Turn Based Combat

Tadd

New member
Jan 22, 2010
62
0
0
poleboy said:
Oblivion combat immersive? Really?

[snip]

That's not immersive, it's just silly... and the AI is horrible.
I don't know though... I still get goosebumps when I one-shot a guy in the head and watch his body fall over a balcony; or when I swing a warhammer and have it crunch satisfyingly upon the temple of a bandit and send him plummeting 10 yards through the air. That's all pretty immersive for me. Yet, peppering enemies with 50+ arrows on a constant retreat does get tedious.

Whilst there are those who argue Morrowind was by far superior (plot wise, ambience wise, environment wise, etc), I have to say the combat in Oblivion was a huge upgrade and from the videos I've seen of Skyrim, I have to say I'm pretty excited.

OT, I'm a big fan of both systems, turn based and live action, I dusted-off Baldur's Gate 2 the other month and found myself adding 'auto-pauses' for various parts of a battle; thus enabling me to enjoy the best of both.

I rather enjoyed the turn-based battles in FF 7,8 and 10 especially when they deliver dialogue through a battle... these days I'm playing Dead Island and loving the immersion that it's combat system offers.
 

Shraggler

New member
Jan 6, 2009
216
0
0
gmaverick019 said:
dragon age is not real time...it is still turn based, just a faster illusion to give it a real time look to it. same with kotor.
That's true, but it's still a fairly large enough distance away from CL turn based gaming and Final Fantasy that I had fun with it and found it more immersive.
 

newwiseman

New member
Aug 27, 2010
1,325
0
0
There have been some good ATS/ABS system games in the past, Chrono Trigger was one and it could be enabled or disabled; not the best example but the only one I could remember the name of. The DreamCast had a near perfect one but for the life of me I can't remember the name at all.

It was turned based but the next characters order in the fight was based on that specific characters speed checked against all the other characters speed, with bonuses or subtractions based on the move previously used in the fight. In hard boss fights you could hammer the boss with weak attacks that lower his turn order and 'keep them busy'.

It wasn't very 'immersive' but it's as close as I think you can get while actively managing the moves of a party of individuals. To forgo that requires an AI that usually ends up being a hindrance at best and suicidal at worst.
 

searanox

New member
Sep 22, 2008
864
0
0
Turn-based combat is generally superior in games which rely upon heavy statistics and precise tactics, particularly wherein long-term planning is necessary over short-term reflexes and response. While it's possible to do this in a real-time situation, it is far more difficult, and almost always, the player's action skills take priority over strategic considerations. As a result, most action games tend to feature very simple combat by comparison - you can sometimes pull it off (see something like ArmA for shooters, Mount & Blade or Dark Souls for swordplay, etc.), but even then it rarely matches the depth possible when you aren't chained to your own twitch skills.

Additionally, unless you have great AI, chances are managing a party without a turn-based system is an extreme hassle; one reason I firmly believe later BioWare games are limited to smaller parties is precisely because the real-time nature of them would make any more than three or four very difficult to manage. Compare that to Icewind Dale, with parties of six custom-created characters, or Arcanum, with sometimes as many as eight, and you'll find that turn-based is basically the only way to go to ensure proper tactics and battlefield control. The word "battlefield" is key, by the way - the scale in a turn-based system (especially with an isometric perspective) is also generally going to be far greater than in real-time games.

It's also worth pointing out that it is way harder to simulate the nuances of combat in a real-time situation. How many of those games feature large battles with dozens of people or monsters involved simultaneously? What about different weapon types with their own distinct advantages and disadvantages, i.e. spears, halberds, staves, clubs and maces, long and short firearms, cavalry, cannons, and other stuff that tends to be "trimmed out" to save on budget and to make games more accessible? Sure, you can pull it off in a real-time context, but when you combine that with the need for modern-day graphical fidelity and accuracy as far as animation, physics, controls etc. goes, it becomes extremely expensive to try and build real-time combat around more than a single type of weapon. Imagine making a separate set of mechanics every bit as demanding as, say, the shooting in Gears of War, the melee combat in Ninja Gaiden, etc., and I think you'll realise that it just isn't very feasible without serious compromises that, frankly, most fans of real-time games would scoff at.

I also don't buy the argument that turn-based combat is less immersive. I get immersed into a game not so much due to great visuals and sound, but when I'm involved in a set of complex game mechanics which captivate and engage me. Good graphics and fluid controls and all that are important, but ultimately it's gameplay that keeps me coming back and gets me to say "just a few more minutes!", not how many hairs have been meticulously rendered on Commander Shepard's ass, or how much blood fountains up from a decapitated neck, or how much of a badass I'm made to feel like by a designer who thinks I need to compensate for something. Great turn-based combat is frequently far, far more engaging, exciting, demanding, and entertaining than hack-and-slash or shooty-shooty real-time combat can ever hope to be, because it's got the depth, nuance and challenge that so many of those other games lack.

That's not to say all real-time games are like that of course - I don't want to confuse the form itself with poor examples of it, and on that note, it's also worth mentioning that yes, shitty turn-based combat exists as well. Just keep in mind the distinction between the fundamental mechanics and the games themselves.

On a side note, I also just want to say that I almost always prefer grid-based turn-based combat over games that don't use grids. It can work, certainly, but not having that precise knowledge about whether a character is say, blocking a door, or not being 100% sure how far you can move in a turn always bugs me. That's why I tend to stay away from Infinity Engine combat - even though it's turn-based, it's still fairly imprecise and sketchy as to whether something will actually work or not, and it comes down to the interface and game design, not my skill as a player.

The fact is that all game mechanics are abstractions. We tend to hold up things that resemble real life as being more accurate and better, but I don't think this is a particularly healthy perspective to have. Games that simulate real life perfectly are very rarely fun (though this depends on the game and the individual), and we accept tons and tons of concessions in the name of entertainment. Why, then, hold one form of abstraction over another? It's like saying jazz is "better music" than classical - you can't directly compare them on any objective level and say one comes out on top. I can understand a person liking one and disliking another, but that's a matter of taste, not objective quality.
 

Weslebear

New member
Dec 9, 2009
606
0
0
Some games do make it feel slow and boring but when it's done well turn based really allows the tactics of the player to shine and not rely on just instinct and reflex for 80% of the combat.

Some games that do it well IMO Golden Sun series, The Last Remnant and FF13 did the charging bar style really nicely.
 

Petromir

New member
Apr 10, 2010
593
0
0
veloper said:
Saltyk said:
There's no problem with turn based combat. Plenty of games do it very well. I actually prefer it in certain games. But it really comes down to a case by case scenario. It wouldn't work in Call of Duty, but for games like Final Fantasy X, Legend of Legaia, or Suikoden II it works perfectly.

Incidentally, I think that was the biggest complaint about FFXIII's combat. It was too fast paced. Combat was moving at such a hectic rate that you couldn't select your actions fast enough. Especially when you had 6 or so slots and 20 different spells. As a result, you largely end up just selecting "auto-attack" to let the game select the most effective attacks itself. And at that point, you're not really playing your own game anymore. If you think turn based combat is boring, letting the game play itself is even more boring.

No_Remainders said:
Rabish Bini said:
I thought it worked well in KotOR..
That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.
Um. I hate to break it to you, but KOTOR was a turn based combat system. I believe it works out that 2 seconds is one turn. If you're in combat and you don't select an action, your character just automatically chooses to use a basic attack. You could que up to three actions ahead of time. It was fast paced, yes. But it was fast paced turn based combat. And nothing you or anyone else say will change that. I think Bioware even described it as turn based combat.

Oh, and it actually plays like Dungeons and Dragons, you just don't see the "dice rolls" unless you check your combat log.
The combat abilities may have time delays, but all units can MOVE at the same time, which disqualifies KOTOR from boing turn-based = 1 move at a time.
Still incorrect. Turn based does not preclude simaltanous turns or movement. Everything in KOTOR (and indeed a lot of MMOs, other RPGs etc)still technically happens on a turn basedcombat, just things like modifiers for movement etc are abstarcted so far that it may not apear this way. Just because you don't seee them and the rules don't conform directly to a particular set of turn based rules does not prevent the turn based nature of the game. KOTOR is a case in point, there were pleanty of actions that the game forced you to remain stationary for.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
It should always be real-time for one character, and it should always be turn-based for multiple characters.

Then again, I prefer turn-based to real time, mostly because "forgetting that you're playing a game" sounds ludicrous to me in the first place.
 

NickCaligo42

New member
Oct 7, 2007
1,371
0
0
pablogonzalez said:
the basic question is: How can a turn based combat system be immersive or work in sync with story?
First, "immersion" in the terms you put it in, is a load of pure crap. It's an idea invented by enthusiasts and game developers to justify points of laziness or personal preference in terms that exploit gaming's current struggle for artistic legitimacy. Games don't have to exactly mirror the behavior of real life, because they're games, and a good set of rules is a good set of rules. The goal should be more to capture the essence of an experience, not the entirety of it, and abstract mechanics (IE turn-based combat) offer a lot of useful devices for doing that, particularly if you want to put players in a leadership or "thinking" role as opposed to the stereotypical action-adventure type of experience.

Take X-COM: UFO Defense. You manage the budget, the layout, facilities, and staffing of your bases (up to six worldwide), research alien technology to develop new weapons, equipment, and facilities, and you send troops on missions to recover alien vessels and stave off alien terror attacks. It is nothing less than the complete experience of commanding the entire world's UFO defense grid, with a splash of turn-based combat simulation added in to spice things up--and you had better bet that players get really, really invested.


Watch this guy. Watch him cry out for the demise of Awesome Possum and Wesker, ripped down by the alien menace before their time. Look at the sheer tension of this fight. That's what turn-based mechanics are about--not think-on-your-feet kinetic action, but suspense.
 

1000000

New member
Dec 13, 2010
15
0
0
Okay this is ridiculous. I mean come on. I guess I should say I am disappointed but not surprised...

Where do I even start? First of all there seems to be some confusion over what immersion means and how it works. Put simply, a game is immersive as long as you feel involved with the game. A game only loses its immersion factor for a player who begins to metagame; that is when his or her thought processes concerning the game stray to things beyond what the game has presented.

I know that immersion is often generically described as "feeling like you're in the game," and to be fair that is a good rough definition, however it can be a little misleading. It carries the connotation that immersion is linked with reality, the real world, and realism, but these ideas aren't actually present in a more accurate definition of immersion. Immersion is just the feeling of being involved with a game in terms of the game.

Confused? Wondering what this has to do with turn based combat? I'm getting there, just setting the foundation first. As I said, immersion is that feeling of involvement with the game as it is presented. Realism has nothing to do with immersion, and ascribing lifelike or realistic qualities to a game will not inherently make it more immersive. So what does make a game more immersive? What breaks immersion? The fact is, I can't answer those questions for anyone else any more than they can answer them for me. Immersion is highly subjective, it's a simple as that.

Now you may be wondering: "how can you claim all these things when so many people seem to agree that realism improves a game's immersion quality? Hasn't realism always been the direction games are headed?" Well, that's a tricky question. Some aspects of games have been trending toward realism, most notably graphics. However, that's not to say all games are becoming more realistic visually. Artistic stylism is a good example of this. But what I mean is as technology advances, potential for realism increases. And as potential for realism increases, so too do expectations for it. Again, that's not to say that all players want to seek out more lifelike games, but given the choice between two similar games, most players would choose the technologically superior one, all else being equal.

It should come as no surprise that different players have different gaming preferences. I hope that we can all be open minded enough to accept that. I myself am an avid final fantasy fan, and I would be hard pressed to find another series that certain people hate with such fervor. And it should be obvious that with different preferences come different technological expectations. Aside from a small subsection of people who specifically like retro style games and such, most gamers have certain expectations for technological improvements over time. The caveat here is that they expect those improvements in different areas depending on their preferences for the types of games that they enjoy. I guarantee you that nobody expects the next Final Fantasy to incorporate real-time motion sensory input, the next Street Fighter to feature advanced dynamic dialogue options, or the next Bejewled to run on a state of the art physics engine.

Let's recap, and then bring it all together. First, immersion is involvement with a game in terms of the game, it does not necessarily require an element of realism. Next, immersion is highly subjective. It depends on both the player's expectations and the game's delivery of them. Third, as technology improves, so do most player's expectations. Fourth, players have different gaming preferences, and no type of game can be held as objectively superior to another. And finally, a player's expectations depend on his or her preferences. If you're paying close attention you might notice how these five things are linked. Just in case you don't, I'll put it all together. A given player has unique preferences, which determine his or her priorities for raised expectations based on improvements in technology, and these heightened expectations translate directly to expectations for a game's presentation and delivery. This effectively sets a threshold, beyond which a game will exceed the individual player's expectations for a given prioritized feature. So long as a player's technical expectations are met or exceeded, he or she can no longer be subject to broken immersion. At that point, the player's enjoyment of the game is bounded only by the quality of the game itself, and not his or her perception of the game.

At last we can analyze the original question under the lens of this concept. Suppose for example a player plays a turn based game, say FFX. If that player is predisposed to enjoy (or at least not dislike) the turn based combat abstraction, the game will have met that particular technical expectation for this player, he or she will not consider it beyond what the game requires, and consequently there will be no detrimental impact on immersion attributable to the nature of the turn based system. On the other hand if the player is not inclined to enjoy (or especially outright dislikes) turn based combat, perhaps favoring the more realistic approach of real time combat, then the game will not have reached the player's technical expectations in that area. As a result, the player will be reminded of the shortcoming during every combat engagement, forcing them to consider the game as an entity beyond its own terms, thereby removing that element of involvement with the game, and negatively affecting the player's immersion.

So you see, broken immersion does not follow directly from lack of realism unless the player finds it undesirable. The same holds true not only for realism, but for any aspect of any mechanical feature of a game.


tl;dr

As long as a player finds turn based combat in a particular game acceptable, it cannot break that player's immersion. This is ENTIRELY subjective.
 
Sep 14, 2009
9,073
0
0
Shraggler said:
gmaverick019 said:
dragon age is not real time...it is still turn based, just a faster illusion to give it a real time look to it. same with kotor.
That's true, but it's still a fairly large enough distance away from CL turn based gaming and Final Fantasy that I had fun with it and found it more immersive.
very true, they take it and illusion/speed it up enough that it doesn't feel that way at all.

still, i always enjoy turning on the numbers and rolls just to make myself feel more at home =]
 

Duskflamer

New member
Nov 8, 2009
355
0
0
veloper said:
Duskflamer said:
veloper said:
Saltyk said:
There's no problem with turn based combat. Plenty of games do it very well. I actually prefer it in certain games. But it really comes down to a case by case scenario. It wouldn't work in Call of Duty, but for games like Final Fantasy X, Legend of Legaia, or Suikoden II it works perfectly.

Incidentally, I think that was the biggest complaint about FFXIII's combat. It was too fast paced. Combat was moving at such a hectic rate that you couldn't select your actions fast enough. Especially when you had 6 or so slots and 20 different spells. As a result, you largely end up just selecting "auto-attack" to let the game select the most effective attacks itself. And at that point, you're not really playing your own game anymore. If you think turn based combat is boring, letting the game play itself is even more boring.

No_Remainders said:
Rabish Bini said:
I thought it worked well in KotOR..
That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.
Um. I hate to break it to you, but KOTOR was a turn based combat system. I believe it works out that 2 seconds is one turn. If you're in combat and you don't select an action, your character just automatically chooses to use a basic attack. You could que up to three actions ahead of time. It was fast paced, yes. But it was fast paced turn based combat. And nothing you or anyone else say will change that. I think Bioware even described it as turn based combat.

Oh, and it actually plays like Dungeons and Dragons, you just don't see the "dice rolls" unless you check your combat log.
The combat abilities may have time delays, but all units can MOVE at the same time, which disqualifies KOTOR from boing turn-based = 1 move at a time.
No, actually, the combat's just shown quickly enough that it seems as though that's the case (much like an actual round of DnD would look like, given that everyone is supposedly taking their move in the same 6 seconds of space). If you look in the combat log, it boils down to:

Ally A Rolled (whatever) And hit Enemy A for 6 damage
Enemy A Rolled (whatever) and missed Ally B
Ally B Rolled (whatever) and hit Enemy A for 8 damage, killing him.
Etc.

If you look closely, you can sometimes even tell where the division is between the rounds (particularly if everyone's using blasters, it's easy to see the .5 seconds of people aiming while the rolls take place in the background before they play out what happened).
I know how the game times the delays, to be a little bit more like turns, but the actual movement (not attacks, abilities or skills) doesn't go in turns at all.
Chess is turn-based. You cannot move your all pieces when it's not your turn, even if the target squares is unoccupied.
But if you move during a turn you don't get to participate in that round of combat.
 

Fightgarr

Concept Artist
Dec 3, 2008
2,913
0
0
Is real-time combat always more immersive? I found Oblivion's combat to be incredibly jarring. It never changed regardless of the enemies. Every enemy would run directly up to you and every enemy would attack in the same way. Similarly, regardless of your mage/warrior/rogue strategy, you would go about defeating every enemy in the exact same way. That tended to break the immersion for me, particularly when a high-defense or high-constitution enemy would come by and I'd sit their spamming the attack button for extensive periods, causing my character to clumsily slash their sword back and forth repeatedly in the same motion. That does not strike me as immersive. It strikes me as being just as dull and repetitive as poorly done turn-based combat.

You also may be confusing a sense of immersion with a sense of being your character, and in many cases, of course you aren't actually your character. If you're controlling several people simultaneously, it makes perfect sense to lighten the mental strain by having each character act in turn. It's very possible to make turn-based combat highly strategic, and many games have done just that. Many games have fucked it up hard, but I fail to see how it's impossible to immerse yourself in a world with turn-based combat. If the world is well-built enough, and the things in play in combat cater to the aesthetics and bounds of that world, it's perfectly capable of immersing you in that world. Remember that immersion can mean as much that you feel invested and involved with the goings on of a fictional world as much as it can mean you feel that you and your character are one in the same. In that sense, turn-based combat shouldn't necessarily break immersion, if done right.
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
8,225
0
0
depends on the game and if its like say, final fantasy, or Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth.

your basic (as of 10, which is the last one i saw through to the end) FF is line up, hit them with 'bits of stick' or spamming 'that one spell' that obliterates everything, or some cheap spell combo (vanish + doom in FF6). not bad per say, but fairly shallow

and while a game like VP:L tries to spice it up a bit, mages, while still glass cannons aren't able to spam their beastly spells, and with their 'cool' down time becomes an issue of how to spend their 'turn' and on what, while the melee characters can get weapons that allow multiple attacks per turn, which actually can effect weather your part member's miss or not, as you can have all 4 people attack at the same time(same time meaning, same real time second), further spice is in the finishers, which can be use much more frequently then other turn based RPG counterparts, and give how hard some of the bosses are (>.> looking at you Blood Bane) it gets really involving really quickly.

in strategy games, mostly troop management, honestly, here i see little use for it, unless its a console, due to a lack of mouse, but even then, most devs, GOOD devs have added game play mechanics to spice game play up and make it interesting beyond the typical RTS model of 'build base, raise army, march from one side of the map to the other an hope the important thing dies along the way'

as a side note, i'd like to point out, game play mechanics, do not, equal immersion, INTEREST in the games world creates immersion.
 

veloper

New member
Jan 20, 2009
4,597
0
0
Petromir said:
veloper said:
Saltyk said:
There's no problem with turn based combat. Plenty of games do it very well. I actually prefer it in certain games. But it really comes down to a case by case scenario. It wouldn't work in Call of Duty, but for games like Final Fantasy X, Legend of Legaia, or Suikoden II it works perfectly.

Incidentally, I think that was the biggest complaint about FFXIII's combat. It was too fast paced. Combat was moving at such a hectic rate that you couldn't select your actions fast enough. Especially when you had 6 or so slots and 20 different spells. As a result, you largely end up just selecting "auto-attack" to let the game select the most effective attacks itself. And at that point, you're not really playing your own game anymore. If you think turn based combat is boring, letting the game play itself is even more boring.

No_Remainders said:
Rabish Bini said:
I thought it worked well in KotOR..
That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.
Um. I hate to break it to you, but KOTOR was a turn based combat system. I believe it works out that 2 seconds is one turn. If you're in combat and you don't select an action, your character just automatically chooses to use a basic attack. You could que up to three actions ahead of time. It was fast paced, yes. But it was fast paced turn based combat. And nothing you or anyone else say will change that. I think Bioware even described it as turn based combat.

Oh, and it actually plays like Dungeons and Dragons, you just don't see the "dice rolls" unless you check your combat log.
The combat abilities may have time delays, but all units can MOVE at the same time, which disqualifies KOTOR from boing turn-based = 1 move at a time.
Still incorrect. Turn based does not preclude simaltanous turns or movement. Everything in KOTOR (and indeed a lot of MMOs, other RPGs etc)still technically happens on a turn basedcombat, just things like modifiers for movement etc are abstarcted so far that it may not apear this way.
Modifiers don't come into it. Movement is distance through time and in KOTOR this happens in realtime. That precludes turn-based.
KOTOR is RTWP.
 

veloper

New member
Jan 20, 2009
4,597
0
0
Duskflamer said:
veloper said:
Duskflamer said:
veloper said:
Saltyk said:
There's no problem with turn based combat. Plenty of games do it very well. I actually prefer it in certain games. But it really comes down to a case by case scenario. It wouldn't work in Call of Duty, but for games like Final Fantasy X, Legend of Legaia, or Suikoden II it works perfectly.

Incidentally, I think that was the biggest complaint about FFXIII's combat. It was too fast paced. Combat was moving at such a hectic rate that you couldn't select your actions fast enough. Especially when you had 6 or so slots and 20 different spells. As a result, you largely end up just selecting "auto-attack" to let the game select the most effective attacks itself. And at that point, you're not really playing your own game anymore. If you think turn based combat is boring, letting the game play itself is even more boring.

No_Remainders said:
Rabish Bini said:
I thought it worked well in KotOR..
That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.
Um. I hate to break it to you, but KOTOR was a turn based combat system. I believe it works out that 2 seconds is one turn. If you're in combat and you don't select an action, your character just automatically chooses to use a basic attack. You could que up to three actions ahead of time. It was fast paced, yes. But it was fast paced turn based combat. And nothing you or anyone else say will change that. I think Bioware even described it as turn based combat.

Oh, and it actually plays like Dungeons and Dragons, you just don't see the "dice rolls" unless you check your combat log.
The combat abilities may have time delays, but all units can MOVE at the same time, which disqualifies KOTOR from boing turn-based = 1 move at a time.
No, actually, the combat's just shown quickly enough that it seems as though that's the case (much like an actual round of DnD would look like, given that everyone is supposedly taking their move in the same 6 seconds of space). If you look in the combat log, it boils down to:

Ally A Rolled (whatever) And hit Enemy A for 6 damage
Enemy A Rolled (whatever) and missed Ally B
Ally B Rolled (whatever) and hit Enemy A for 8 damage, killing him.
Etc.

If you look closely, you can sometimes even tell where the division is between the rounds (particularly if everyone's using blasters, it's easy to see the .5 seconds of people aiming while the rolls take place in the background before they play out what happened).
I know how the game times the delays, to be a little bit more like turns, but the actual movement (not attacks, abilities or skills) doesn't go in turns at all.
Chess is turn-based. You cannot move your all pieces when it's not your turn, even if the target squares is unoccupied.
But if you move during a turn you don't get to participate in that round of combat.
It has it's uses.
In a similar RTWP game like NWN or Baldur's Gate, real time movement let's you dodge area attacks such as fireballs aimed at the ground, or when the area attack is homing in on you, you can damage the mage with by running up to it.
RTWP has it's realtime exploits, unlike a proper turn-based game like the tabletop D&D.
 

MightyRabbit

New member
Feb 16, 2011
219
0
0
I don't think it is a system that lends itself to immersion or blending with the story, but that doesn't make it a bad system. The sort of people who're looking for the strategic challenge such systems offer aren't looking for immersion.

Games will always have some disconnect from reality, and I don't think we need to try and force everything to strive towards immersion because it's not always necessary. Games like Civilisation or Pokemon haven't got such popular turn based systems that get obsessed over because they're immersive, but because people get to think about tactics and strategy that they don't get with more immersive and action-focused games.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
0
0
Turn based combat that doesn't break the immersion?

Most Super Mario RPG games. Take Paper Mario for GameCube. You chose your attack and let's say you chose the power bounce attack. You had to press A at the correct time in order to get another jump, each time the timing got harder to perfect.
The enemy attacks and you get to block it by either punching the enemy or guarding by pressing A and reduce the damage caused.

Just because you generally don't like turn based games it doesn't mean that it's not possible to make one that's good.
 

SeniorDingDong

New member
Jan 8, 2008
213
0
0
I love turn based combat in "grand scale" strategy games. They are kind of abstract enough to be emersive with and complex enough to actually make you wish to have turn based combat.
 

dimensional

New member
Jun 13, 2011
1,274
0
0
1000000 said:
Okay this is ridiculous. I mean come on. I guess I should say I am disappointed but not surprised...

Where do I even start? *big snip*
Good post I completely agree with you

Not sure what the problem with turn based combat is if the game is built around it to work with the system it can be very good i.e lots of rpgs from Baldurs gate (and every other old d&d rule based rpg to FF(any number you like I suppose) advance wars Disgaea etc. TBC generally allows you to focus on the bigger picture and control multiple units effectively and it is certainly not inherently bad sure sometimes you may just be selecting some default button but that happens in RTC as well.

As for RTC well that is awesome as well look at bayonetta and every good fighting game ever released just for a few examples, no system is going to fit all games you will select the best one or if none exist make your own like Valkyria Chronicles mainly being Turn based combat but also brilliantly fitting real time in there as well.