Too Much Success

[realslimshadowen]

There's self-confidence and there's self-esteem.

Don't confuse the two.

 

[NaramSuen]

I think that people are looking back at the "Nintendo Hard" era with a little too much nostalgia. Part of the challenge of some of these classics was due to cheap design and shoddy controls.

However, this does not address one of the central arguments of this well-written article, that the reward-to-challenge ratio is skewed towards reward. Just recently, I finished Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia and I don't believe that anyone will argue that that game is too easy and I have also spent many hours dying/re-spawning in a desperate attempt to finish mainstream titles on insanity difficulty. I don't think that games have gotten easier, but they have gotten more accessible; players can choose their level of difficulty and many games allow co-op.

Part of the issue that the author seems to have is that the kids in his father's class choose not to embark on the more difficult path. That is a problem with the culture, not video games. Perhaps students see no reward for taking the harder road, I don't know. What I do know is that the solution is not a return to 8-bit era game design.

 

[RelexCryo]

Maybe the kids in your dad's class don't pay attention because most people find math a boring subject? Just a thought.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

To this day, it's the hard parts that stick with me. The level in mario brothers (the first one) had to be in the 8-range, where you had to stand on a TINY bit of ledge next to a pipe, in order to get a running start across a small gap, so that you'd have the momentum to clear a long jump. Or the first time I nailed the infinite 1-up thing with the turtle at the bottom of the stairs.

Or how about BAttle Toads. Hell yeah. The speeder bikes, and the level later where you climb and platform along huge snake things. More than once I had to take a leap of faith, hoping that the mobile platform had mobiled itself over to the left there, and that I would land on it.

Finally getting the Golden Werewolf powerup on Altered Beast (Sega Master system)


And those games were ... 15-20 years ago.

I beat Kirby's Epic yarn playing coop with my family (all kinda taking turns) in 2 days last Christmas, and I can't think of a single really memorable moment. A few vague memories, especially regarding the artistic style, which I thought was interesting... but the gameplay itself hasn't survived my memory for a year.


Which is fine, imo. For what it is, Kirby's Epic Yarn was perfect. A very easy game that the whole family can play and enjoy. No one gets frustrated or mad at the younger siblings or parents who aren't very good at games. Everyone has fun.

Definitely room for both types of games

 

[Asti]

Personally, I have close to zero tolerance for virtual deaths. If a section of a game is hard but doesn't kill me, I can invest a lot of time into mastering it, but once the game throws me out and forces me to load a previous savegame, I'm likely to just switch it off. I don't know exactly why that is, maybe because a virtual death is the biggest punishment a game can hand out and in my opinion, it should only happen in exceptions and not as a valid version of trial and error learning.

I don't say that deaths shouldn't happen, but imho, it should at least be possible to beat a game without dying for a skilled gamer. Especially in RPGs where the notion of death totally destroys immersion.

 

[Susan Arendt]

This is why I like having difficultly settings. For those who want a easy time or to just enjoy the story or whatever there's easy. And for those who want hell there's hard and whatever else comes after that.

I agree completely. More skilled players shouldn't have to sacrifice a challenge just so that more people can play a game - but lesser-skilled players (or those who simply don't feel like wrestling with the learning curve) should be able to enjoy themselves, too.

Well i think we have seen a problem with difficulty settings pretty much since they were invented but lately especially mass market games have become less challenging.

The typical problem with difficulty settings in many modern home console games is that, since 'normal' difficulty seems to have been ramped down a bit the "Hard" or "Really hard" essentially just makes things take more hits and you take less. This typically does not make a game 'harder' as it does "A bit cheaper and more frustrating".

Difficulty balancing should be done in a more thoughtful way; like we have seen in games like "New Vegas" or the "STALKER" games. In new vegas whole new mechanics come into play; You need to drink to survive, medicaine has less of an effect, the games punishment ramps up a whole notch rather than just going "This dude takes 5 head-shots now". "STALKER" changes a lot of the under the hood mechanics; as well as taking less damage you are also more susceptable to bleeding, you find less ammo and health, resources are more scant all round and (i think) atrifacts become more rare.

Most games are originally balanced for a certain difficulty level and the idea that you can make a game work better just by making you takes less hits or have to give out more is really very flawed.

Absolutely true. In an ideal situation, an entire team would be dedicated to creating the difficulty differences, but that's not really very practical. And the current method of making the protagonist bullet proof or tissue paper, depending on the difficulty, is an inelegant solution at best.

 

[Reliq]

I thought this might be relevant

Spoiler: video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1A-Ymf1VYY

Heh, funny. Kinda weird to me though because some people actually do rage that much at achievements. I personally don't mind 'em because I've never met someone who was a douche about them or acted superior because of it. My friends and I don't mention scores, we just ask if anyone did such-and-such achievement and maybe ask how; it's not a big deal. Indeed, by using them everywhere, they devalued them to a point where no one should care, aside from the extra-hard ones. So no real reason to rage, unless someone secretly really cares and tries too hard to hide it by "hating" them

Dont mind 'em, but don't hunt for them either. I just remebered this episode when i read the article

 

[Jegsimmons]

Reminds me of the parenting style argument:
Make him a winner and pander to them too much and they become a spoiled shit.
Give them some childhood drama and have them accept losing as a way of dealing with life and they build character.

i welcome difficult games. What feeling of success can you achieve when you dont work for it.
RPGs like fallout and realistic games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. do this very well.
another example would be minecraft, make your own entertainment by giving yourself a project and if you die you lose you stuff and work for it again.

 

[William the Muddy]

I just wanted to point out that Wario Land 2 did this WAY before the Kirby series did with Epic Yarn. And it was way more fun, too.
/hipster