Trailers: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Sith Warrior Progression

[Oro44]

Release. Date. Its been over two years now. I really want to like this game, but their making me nervous here.

 

[Bobbity]

The combat still looks somewhat stilted to me; hopefully they can get a little more work in on making it look natural before release.

Otherwise, this looks like it'll be genuinely good, and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[rsvp42]

Release. Date. Its been over two years now. I really want to like this game, but their making me nervous here.

I predict we'll hear something at E3, but that's just a guess.

 

[Saltyk]

If I can't make a Sith Juggernaut with a pink lightsaber and shiny purple armor, I'm gonna be a little disappointed. I also want to make him skinny and short. Talking with a lisp is too much to hope though, considering the voice actor they'll have set for him.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Bioware stated that they are going to have multiple voices for you to choose from. And every character is fully voiced. I doubt you'll get that lisp, but maybe you can get some close. Like tourettes! But probably not.

Ok. The animations look choppy. Given this is an MMO I never expected them to be brilliant though.

I'm doing to give the game a try at some point, maybe not day 1 purchase, but I think it actually sounds good. Definitely going to be Sith. They're far cooler (and have all the hottest babes).

My question is can you be different races apart from Human? As far as I know the Sith aren't too keen on non-humans.

Yeah, I'm not sure what people are comparing the animations to. I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison with other MMOs. Even then I suspect only a few would have slightly better animations.

And despite snide remarks from some of the community, yes there are other playable races: Twi'lek, Zabrak, Ratatakki, Sith Pureblood (as seen in this video), Chiss, Mirialans... can't remember if there are others. They're all humanoid, but fortunately you can pick between 4 body types, so that adds more variety. Sith Warriors can't be every race, but I know they can be human, pureblood, and... something else. Zabrak, maybe. There are also more alien species among the NPCs like Rodians, Ithorians, etc.

Actually, I'm not sure what people are complaining about in terms of combat. Was I the only one that saw the Sith Warrior blocking blaster bolts and crossing light sabers with Jedi? Maybe it wasn't perfect, but Bioware has yet to announce a release date, so until further notice this is a late stage build. They have plenty of time to refine it, but even if they don't, THIS looks better than even some non MMOs in animation.

 

[Blindrooster]

Alot of combat hate.... Am I the only one that enjoys this type of combat?i know its choppy looking, but it's relaxing. I'd choose the choppy animations of Kotor than CoD any day.

Anyways, ready for this game. I bought 2 months of galaxies in angst. (i played galaxies years ago) Galaxies has been......slighlty painful. Really can't wait for a more in depth star wars MMO with a kick A story. Take all the time you need bioware. Take all the time you need.....

 

[Faela]

If you go back and watch the older videos this is an improvement, it might make me sound stupid or whatever but I'm just happy to wait for the game, Bioware has always made incredible games, sure they have their faults (occassionaly and very rarely) but what game, Single player or other wise doesn't have its issues?

All MMO's have issues when they first release, I know Bioware is looking to make a very polished game, but even they wont be able to fix everything straight off the bat.

I am liking the look of this game alot and I'm just happy that they decided to make the game.

Oh and by the way, people hanging out and waiting for KOTOR 3, that isnt happening, Bioware have already said that TOR is going to tell the story of Kotor 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

 

[rsvp42]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Bioware stated that they are going to have multiple voices for you to choose from. And every character is fully voiced. I doubt you'll get that lisp, but maybe you can get some close. Like tourettes! But probably not.

I think the word is that there is one female voice and one male voice for each class, total of 16 voices. Due to the specific lines for each class story, I doubt we'll be able to choose (unless they paid for 16 voice actors to do all player character dialogue in the game, which sounds unlikely, since no executives were reported having heart attacks).

Actually, I'm not sure what people are complaining about in terms of combat. Was I the only one that saw the Sith Warrior blocking blaster bolts and crossing light sabers with Jedi? Maybe it wasn't perfect, but Bioware has yet to announce a release date, so until further notice this is a late stage build. They have plenty of time to refine it, but even if they don't, THIS looks better than even some non MMOs in animation.

I don't get it either. I think it looks good for an MMO. I've yet to see any decent support for this complaint and in fact, videos like this convince me of the quality of TOR's graphics compared to past, present, and even future games like GW2:

You'll notice towards the end of the video that GW2's character faces and lip sync animation are not yet at the level of SW:TOR, even though the environments are. That user has also posted combat and run/walk animation videos that showcase the improvements TOR is making.

I'll admit that certain animation transitions (one cycle to another, not the cycle itself) look rough in the current build of TOR. Abilities like that force choke start suddenly and certain other moves lack easing, but it's important to note a specific difference in TOR, namely the more dynamic interactions. Characters deflect blaster bolts and transition into moves like stock strikes and grenade throws while running. This means that animations in the upper an lower body need to work independently, but with an overall level of quality. But for a few odd transitions here and there, I think they've pulled it off admirably. I defy anyone to make a case stating otherwise. Until I see a comparison like the one above that leads to a different conclusion, I'll have to assume people that call TOR's graphics sub-par are just trolling.

That being said, it's clear that BioWare hasn't quite convinced people yet, so they do need to work on that. the quality is there, BioWare just needs to showcase it better so that the masses don't bleat "wah, GW2" on every freaking TOR-related article.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

Ew the more trailers i see the more i lose my exitement about this game.
And there only 3v3 5vs fights in this game?? THere is nothing massive about it so far.
It just feels like an ordinary BioWare game. And i bet you cant jump too X_X God why does bioware hate jumping?

At this point i think it will be a big deal if the game gets 1 mil subscribers. But it fails as wow killer. It doesnt blow me away. Well...the cinematincs do but hell Blizzard have awesome cinematics too!

 

[Saltyk]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Bioware stated that they are going to have multiple voices for you to choose from. And every character is fully voiced. I doubt you'll get that lisp, but maybe you can get some close. Like tourettes! But probably not.

I think the word is that there is one female voice and one male voice for each class, total of 16 voices. Due to the specific lines for each class story, I doubt we'll be able to choose (unless they paid for 16 voice actors to do all player character dialogue in the game, which sounds unlikely, since no executives were reported having heart attacks).

I thought I had read that there were more than just two each. Not that I mind. The concept of full voice overs for players and NPCs is a huge undertaking on its own.

And yes, i just did a search and found a post on the ToR forums that states that there are one male and female voice for each class. I'm not sure if that's correct or if they meant race. Time will tell.

Actually, I'm not sure what people are complaining about in terms of combat. Was I the only one that saw the Sith Warrior blocking blaster bolts and crossing light sabers with Jedi? Maybe it wasn't perfect, but Bioware has yet to announce a release date, so until further notice this is a late stage build. They have plenty of time to refine it, but even if they don't, THIS looks better than even some non MMOs in animation.

I don't get it either. I think it looks good for an MMO. I've yet to see any decent support for this complaint and in fact, videos like this convince me of the quality of TOR's graphics compared to past, present, and even future games like GW2:

You'll notice towards the end of the video that GW2's character faces and lip sync animation are not yet at the level of SW:TOR, even though the environments are. That user has also posted combat and run/walk animation videos that showcase the improvements TOR is making.

I'll admit that certain animation transitions (one cycle to another, not the cycle itself) look rough in the current build of TOR. Abilities like that force choke start suddenly and certain other moves lack easing, but it's important to note a specific difference in TOR, namely the more dynamic interactions. Characters deflect blaster bolts and transition into moves like stock strikes and grenade throws while running. This means that animations in the upper an lower body need to work independently, but with an overall level of quality. But for a few odd transitions here and there, I think they've pulled it off admirably. I defy anyone to make a case stating otherwise. Until I see a comparison like the one above that leads to a different conclusion, I'll have to assume people that call TOR's graphics sub-par are just trolling.

That being said, it's clear that BioWare hasn't quite convinced people yet, so they do need to work on that. the quality is there, BioWare just needs to showcase it better so that the masses don't bleat "wah, GW2" on every freaking TOR-related article.

Yes, but considering the size and scope of this game, minor cycle issues are minor. How often will anyone be fighting groups of Jedi (Empire is the only way to go) from a close up view? For that matter, how focused do you think they will be on the minor animations when they are under heavy fire? My bet is on not so much.

I seem to remember seeing some very old screen shots that showed over-sized lightsabers and the like. Yes, ToR has come far.

Personally, I think the recent video showing a group of players going through Taral V is one of the best showcases of what this game is capable of. It's from PAX, so you know its a recent build of the game, too.


This video is great because it shows actual gameplay with a party dynamic and an instance, known as Flashpoints (think dungeons). Combat looks very smooth. Perhaps better than in this Sith Warrior progression video. Just now, I watched most of this video and was looking for a rough spot in some of the animations (especially on the Jedi Knight), but I couldn't really spot any other than what looks like an minor issue with the Jedi Knight attacking enemies that are behind him. Though that could be a case of starting the attack with them in front and it ending with the enemy behind him. And that is far from unforgivable considering the environment that we are talking about. Maybe it was the angle or just everything that happens in game at once that distracted me from it. But that's kind of my point. And there are a ton of small details such as lightning strikes and shuttles landing with enemy forces. I did notice that the characters cloaks moved and flowed rather nicely, and that once more, the Jedi deflected blaster fire.

Honestly, I've watched it a few times and my only complaint is that the ship landing and take off seems very bland. Yep, that's my biggest complaint. I'm looking forward to this release.

 

[Saltyk]

Ew the more trailers i see the more i lose my exitement about this game.
And there only 3v3 5vs fights in this game?? THere is nothing massive about it so far.
It just feels like an ordinary BioWare game. And i bet you cant jump too X_X God why does bioware hate jumping?

At this point i think it will be a big deal if the game gets 1 mil subscribers. But it fails as wow killer. It doesnt blow me away. Well...the cinematincs do but hell Blizzard have awesome cinematics too!

I've been looking into the game, and I think I can alleviate some of your fears. Parties can have up to 4 players. PvP Warzones, think battlegrounds in WoW, are currently 8 vs 8. I can't say how many enemies you might fight at once, but Bioware is adament that they don't like the idea of 5 or 25 players beating up on one guy. I've seen more than a few were a single player character takes on mulitple enemies. Honestly, I just posted a video that shows some actual gameplay, you might want to check out.

Oh, and Bioware has already said that characters CAN jump. But no swimming as of yet.

 

[rsvp42]

snip

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I've been saying all this on the main forums for months. But I come back to the Escapist and see the comments and I'm like, what? Are we looking at the same game? Anyway, there's always going to be haters. I just prefer it when they have a good reason, not just the same canned negativity, with people parroting the same complaints they had year ago, despite all the improvements.

 

[Acidwell]

To be honest I think the worst looking thing about this video is that the lightsabers have no effect on the bodies. Anyone know if thats just for the trailers?

There's video evidence that sabers leave temporary strike marks on enemies, but that's about it. No severed limbs, no insta-death. That's how it was in the original KoTOR as well. Making them act like "real" sabers isn't good for balance or fun, just like making guns in CoD act like real guns would be frustrating and it's why swords and axes in WoW don't hurt people the way real swords and axes would.

I didnt mean insta-death just that critical kills or very high damage(Maybe double enemy hp) kills would cause a different death animation where they did have a dismembering effect. It would be fun to go back to an area like the starting area and just run through cutting of npc heads legs or arms like a real sith. Pity either way

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

anc[is]Wow, those animations are... fucking awful.

This.

 

[Vrach]

I think I'm going to skip this one and wait for KotOR 3.

I'd say don't hold your breath, but I'm actually a fan of natural selection...

Marauder will be the OP class/spec in this game, just watch.

I expect huge nerfs and I feel horrible for feeling this way because I don't want a MMO to have huge patches for nerfs or buffs because they hurried the game instead of waiting to make a 99% perfect game.

OP at what and may I ask what you're basing that claim on?

 

[Sjakie]

Prediction:

This game is gonna SUUUUCK badly.

Just look at the combat: it's so incredibly static. characters just stand there. If a guy with a lightsaber just chopped up 3 of my friends (and where are the dismember options? even Jedi knight 2 had that) i wouldn't just stand there, i'd be moving around!
Go look at another few trailers about the heavy trooper or smuggler. They basically just stand perfectly still and shooting at each other. Only ones who are moving somewhat are the Force users and only to get (back) in range

People who are gonna buy this will get disappointed right after they are done with all the "Oooh" and "Aaah's" about how everything looks and find out it's all package and poor gameplay.

 

[Kanatatsu]

Ugh, the character models look hideous. They should really reconsider the cartoony and stylized art direction, it fits in more with that awful SW cartoon show more then it does with the KoTOR games. The costumes and armor look ridiculous, and the proportions of the characters are on par with barbie dolls for being anatomically proportional, especially the overmuscled male models. Watching the development of ToR is like watching a car wreck in slow motion. It's horrifying to watch the extent to which they are willing to trash the KoTOR series in the name of milking it for all it's worth, but at the same time, I can't look away, because it is so fascinating to watch the extents to which they are going!

Go back to your store, Comic Book Guy.

 

[Therumancer]

Why do all the dudes look stupidly muscular?
JEDIS HAVE NO NEED FOR MUSCLE.

Yeah I was thinking that, there better be some Darth Sideous like Sith in this.

Plus, it looked like the final path to the Sith is some variation of "Darth Vader" with some kind of mechanical body. That or General Grevious.

Just out of curiosity, why did the Sith character saved the Twi'lek girl at the end there? I get that she may be an ally, but that few seconds seemed to emphasize this rescue, which gives me the impression the Sith in here are not the "evil" Jedi-side.

Well, The Sith are still people, and it's important to understand that they embrace emotions like love and passion, where the Jedi tend to try and supress those things. Or at least that's the way it is in some cycles.

Consider that as of the movie continuity, one of the big pressures on Anakin was the fact that he fell in live with Amidala and they had a thing going on, which had to be kept secret since Jedi weren't allowed to have personal attachments.

Whether or not this is part of the Jedi Order in "Old Republic" The Sith don't seem to follow the same attitude, and there is nothing that really prevents them from having affection for their allies. Of course there might be extremists who disagree.

It's important to understand that if the Sith were homicidally malevolent to the degree that a lot of people think, they couldn't hold an empire together... even under a "might makes right" principle. There has to be enough trust and social order to form armies and hold the command structures together, as well as maintain the logistical structure, keep the slaves in line, and similar things.

Something can be evil, without having to be ridiculously, over-the-top, snively whiplash malevolent all the time. That's one of the problems with morality systems in games (beyond this conversation) is that they rarely do anything but focus on the most intense extremes, especially when player characters are involved.

I think of the classic Yin Yang symbol, which represents duality. Part of the point of the balanced sides with a dot of the other color in each one is to show that there is no such thing as an absolute. There are going to be some good elements (even if small) in the most evil things, and a dark side to every good thing.

Remember, The Jedi might be good guys, but this whole war ends with them perpetuating multiple acts of genocide. They eventually wind up wiping out The Sith so totally that come the Star Wars movies, nobody even remembers what a Sith was for sure. A lot of the races making up their empire are wiped out to a man which is why they don't have a prescence or are around to provide historal backround.

So umm, yeah... the good guys do some really bad things for the right reasons, and the bad guys probably have their good side as well. A loyal subordinate is of course far more valuable than a slave, even if you view it purely in terms of pragmatism. It's always a benefit to have someone watch your back, and if a Sith can actually trust their Twi'lek companion, there is no real reason to just let her die.

 

[Therumancer]

The Sith Juggernaut is getting sum tonight, I'll tell ya that.

Kinda sad that the thing that stuck out most to me in the video was how robotic and emotionless that Twi'lek companion character looks.

They were all pretty robotic and emotionless

Well, to be fair, a lot of people have noticed this. For example take a look at the biggest chunk of gameplay footage we've seen so far:

http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/taral-v-developer-walkthrough

However, some valid points that can be made are that this game has spent a LONG time in development, which means that a lot of the code and artwork is as much as four years old in places. "Old Republic" presumably looking to be a smooth experience, and have a lot of actual content as opposed to going for the most bleeding edge technology (which it is obvious it will not have). Not to mention that one of the apparent design priorities was that since they are planning for the long term, they want this game to be relatively "light weight" and run on a lot of older systems, laptops, and similar things. I've even heard some speculation that they want this to be able to run over Ipads and such through 3G and 4G networks. Another point also being made is that a lot of parts of the game we aren't seeing are apparently very busy. The game has to be able to track things like parrying, blaster deflection, and a LOT of projectiles whipping around given the autofire and so on. This means that to avoid lag the quality has to suffer so it can render and track so many things going on. It's like comparing "Grand Theft Auto IV" to "Saint's Row 2", GTA4 has better graphics, but at the same time SR2 has a lot more going on at any time where it will be tracking battles involving like 3 differant sides while your cruising around in real time with a pretty customizable character that can be wearing literally hundreds of differant outfit combinations pretty seamlessly.

To some extent the somewhat stiff motion and so on have done a bit to sell me on the game, because it seems like we might be seeing an unusual occurance for the gaming industry: truth in advertising. Typically you see all these slickly produced, picture perfect examples of gameplay meant to illustrate everything from the best possible angles, with the slickest animated moves being performed... all expertly directed. When you get the actual game and play it on your actual home computer as opposed to a developer's console... well the game winds up being a lot differant in the way it looks and handles. People complain about it all the time. I'm guessing this is a more honest presentation of what the game will look like in practice, and if that's true it's fine.... of course there is the danger that this is the ultra slick, expertly directed version, and in actually playing the game it's going to look a whole heck of a lot worse than that. If that was the case though I'd imagine EA would have killed the project instead of continueing to pipe an uber-budget into it, since there would be no way to salvage something that is that big of a train wreck.

Of course, with all the delays I do confess to becoming increasingly concerned despite my high hopes and a budget that seems like it could lead to them being met by the developers. We were supposed to get a release date this month, and really all we've gotten is more promotional trailers.

Given how many years this game has been in development, it's not going to get any newer, and pushing the game up until next year (which keeps happening every year it seems) seems like it's going to do a lot of damage, I have to fight to keep interest in this game despite the high hopes, because there is a point beyond which they are going to lose quality through the passage of time, no matter how many delays they put in with the motivation of increasing quality.

I don't want to see the game rushed out, but let's be honest, this game has been "coming out in a few months" for two years now, plus all the development before that. It hasn't been being rushed.

 

[rsvp42]

To be honest I think the worst looking thing about this video is that the lightsabers have no effect on the bodies. Anyone know if thats just for the trailers?

There's video evidence that sabers leave temporary strike marks on enemies, but that's about it. No severed limbs, no insta-death. That's how it was in the original KoTOR as well. Making them act like "real" sabers isn't good for balance or fun, just like making guns in CoD act like real guns would be frustrating and it's why swords and axes in WoW don't hurt people the way real swords and axes would.

I didnt mean insta-death just that critical kills or very high damage(Maybe double enemy hp) kills would cause a different death animation where they did have a dismembering effect. It would be fun to go back to an area like the starting area and just run through cutting of npc heads legs or arms like a real sith. Pity either way

I wouldn't mind some cool finishing moves like that, but seeing as how it will be rated T (most likely) I doubt we'd see it. We might get some cutscenes where that kind of stuff happens though. I mean I hope at least one person gets a limb cut off.

 

[Oroboros]

Ugh, the character models look hideous. They should really reconsider the cartoony and stylized art direction, it fits in more with that awful SW cartoon show more then it does with the KoTOR games. The costumes and armor look ridiculous, and the proportions of the characters are on par with barbie dolls for being anatomically proportional, especially the overmuscled male models. Watching the development of ToR is like watching a car wreck in slow motion. It's horrifying to watch the extent to which they are willing to trash the KoTOR series in the name of milking it for all it's worth, but at the same time, I can't look away, because it is so fascinating to watch the extents to which they are going!

Go back to your store, Comic Book Guy.

Can't argue against my claim without resulting to insults? That doesn't help your position. Fact of the matter is, KoTOR I+II had more proportional character models then this, as well as a less stylized art direction in general.