"Touch-screen gadgets alienate blind"

[shadow skill]

I have a friend who is blind and plays World of Warcraft (has a level 72 Druid) through a self-made and designed add-on. Text-to-speech plays a huge part too. When she turns, the game tells her 'you are facing east' and such. And chimes sound louder and louder whenever she gets close to a quest to pick up, turn in or something she needs to pick up.

If they had a text-to-speech for touch-screens, that can be utilised with earphones or something, it'd help vlisually impaired/blind operate one. Having a blind friend, I constantly think about the things she misses out on and it doesn't seem fair to me.

That's just plain badass honestly. I bow before her awesomeness.

 

[Amoreyna]

Ummm, you really can't be stupid enough to believe that blind people can't navigate forum posts. There is software that is capable of reading all your self centered rubbish to them.

Your comments just go to show that people have no clue to how those with any type of disability are able to function. Ignorance really is a disease that seems to bring down society a little more each day.

Wow, sorry. My post was really intended to be a joke, sorry if that wasn't clear enough, really, I genuinely apologize if it seemed like I was making fun of the disabled.
Moving on...
Really? I'm the downfall of society? Me? I thought I was better than that, but you obviously know better.

I said ignorance is the downfall of society not that you have a personal role in it - though if you keep with the current attitude you might be able to help it along. The fact that a lot of people who have responded to this thread have absolutely no idea to how the blind can even use a computer just shows how little our society and its schools teaches. I especially love the comments that say that we basically cater to those with disabilities enough and that they live 'the best they can. What more can they ask for?' A better life would be number one. But then again I'm only a disabled veteran with a disaled mother, what the hell do I know?

/rant

I have a friend who is blind and plays World of Warcraft (has a level 72 Druid) through a self-made and designed add-on. Text-to-speech plays a huge part too. When she turns, the game tells her 'you are facing east' and such. And chimes sound louder and louder whenever she gets close to a quest to pick up, turn in or something she needs to pick up.

If they had a text-to-speech for touch-screens, that can be utilised with earphones or something, it'd help vlisually impaired/blind operate one. Having a blind friend, I constantly think about the things she misses out on and it doesn't seem fair to me.

That is absolutely amazing that your friend does that. Kudos to her.

And yes, earphones would make any text-to-speech program on phones managable. I'm not one who believes that we need to ban all technology that isn't accessible to all. Instead I think that we should simply implement easy alternatives so that others can use it as well. A lot of stuff is convuluted to those of us that can see - perhaps making it accessible to the blind would actually make things more user friendly to us all.

 

[dcheppy]

There's nothing wrong with being politically correct, and there is a backlash in modern society against PC that is unbelievable.

I'd be inclined to disagree - to an extent - with that comment. I believe there is a difference in what is these days referred to as Political Correctness and the more long standing tradition of basically not being unnecessarily offensive to other people. The concept that terms such as "brainstorm" and "blackboard" and even "learning disabilities" are now too offensive to use is quite frankly preposterous.

As way of an illustration, there was an articly in the newspaper today reagrding the pidgeon problem that has plagued my fine countries parliament building in recent times. The powers that be came up with the solution that having a hawk stationed at the building would keep the lfying rats at bay. The concept worked, but now some bright spark has stated that the use of the hawk to keep the pests at bay is not such a good idea, due to the fears that children from the nearby school (not that I've seen a school that close) may actually be at risk of seeing the hawk catch and kill a pidgeon.

I mean, seriously, is this all they have to do with their time? I'm sure these kids, being kids these days, have already seen a lot worse things happen on youtube anyway.

That's only one example, but it's hardly the worst...

Yes, I'll give you that there is a section of the population that takes PC too far to a ridiculous level but there is a much larger portion of the population that's like, "F**k PC, I'm gonna say it like it is!" and proceed to say and promote backwards thinking. Things like stereotypes, and discrimination, religious intolerance, and an overall lower level of discourse are all promoted through the PC backlash movement. Sure it can produce harmless stupidity when it goes the other way but its better than the harmful stupidity of too little PC.

Want to see a world without much PC? Check out youtube comments, or lightly modded internet forums and tell me that's what you want IRL. I'd gladly take touchscreens for blind people and hawkless parliaments over the alternative.

 

[GunnerGraye]

I guess we should stop making vehicles with pedals since it alienates those who have lost the use of their legs.

Many with disabilities seem think that the world should adapt to them rather than they adapt to it.

People who are extremely tall or short don't expect to walk into the average clothing store and find clothes that will fit them. The blind should not enter a store and expect the latest technology have them especially in mind.

There's a reason there are speciality stores. They cater to those with a specific need.

I mean, come on, you're blind. As if any of the features on these expensive phones you could even take advantage of.

Very true. I agree.

 

[Lazzi]

Ok I under stand that this is goign to sound uber politicaly correct but hear me out.

Blind people are right to have some concern about what is going on, touch screen technology may just become standard in the furture, and how things are going they are going to be completely left out.

how ever its still only in its infant phases so they shouldnt have to worry for a while.

 

[s0denone]

I guess we should stop making vehicles with pedals since it alienates those who have lost the use of their legs.

Many with disabilities seem think that the world should adapt to them rather than they adapt to it.

People who are extremely tall or short don't expect to walk into the average clothing store and find clothes that will fit them. The blind should not enter a store and expect the latest technology have them especially in mind.

There's a reason there are speciality stores. They cater to those with a specific need.

I mean, come on, you're blind. As if any of the features on these expensive phones you could even take advantage of.

If we remove the last sentence, then your post is awesome, and this thread should be finished!

 

[fluffylandmine]

This will never stop my blind jokes, ever.

Everyone is an idiot, to a degree. Everyone could use a little laugh at their expense from time to time. PC ends that and makes it bad to laugh at the expense of anything. Sensitivity(and sensitivity training for that matter) is a load of malarkey.

 

[Amoreyna]

Alright, I'm done, but I just want to make these last points. (And the questions are rhetorical, I don't actually wan't an answer)
1. I wasn't serious, now you may take offense to that, and if you do I apologize.
2. I said I was sorry earlier, what more do you want from me?
3. Again I was JOKING, sorry if I offended you.
4. You do realize you're debating with a 14 year old, right?
5. Why is all of your anger directed at me? You said you had a problem with other posters, take it up with them, not me.
6. JOKING!

Ironically enough, you're the one that keeps making everything I say about you. Outside of the first sentence my post that you quoted has nothing to do with you - instead I was extrapolating on what I meant in the previous post. Same with my original post, only the first part had to do with you, the second was merely an extended observation.

And by the way - it's really hard to accept an apology from someone when they go on and insult you in the next breath.

I guess we should stop making vehicles with pedals since it alienates those who have lost the use of their legs.

Many with disabilities seem think that the world should adapt to them rather than they adapt to it.

People who are extremely tall or short don't expect to walk into the average clothing store and find clothes that will fit them. The blind should not enter a store and expect the latest technology have them especially in mind.

There's a reason there are speciality stores. They cater to those with a specific need.

I mean, come on, you're blind. As if any of the features on these expensive phones you could even take advantage of.

Very true. I agree.

I'm sorry, where are these specality stores again? I seemed to have missed the stores that cater to the blind, or those with cerebral palsy etc.

Most people with disablities do not expect the world to adapt to them. In fact to have a belief like that would only hinder you. It would be nice to see some compromise though. It would be nice to also see that demand for others to adapt go down the drain. There are so many things those with disablities cannot engage in - a part of life that they will never know. To say that they must shut up and not expect anything and we'll find friendly technology when we have the time is part of reason so many are misinformed on the entire subject in the first place.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Here's a thought: if you can't read braille off of a touch-screen, then don't buy a touch-screen! There are plenty of devices on the market that have actual keypads and keyboards. I never buy anything with a touchscreen because my regular screens get enough fingerprints on them as it is.

That's all well and good now, but analysts are predicting that eventually touch screens will replace other input methods.

 

[Amoreyna]

This will never stop my blind jokes, ever.

Everyone is an idiot, to a degree. Everyone could use a little laugh at their expense from time to time. PC ends that and makes it bad to laugh at the expense of anything. Sensitivity(and sensitivity training for that matter) is a load of malarkey.

Actually I agree with you. I think it goes even further and limits free speech in general. People are afraid to say what they really feel if it doesn't correspond to the beliefs we are all supposed to have. You may have certain ideas or feelings towards someone or something but are afraid of saying anything because you don't want to be branded. The same goes for someone responding to something said - you seem to lose free speech if people don't agree with you or don't want to listen.

But having technology that allows more people to access it is not (or should not be) a PC thing. It should just be common sense. Some adjustments, most of them easy, could make a difference in the quality of the lives of others. Providing these should not be done just because it's politically correct but because it enhances life. Period.

People seem to miss this point. There's a lot of things that the blind have difficulty using. Someone in an earlier post said that those with sight limitations should buy appliances that are friendly for them. Unfortunately these either don't exist or cost so much that they cannot be afforded. When we have people who are fully functioning outside of not having their sight who do not even have a microwave that is easy to use, it makes me feel that we've failed somewhere.

 

[fluffylandmine]

This will never stop my blind jokes, ever.

Everyone is an idiot, to a degree. Everyone could use a little laugh at their expense from time to time. PC ends that and makes it bad to laugh at the expense of anything. Sensitivity(and sensitivity training for that matter) is a load of malarkey.

Actually I agree with you. I think it goes even further and limits free speech in general. People are afraid to say what they really feel if it doesn't correspond to the beliefs we are all supposed to have. You may have certain ideas or feelings towards someone or something but are afraid of saying anything because you don't want to be branded. The same goes for someone responding to something said - you seem to lose free speech if people don't agree with you or don't want to listen.

But having technology that allows more people to access it is not (or should not be) a PC thing. It should just be common sense. Some adjustments, most of them easy, could make a difference in the quality of the lives of others. Providing these should not be done just because it's politically correct but because it enhances life. Period.

People seem to miss this point. There's a lot of things that the blind have difficulty using. Someone in an earlier post said that those with sight limitations should buy appliances that are friendly for them. Unfortunately these either don't exist or cost so much that they cannot be afforded. When we have people who are fully functioning outside of not having their sight who do not even have a microwave that is easy to use, it makes me feel that we've failed somewhere.

Well the iPhone is an Apple product. User-friendly is not their thing. Catering to hipsters/'artists'/yuppies/'people who like sterile-white objects' is their thing.

 

[s0denone]

Here's a thought: if you can't read braille off of a touch-screen, then don't buy a touch-screen! There are plenty of devices on the market that have actual keypads and keyboards. I never buy anything with a touchscreen because my regular screens get enough fingerprints on them as it is.

That's all well and good now, but analysts are predicting that eventually touch screens will replace other input methods.

That's all well and good now, but everyone with a shed of common sense predict that handicap-friendly(Blindness included) products will also be marketed at this time, just as it is now.

 

[GunnerGraye]

I'm sorry, where are these specality stores again? I seemed to have missed the stores that cater to the blind, or those with cerebral palsy etc.

Most people with disablities do not expect the world to adapt to them. In fact to have a belief like that would only hinder you. It would be nice to see some compromise though. It would be nice to also see that demand for others to adapt go down the drain. There are so many things those with disablities cannot engage in - a part of life that they will never know. To say that they must shut up and not expect anything and we'll find friendly technology when we have the time is part of reason so many are misinformed on the entire subject in the first place.

Eh. You can tell me a lot of things and they won't really phase me. I'm very nice to blind people and disabled people in general, I always do help out when somebody obviously needs it. I'm not being unfair, simply saying that, is it impossible; that some blind people could be making complaints about things we simply cannot make any more different so that they could benefit from it? Perhaps some sort of iPod with braille on the buttons so they could know what they were selecting. I'm just agreeing that yes, there are disabled people who think the world must adapt to them. And if you think there isn't a single handicapped person with that idea, you are being unreasonable. I don;t mean to "misinform", but to share my opinion on the matter, to DISCUSS. As it was stated in the first post.

 

[Amoreyna]

This will never stop my blind jokes, ever.

Everyone is an idiot, to a degree. Everyone could use a little laugh at their expense from time to time. PC ends that and makes it bad to laugh at the expense of anything. Sensitivity(and sensitivity training for that matter) is a load of malarkey.

Actually I agree with you. I think it goes even further and limits free speech in general. People are afraid to say what they really feel if it doesn't correspond to the beliefs we are all supposed to have. You may have certain ideas or feelings towards someone or something but are afraid of saying anything because you don't want to be branded. The same goes for someone responding to something said - you seem to lose free speech if people don't agree with you or don't want to listen.

But having technology that allows more people to access it is not (or should not be) a PC thing. It should just be common sense. Some adjustments, most of them easy, could make a difference in the quality of the lives of others. Providing these should not be done just because it's politically correct but because it enhances life. Period.

People seem to miss this point. There's a lot of things that the blind have difficulty using. Someone in an earlier post said that those with sight limitations should buy appliances that are friendly for them. Unfortunately these either don't exist or cost so much that they cannot be afforded. When we have people who are fully functioning outside of not having their sight who do not even have a microwave that is easy to use, it makes me feel that we've failed somewhere.

Well the iPhone is an Apple product. User-friendly is not their thing. Catering to hipsters/'artists'/yuppies/'people who like sterile-white objects' is their thing.

lol - good point. The day I meet a user friendly Apple product is the day I see cows flying down the freeway as the next form of mass transit. It's a shame really - for all the advertising time and money they waste saying they are user friendly (even going so far as to tastlessly bash other companies into the gound) they could have made their products so intuitive that they could read the users mind and display wanted info instantly.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Here's a thought: if you can't read braille off of a touch-screen, then don't buy a touch-screen! There are plenty of devices on the market that have actual keypads and keyboards. I never buy anything with a touchscreen because my regular screens get enough fingerprints on them as it is.

That's all well and good now, but analysts are predicting that eventually touch screens will replace other input methods.

That's all well and good now, but everyone with a shed of common sense predict that handicap-friendly(Blindness included) products will also be marketed at this time, just as it is now.

"Don't worry Blind Eddie, we made this special cell phone, just for you!"

Indeed, the perfect solution.

 

[Alex_P]

There's nothing wrong with being politically correct, and there is a backlash in modern society against PC that is unbelievable.

In America, "political correctness" was never really a real thing. The American left always used it kinda ironically. In the 80s/90s, American conservatives latched onto the term and built up a bunch of FUD about a restrictive establishment around it. Unfortunately, they were so successful that now people do act like there is some kind of special "politically correct" establishment forcing them to be "PC".

So there is something wrong with self-consciously trying to be politically correct -- it means you've internalized a cultural construct that was created to serve as a straw man. Better to just resolve to not be an idiot and leave it at that.

-- Alex

 

[Amoreyna]

I'm sorry, where are these specality stores again? I seemed to have missed the stores that cater to the blind, or those with cerebral palsy etc.

Most people with disablities do not expect the world to adapt to them. In fact to have a belief like that would only hinder you. It would be nice to see some compromise though. It would be nice to also see that demand for others to adapt go down the drain. There are so many things those with disablities cannot engage in - a part of life that they will never know. To say that they must shut up and not expect anything and we'll find friendly technology when we have the time is part of reason so many are misinformed on the entire subject in the first place.

Eh. You can tell me a lot of things and they won't really phase me. I'm very nice to blind people and disabled people in general, I always do help out when somebody obviously needs it. I'm not being unfair, simply saying that, is it impossible; that some blind people could be making complaints about things we simply cannot make any more different so that they could benefit from it? Perhaps some sort of iPod with braille on the buttons so they could know what they were selecting. I'm just agreeing that yes, there are disabled people who think the world must adapt to them. And if you think there isn't a single handicapped person with that idea, you are being unreasonable. I don;t mean to "misinform", but to share my opinion on the matter, to DISCUSS. As it was stated in the first post.

Actually, I did say most people with disailities, not all - never said that there wasn't a single handicapped person with tht idea that the world should adapt to them. But you also don't have to be handicapped to have a chip on your shoulder and think that the world owes you something. There are many people out there today who demand that the world adapt to them and their beliefs that aren't handicapped. It's something we need to overcome, while at the same time reach a middle ground for those that need help.

It's good that you're nice to disabled people but here you're almost using it as a justification for your beliefs. What's actually interesting to me is how eager people are to help. While my mother was born with her physical disability I ended up being injured in the line of duty. It amazes me still that so many people will come and help me when they perceive that I need help - and how often I was left when I was abled body to struggle on my own. It's almost as if we are all trying to ease our conscience about disability in general. And I'm not singling you out here - just expanding.

In reality, how hard is it to make an appliance talk using today's technology? Really, that would be a huge step in making many things more accessible to people with limited to no sight. In fact it could be a feature that the user could toggle on and off so that the product itself could be mass produced meaning that the company loses nothing in the long run.

The article in question had very little to do with iPhones and a lot to do with technology in general and how unfriendly it is towards blind people. In an age where you have to know how to use technology in order to survive, find a job, make money etc it seems unreasonable that more can't be done.

 

[internutt]

We can not stop technology advancing for the few. The trick is to make it available to as many people as possible.

Really, the only thing blind people can not, and possibly will never be able to do is drive. Yes we have TomTom devices that audibly tell users which way to turn, but the most important thing about driving is knowing your surroundings, impossible without sight.

 

[shadow skill]

Text to speech is probably the hardest thing to do when it comes to adaptive technology. Human speech is evil when it comes to machines, it is even more painful trying to take human speech and translate it into text. It is getting much better though.

 

[GunnerGraye]

Actually, I did say most people with disailities, not all - never said that there wasn't a single handicapped person with tht idea that the world should adapt to them. But you also don't have to be handicapped to have a chip on your shoulder and think that the world owes you something. There are many people out there today who demand that the world adapt to them and their beliefs that aren't handicapped. It's something we need to overcome, while at the same time reach a middle ground for those that need help.

It's good that you're nice to disabled people but here you're almost using it as a justification for your beliefs. What's actually interesting to me is how eager people are to help. While my mother was born with her physical disability I ended up being injured in the line of duty. It amazes me still that so many people will come and help me when they perceive that I need help - and how often I was left when I was abled body to struggle on my own. It's almost as if we are all trying to ease our conscience about disability in general. And I'm not singling you out here - just expanding.

In reality, how hard is it to make an appliance talk using today's technology? Really, that would be a huge step in making many things more accessible to people with limited to no sight. In fact it could be a feature that the user could toggle on and off so that the product itself could be mass produced meaning that the company loses nothing in the long run.

The article in question had very little to do with iPhones and a lot to do with technology in general and how unfriendly it is towards blind people. In an age where you have to know how to use technology in order to survive, find a job, make money etc it seems unreasonable that more can't be done.

A justified point. I'm not saying specifically iPhones, but that was the first thing to come to mind. I don't assume people need help, I ask politely, and I'm not using being nice to people as a way to make my beliefs any better. I always do my best to be a kind and polite person. I mentioned that, as pointless as it was, but rather to show that I'm not someone who would go, "look at that handicapped guy! Let's take his wheelchair!", and think that it was hysterical. I don't know how hard it is to make talking technology, but my guess is that people don't stay on 1 thing long enough to make sure it's very accessible to everyone. People make things, they move on to the next thing. Sometimes modifications are made to such inventions so that they are more easily used. Most of the time though, they are not because consumers have a desire to get their hands on something they like better than the last thing. I support your argument that there should be more handi-assessable technologies and such. And my mother had broken her neck and had hurt her right arm in a way that doctors said she would never recover, but she has, but not afte a very long time of rehabilitation. So yes, I do myself, know what people with disabilities go through (to some extent.) I also thank you for making good points and being mature about your side of the discussion.