Twilight of the She-Geeks

[Geoffrey42]

Two things:
Supernatural
Smallville

I think both of them have a pretty decent handle on the whole 'man candy' angle, but they manage to have writing/plots that I enjoy (not the best ever, but I find them both entertaining, and typically not annoying), and at least Smallville isn't too stingy with the 'woman candy'.

Supernatural, on the other hand, was ravaged by its fans for trying to add 'woman candy'. I just enjoy how much self-referential humor they get out of the slash-fic angle applied to the story.

 

[Mushroomfreak111]

Nope, not gay the last time I checked. What I meant by the 'heads smaller than biceps' comment is that the majority of tough 'badass' guys in modern gaming seem to match that description (see Gears of War, Resident Evil, and God of War if you ignore his HUGE chin).

As for finding other gamers, I know your pain - I don't really have many gaming friends; about 1, and he's a bloke. As for why Girl Gamers are fabled, well, don't get this wrong, but up until about...8?ish years ago, finding a Girl Gamer was akin to finding rocking horse shit. And because of the booth babes, male gamers of my generation (I'm about 25) have a built in cynicism towards girls who claim they are gamers because, well, 99% of the time we found them to be posers and fakers.

As for the balloon sized tits, they don't appeal to me personally, but there have to be some men it appeals too, or else they wouldn't draw them

Yeah, so I didn't really have Gears of War in mind while writing my comment. It's 3am here tho, so I might be a little off. Anyway, characters like whats-his-name-again from Uncharted 2 was what I was thinking. Or Tom Hanks from movies. These are the kind of men that should be attractive to women. No one in their right mind would want to date the God of War dude, he makes me laugh!

Huh, I still don't think there are that many female gamers, but I'm sure they are on the rise. I just hope that people will be more open in the future, just cause I killed you doesn't mean I don't have breasts^^

Yeah, balloons must appeal to someone. I know my brother likes balloons, but he's 7 and think pokèmon is the shit, so...

Okay, I can respect how hard it is for the girl geeks. However, the ones that I hang out with have been making fun of me for years for watching science fiction movies with rather impressively endowed women. These same geeks love the Twilight series. Would it be wrong of me to call foul?

I don't see how it would be hard for the girl geeks, really. But the Twilight series would naturally appeal to many, especially teenage, girls because of all the sex-objects in it! I think you have all right to make fun of them back, IMO it's exactly the same as you paying special intrest in Sam Carter from Stargate SG1 for example (I like her, she's smart). And in stargate I think it's a lot more candy for the girls. I mean Teal'c and "MacGyver" are both awesome, but I used to have the biggest crush on Daniel Jackson^^. Not all geeky girls like geeks tho. Where am I going with this? I really thought I had an answer for your question in here! Well, good luck anyway.

 

[BonsaiK]

I like Twilight because it is basically porn, and I approve of porn on ideological grounds, so therefore if I am not being hypocritical I also must approve of Twilight. Thanks to the article writer for extrapolating on this basic concept for the good of the Escapist community, thereby saving me the trouble of having to go into any great detail about this myself. After all, if I started a "Twilight is porn" thread I'm SURE it would be locked quicksmart, so this article helpfully saves me from putting my foot in it.

 

[swenson]

OK, as a girl, I feel compelled to respond to all this. I'll start off by saying I hate Twilight. It objectifies women (what, Bella can't do ANYTHING by herself? Her whole life goes from "O NAO I AM SO DEPRESSED" to revolving around Edward), encourages unhealthy relationships (Edward, remember, is a creepy stalker pedophile), and is just plain terribly written.

That being said, of course I think the werewolves in the movie are hot. That's the point of them being in there. So I can understand why a lot (read: all) women love the werewolves, which are then used to lure them into saying "Oh, yeah, I love the series", even though when you remove the hot guys and put everything into perspective, it becomes an uninspired and slightly creepy series.

 

[spartan773]

Dear God this Twilight fandom has gotten out of control, it's spreading like a plague amongst the ranks of female nerds everywhere. It's a bloody epidemic!

 

[Mushroomfreak111]

Dear God this Twilight fandom has gotten out of control, it's spreading like a plague amongst the ranks of female nerds everywhere. It's a bloody epidemic!

Indeed, it's about time we started burning people and causing fear trough the media, right?

 

[MauraEllen]

I agree with some of what was said in the article, but I think some of it is way off track for a lot of twilight fans.

The images of weird twilight girls on T.V. do not speak for its entire fanbase, quite the contrary. I find that most twilight fans I meet keep their enjoyment of the series quiet (including myself), because most fans realize that the entire series is based on dumb fantasy and crappy writing.

The girls on T.V. are the ones who are so starved for any kind of attention from men that they feel they need to shamelessly throw themselves at the actors who portray their favorite characters. (This is the kind of statement that would get me lynched in a room full of "twi-hards" but it's just vibe they're putting out). Another problem with these kinds of fangirls is their obsessive desire for the relationships on-screen to be real off-screen, this is weird, and doesn't allow the actors to have real and separate personalities from their on-screen ones.

Not all twilight fans are like this.
Most are not.

The books are written badly, and they have a tendency to drag-on, with Bella being the most annoying character of all.
But that doesn't make reading them, or watching the movies, any less fun.
Most Twilight fans think the fact that the books are horribly written is VERY FUNNY.
And I find there's nothing better for one of these (normal) fans than sitting through the movie laughing at all the awkwardly written and completely unbelievable dialogue (I.E. "Bella, I have never wanted a human's blood more than I want yours, you're like a drug to me, like my own personal brand of heroine.") with fellow (normal) fans.

Most twilight fans treat the series as a guilty pleasure that they enjoy making fun of with their fellow twilight fans.

Twilight is like a twinkie, it has no nutritional value, and it would not keep you alive.
But sometimes, you just want a twinkie. It is nothing but fluff, and should be treated that way.

 

[Sara Grimes]

Very thoughtful analysis MovieBob! As a longtime fan of vampire fiction, I thought for sure that I'd get into the series along with everyone else. I'm usually a very generous reader/viewer and can get a kick out of a very broad range of media, both thematically and quality-wise. After reading the first Twilight book and seeing the first film last year, however, I was completely stunned. They were beyond awful - clumsy, excessive writing in the book, horrible directing/acting/editing/plot in the film, and both promoting these really creepy messages about female passivity, romanticizing abusive relationships. As the books/film's many critics have also pointed out, the story also re-appropriates the traditional parallels drawn between vampirism & sexuality into this bizarro discourse about abstinence and uncontrollable "male urges", all the while pinning much of the blame on the (would-be) victim for being "too" appealing. Yet, so many of my thoughtful, critical and otherwise extremely discerning friends are completely hooked on the franchise. And despite the huge flaws of the first film and the insane trajectory of the book series, the fanbase continues to grow and become (it seems) more fanatic. It's been a tough phenomenon to understand, and your comments give some much needed perspective about the huge role played by a simple lack of alternatives.Linking Twilight fandom with other forms of geekdom is also helpful - the objects of our geekdom rarely make sense to those outside of the subculture, and of course that's part of what makes them so darned precious and important to us.

 

[Bayushi_Kouya]

I find myself in a curious situation regarding Twilight. On one hand, I have everyone pissing in my ear about how awful it is. And after watching the first film, I am a little shocked that a book of that caliber made it all the way to production as a film. Be that as it may, I can't really bring myself to be upset about the film for a few reasons.

#1. I didn't pay to see it.
#2. I KNEW what it was going in.

What's more, I can't bring myself to be upset about New Moon and its preponderance of man-candy either. Unless said man-candy hinders the rest of the film in some way -- like, say, a David Fincher-style psychedelic swooping sex scene -- then I have an issue. But as to the fact that there's some beef in the display case doesn't bother me.

I long ago accepted that the media, particularly film studios, are catering to the least common denominator. I used to enjoy watching primetime dramas until they slowly morphed into various producers' takes on how hard they could pull on the ends of the sex/violence axes before the show snaps in the middle like an aluminum bar pulled around a telephone pole.

The Twilight series is precisely that: lowest common denominator entertainment. As others have stated before me in this thread, there are lots of womenfolk who don't got for the creepy-sculpted look for their fantasies, but it does test well in most percentiles, so there it is.

My point, which I should probably bring up before this gets any longer, is this: I must disagree with Movie Bob. I'm pretty sure that even if sci-fi/fantasy features specifically marketed towards XX-chromosomers were a healthy, robust subgenre, there'd still be things like the Twilight series out there, because of the lowest common denominator.

Good sci-fi, good anime, good fantasy, these things exist -- they're just hard to find when we're buried the staggering piles of shineless dross that is just good enough to earn some money for the creators. There's no sexual element to the Twilight phenomenon . . . just a monetary one.

 

[ccesarano]

That comic book image enlightened me to something: I don't think comic artists actually know how to draw boobs correctly. Even if the shape is right, the placement is all wrong.

On topic, while there's a lot of pandering to male fantasies in geek culture, there's also the simple fact that guys typically like something for more reasons than an inner fetish. At least, anything that becomes hugely popular. Take Conan: The Barbarian as an example. On the surface it seems to be an obsession with blood, violence and screwing women. Oh, and sorcery, too.

Yet just read a blog like The Cimmerian, or really think about the film, and there's always a deeper philosophy to Howard's writings. Is it meant to be some sort of Ivory Tower art form? Hell no, but that doesn't mean there isn't any greater appeal to it.

Twilight is NOT providing the same experience. Male sexual fantasies in games, books, D&D and whatnot are all wrapped up in a greater world of story telling. Twilight's central point is the pandering of sexuality and nothing else.

I will never get the appeal of vampires, but at least I can enjoy Interview With a Vampire despite seeing where the female orgasmo parade comes from.

 

[Halfbreed13]

Only good media has a basis other than sexual fantasies.
/thread

 

[MmmFiber]

MovieBob:

Irregardless of what you might think of me (if you've even read any of my stuff) I have a great deal of respect for you, but I think your a little off here on some of this.

Men and women aren't THAT differant when you get down to it. A lot of the Twilight images you've seen look like gay porn because on a lot of levels that is what they are. Women get off on that kind of thing the same way dudes get off on lesbians. It's a heavy subtext in a lot of the Paranormal romance stuff directed at women.


To put things into perspective there are plenty of images of erotic images of men directed at women. If you take a walk over a few aisles from the Sci-Fi/Fantasy/comics/RPing stuff in your local Waldenbooks you'll find the "chicks section" where they keep all the romance novels. Harlequins, etc... all of which feature pictures of attractive men in various erotic (though not overtly pornographic) poses with women, none of whom seem especially gay. Fabio (who is not aging gracefully apparently) became famous for posing for this kind of artwork, and allegedly Antonio Banderas did also before his film career. You'll also find artists like Julie Bell who draw all these perfectly formed guys without making them jump off the page as "wow, that's flaming".

Now, I'm not a photographer, but there is an artwork to that kind of thing that can make a picture say things without saying them. Use of light, color, lenses, whatever, but a good artist or photographer can convey a certain flavor of sexuality without being blatent about it. However it was done, those Twilight promotions ARE flaming. I get the same kind of impression from a lot of them, and honestly it's not some kind of discomfort due to the objectification of men or whatever because again I an look at artwork by guys like Frank Frazetta or Boris Valejo without getting the same impression. Ditto for other guys like say Van Damme showing off their awesome builds in photos for movies (well when they did movies like that which were good enough to actually see posters produced).

I tend to see it as the same thing when you take a couple of actresses and have them crawl over each other in a suggestive fashion or strike a suggestive pose which has nothing to do with the characters they play. The characters aren't lesbians but you as a guy are supposed to get that vibe. This is the same thing, and it's just shot that way, but in the opposite direction. You couldn't take a Frazetta picture of Conan or a Fabio shot and have it "pass" for the cover of a gay porn movie, but you COULD do that with some of the Twilight pics.

Just my thoughts, apologies about the length. I won't go off about fantasy art in general since this is long already. I just wanted to pretty much say that I don't think you or your friends are alone in getting that vibe, but at the same time I don't think anything is being projected onto that. Men have been as objectified as women if you know where to look and those promotions are stylized in a very specific way.

A. irregardless isn't a word. think about it.

B. Gay porn is for gay men. Most women do not like to see dudes doing each other. Trust me.

C. Just because the werewolf and the vampire are portrayed to be sexually attractive, doesn't mean that they are meant to be gay. In fact, they are not gay at all. Even if the entire werewolf clan or whatever came out completely buck naked, they wouldn't be gay. Now, if they started to make sexual advances on each other then they would be gay.

D. Movie Bob said that his first reaction was "That's gay," when he saw how the guys in twilight are portrayed, but then he said that it only seemed gay to him because he wasn't used to seeing males viewed in that light by mainstream movies. No matter how much you want them to be, an entire tribe of scantily clad amazons appearing in screen together aren't automatically lesbians. Or even meant to be seen as such.

 

[Urgh76]

i have no clue why Twighlight was soooo popular and loved. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good movie, im just saying its not that good to get all hyped up about it

 

[G1eet]

<quote=MovieBob>Thus, having caught myself in a less-uncharacteristic-than-I'd-like-it-to-be moment of Tucker Max behavior...

So someone else has read that unholy bible. I feel slightly less autophobic.

It was still a good read, though.

 

[spartan773]

Dear God this Twilight fandom has gotten out of control, it's spreading like a plague amongst the ranks of female nerds everywhere. It's a bloody epidemic!

Indeed, it's about time we started burning people and causing fear trough the media, right?

No. more like smacking some sense into Hollywood and Stephanie Meyer.

 

[shadowstriker86]

very true, but here's my argument

when we make fictional women ultra busty and hot, women complain.

when women make fictional guys ultra buff and tanned, we laugh.

Case in point: Men have a better sense of humor than women.

 

[DRADIS C0ntact]

I've heard over and over again from fellow (male) gamers that Twilight is terrible, awful, unoriginal, and various other derogative terms. Thing is, I honestly don't understand where all the bias hate is coming from. I watched the first film with no expectations for it be good, or bad. I was just curious what it was about because my wife was interested in it. And as it turns out, I really enjoyed the movie.

Maybe a lot of the disdain for the series is because it's mostly popular with females, and as males, some of us may feel threatened by the lustful portrayal of the leading men. That can automatically lead to contempt for something, even if you haven't watched or read the source material. And once you feel that contempt, it's incredibly hard to actually sit down and watch the movie without tainted eyes. All of which is absolutely no different from some women who feel threatened by the popularity of video games among males. Video games which all depict women as sexual objects with massive tits and tiny waists.

I guess what I'm saying is this: if you go into it with a chip on your shoulder, you're only going to "confirm" your feeling about how terrible the series is, no matter what. But if you actually open your mind a little, you might just discover that it's a pretty good story after all.

 

[Mushroomfreak111]

very true, but here's my argument

when we make fictional women ultra busty and hot, women complain.

when women make fictional guys ultra buff and tanned, we laugh.

Case in point: Men have a better sense of humor than women.

We do? I don't, and I have yet to hear any of my fellow female gamers complain about women in games being "ultra busty and hot". I quite frankly don't care, and I have never felt it has threatened my sexuality in any way. And I laugh at the ultra buff and tanned fictional guys too, what do you make of that?

I guess what I'm saying is this: if you go into it with a chip on your shoulder, you're only going to "confirm" your feeling about how terrible the series is, no matter what. But if you actually open your mind a little, you might just discover that it's a pretty good story after all.

I did watch this movie thinking it would be awesome. Many of my friends said it was soooo great. I really think the hours spent watching it was wasted. But maybe I just don't "get" they story. And btw I really didn't care for the female main character, she doesn't belong in the 21st century at all. But this is my opinion. I don't blame you for liking it, thankfully your not just like me, we are both individuals!

I think both men and women might feel threatened by how these fictional characters are portrayed, or supermodels that are "perfect". It's sort of in human nature to feel insecure, and when men construct "the perfect woman" girls might be fustrated that they can't live up to that standard. I'm sure loads of men feel the same way when they look at male icons like Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks. I think this doesn't go for all that many, but for some it does. Being super-attractive has become very important for both sexes in the past years, and I think games and other forms of fiction often base their character off the "perfect human". Me, I don't give a fuck. What you get is a flat-chested, lazy and video gaming nerdy brunette, if you can't handle that you got nothing to do in my apartment Of course I would like to feel somewhat comfortable with my body, but I do. I don't have a problem with not being a 6 foot blonde with double D's!

I see I'm way off course here, but you get my point. I hope... If you manage to decipher what I just wrote let me know^^

 

[SilentStranger]

I've thought about this too, but honestly, I dont approve of either. Sure, I LIKE scantily clad women, but I still prefer it when said scantily clad woman actually brings something to a story other than just eye candy. Same thing can be said about Edward and his ilk of paper thin blow up dolls.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

If any guys here have girls who want them to see it together, go watch if only to say afterwards...
"I'm breaking up with you, that movie has shown me just how hot men are and I am no longer interested in girls."

Cracked did a good bit on Twilight; http://www.cracked.com/funny-36-twilight/

It's not the homoerotic imagery suggested by the movies or the books, nor the bad acting. I don't like it because they took one of the most bloodthirsty and visceral icons in movie history and turned them into a bunch of whiny wussy weaklings.