top 10 arguments I disagree with

[gbemery]

Spoiler

10. PC gaming is dying....Its not dying anymore than consoles are dying, I predict interesting times in the nest couple of generations...it may not be as straight forward as "get next console" or "upgrade rig"

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game, lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)

8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing- yeah I know I shouldnt go here, but I just did, I will go out on a limb and say ME wasnt much of a good in-depth RPG, aside form the main story arc exploring and doing sidequests really wasnt all that much fun/rewarding

or even getting items and such...all really felt like a palete swap, oh and the Mako...fuck the mako, sure arguably it could have been a bad thing for DA2..but not ME

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself

6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!"

what?

no seriously what?

ok....FILMS are a recognised art form, yet we still have youre summer block busters, your indie films and your oscar bait peices, get my drift here? gaming realy isnt any different

I dont mean to come across as agressive but this statment strikes me as incredibly stupid (and lets not debate what IS art because that goes nowhere fast)

5. everything is dying

no it isnt

4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...

3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

10. Agreed, it isn't dying just becoming more specialized in my opinion while consoles are becoming more broad range. I played a lot of horrible games on the PC before consoles ever started taking off.

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.

7. I completely agree with this statement and would add that it really depends to on what you want. "People say I play games to escape reality so I want things that are not realistic." Sure those games are fun and I play them to but I too play game to escape from reality. But that doesn't mean I want to go to the mushroom kingdom. I want to put myself in the realistic shoes of someone else and RP as that character. You know to maybe see what life would somewhat be like as a soldier or a fighter pilot etc.

6.Agree, though I think this argument comes from the fear that people wearing dark sunglasses and berets saying "voila" every time they take a shit will push out something that is horrible and stand behind it because its "art" /voila

5. see statement about PCs are dying

4. sequels are never bad if you are into the story of the series. even if they just are out for a cash cow. If they really sucked no one would buy them case and point.

3. agreed I don't think this one needs to be talked about much other than people will type to the death to defend how they spent money just to make them feel like they didnt' get a bad deal or make the wrong choice. Like they think they are infallible

2. Agreeish, like chrono cross and other similar RPGs are great with blank/silent characters, and I can see why FPSs are better with them too but I still, depending on the game, like to add my own backstory and voice sometimes...

1. what? Im confused on this one.

 

[Minigrinch]

10. PC gaming is dying.

Its dying. Really the only stuff you see do well on PC's these days are things you CAN'T do on a console. So your RTS because a controller simply can't handle that well. Sure you could make (and I have made) the argument that Pikmin is essentially an RTS that's far from the point. Warcraft and Starcract and the like SUCK on consoles. Same so far with MMO's though I honestly don't know why. You'd think a Pokemon MMO would have came out as a Wii Launch title and done just fine.

No, just no, PC gaming has been going from strength to strength over the last few years, particularly thanks to cheaper parts and digital distribution, alongside higher public internet speeds.

The only people who say that are console elitists, people who believe the PIRACY IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY propaganda and those who don't even look at indie games.

 

[Johann610]

Sequels are bad for one of three reasons:
--The originality is gone. The I.P. has established characters, enemies, plot, setting and title; just add a new bad guy, slap on a number (or re-something) and away you go.
--The stuff they didn't finish is tied up here. This makes the ORIGINAL game weaker since they have to have cliff-hanger endings or--worse--allow numerous plot lines to fester that they could just resolve or--gasp!--remove entirely.
--The story inserts retroactive continuity--retcons--that make the original story moot or something.
--Top it all off with the sense that the player has been there, done that, and has spent $60 for nothing but a re-run of the old story.

I used to love sequels--Jazz Jackrabbit 2 and Doom 2 are examples of expansion, new stories, and better weapons without ever feeling like bad re-treads of the original. Nowadays, too many "hippo in a pool of liquid iced children" sequels are made, and I have to wait for critics to approve before I buy in.

 

[demotion1]

I agree with most if not all the points. Very good list.

 

[Vault101]

Spoiler

10. PC gaming is dying....Its not dying anymore than consoles are dying, I predict interesting times in the nest couple of generations...it may not be as straight forward as "get next console" or "upgrade rig"

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game, lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)

8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing- yeah I know I shouldnt go here, but I just did, I will go out on a limb and say ME wasnt much of a good in-depth RPG, aside form the main story arc exploring and doing sidequests really wasnt all that much fun/rewarding

or even getting items and such...all really felt like a palete swap, oh and the Mako...fuck the mako, sure arguably it could have been a bad thing for DA2..but not ME

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself

6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!"

what?

no seriously what?

ok....FILMS are a recognised art form, yet we still have youre summer block busters, your indie films and your oscar bait peices, get my drift here? gaming realy isnt any different

I dont mean to come across as agressive but this statment strikes me as incredibly stupid (and lets not debate what IS art because that goes nowhere fast)

5. everything is dying

no it isnt

4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...

3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.



1. what? Im confused on this one.

because of this thing called opnion/induviduality I dont think anything i say could make you like fallout 3 if it didnt spark your interest enough, it happens (like with me and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.)

I put this here because I found people would focus ONLY on the treatment of the Brotherhood and simplifying things (in most cases) to a black and white karma systm

and yes (without broken steel) the main story falls apart at the end

but heres what I love about the game

1. atmosphere, some people says theres none, some people says theres alot, Im in the "omg atmohphere is awsome!" group

I mean the look and feel is fallout through and through, with the classic music and everything

the world really feels like its been brought to life more or less

2. the GOOD parts of the story, growing up in the vault the thing with your dad I felt was very well done and added extra emotional punch

and trainquility lane...that was cool (and the DLC depending on your personal preference I LOVED point lookout, yeah I have a thing for trippy seaquences)

3. exploration, unliek NV FO3 was really the kind of game you wander in a direction and see what you can find and theres alot..from the subtle to the not so subtle (Like a little rube-golderberg trap set up in a store..its like "oh! dominoes! *whack*"

role playing I loved fallotu 3 because I had a real emotional connection to everything my charachter was a charter, she had her own past and her own story

and for those who like to blow things up..yeah you can do that too

is the game perfect? hell no but its a favorite of mine

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

OP needs 20cc's of grammar! Stat!

But seriously, couldn't stand to read that.

 

[GaryH]

All of the anti-religion arguments here, most are people blaming religion for the things that stupid people do in the name of religion and act like that's ALL religion has ever done, which is incredibly narrow minded.

And I'm not even religious.

Well if someone did something in the name of an organization, and that action is stupid, wouldn't you think that organization is stupid? All groups that have no entry requirements hold the risk of being represented by the wrong message. I wouldn't disagree that religion has brought on some good, but it surely isn't necessary for civilization.

Well in my opinion:

1)Ideologies should be judged on its own merits, not on those of its followers. An argument is equally valid or invalid, no matter who speaks it.

2)It was definitely important for the creation of civilisation, a society requires people with like-minded moral ideals for it to be formed and Religion is a great way for a common set of moral guidelines to spread.

Your second point is a very good one, but I consider religion to be like the training wheels of civilisation. It's about time we took them off, we're starting to look ridiculous.

EDIT: I should point out, just because I don't really want to get flamed today, that you are all entitled to believe what you need to believe to make you happy. I'm not going to try and take that from you and if you think that's what I'm saying then you miss my point entirely. Have a good day!

 

[OrokuSaki]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think he just missed the L.

 

[Lukeje]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think the word was supposed to be `triple'. `Trice' isn't actually a word.

 

[GaryH]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think he meant triple.

EDIT: You wait all day for a correction and THREE turn up at once!

 

[Sir Boss]

Ha! fantastic! the OP is really speaking my language here, especially the blank slate character. i hate with a passion the blank slate character in my opinion it's just lazy design. for me it turns a good game in to an OK game, and an OK game in to a bad game

 

[JezebelinHell]

His remark was aggressive as well, regardless of if he prefaced it with "I don't mean to come across as aggressive". Calling someone stupid because they hold a different opinion isn't very intelligent, especially when you just gave an example of how a medium can be used to service many different types of people.

Personally I think anything prefaced like that is pretty much meant to be exactly what they are trying to claim it isn't. Saying you realize you are going to be offensive does not make you less offensive. I actually think it makes you more so especially when it shows that you realized before hand that it would be perceived that way. Either don't say it, say it and take the fallout or find another way to say it.
[small]On another note, I just realized there are things other than trolls to feed around here. [/small]

 

[OrokuSaki]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think the word was supposed to be `triple'. `Trice' isn't actually a word.

Yes, I honestly didn't think of triple, I thought he misspelled "twice" because it IS possible to hit the w key instead of the r key, but p and c are all the way across the keyboard.

 

[22Phoenix22]

When it comes to the silent protagonist, it really depends on how well the writers of the game do their jobs.

The good:

Jedi Knight 2

Kyle Katarn has a very distinct personality but he is very likeable. Most of all he doesn't really impose his own morals on the player but just makes funny remarks and lets the player decide what his actual motives would be.

Prey

It is done well because the story is so simple. The guy just wants to see his girlfriend again, and doesn't have the interest in the old Indian folklore. His decisions are very easy to follow, since we've been seeing this motive since the first Mario Bros.

The bad:

Some parts of The Nameless Mod (a Deus Ex total conversion)

Now don't get me wrong, I LOVED TNM but some parts bothered me. I joined up with the corporation faction instead of the "police" faction, for the reason that I wanted some form of freedom without being someones puppet. I had a goal where I had to look for a moderator of the server, and after I found him my character held up an entire story about how he hated the "police" faction. I did not join the corporation for this reason! I did not hate the police, I just wanted the freedom and look at the case from a relatively neutral stance.

I can give some more examples but the main point is: a talking character is ok as long as he doesn't justify his reasons.

 

[Vault101]

His remark was aggressive as well, regardless of if he prefaced it with "I don't mean to come across as aggressive". Calling someone stupid because they hold a different opinion isn't very intelligent, especially when you just gave an example of how a medium can be used to service many different types of people.

Personally I think anything prefaced like that is pretty much meant to be exactly what they are trying to claim it isn't. Saying you realize you are going to be offensive does not make you less offensive. I actually think it makes you more so especially when it shows that you realized before hand that it would be perceived that way. Either don't say it, say it and take the fallout or find another way to say it.
[small]On another note, I just realized there are things other than trolls to feed around here. [/small]

interesting point

I will say that I was misunderstood there

I didnt think it was stupid because somone elses opinion was different than mine, I was talking about a stupid argument people have come up with as in:

"I dont want games to be considered art, then all games will be pretentious artsy games[/B] "

now really that just makes no sense

 

[rabidmidget]

All of the anti-religion arguments here, most are people blaming religion for the things that stupid people do in the name of religion and act like that's ALL religion has ever done, which is incredibly narrow minded.

And I'm not even religious.

Well if someone did something in the name of an organization, and that action is stupid, wouldn't you think that organization is stupid? All groups that have no entry requirements hold the risk of being represented by the wrong message. I wouldn't disagree that religion has brought on some good, but it surely isn't necessary for civilization.

Well in my opinion:

1)Ideologies should be judged on its own merits, not on those of its followers. An argument is equally valid or invalid, no matter who speaks it.

2)It was definitely important for the creation of civilisation, a society requires people with like-minded moral ideals for it to be formed and Religion is a great way for a common set of moral guidelines to spread.

Your second point is a very good one, but I consider religion to be like the training wheels of civilisation. It's about time we took them off, we're starting to look ridiculous.

EDIT: I should point out, just because I don't really want to get flamed today, that you are all entitled to believe what you need to believe to make you happy. I'm not going to try and take that from you and if you think that's what I'm saying then you miss my point entirely. Have a good day!

I guess we're in agreement there, in more advanced civilisations, the use of Religion as a moral compass is increasingly redundant as morals must change to fit new social circumstances. However Religion will probably always be necessary from a existential point of view, but that's more in terms of the individual than from a collective perspective.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Yea, PC gaming is not dying, its just a smaller market than Console gaming. Which hardly means it's dying.

 

[loukasmaki]

because as you all know my opinion its truly special [/sarcasm]

10. PC gaming is dying....Its not dying anymore than consoles are dying, I predict interesting times in the nest couple of generations...it may not be as straight forward as "get next console" or "upgrade rig"


9. Fallout 3 was a bad game , lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)


8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing- yeah I know I shouldnt go here, but I just did, I will go out on a limb and say ME wasnt much of a good in-depth RPG, aside form the main story arc exploring and doing sidequests really wasnt all that much fun/rewarding


or even getting items and such...all really felt like a palete swap, oh and the Mako...fuck the mako, sure arguably it could have been a bad thing for DA2..but not ME

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself



6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!, if they are art thenthere will only be artsy games"

what?

no seriously what?

ok....FILMS are a recognised art form, yet we still have youre summer block busters, your indie films and your oscar bait peices, get my drift here? gaming realy isnt any different

I dont mean to come across as agressive but this statment strikes me as incredibly stupid (and lets not debate what IS art because that goes nowhere fast)


5. everything is dying

no it isnt


4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...


3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

it isnt sad if youre having fun

10. Well PC gaming is changing atleast. Since people really don't need a big bulky PC in their homes anymore so justifying that expense only for gaming is troublesome.
It's even questionable if a laptop is needed anymore (depending on your computer needs)

9. *THERE BE SPOILERS HERE* I really liked Fallout 3. I cared about the main character and his dad. I even skipped most of the side quests and focused on the main story because I felt an urgency to save his dad (and I thought I could go back and do the quests afterwards anyway). In the end I could have won the last encounter with conversation and let the bad guy go but no I reacted purely on emotion and thought to myself "You killed my dad and I'm gonna take you down!" and shot him in the face. After that I sacrificed myself to stop the radioation poluting the water and died. And I can't bring myself to replay the game. The story is told, this is what happened. That's what I call immersion. And as someone else pointed out the franchise was dead up to that point so I don't see what the issue is.




8. When I play a RPG I want to ROLEPLAY. Play the role as a character. Not dick around in an inventory and spend obscene amounts of time customizing 6 diffrent characters weapons and armour. So in Mass Effect it was a relief that the inventory as such didn't really matter.
What I still have a problem with in Mass Effect is that even if I am a Super Agent in SPAAAACEEE I still have to put up with doing meaningless tasks for meaningless people to get ahead in the story.
"You want me to go and square your debt with that dude and THEN you'll give me the information I need? Hell no I'm gonna take you into an interrogation room and beat you until tell me what I want" <-- This is the Commander Shepard I would have played if the option had existed.



7. I can only agree about realism. It has it's place in some games and in others it doesn't. When I play Arma2 Operation Arrowhead it's all about the realism. If I play Duke Nukem not so much..

6. Again, I agree. Games are as much an art form as movies, books or comics. It's a medium that has the room for art and braindead entertainment and all in between.

And what I hope that more artsy games will bring to the rest of the gaming world is new ideas and perspectve. Speaking of artsy or pretentious games: http://impulsedriven.com/graveyard

5. Well everything dying is but in a much broader sense but it is a rather pointless discussion to be had


4. Depends.. sometimes a game really doesn't need a sequal. While I liked portal 2 it didn't the same appeal as portal 1. And I really don't wish to see a Portal 3.


2. Sometimes the blank character has it's place but quite often it's just lazy writing from the game developers part. The game I only can come to think of where I was bothered by the character not having a backstory or personality is fallout New vegas. It always bugged me that I didn't encounter anyone who knew me before I got shot in the head.


1. Gaming will influence the other aspects of life in some big ways I believe and hope. (See the Extra Credits videos about Gamification)

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

4: "Piracy is killing PC gaming!!!" ...So why was New Vegas on TPB for xbox 360 a week before release, yet didn't show up for PC until a week or two after? Explain that one. Also, kindly explain how Valve manages to make fistfuls of money catering to PC players.

6: "Game Z doesn't have lean, I'm boycotting!" ...So? You never use it anyways. I've watched plenty of COD4 matches on youtube and never once have I ever seen someone using lean.

For 4 you forgot to mention that most people who pirate console games usually buy them off the people that download them. I have never seen a console pirate that did it themselves so there is that too.

For 6 I don't know if you are just complaining about the lean part of the boycott as there were plenty of other reasons for the boycott. The whole reason they took out lean was because the maps weren't balanced for it which was a bullshit reason. It is just as pointless as if they took out vibration because a kb and mouse can't vibrate.That guys uses lean to great effect and I found that as a first video on searching CoD 4 so you were just looking at the wrong videos. I still try to use lean in BC 2.

OT: I agree with most of those although another one I don't agree which has already been mentioned is that a good gaming PC will cost you a kidney. All you need is a tiny bit of technical expertise if you want to do it all yourself and there are plenty of websites where you can ask questions and people will assist you.