little telling in that "to make Lara gay" would involve a change in how the game developer sees their heroine at the moment since boyfriends is what they talked about and nothing about a lesbian Lara was ever actually uttered by anyone involved.

And I'd like to stress since people are touchy on the subject and prone to blanket reactions. This isn't about gender politics. They can make Liz and Booker from Bioshock both gay and I'll still enjoy it equally. But it's not how I see Lara Croft from Tomb Raider.

Quotation marks can't really excuse that impression you left. If it was all just a huge misunderstanding what the heck did you mean about "Gayness"?

You want to keep getting upset with me be upset by the meaning I said I put in my words not the meaning you put in mine, no matter whose fault it was. I explained exactly what I meant. Lack of anything implying homosexuality.

Nothing suggest she was heterosexual either...

I stand on what I said way before. If nothing in the franchise suggested such there would never be a fiancé from the comics or the stuff in the movies. Yes you can throw all that away as non-canon but to me it clearly suggests how they always saw her since they happily went through with all that. And switching it up now would mix up the general overarching view of the character across the entire thing.

 

[A Distant Star]

I played it when it first came out, I was like... 15. I couldn't even begin to tell you if I read the manual or not. I assumed my problems with it where because I played it on a console.

Anyways as for Bayonetta... It seems like a very complex game and I am really not comfertable talking about it because other then a few videos I really know next to nothing about it. (Doesn't she literally wear her hair as cloths or something) From what little I have seen of Bayonetta, it does seem very sexualized, but aware of it's self at the same time. Stylized and tongue and cheek and generally having fun with it's self. It's a game I am interested in playing and just never got around to. Does that make it a particularly good representative of female sexuality in games though? Well... no. Of course not. The game looks to be 100% cheese cake, but crafted in a way that seems to be very loving and women friendly at the same time. But once again, thats an outsides interpretation.

Well sorry, I also didn't read the manual when I first played it and I tore my hair out but I didn't give up. And I was dumbstruck by how taking that on board completely changed my ability to play the game. It seems this simple thing held off so many people from playing the game.

And so many people assume Lara's parents were dead in the original series. Well I get that it's convenient that their parents can't always come to her rescue, but I think it made things far more interesting that she was permanently estranged from them than the over-used trope (I think officially a Cliche) of "Conveniently orphaned".

Really I just want your opinion oh how it might be better for Lara Croft to act, surely you realise the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma this approach puts developers in. They can't just have a female character, they have to either be sexual, or not sexual, or both, or neither. And if they get it wrong they are sexist Neanderthals.

Honestly, I am all for noble failures. Which I think is where Bioware falls a lot of the time. If you look at Mass Effect 2, there's some real problematic stuff with the way she is characterized. (The fact that the only way to complete her arch and have her get over her PTSD is by fucking her is very problematic) But I speak very highly of them anyways, because they seem to be a rare studio who is actually putting in an effort.

 

[Treblaine]

I wish game designers would remember that games are not movies. We put a part of ourselves into games and the characters we play. As a result some things are better left unsaid, to better allow us to see the story in our own personal way. If you as the player wish to perceive Lara as gay fine. Straight, great. Your own personal girlfriend, why he heck not. Sometimes saying less or telling less of the writers story allows the game itself to become more immersive.

This is a huge part of the appeal to Bethesdas take on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. By leaving these details to the players interpretation they increase the games incredibly sucking immersion. Whereas while Bioware does the best stories in the business, it is the moments in their games that force these types of issues that often seem to destroy the players connection to the game and its world.

Hmm, I think there is definitely something to say that if games are going to approach something like sex it should be something the player has some direct control over, a kind of level of consent.

People don't like it when their character is forced to do something they won't. Of course sometimes the character will do something they didn't explicitly initiate, but devs normally take that gamble that they know what the player wants. If they play a shooter and play the whole games shooting, it won't be so unreasonable that in cut-scene or scripted sequence they point their gun at a similar threat. The character vocalising is other things, it's tough but it's hard to get into that, what they can say, how it might draw the player in if it's an insight they might relate to... or push them away with an objectionable view.

Like Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid, he's very demanding and opinionated in the pre-game briefing then the player takes control and becomes a lot more reserved, slowly revealing his character. I think what was going on what the player was kept in line with where Snake was, his view on the world, his motivation and fears.

And Snake and Meryl. There was almost certainly some attraction there by Snake, but he never acted on it. He cared deeply about her but no matter if the player was man/woman/gay/straight it wasn't offset by Snake initiating a relationship that the player wasn't in line with.

That's a choice that has to be left down to the player.

What the playable-character does has to run in sync with what the player is prepared to move forward with, it's all part of immersion.

Now you can have playable-characters that are just another character in the cast and you happen to be directing this one. But other times, you are supposed to be totally identifying and relating to this character.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Another bullshit choice to be edgy. Its Lara, whether she is gay or not it has nothing to do with the story. Or do gay woman shoot arrows better than straight woman?

 

[Treblaine]

Well that's not relevant as Lara doesn't have to be with Sam, this is talking about the general possibility of her being gay. Again, have you read the interview?

But my response was to a line specifically about Sam and Lara.

I read the interview. She mused about gay Lara, never spoke to CD about that possibility, never implemented that into writing other than not explicitly touching sexuality at all (except for the still kinda obvious stuff in the diary whoever came up with it ). But people presumably at CD "have talked about Lara?s boyfriends and stuff" which is a little telling in that "to make Lara gay" would involve a change in how the game developer sees their heroine at the moment since boyfriends is what they talked about and nothing about a lesbian Lara was ever actually uttered by anyone involved.

And I'd like to stress since people are touchy on the subject and prone to blanket reactions. This isn't about gender politics. They can make Liz and Booker from Bioshock both gay and I'll still enjoy it equally. But it's not how I see Lara Croft from Tomb Raider.

Quotation marks can't really excuse that impression you left. If it was all just a huge misunderstanding what the heck did you mean about "Gayness"?

You want to keep getting upset with me be upset by the meaning I said I put in my words not the meaning you put in mine, no matter whose fault it was. I explained exactly what I meant. Lack of anything implying homosexuality.

Nothing suggest she was heterosexual either...

I stand on what I said way before. If nothing in the franchise suggested such there would never be a fiancé from the comics or the stuff in the movies. Yes you can throw all that away as non-canon but to me it clearly suggests how they always saw her since they happily went through with all that. And switching it up now would mix up the general overarching view of the character across the entire thing.

Exactly, and the interview makes explicit that these are her musings, not some development team plan. If Lara's boyfriend is in the works, it doesn't matter as it's not a retcon until it's actually in the game. Half Life 2 changed hugely in its development who the characters are, Captain Vance was originally going to be Alyx Vance's husband, and no father would be depicted. But then they rewrote it practically from scratch.

Also, she'd the god damn writer. Though her hands are tied by how she has to work between the violence filled gameplay sequences, a boyfriend or not was her call and she said no.

Maybe you should have said "implying homosexuality" rather than "gayness" which is such a loaded term. But whatever.

The movies and comics were worse than non-canon, they abhorred the established canon and theme. They diverged totally from the games, they did nothing more than take the trademarks and a couple-bullet points of the game yet managed to leave out the most essential elements. And who said the original developers were happy, it was quite clear the movie producers wanted to make a completely irrelevant action movie and just used the trademark. Seriously, if they'd lost the trademark at the last minute, they wouldn't even have had to go to court over similarities if they just changed a few names. Zero respect for the source material.

"The general over-arching view of Tomb Raider" is poisoned by people who have no knowledge or interest in the games.

This is like a Star Trek fan being lectured to on what the series characters were about when they've never seen an episode of Star Trek, only parodies of it!

 

[m19]

Exactly, and the interview makes explicit that these are her musings, not some development team plan.

Well good. Now just to have the development plan not include things that weren't even part of the conversation at any point during conception and not change that for progressive brownie points.

Make a new character. Don't warp the direction of existing ones.

"The general over-arching view of Tomb Raider" is poisoned by people who have no knowledge or interest in the games.

You don't have to like them. I don't like them. But they did effectively "poison" that perception of the character. People wont remember the other details, but that she likes men they will. Like it or not they somewhat established that side of her with their mark.