Perception is a tricky thing. Author's perception, audience's perception, not to mention the range of perceptions within those.
Just in this thread we've got Bayonetta as sexually empowered and sexually exploited, Ripley as a good empowered woman unless you consider she would've been a man in another lifetime, and even bringing up how the chunks of angry muscle that are the "male fantasy" are considered paradigm in one place and immature idiots in another.
Personally, I think it makes a good case for making a wider variety to pick from, which I know Shamus has mentioned before. Lot more variety in our male characters than our female ones, protagonist or not. One strong female I'd like to play more is one that doesn't need to be a badass. I don't need a shooty, slicey, killy lady every time there's a strong female protagonist. Sometimes I just want to be a Laura Bow, even if it means I can't run when being chased because of my dress.
Zachary Amaranth said:
So you dont feel tricked that the most popular female is male minded....sort off?
Except she's not. Not even "sort off."
I'm aware taking a simplistic look at things is more popular than looking at what actually happened, but Ripley changed significantly from the original script regardless.
As were several of the other characters.
The end result is not a "male minded" character.
I remember something about Anita, where she used a edited video with the song "Too Manny Dicks" and lots of male characters AND female (I belive they were: Nariko from Heavenly Sword, Chell from Portal and the woman from Mirror's Edge)
Since we never get a straigh answer with this woman, we can only guess that she either put them there to demostrate how many womans are in AAA games or she simply thinks that those women dont count. Sort of like "No True Scottman" fallacy.
That is why i wanted to know under what perspective the bullshit of: "Ripley was a man on the script before changing it. That is why she seems more male oriented in mentality" would seem more like "cheating".
In the real world, there is no such thing as 'emotionally or mentally male'. There isn't a trick. Women and men are not automatically different, and gender identity is not set in stone. If the gender of a character is irrelevant to their actual personality, it's testimony to the artist having a broad experience in life and meeting a wider variety of people.
How to write a minority or woman: They see themselves as who they really are, but society see's them as black, or female, or gay.
And there isn't supposed to be a standard for women in reality nor fiction. Same goes for men. The point of gender equality is freedom. Being free to pursue your own ideal regardless of gender, not being pressured into what someone else views as the ideal for your gender.
In AAA western gaming, there is a lack of story/character variety, which is the problem.
I know there isnt a trick, i know there SHOULDNT be one, but even i am starting to doubt my common sense when everyone keep saying otherwise.
I guess George Orwell was right after all. Add sheer presure and you end up believing contradictory bullshit.
"If the gender of a character is irrelevant to their actual personality, it's testimony to the artist having a broad experience in life and meeting a wider variety of people. "
Or maybe he doesnt want to take chances. Take for example Jacob from Mass Effect 2. The audience doesnt like him because he is too generic, problably because the writers didnt want to push any racial issue ragarding his skin (even in a space opera). For that, they end up making a "meh" character.
Or maybe the writer is a total sociopath and doesnt go out often. A nihilistic asshole that sees every other being as pathethic and useless wastes, regardless of their futile choices in life. So he writes good characters regardless if they are humans or fucking Nodens, Cthylla and Nyarlathotep.
But lets not talk about me anymore.
You say that there ISNT a standard for women and YET there are people like Anita saying otherwise. Unfortunatelly she isnt willing to tell us what is it, so may as well ask you what could possibly be standard other than "balancing out the numbers by having female protagonist"? even if that is what happens you know that it will not be enough. Lets not forget that gamers cant do shit unless they speak with their wallet, and they will deny money to the developers if the game sucks, not because there is or isnt a female lead or women in proper clothing.
I dont see a gamer sacrificing the oportunity of playing a good game/story JUST because there is female that isn't properly represented (unless it affects the plot integrity or meaning)
Then there is the developers.....who are controlled by the producers, and if you dont convince them with numbers, then they wont care at all.
Zachary Amaranth said:
she is just calling sexist to anything she finds
Except she isn't, but it seems nobody is concerned with letting reality get in the way of a good rant.
Possibly because it was.
Post Number 932:
There is an entire section dedicated to ilustrate (in my opinion) the sheer number of reasons of why ICO isnt sexist. As expected, you didnt read it and its a shame because i wasted time watching that Lets Play on a game i dont give 2 fucks about.
Hell, if brevity is the soul if wit, then i can demostrate without that wall of text and a single image, that the game doesnt care about the gender you are because that ISNT what the story is about.
Please just look at my first post. I have never suggested that I don't want gender to not make a difference, I even go on to reference Buffy as a character that manages to maintain an air of badassery while being distinctly female gendered and not "woman that hits stuff". That's also why I point out that "dual-gendered protagonist" (ie. Cmd. Shephard) can not exist in games with strong, personal narratives, because in those games you need a well-defined protagonist.
Shepard......doesnt have a character, acording to certain someone. Hell, even in ME2 where he/she DIED and could have a personal moment reflecting its resurrection, went nowhere.
There is no character there. Just an avatar to follow the plot.
It is also why I think Chell is kind of a bad example of a good female protagonist, because her gender (or lack thereof, apart from the fatty jokes in Portal 2 it never makes any real difference) is completely inconsequential and is more like an informed ability you get by looking at yourself through portals.
I suppose that Dr. Freeman also could be considered genderless since the only moment where your gender is relevant is for when Alyx hits on you and when you are reminded to "repopulate" the Earth. I wonder what do female gamers feel about Freeman.
So yes, I do agree with you that I think gender has to have meaning. I am not saying every game has to make it super important and contain a fully researched and sourced discussion about gender theory, but it should at least be reflected in how your character is perceived by the rest of the cast.
Indeed. Only important if the plot brings it up and is good enough to allow other sub plots to exist and prosper properly. So we can reflect how that society/whatever sees gender.
EDIT: Also, thank you everyone who responded to my "accusations" against Chell. I am not necessarily saying I am making a complete reversal here and agreeing with you, but I'll definitely consider your points about her before discussing her more.
Dont care about Portal, my favorite insane AI was always AM from "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream". Cant play most of the games i discuss here (have to use Youtube) and the ones i played no one remembers them or are too attached to other games to give a fuck.