Tonight We Riot. Hoooo boy...

fOx

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Speaking of which, did you play Disco Elysium? I kinda enjoyed that you could play as a communist and go around preaching the revolution to everyone if you chose. Given the main characters.....condition, it actually works pretty well.
Not yet, but it's at the top of the list. From what I've heard, I'm kind of awed at the amount of effort that seems to have been poured into it. And there seems to be a massive amount of replayability.
 

Dalisclock

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Not yet, but it's at the top of the list. From what I've heard, I'm kind of awed at the amount of effort that seems to have been poured into it. And there seems to be a massive amount of replayability.
From what I've seen, it does and the amount detail is insane. Especially how most of the sidequests are mudane('Find your badge, "Find out what's on the other side of this door", etc) but they end up being strangely compelling, so much that the main goal of solving the murder feels almost like a side quest instead. Thats not to say the main quest is disappointing but you'll spend most of the game pursuing almost trival diversions that have nothing with the crime and it's awesome. It's like a faffing about simulator in the best possible way.

On that note, do the Karaoke side quest. If you fail, don't reload. While the succeed conclusion is soulful, fail conclusion is downright hilarious in how awful it is. I save scummed to get a suceed on that and when I found out about the fail version I regretted it.

I also like how leveling any of the skills enough makes it increasingly dominant. A good level in encyclopedia gives you useful knowledge of the world around you, but a high level starts bombarding you with triva to the point of annoyance. Likewise a good level in Hand/eye coodination helps with certain dexertiy taskes, but a high level will keep insisting you try to shoot people.....like anyone who remotely annoys you(which can lead to some non-standard game overs if you indulge it).

Actually there was one mission in GTA San Andraus that had the objective of "KILL ALL THE HAITIANS!!" and that ended up being changed to "gangsters" in later releases. In early GTA games there were also the massacre side missions where the objective was to just kill as many people as you could.
Slight correction: Vice City, not San Andreas.
 
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Aegix Drakan

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While the gameplay doesn't look like my cup of jam, I like that it exists just so I can laugh at the reaction to it.

As soon as I saw the trailer I thought "oh boy oh boy, some 'lol u mad snowflakes' people are going to be screaming mad about this one." XD And that seems to be correct!

Not yet, but it's at the top of the list. From what I've heard, I'm kind of awed at the amount of effort that seems to have been poured into it. And there seems to be a massive amount of replayability.
I started playing it, but something about it kind of....I dunno, irks me. I intend to go back to it because I hear so many good things, but something about it just kind of feels...wrong to play. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Take Sylvanus from Dragon Quest XI, he's the gayest gay, yet nobody complained. And this is a game where you participate in a fantasy gay pride parade at one point. It's just wholesome and fun. You can't even not participate in the parade. Yet nobody complained that it was shoving their propaganda down their throats. Because it was done well.
I've seen people complaining about it. Not a ton, and it has slowed down a whole lot, but I've seen several people whining that they couldn't get a refund for the game because of the parade part.

The worst one was a guy who came onto the Trials of Mana Steam forums asking "yo, before I buy, I need to know, does this game hav a an agenda? I don't wanna waste any more money on those". When pressed he ranted that the most recent dragon quest game had a Family-Unfriendly agenda that "forced him to participate in a degenerate's pride parade" etc etc and was mad that "an obviously child friendly game was promoting a degenerate lifestyle" and that he was furious that he could not refund the game because it was so late in the story.

Then the thread got deleted, because of course.
 

BrawlMan

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he worst one was a guy who came onto the Trials of Mana Steam forums asking "yo, before I buy, I need to know, does this game hav a an agenda? I don't wanna waste any more money on those". When pressed he ranted that the most recent dragon quest game had a Family-Unfriendly agenda that "forced him to participate in a degenerate's pride parade" etc etc and was mad that "an obviously child friendly game was promoting a degenerate lifestyle" and that he was furious that he could not refund the game because it was so late in the story.
Sounds like a b!tch-pussy.

Then the thread got deleted, because of course.
Good. If you're gonna complain about something, it better be legit or gameplay related. Not a Dragon Quest fan, but I can tell when people are being petty. Kinda reminds me of that time when some dumb mother complained about the Senran Kagura (Estival Verus had already been out for a while) game being sold at GameStops (so they got rid of them temporarily for like a month or 2.), yet this ***** had no problem buying her kids the latest COD or playing GTAV online. Which did not even matter, because you could find copies of Senran Kagura on Amazon, GameStop's online stores, and at actual Best Buy stores. Meaning, the idiot changed nothing.
 

Dalisclock

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I started playing it, but something about it kind of....I dunno, irks me. I intend to go back to it because I hear so many good things, but something about it just kind of feels...wrong to play. I can't quite put my finger on it.
I'd be curious to hear what bothered you if you end up figuring it out. There's a subset of people who don't like it because either a.) they don't like it's politics or it's creators or b.) I remember a few people(or maybe it was one really vocal guy) responding to the ZP review who felt it was "pretentiousness pseudo-intellectualism", without actually explaining what that means. Those seem to be the most vocal ones.

It does have some legitimate rough edges though, but not as many as I'd expect from such a small studio doing it's first game. The sheer amout of reading required can be a deal breaker for some.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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As soon as I saw the trailer I thought "oh boy oh boy, some 'lol u mad snowflakes' people are going to be screaming mad about this one." XD And that seems to be correct!
The same people who heard complaints of racism when you storm some anonymous Middle Eastern country and start mowing down brown people down with the assumption that they're terrorists because they dare to oppose you, and said "dude it's just a video game, chill out"? Yeah, I figured they'd be the snowflakes when it was something they didn't like to see.
 

Hawki

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Good. If you're gonna complain about something, it better be legit or gameplay related.
Kind of a serious question - how does one define a "legit" criticism?

I mean, there's no shortage of material I can draw from, so I'll go into the most basic one - Mario. I'm not fond of Mario. I've never been that enamored, in part to fighting for Sega in the console wars, but as an adult, I've pretty much lost all interest. Part of that is due to Mario having no real personality, and, gah, Peach. Peach, who after 30-plus years, is still nothing more than a damsel in distress, who exists solely to be kidnapped and rescued. Yes, I'm sure you can point to exceptions, but generally, that's been the status quo. Mario Bros. had you rescue Peach from Bowser, Odyssey had you rescuing Peach from Bowser, and in all that time, she's done nothing to try and improve her condition.

Now, you can point out that the Mario games have never been about character or story, and "save the princess" works as a basic plot point, and yes, both of those statements are true. But even by the standards of platformers, the Mario characters feel bland. For Sonic, Amy Rose started off as a damsel in distress, but became something more competent, even if some of her character development seems to have been reversed. Crash Bandicoot started off with Crash rescuing Tawna, but after that, we got Coco, and at least as far as I'm concerned, Coco is a much, MUCH better character by virtue of actually being a character. The original Spyro platformers gave us Ember, the Legend of Spyro gave us Cynder, and the latter has a character that goes beyond "I'm hot for you, little purple dragon." Even in Nintendo's own catalogue, Zelda went from a damsel in distress to a character in her own right, beginning that transition in Ocarina of Time. But Peach remains Peach.

Now, if I was assigned to review a Mario game, I wouldn't harp on this for too long, but the question is, is this legitimate criticism? It's nothing to do with the gameplay after all. But it is stuff that's hampered my interest in the games, and we've probably all got examples of games where the criticism comes from story/character elements, or other considerations. Like, the RE3 remake is a good game, but a poor remake, for instance - how much does that paradigm lend itself to "legitimate" crticism?
 

Dalisclock

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I ended up buying it($15 bucks is a pretty good price) and it's fun enough. It does encourage you to play levels multiple times because finishing the level with a certain # of living comrades/minions/members of your angry mob unlocks a new weapon to use on later levels, but each level is a couple minutes long so that's not a huge ask. I've also noticed that most of the time there's no benefit from killing, destroying more than you need to avoid getting killed(you can bypass certain vehicles and they won't pose a threat to you once past them), but destroying parts of the level gets you more ammo(normally concrete blocks to hurl at the cops). I also noticed that if your PC dies but you have other living....fuck it, I'm just gonna call them Comrades, you end up taking control of one of them instead and you don't fail until the last member of your group dies, so obviously the bigger your group is, the the easier the levels are.

The whole thing actually kind of feels like Super Mario with a "Eat the Rich" coating, which creates a strange feeling to it. The fact that the world map is set up like Super Mario Bros 3(complete with Level 1-1, etc) only reinforces this.

Oh my god, I figured it out. This basically the game version of The Peoples Mario.
So yeah, once you get past the premise of "People are gonna rise up and break capitalism", it feels like a throwback to old nintendo games with a group mechanic built in. The story is pretty much confined to Newspaper headlines, which are fairly tongue in cheek, beyond the opening cutscene. It feels like once you get past the "Let's trigger the right" wrapper, this really isn't that different than a brawler arcade game like Streets of Rage or Double Dragon.
 
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Hawki

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Oh my god, I figured it out. This basically the game version of The Peoples Mario.
That...arguably fit better than it really should have. 0_0

On the other hand, couldn't you argue that Mario is pro-feudalist/monarchist? I mean, we've got a working class guy busting his arse to save a monarch, and being rewarded with nothing but cake (insert "let them eat cake" comment if you want). You'd think that after proving so many times that she's an incompetent ruler, the people of the Mushroom Kingdom would be fed up with Peach by now.
 

SupahEwok

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Kind of a serious question - how does one define a "legit" criticism?
One from me. I'm a Legit Objective Critic.

I deem this game a "Laughable Tryhard That Doesn't Actually Do Anything to Advance Marx's Cause/The People Freaking Out About It Are Predictable and Hilarious".

I'mma need ya to cut a check if you want anything more, Legit Objective Criticism doesn't just grow on trees.
 

fOx

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One from me. I'm a Legit Objective Critic.

I deem this game a "Laughable Tryhard That Doesn't Actually Do Anything to Advance Marx's Cause/The People Freaking Out About It Are Predictable and Hilarious".

I'mma need ya to cut a check if you want anything more, Legit Objective Criticism doesn't just grow on trees.
How about "They Are Co-Opting The Visual Iconography Of Marxism As A Marketing Gimmick To Sell A Product Within A Capitalist System, To Financially Benefit The Creators?"
 

Phoenixmgs

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Oh yeah, my bad. I even started putting Vice City then changed it, its been too long.
I'm surprised that, I guess, people forgot about the Rampage missions, which were in GTA3 and Vice City. I stopped playing the series after San Andreas when the series started boring me.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I'm surprised that, I guess, people forgot about the Rampage missions, which were in GTA3 and Vice City. I stopped playing the series after San Andreas when the series started boring me.
I've played most of them and GTA 4 actually has one of my most impactful scenes in gaming that actually happened kinda accidentally. Although I never did get around to beating GTA 5, I got like half way through it then started messing around in the multi and had a hard time going back to do the single player since it felt like I was wasting time since I wasn't getting that much needed cash in multi.
 

BrawlMan

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Kind of a serious question - how does one define a "legit" criticism?
The ones that don't act like a total *****, and back up there stuff with other than "forced agenda", "it sucked", or "I hate it because x person worked on the game". Somebody you can hold at least a decent conversation with.
 

Silvanus

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Sure, but the criticism when one does this is about them being cheesy or old fashioned or cliche. Not being homophobic or pro pedophilia or whatever other insane thing was leveled at them.
The issue isn't that it's "cheesy" or "cliche", though. There's a reason they've chosen that implication, and applied it specifically to gay people. That association is the issue, and it's nothing to do with it being "cheesy". The issue is that it's a really damaging stereotype, which has been used as a specific slur, and has led to violence and stigma.
 
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BrawlMan

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The issue isn't that it's "cheesy" or "cliche", though. There's a reason they've chosen that implication, and applied it specifically to gay people. That association is the issue, and it's nothing to do with it being "cheesy". The issue is that it's a really damaging stereotype, which has been used as a specific slur, and has led to violence and stigma.
Leave it to @Dreikoto make pathetic excuses for Japanese games. I mean like Japanese gaming, but when something is doing poorly and in bad taste, or is a shity stereotype, I am not afraid to call that shit out. I don't do trying to the fling criticism, or make it sound like it's not as bad as it seems, or outright ignore it. Cultural differences aside, I don't give a rat's ass..
 

FennecZephyr

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How about "They Are Co-Opting The Visual Iconography Of Marxism As A Marketing Gimmick To Sell A Product Within A Capitalist System, To Financially Benefit The Creators?"
Socialism isn't necessarily about the total abolishment of markets or currency. The hypocrisy you're implying doesn't exist as long as the devs are worker controlled co-op, which they do in fact appear to be.

Like, you do know how big capitalism is, right? There's no way for socialists to avoid it without just founding their own country in the woods for the cops to shut down.
You're just being the annoying "Yet you participate in society" guy completely unironically.
 

Fat Hippo

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How about "They Are Co-Opting The Visual Iconography Of Marxism As A Marketing Gimmick To Sell A Product Within A Capitalist System, To Financially Benefit The Creators?"
Sounds to me like the system is working.