Trailers: Star Wars: The Old Republic Bounty Hunter Class Trailer

[Dastardly]

I get what you're saying, but it seems like a broad concern for the whole IP, not just BioWare's treatment of it.

...

I think there's room for deviation and I hope Bioware has taken some creative license, but I don't think ignoring the ideas and imagery of the films would serve them well.

It's both. LucasArts seems to love doing this, but also many of the folks that hop on board with them like to do it. Double jeopardy, that is.

I understand that having bounty hunters, jedi, smugglers, etc., is an absolute necessity. I agree completely. The inclusion of these iconic roles is part of what makes the dynamic decidedly "Star Warsy."

It's the inclusion of too much of the specific iconography that gets me. Why should all smugglers have a wookiee companion, for instance? Well, the obvious answer is because Han had one, and this is about you getting to live out your Han Solo fantasy! To which I must say, "If that's the case, just make me Han Solo. Don't tell me I'm creating my own character or writing my own story."

That's the place of single-player, fixed-storyline games. An MMO is supposed to be an opportunity for the players to live in the Star Wars universe. If they want to copy an existing character's style, let them... but don't make them by painting every bit of the landscape with the same six colors.

Everything about this game indicates it will be a heavily-guided (read: limited) experience.

1. Voice acting limits your character concept choices, because they can't record eleventeen different versions.

2. Space combat is an on-the-rail experience.

3. Your "epic storyline" gives you the exact same companions (by name!) as everyone else.

4. Every character in a particular class starts on the same planet and uses the same ship.

5. Because of the "armor progression," everyone will end up looking basically the same toward the end (like WoW).

These are all great features for a single-player epic. Not for an MMO. This is where BioWare is going very, very wrong. And where LucasArts tends to go wrong, as well.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Does anyone else go, "Oooh, Mass Effect," when that BioWare logo comes on? No? Just me? Hm...

For crying out loud, not all bounty hunters have to look like BOBA FETT!

They don't:
http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/classes/bounty-hunter/images/advclasses23/ss_merc01_800x450.jpg
http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/classes/bounty-hunter/images/advclasses23/ss_tech01_800x450.jpg

Tough guys with face-obscuring helmets and tons of guns/gadgets? Seems like Boba Fett to me, even if they are not identical to him. All bounty hunters need to be are people with the skills and equipment to take down their prey. This can be accomplished in multiple ways; they don't need to be overcomplicated. Boba Fett did his thing just fine, but almost all of the attempts I've seen at copying him come across as busy and uninteresting. I'd rather they give people an option to play around with a more minimalistic bounty hunter design. Maybe something like

Spoiler: this guy

 

[TeeBs]

Why does he look so similar to Boba Fett? He has the same job, yeah, but I don't think that Bounty Hunter is really a profession that requires any kind of uniform.

Bioware is setting up the classes like the movie archetypes. All Smugglers are Han Solo, all Bounty Hunters are Fett. Hell, the Sith Warriors are divided into dps Darth Mauls and tanking Vaders.

It's the one flaw I have a problem with in this game.

*gettin my nerd on*

Bounty Hunters and the Fetts as well as Clone Troopers all took there looks from the Mandalorians who are commonly found as Bounty Hunters just Like the Bothen Race is commonly spys.

The Smuggler and Sith thing is probably just about looking the part, and we haven't seen what possible customization there will be.

 

[Endocrom]

^ Jawas

You know, all this discussion of rehashing the same things is nice, but to be honest, I would totally geek out if you could play as whatever races Bossk and Boushh are.

 

[rsvp42]

1. Voice acting limits your character concept choices, because they can't record eleventeen different versions.

2. Space combat is an on-the-rail experience.

3. Your "epic storyline" gives you the exact same companions (by name!) as everyone else.

4. Every character in a particular class starts on the same planet and uses the same ship.

5. Because of the "armor progression," everyone will end up looking basically the same toward the end (like WoW).

These are all great features for a single-player epic. Not for an MMO. This is where BioWare is going very, very wrong. And where LucasArts tends to go wrong, as well.

1. The voice acting adds no more limitation than are already in MMOs. Standard questing in current MMOs is limited to accept/decline. Those are your only two options. Yes there's voice acting, but it's voice acting for more than two options. Quests will actually give you the choice of how to complete them. They won't all be just one track you're forced to take if you want experience. What about players in WoW, where their character concept is some kind of badass? They still have to heal those soldiers laying out there even if it doesn't make sense for their character. At least in BioWare stories, there's branching paths and options.

2. Space combat was never meant to be a big part of the game. the fact that people keep harping on it is ridiculous. This is all about ground combat. Is that the best choice? Won't know until I play.

3. And every player in other MMOs fights the same bosses, saves the same towns, and meets the same people. If you can suspend your disbelief for that, you can suspend your disbelief over companions. Besides, they can be equipped with different gear to make them look different at least. If it helps the story, why complain?

4. Every race in WoW starts in the same place. Every player in Rift starts in the same place as everyone else in their faction. This is not unheard of at all. Standardized starting zones is normal. Also you don't all get the same ship, you get the same model of ship. they're not all meant to be the same vessel.

5. This is a valid concern, but it's speculation since we don't yet know what variety there is. Again, we'll have to wait for release.

Does anyone else go, "Oooh, Mass Effect," when that BioWare logo comes on? No? Just me? Hm...

For crying out loud, not all bounty hunters have to look like BOBA FETT!

They don't:
http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/classes/bounty-hunter/images/advclasses23/ss_merc01_800x450.jpg
http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/classes/bounty-hunter/images/advclasses23/ss_tech01_800x450.jpg

Tough guys with face-obscuring helmets and tons of guns/gadgets? Seems like Boba Fett to me, even if they are not identical to him. All bounty hunters need to be are people with the skills and equipment to take down their prey. This can be accomplished in multiple ways; they don't need to be overcomplicated. Boba Fett did his thing just fine, but almost all of the attempts I've seen at copying him come across as busy and uninteresting. I'd rather they give people an option to play around with a more minimalistic bounty hunter design. Maybe something like

Spoiler: this guy

In Star Wars, they're dudes and chicks with specialized gear and armor. If you want a bounty hunter that runs around in a pinstripe suit, then Star Wars might not be the universe for you.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire to open up the archetype, but making each class recognizable and iconic is not a bad design choice per se. It's through and through a class-based system. People into mixing and matching, appearance tabs, and freeform stat builds probably won't like this game a whole lot. Then again, if it's fun and well-balanced that may not matter.

I get that this game isn't going to be everyone's favorite thing, but picking apart its basic design concept on a fundamental level is fruitless. Sure it has restrictions, but if they serve the gameplay and story and make a better game, all the woulda, coulda, shouldas in the world will mean nothing.

 

[HK_01]

You know, since reading the preview in my gaming magazine of choice (GameStar) a couple of weeks back, I'm afraid this game might be a horrible failure that will ruin Bioware and make EA close them or something. It's a huge investment, but it doesn't seem to be too impressive.

 

[standokan]

Aren't trailers supposed to be looking better than the actual game itself?

 

[Chris^^]

I'll be honest, that didn't look as impressive as I hoped it would :/ combat seems kinda clunky and the A.I. seem kinda dumb

 

[Random Argument Man]

Every time that I see a trailer of this MMO, I wish for KOTOR 3 instead.

No, the name of Bioware isn't enough to convince me otherwise.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Newsflash: That's how MMORPGs play. It's insanely difficult to implement live action gameplay (as in, FPS-esque combat) in a massive persistent world. Balancing it would be a nightmare, if even possible, and every game that has attempted "live combat" of that scale has failed miserably.

Don't take jabs at TOR in specific because it presents itself that way, that's just how the gameplay in the genre works. It's not quite turn based combat, but it's not completely real time either.

Actually, no. See, in even some of the worst games to come out for the MMO market these last few years simple fixes such as independent body animations have done wonders for visual continuity. I hate to use it as the ur-example, but it is; WoW. No matter where your character is, they can perform a huge range of animations on each body part - animations that can run over from previous activities to stop limbwarping. It's actually pretty common to allow for this, as it means you blend flinch animations with continuing attacks... something that would have made this video less facepalmy.

SWTOR loses so much by way of graphical cues because its beautiful attack motions look out of place in anything approaching an actual fight.

And, on a note of common courtesy, was 'Newsflash' necessary? I'm a person, my friend, not an internet boogeyman to be attacked for exp.

 

[Callate]

Apparently the Bounty Hunter class comes with a mandatory two-pack-a-day habit.

I want to see a bounty hunter from Yoda's race.

"Not but a bounty are you to me, yes..."

 

[Mittens The Kitten]

PLEASE!! FOR THE LOVE OF WHATEVER FORCE CONTROLLS THIS KIND THING, DONT LET THEM COOK THIS ONE UP!!!!

OHMYGAWD CAPZLOCK IS SOOOOO FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INORITE?

 

[Serum211]

PLEASE!! FOR THE LOVE OF WHATEVER FORCE CONTROLLS THIS KIND THING, DONT LET THEM COOK THIS ONE UP!!!!

OHMYGAWD CAPZLOCK IS SOOOOO FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INORITE?

Ok, seriously tho. I really hope they don't fail at this game. I think we can alll agree that we want this game too be good. And I need a good replacemnt to WoW.

 

[rsvp42]

Here's a quote from someone on the WoW forums who's played the beta. You can cry "bias" loudly into the night, but he clearly got a great impression from the game:

Actually, I have been in TOR beta for 3 months now. It won't "kill" wow. Nothing can kill WoW but Blizzard. You are right about that.
What you are wrong at is calling it a mediocre game. I have played SWG (Pre-CU-NGE), EQ2, WoW (since TBC), CoH before CoV was released, RIFT Beta, GW, GW2 closed test, Warhammer...

TOR rips them all a new one.. IF you are a fan of the genre and SW. By genre, I mean something NOT involving a bloody elf and another giant dragon. The combat, while not as dynamic as AION or Conan, is still leaps and bounds ahead of WoW. The graphics are a LOT more fluid and actually less cartoony.. if you can believe that.

It's linear, it makes sense, it removes 80% of the grind, it actually takes intelligence to play, you have to READ quests (even if you choose not to listen to the voice acting) in order to know what you are doing, and yes.... a decision you make 8 levels ago affects a quest you are doing at 12.

There are more classes overall, there is PvP combat, there are "instances"... taking from 2 up to X (X could be as high as 40) players, there is dynamic crafting... resource gathering.. NPCs doing your bidding for you while you are away.. NPCs doing your bidding in real time... actual UNIQUE players, etc...

I don't think this is the proper forum to discuss TOR, or anything BUT WoW, but out of all the MMOs I have played, TOR kicks the crap out of them all... and I haven't even seen the "final" version yet.

Fantasy fanboys won't be convinced. SW fanboys will argue tooth and nail.

Regardless... TOR will have it's niche that it doesn't have to share with anyone else. WoW fans will have other choices for the same type of MMO... RIFT and GW2. Fantasy magic hack and slash.

SWTOR will be competing with Phantasy Star.. Onli..ne... HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[rickthetrick]

Take Death Troopers, for instance. Star Wars zombie story. Great idea, and a terrific change of pace. It's set out in the middle of nowhere, it's set basically between the trilogies, which is largely unexplored territory. All kinds of possibilities! But then, for no reason, they cram Han Solo into the story right when it starts getting good. Again, it was getting really good until suddenly, "What the--?" We just had to put one of the movie bits in there.

I just read this book, and I thought the exact same thing.

Back OT:
So far this game looks very underwhelming. I may be proved wrong, but I'm not very hopeful.

 

[kingmob]

Wow, That was a really bad trailer. It has actually made me less excited
Seriously, you can also be too honest. Ugly looking graphics, bad combat, empty environments...

 

[rsvp42]

It's interesting.

People who are spectating trailers and videos are usually saying that it looks boring and ugly. Meanwhile, everyone who played the game(critics included) always say that the game is completely awesome.

I attribute this to too many trailers and not enough actual gameplay footage.

I think you're right about that. We need to see more gameplay and not just the snippets and leaks of low-level stuff we've been able to see. I'm really hoping PAX East is a turning point in that regard. BioWare has announced that up to 45 minutes of Taral V will be playable at PAX, as well as 10 mins or so of each class' starting area. They've said they'll be preparing video for people who don't make it out, so I really hope we get to see a big chunk of that instance, if nothing else. That's mid-level stuff, so it should mean decent gear, interesting combat, and good examples of how story is incorporated.

Another thing to remember is that often times, it's the haters that are the most vocal. If someone sees a video and likes it or has no strong opinion about it, they usually won't say anything. It's the folks with an unusually strong dislike for the game that actually post. and they don't necessarily represent the majority. The kind of people that denounce TOR and pine for KoTOR 3 just remind me of the people that denounced WoW and begged for WC4

As for the graphics, I really, honestly don't understand what people are on about. They look awesome for an MMO and the animations have been improving with each iteration. It's like there's some kind of "TOR-Haters Handbook" out there that says:

1. complain about story, no matter how little you know about the game
2. complain about graphics, no matter how good they are, without offering any basis for your opinion.
3. complain about space combat because you apparently lost your copy of Rogue Squadron II or something

I just don't understand the motivation. I mean, not to brag or anything, but I have impeccable taste in games. I really like how TOR is shaping up so it's almost inconceivable that so many random people can have such disdain for the game. But not even that. They don't just say "oh well I'm not a fan of BioWare's stories, so I'll pass." No, they predict the outright failure of the game. That to me is what's so crazy. Fanboys make sense. They like Star Wars or they like BioWare. Whatever, that's fine. But the people who actually want this game to fail? Why, because they happen to like Warcraft or Guild Wars? That's what boggles my mind.

anyway, /rant

edit: like this guy above ^^

Wow, That was a really bad trailer. It has actually made me less excited
Seriously, you can also be too honest. Ugly looking graphics, bad combat, empty environments...

How are these graphics in any way bad? How do these clips of moves make you think the combat is bad? I'd love to see someone who has these complaints actually explain them and help me understand why my opinion is completely opposite.

 

[ShenCS]

I'm simply loving the fresh and original characterisation of a bounty hunter.

 

[carpathic]

Looks a lot like Mass Effect in a star wars universe. Certainly some of the same artists were working on this.

Not that that is a bad thing, but any mans!

 

[kingmob]

How are these graphics in any way bad? How do these clips of moves make you think the combat is bad? I'd love to see someone who has these complaints actually explain them and help me understand why my opinion is completely opposite.

Wow, don't be so defensive, I'm only expressing my feelings after seeing the video. I really don't care if you disagree, sorry
To me the graphics (especially the textures) look bland, boring and low-res. The combat looked slow and 'off', especially at the rocket part. In the end there was nothing there to excite, just cliches and below standard visuals and animations.

Waste of time to rant so much about it. In the end the trailer worked the opposite way for me, apparently not for you.