Tonight We Riot. Hoooo boy...

[Houseman]

I don't think you've posted a single study that I actually disagree with the findings of.

The studies disagree with the results of OTHER studies. That's why I think that there's no scientific consensus beyond "short-term" effects. That's all I'm saying.

So if I haven't understood your point, what is your point? That the studies have only shown that there are short-term effects? If this is your point, then we, and the studies, all agree.

I only stepped in when I did because you said "Playing violent video games (like other forms of violent media) is linked to a clinically significant increases in aggressive behaviour and decreases in prosocial behaviour particularly in children" without specifying short-term or long-term. Because THAT sounded like you were saying "video games cause aggression", which is misleading unless you qualify that statement. It's the kind of thing that a clickbait headline would be made out of, as opposed to something that would be said in an academic paper.

The funny thing about that statement is that it's a misquote.

I know, I looked it up yesterday before I used it in another topic. I'm still going to keep using it, though.

Ultimately, data is merely a collection of organised anecdotes

Yeah, so off-hand examples of notable (and notably biased) figures doesn't cut it. That isn't "organized" enough. It needs more rigor.

 

[Dreiko]

The main difference is that, in Outer Worlds, you fight cartoonishly evil Corporate Cops with their wacky corporate speak and so on. It's a caricature.

In Tonight We Riot, they're just Cops. Regular ol' SWAT team in riot gear. Government and Corporation working together instead of one subsuming the other. It's not saying "this hyper capitalist corporation is bad", it's sayin "the whole damn capitalist system is fucked"
Heck, in the trailer all the good guys are either diverse groups of men and women or individual PoC and all the assholes are either cops or mostly white dudes and a single white lady. That alone would make the weirder nerds mad

I don't know how you WOULDN'T say that the whole system is bad in the other worlds. What it depicts isn't one corporation. I don't know why you'd say that. It depicts a board of multiple corporations that consolidated power and became a world government, which is what truly end stage capitalism is like (not like what this game shows).

You are being very surface level. Sure, you COULD just say that the silly faux window advertisement is poking fun at bad ads, but if you look deeper, it shows that they live in a society that doesn't allow you to have windows. The outer worlds does a lot of these things. Ones which seem satyrical and silly on the surface but which reveal a dire and rotten core that is not at all funny.


Sure, treating the unemployed as the same as a wild monster may seem funny, but then it hits closer to home due to the stigma society places on actual unemployed people (calling them parasites is not too far removes from calling them monsters lol) than just treating cops like they're bad. There's a lot of very smartly inserted criticisms of the system which cut a lot deeper and hit a lot closer home. It's just smart and indirect about it so I guess the dumb reactionaries never got deep enough into it to comprehend all those things.

 

[Hawki]

And see, I'm fine with communists or socialist politcs in my games, what I don't like is identity or gender politics.

I have gripes with identity politics as well, but what's an actual example of these things being in-game? And while I'm not accusing you of this, I need something better than something along the lines of "Ellie is gay in Last of Us, ND is playing identity politics!"

 

[Terminal Blue]

That's why I think that there's no scientific consensus beyond "short-term" effects.

And neither does there have to be.

In my very first post, I clearly distinguished between both the effects of violent media on adults and children, and between aggression effects (which may be short term) and actual risk of criminal behaviour.

So if I haven't understood your point, what is your point?

My only point was that this weird hate boner for Jack Thompson is weird, given that much of what he said was not particularly controversial.

I mean, if you want to hate on him for manipulating children into testifying against their own interests, or for threatening opponents in court cases, I'm down, those are awful things. Saying that children shouldn't be playing age restricted games isn't particularly awful, and the fact that people lump any criticsm of video games as a medium or a culture together and treat all such criticism as some kind of great moral or societal evil is.. weird. It's weird.

I only stepped in when I did because you said "Playing violent video games (like other forms of violent media) is linked to a clinically significant increases in aggressive behaviour and decreases in prosocial behaviour particularly in children" without specifying short-term or long-term.

Is short-term or long-term important?

Because THAT sounded like you were saying "video games cause aggression", which is misleading unless you qualify that statement. It's the kind of thing that a clickbait headline would be made out of, as opposed to something that would be said in an academic paper.

I mean, it's true.. or at least, it meets the criteria of evidence where we would normally accept something as true.

We may not know if the effects are short term or long term, and I don't think we will ever truly know that because "aggression" as a phenomenon is extremely complicated and covers a lot of different things. Personally, I'm not that concerned about the effect video games might have on aggression, what interests and concerns me far more is the effect on things like empathy and attitudes towards violence rather than aggression and criminal violence. I think it'd be far more interesting to ask whether video games normalise the idea that violence is a justifiable response or solution to problems, or whether they influence attitudes towards (for example) the use of military force. But these things may not be separable from aggression.

Yeah, so off-hand examples of notable (and notably biased) figures doesn't cut it. That isn't "organized" enough. It needs more rigor.

For what?

 

[fOx]

Huge fan. I'm greatly enjoying it. Though I wish it gave you more options, in terms of how it lets you choose to overthrow capitalism. Maybe add a feature where you distribute communist literature to win over the masses. And guillotines.

 

[Houseman]

Is short-term or long-term important?

I think so, yes. More importantly, the researchers seem to think so, which is why they distinguish between long-term and short-term.

I mean, it's true..

Clickbait headlines are true, too. They are also designed to plant false ideas in your head. I understand if this is not your intention.

For what?

For making a convincing argument.

 

[Dreiko]

I have gripes with identity politics as well, but what's an actual example of these things being in-game? And while I'm not accusing you of this, I need something better than something along the lines of "Ellie is gay in Last of Us, ND is playing identity politics!"

There was this recent kerfuffle about the house of fata morgana translating "tsundere" as "fragile male ego" when we all know in no universe would they do that if the person called a tsundere was a female. Then you have an older example in dragon age inquisition where they had the mage guy's quest not be anything epic or cool or fitting but just what amounts to gay counseling (and he was a very cool character, so they legit wasted his potential with that quest line). Finally, you have the censored scene in p5R where the gay folks hit on Ryuuji which was changed in the translation.


There's a bunch more but if I listed everything I'd be here all day.

 

[Silvanus]

Finally, you have the censored scene in p5R where the gay folks hit on Ryuuji which was changed in the translation.

This is the scene where in the original version, they were literally the only gay characters in the game, and they were portrayed as child molesters, right?

You find the removal of that to be "identity politics", but you don't find the original scene itself to be "identity politics"?

 

[Dalisclock]

I mean it looks fun enough even though it seems to backing a rather dumb political ideology. What is the issue other then cry babies?

Most of the user reviews I've seen say it's fun, with a fair number applauding the pro-left pov. The negative ones seem to be mostly centered around not liking the politics of it.

I reminds me of another game that came out around a year or so ago but that game took place in ancient greece and you were leading a mob to kill the gods themselves. I can't remember the name though.

 

[Worgen]

Most of the reviews I've seen say it's fun. The negative ones seem to be mostly centered around not liking the politics of it.

Ahh, that's pretty much what I assumed. While its not uncommon for you to be fighting against the same forces you are as in this game, it is pretty rare that its politics as as in your face about it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Most of the user reviews I've seen say it's fun, with a fair number applauding the pro-left pov. The negative ones seem to be mostly centered around not liking the politics of it.

The fact that the main bad guy is a Trump stand in, does not help either (for those imbecicles anyway).While I usually tire of Trump stand-ins or Trump-alikes, this one looks more it's put to better use.

EDIT: I love the description page on the eShop site.

Tonight We Riot for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy Tonight We Riot and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

www.nintendo.com

 

[Dreiko]

This is the scene where in the original version, they were literally the only gay characters in the game, and they were portrayed as child molesters, right?

You find the removal of that to be "identity politics", but you don't find the original scene itself to be "identity politics"?

Yes, because it's just an old running gag that has been in one way or another in all the games. Sometimes its' the ugly teacher, sometimes it's the fat girl who won't share her curry when everyone else is starving.

Point is, there's always this scene at the beach where the guys are all bro-like and go on to pick up women only to fail miserably and then get hit on by someone they find completely unattractive, which illustrates in a smart way how they may have been making the people they were hitting on feel. It's not a joke at the expense of the gay folks, it's a joke at the expense of the player characters for thinking they're all that.

It wasn't changed in the other cases when the teacher was being a "pedophile", it wasn't even changed in original p5 (cause we're in a game that lets you date medical doctors in their late 20s as a second grade highschooler between the ages of 16 and 17), it was only changed here, which is identity politics, yes.


To not get that this is supposed to be the youthful fantasy of dating a hot older woman being turned on its head for laughs and try to imply that this in fact is some kind of homoerotic pedophilia moment is just utterly ignorant and is trying to use such an interpretation to justify censorious acts which in truth are occuring simply because some people don't like that being hit on by gay people when you're straight is depicted as being as off-putting as being hit on by an ugly teacher in her 40s or a really fat selfish biatch.

If Ryuuji was into them and they became confidants and he had them with him all bunched together in the Xmas Eve event, the game would have been lionized as a paragon of tolerance and inclusivity. Nobody would bring up the "pedophile" angle and anyone who did would be called homophobic.

 

[fOx]

There was this recent kerfuffle about the house of fata morgana translating "tsundere" as "fragile male ego" when we all know in no universe would they do that if the person called a tsundere was a female. Then you have an older example in dragon age inquisition where they had the mage guy's quest not be anything epic or cool or fitting but just what amounts to gay counseling (and he was a very cool character, so they legit wasted his potential with that quest line). Finally, you have the censored scene in p5R where the gay folks hit on Ryuuji which was changed in the translation.


There's a bunch more but if I listed everything I'd be here all day.

You see, I understand the complaint that most writers who buy into identity politics aren't very good. What I don't get is the argument that lgbt people, or minorities, merely existing in a property is somehow political or pandering. The problem with the new ghost busters wasn't the women. It was the actual quality of the movie. And I don't think replacing those women with the original cast would have fixed anything.

I've heard people accuse the original Last of Us game of political pandering as well. And i don't get it. Frank never gave a speech about how hard it is to be gay. Ellie didn't deliver a manifesto in her DLC. So how was this political at all? Is the mere existance of gay people political statement?

 

[Dreiko]

You see, I understand the complaint that most writers who buy into identity politics aren't very good. What I don't get is the argument that lgbt people, or minorities, merely existing in a property is somehow political or pandering. The problem with the new ghost busters wasn't the women. It was the actual quality of the movie. And I don't think replacing those women with the original cast would have fixed anything.

I've heard people accuse the original Last of Us game of political pandering as well. And i don't get it. Frank never gave a speech about how hard it is to be gay. Ellie didn't deliver a manifesto in her DLC. So how was this political at all? Is the mere existance of gay people political statement?

See, it's not merely existing, it's clashing with the world and feeling contrived and put in just to tick a box and not to make the game better. That's the issue.


Take Sylvanus from Dragon Quest XI, he's the gayest gay, yet nobody complained. And this is a game where you participate in a fantasy gay pride parade at one point. It's just wholesome and fun. You can't even not participate in the parade. Yet nobody complained that it was shoving their propaganda down their throats. Because it was done well.

Meanwhile the things I list in Dragon Age are there just because someone thinks it's cool to have gay counseling be the char's main story quest. Sylvanus wasn't like that, you had an issue with his dad which gets resolved but his main story isn't about that, it isn't about him being gay. His theater and circus performance and his love for art is what's cool and interesting about him. They didn't make his being gay into a thing you're supposed to like him for, they just made it a part of him. Too many other chars feel like they're saying "wow, am I not cool for being this gay!?".

 

[SupahEwok]

You see, I understand the complaint that most writers who buy into identity politics aren't very good. What I don't get is the argument that lgbt people, or minorities, merely existing in a property is somehow political or pandering. The problem with the new ghost busters wasn't the women. It was the actual quality of the movie. And I don't think replacing those women with the original cast would have fixed anything.

Well, it might have given it better acting.

I say this knowing that at least one member of the original cast is dead and another is modern day Bill Murry, yes, thank you for asking.

 

[Smithnikov]

Why is this thread not locked yet?

 

[fOx]

Why is this thread not locked yet?

I mean, you asked for a ban. Im not sure why you came back to check on it. Especially since I'll just make another thread. Im actually excited to talk about a communist game.

 

[Smithnikov]

I mean, you asked for a ban. Im not sure why you csme back to check on it.

I haven't got my ban yet either. I'm about to hit them up about that. This thread needs to die. This game is trash and is an insult to the Kulaks and all other victims of socialism and communism. I am garbage for even temporarily giving them money and I need to be punished.

 

[Neuromancer]

Well that's an overreaction.

 

[Smithnikov]

Well that's an overreaction.

No. It's only a start. I have blood on my hands for this shit.