Ubisoft Started, Scrapped Modern-Day Prince of Persia
- Thread starter John Funk
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Mmmm I dunno half life 1 has well laid out levels as did DOOM/Hertic/hexen,ect, by the time Half life 2 came around level design was more worried about looks and keeping the player busy with gun and run themes than *GASP* exploration and deep layouts, tho I guess Half life 2 dose have better than average levels if out look at today's standards but I rarely use that as a benchmark for qaulity as most of it sucks.Crono Maniac said:
As for FF7 the only thing wrong with it was the same thing wrong with all Jrpgs transitioning from 2D to 3D and thats town and level layouts, smaller less intricate...The wild arm remakes pisses me off to no end... FF7 equipment/balance was more geared to what combination's you used so it was not as bad as FF12/13 that are just mishmashed together, FFX was the pinnacle of a nicely developed class system well maybe it and 9, 9 was superior in everything but FFX had a couple good things going for it but the rest of the game was a chore, FF12 could not keep me awake even with the bunny girls and great level designs the skill and equipment systems were atrocious...and don't get me started on FF13 or Dragon age for that matter I already need a change of pants
.Sorry I can't stand the new(well 8 years old by now I think) normal standard of 4 or 5 being replaced with a 7 or 8.... but then again if it sells it dose not matter what it is I guess....
Bioshock is an ok game thats just more unfinished than most, I bought the hype from the start of a FPS RPG experience with intelligent AI, well equipment and inventory went out the window with the AI. I guess what gets me is its a simple casual game that was first billed as less casual more polished and defined game, hell even FO3 aint that,sad times... sad times indeed.
Stalker tries to be better but is an utter mess till the community fixed it BS could have been fixed but they did not relase the SDK so it remains unfinished....
Quality/less sales<less qaulity/lowest common denominator/more sells, natural human law is a scary thing....
Oh and Super metroid haz issues...er..... bomb jump is so tricky?!?!
Dude! Stay on topic!hem dazon 90 said:
When you whine about linearity in games that aren't focused on exploration, its obvious that your digging for reasons to complain. Also, you're complaining about HALF-LIFE 2.ZippyDSMlee said:
Hm. I actually found Seven's towns to be far more interesting than most SNES RPGs. Reasons why: Cosmo Canyon, Nibelheim, Wutai, The Forgotten City, and, of course, MIDGAR. (Incedentally, why do some people say FF7's first 5 hours are slow? Midgar is the best part of the whole game!) Compare that with Final Fantasy 4-6 and Chrono Trigger. Besides a few exceptions (Zozo for one), most of them are just generic towns populated with generic NPCs. Chrono Cross was fantastic in this regard too, as well as Final Fantasy 9.ZippyDSMlee said:As for FF7 the only thing wrong with it was the same thing wrong with all Jrpgs transitioning from 2D to 3D and thats town and level layouts, smaller less intricate...The wild arm remakes pisses me off to no end... FF7 equipment/balance was more geared to what combination's you used so it was not as bad as FF12/13 that are just mishmashed together, FFX was the pinnacle of a nicely developed class system well maybe it and 9, 9 was superior in everything but FFX had a couple good things going for it but the rest of the game was a chore, FF12 could not keep me awake even with the bunny girls and great level designs the skill and equipment systems were atrocious...and don't get me started on FF13 or Dragon age for that matter I already need a change of pants
I think it has to do with prerendered backgrounds being, in some ways, inherently superior to tilesets and textures. SNES games were horribly limited by what tiles they had to use, and textures are the same, just to a lesser degree (Keep in mind that Final Fantasy 4, 6, and Chrono Trigger are three of my favorite games ever). Prerendered graphics are limited purely by an artist's skill and imagination. Towns really started getting boring in the PS2 era, when Final Fantasy started sucking (10 was alright, though) and the market got clogged with crap.
And Final Fantasy 5's class system beats 9's any day of the week.
Also, remember when I said not to complain about linearity? Final Fantasy 13 is the exception. Complain about that garbage all you want.
I have no idea what this means.ZippyDSMlee said:
Maybe its because I didn't follow any of the hype, so I didn't know that BioShock was being sold as an FPS/RPG when I bought it, so I just assumed it was an FPS. And as an FPS, its spectacular. Half-Life didn't have any RPG elements, or inventories, and neither did Doom for that matter, and they're both fantastic games. And if you tell me that the climax with Andrew Ryan, the plot twist, the whole setting and focus on objectivism, are shallow, crappy, wankery, then... I don't know. If you think the plot to BioShock is lame, there is literally nothing I can say since to me, that just seems like a simple denial of fact rather than a reasoned argument. I don't have a rebuttal for the AI, simply because I didn't notice any problems and if you did it shouldn't detract from the experience as much as it seems to.ZippyDSMlee said:
Its supposed to be tricky, obviously. If bomb jumping was easy there would be no satisfaction in using it to skip the grapple beam or whatever. Same with walljumping. I reaffirm that the game is perfect.ZippyDSMlee said:Oh and Super metroid haz issues...er..... bomb jump is so tricky?!?!
This feels like the start of a beautiful friendship.
Thats one problem with modern gameing right their brand loyalty is mis placed to the point of fanboy isim.Crono Maniac said:
HL2 had good/great writing/dailog and AI even but the level design was a bit sparse.
I suppose its not linearity I am bthing about as much a level being bland/sparse in layouts.
Now thats a tough one I measure RPGs on a 3 point scale mechanics,level layouts and story, tho I can quickly ignore the story if the machanics are fun I used my code breaker on legaia 2 for inf weight and stacked accessories to insane levels it really made the game much more intresting. A shame youcan;t' do that with new games. But back to FF7, FF7 had great art direction I would not call its layouts bad but they were demure compared to the say FF4/FF6. I also had a small annoyance with the metria system making all the characters a bit generic but what saved it was the limit breaks that really brought out the individuality of the characters and on top of that you ould modfiy to varying degrees your somewhat rare/hard to find equipment,a shame FF8 just had the hard to find equipment I think they relied to much on the odd junction system that took acouple play throughs to master. FF12 is like FF7 in some regard tho I think it has better layouts/level design but not better art direction, what really killed me was bland classes bland skill system and a more generic than ever equipment system...if you could do 4 or so accesories that would have saved it from being so bland, also I noticed all the limit breaks or whatever being more or less the same with different animation I know I know that was not the case but it felt like it. I rather enjoyed the real time combat the gambit system only really needed more presets to save, combat could have been done a bit better taking into account distance and being able to move party members around a bit all in all I think it advanced the mechanics some. Now if you could get FF12 levels, FFX/FF9's class system,FF9s equipment,FFX/FF7's equipment customization set in a world with an overworld and not a easy/simple all in one world map to jump between points the FF brand would be respected again at least untill they did another side project as a main game....
Uhg do not talk to me about Chrono cross it was a inept mess of a game, they took a great RPG classic and made it into an ackward card game spin off, that one just did not compuete with me....and it did have alot going for it but the WTF mechanics were...well...WTFy 0-o
You say generic towns I say full towns with a good balance in plot/story centric people and random generic people, I really hate it when you get a town with 5-10 people in it and that was for awhile the standard of 3D RPGs, its changed some what but they still try and focus things a bit to much. As I have said before modern gaming is less about building a game/world but more about building a film like experience, its like oil and water one wants to to try and be deep the other wants to hurry and build a more generic experience in a film like fashion that saves time and budget. Dragon age is a good example of this I think you have very linear levels an ackward skill tree, a buggy script que system, awkwardly limited enchantment system(all the stats on all the weaopns/armor should be modifiable with a rune but they have like 10 different runes out of 50 or so stats, and armor/shields/bows are not slotted or bows at least are not)
Its pretty fun but I think FFtatics beats 5's mages with axes and cross bows FTW!!!
But as for a developed and polished non user imposed character class system that works with the story and such I think FF9 is tops, if you want a balls out customizable one where the story ignores classes for the most part its a toss up between FF8(if it had a normal magic system, draw sucks.... while I do not mind some tediousness...I gotta draw the line somewhere...hehehehe) FF7(metria really made the game without it it would have been a train wreck) or FF5. Mabye a mix of FF5 and FF7 would work out best you have limit breaks based on a characters personality and pseudo class(imgain cloud as a mage doing 100X less damage or so but using odd rods and staffs or even converting the weaopn attcks to the main style of the class he is in IE magic,summoning,ect only it takes a normal amount of MP for one spell but he dose a chain attack under the rules of the limit beak, each spell would have to have a weaopn attack vaule so it dose not into overkill without high will/magic power adjustment)
I think square is filled with to many chefs all of whom get to do side projects and dck with the games, I hope verses is better and not another side project posing as a main line game.
Did you play Dragon quest 8?
I was surprised it felt dragy but that was mroe due to the odd class/skill system they used other than that it felt like a classic game. A shame they pooed on the series already. >>
Basically the new average is around 7 and not 5, this is mostly do to the hype and submissiveness of the review industry, it irkes me, no one other than us black sheeple with the fence rash on our rears complains. Its like politics to a certain degree only in the opposite where teh sheeple do nothing but swill the hype and be lead around until after the election and the buzz wares off. Gaming tends to lose interest to bad vibes pre launch and rarely due to bad mechanics or bugs post launch.
I played System shock 2 and dues ex I have seen and played better, thats my problem most of the stuff thats done tends to be a shallow knock of mechanic wise of things that have been done and polished to to a high gloss. It also dose not help I absorb myself in the mechanics and practically ignore story unless the mechanics are shallow then I start focusing more on.
The plot to BS is not lame its very neat but the story or the way they peace mealed it out was lame sound bite limited audio logs with a few good dialogs with teh living, but back to the mechanics the AI really really was bad, it tended to be deaf or blind or hyper sensitive items being stuck up everyone's ..er everycrack in the game didn't help pacing and suspense any.
I tend to over emphasize mechanic issues and a ok to good game being crap becuse it failed to pass my smell test. LOL
Still when it comes down to it they really can do better but when most consumers don;t care there is little motivation to do better. Having more consumers means real world pressures pretty much ensure you do not do better , of couse I might be thinking to much with my shriveled up half a weeble brain..that or everything sucks as I preper to hit 40 in 5 or so years LOL curmudgeon here I come!
Mmm wall jump could be more responsive more like Fusion or Shinobi, or mega man X....it just is evil, bomb jumping should be tricky ball bomb jump een more so LOLZippyDSMlee said:Oh and Super metroid haz issues...er..... bomb jump is so tricky?!?!
Its supposed to be tricky, obviously. If bomb jumping was easy there would be no satisfaction in using it to skip the grapple beam or whatever. Same with walljumping. I reaffirm that the game is perfect.
This feels like the start of a beautiful friendship.
Tell me what did you think of the prime series? For the most part I think they are the pinnacle of the series well 1-2, but they are imperfect the new designs for the space pirates can be a turn off, the very linear controls can be madding for a FP gamer but other than that it took the game in a good direction, Another M is a bit of regurgitating the brand, its rather acidic story wise as they try and haphazardly do samus past,ect and its not pretty. Mechanics wise the game is half right I'd like to see a Metroid game like Odd Wolrd:Strangers wrath only with bigger,deeper leave design and mechanics. Have it so you can smoothly transition from FP to 3rd P with 3rd P having more auto aim but better acrobatic skills would really complete the series transition to 3D.
The same thing needs to be done to mega man and castlevina for the most part but capcom has stated they do not want to waste money on it since the last few 3D side scrolling console MM games did poorly..... CV is not a god of war clone...it is not *sucks thumb and rocks back and forth* it is not..... wheres my bishis!!!!!! lulz seriously tho CV on the consoles was flat and bland level design wise the combo system was antiquated(because its 3rd person you need to use the buttons for combos not the Dpad, GOW did at least one thing right for 3rdP action type games).CV really needs to be done like Zelda tho IE a world a set of obstacles to do some back tracking alot of exploration I do not think taking the simple action adventure approach of say RE/Onimusha/GOW is the best thing you can do for it its needs more not less.
/ramble
I'm glad they didn't do a current day Prince of Persia, there'd be no build up for it at all like why it's set there or anything....at least we know that if/when Assassin's Creed 3 happens as current day Desmond that we know we're already in the present but reliving the past.
You don't need a set up, hell one can be creative and have city states that mirror different royal houses/Mahārāja's of old only each state is a semi modern meets furtuertic city, something like dues ex 2, toss in a couple ancient locations and you have a full game.Cmd. Shepard said:
Combat can be a mix of DMC and normal prince of persia, limit guns usefullness and have the prince be forced to stand still a moment to hit a target more than 5X his height away, so he has kinda a gun kata style with his pistol's he also can get a sword, a fancy bladed rifle, and dual daggers. The time mechanic can be done via the sands of time are cursed sands that are controlled by an hour glass or dagger but the item breaks and you are infected with the sands but have neat powers, you fight for revenge at first but as you go on you start fighting to make things right before you die eventually you fix things like Sands of time like, only you manage to revive the control item and become a separate being from the time stream becoming an older more jaded figure than your pre cursed state. Oh the fun one can haz with POP story's!
Also....we need a new Beyond oasis game >>(playing the Saturn one now)
Interesting idea but there's no way that it could be called Prince of Persia anymore, it could be another game but without Persia.....there can't be a Prince, it's not a game series meant to be transferred to normal time periods. If you have to mix other games combat mechanics in to make it viable to present day times then it just doesn't fit.ZippyDSMlee said:
Persia is a name of a country, in a general location of a certain period of time.Cmd. Shepard said:
When one waves a story all you need is figurative information, not necessarily precise detailed information.
So for the story you do this in the middle east, or even Africa( basically desert locations without much or any government in the area) a country was formed. This country was made by many rich merchant families, each family lives in a walled city state.
The art direction and themes are based on Persia as a great revival of the culture, Zoroastrianism and Feudalism, basically power compressed around a few groups/persons. The governments had a hard time dealing with them a few wars started out and then changing the landscape and boarders a bit to where "Neo Persia" could be defined. This process took 200-400 years from current times but technology has not advanced much due to a couple global economic collapses. Now we have a setting Persia remade in semi futuristic but overly modern times, or modern yet subtly futuristic times, words...I haz to many ><
Anyway the cities are tiered lower levels is where raw infrastructure is and the poorest live and scrape a living together the next level is where all the maintenance people and their families live as well as the lower middle class, the next tier is where merchants,traders and the upper middle class live. The top level is where high class royalty lives, the palace is in its center on top. Its like a mini midgar, mabye half or so the size of it.
Now cities themselfs have found great wealth under the sands be it archeological, infinite amounts of oil, natural gas, diamond, ore,ect,ect or a strange natural coal thats so compressed and reformed similar to coke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_%28fuel%29 , but its 100 times cleaner and 100 times longer lasting and produces much more heat then try and implement a process to add a few chemicals to it and it can produce almost infinite amounts of heat if kept at a certain level. Or just let them invent easy fusion/fission which might be simpler, anyway they left their homelands to rebuild themselves and they came together to create the country, they limited in fighting until their cities where built, at which time they fought each other when they could and managed to keep invaders out while trading with the world.
Mechanics would be like the other POP games, only range weapons would be swapped out with guns,the Prince gets a couple guns as weapons and a few upgraded versions to them. These guns have unlimited ammo so you don't have to worry about that, you make the bullets out of sand, instead you have clip sizes, reload times and 2 level of jamming, a simple jam means one motion in a combo dose no damage a full jam means you have to reload which can be done while dodging. A rifle type of weaopn might need ammo and you use it for sniping and devastating close combat combination's, perhaps have the rifle having a very small clip and once you emtpy a clip in under 10-30 seconds it has to cool off before firing again.
Pistols also have a limited range, due to you creating the bullet from compressed sand, but the better the pistol you get 25% on range, larger clip better reload times and less jamming.
Guns are mostly used in close range to blow out knees, elbows, get past armor and but heavy damage on a downed monster. Most guns are bad at blocking so you need to dodge get in close and knock em around if you use[istols, the rifle with have a blade on it so its like a large sword slow but it can block about anything and getting off a shot at close range will send them flying, also you can chose slug or shotshell with it and have a sawed off kind of hit to help with group battles. Then you have the normal daggers have one of them and a pistol gives fair blocking ability and easy counter attack with the pistol, 2 daggers you can block anything but heavy attacks and have a fair amount of quick combos to work with, pistols would be medium speed no blocking and moderate close rang damage if its not close the best you can do is make im trip.
Aiming is done DMC style with random location targeting, at the lest every 3 non close shot will knock a random target down. If you got 2 pistols its 2 shots so group battles you pop in mess with them get back a bit knock some down then jump back in and take one or 2 out with the others are getting back up. Daggers independently block as well, so you have some fun options, now each dagger can easily take a lite attack both can handle a medium and the best can handle a heavy attack , on the large weapons can defend a bit of a super attack IE take a bit less damage and do not get blown over.
Rifle aiming can be done either in a over the shoulder I am aiming it mode in which you can not move, or in a melee combo.
now monsters can have 3 or 5 types of guns but rarely will you have to kick in time maniplulation to deal with them. Zombies shoot for sht yo! Warroir zombies might be worse...er better? LOL
Speaking of which the sand curse made half the populace of the region into sand zombies, you also have sand monsters. Zombies tend to have basic weapons or guns, the bigger monsters are more classic style favoring bashing/slashing implements tho a few are warped sand zombies crossing the size speed and speed of a monster with some guns.
Traps are also everywhere, when the alarm's go off people ran off to shelters while the city slowly closed down. One of the reasons why they do most of their fighting out side with armies as once a city shuts down for protection the trap systems make it nearly imposable to raid or get far inside it.
I guess you could spin it off to Price of the cursed sands, its basically POP with a slightly different spin/setting.
uhgggggg I am running of of brain power need to plug myself in and get soem jucie *unzip* Zap zap zap zap zap*.... LOL