UK Atheists Hope to Eliminate Jedi Population
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
The thing is does puting down No Religion classify you as athiest or agnostic? If athiest then perhaps this group is having a whinge because they want their statistics to increase. Though I could'nt understand why, being a majority gives you less privileges.
But still, star trek is a borderline religion (watch trekkies to understand my point) & if they think a sci-fi cult cant be labelled a religion then how did scientology get away with it?
Besides since the US military have (& probably still are) been trying to replicate lightsabres & other starwars type weapons since the 80s they're probably afraid that if they're successful & by that time Jedi becomes a full fledged religion the jedis could legally obtain these weapons for private use as they are religious artifacts.
But still, star trek is a borderline religion (watch trekkies to understand my point) & if they think a sci-fi cult cant be labelled a religion then how did scientology get away with it?
Besides since the US military have (& probably still are) been trying to replicate lightsabres & other starwars type weapons since the 80s they're probably afraid that if they're successful & by that time Jedi becomes a full fledged religion the jedis could legally obtain these weapons for private use as they are religious artifacts.
As far as i have read the replys are about two things now: If "Jediism" should be choosable, or if the census is necessary at all.
First, the census is a governmental mechanism which is only common in democracy for a reason. However it is up to the actual government if the results are used to suppress grievances or to actually improve the government and politics for the people (which is hard to achieve, but should be the reason to use it after all) while all of those who argument "care your own business" should know: they DON'T care about YOUR business at all, that's why your name is (or should be) erased in the early process, they care about the masses!
Second, if Jediism should be choosable. At this point i have to say that the campaign is obviously an "order 66" to suppress something which has some potential and is hard to predict! And why shouldn't people choose Jediism? If they don't believe in it, yes, but otherwise there is no reason at all! To choose whatever you like is the right of free will, just like some choose "Christianity" just because they pay the taxes for it, or some choose "Scientology", even it is one of the youngest religions and questionable just like all the others. But to believe is also your right and to tolerate other religions/ ways to believe is what separates someone from extremists.
In conclusion: Take part of the census and choose whatever you like because it is your right to do and as long as you watch what is done with your data, everything will be ok.
First, the census is a governmental mechanism which is only common in democracy for a reason. However it is up to the actual government if the results are used to suppress grievances or to actually improve the government and politics for the people (which is hard to achieve, but should be the reason to use it after all) while all of those who argument "care your own business" should know: they DON'T care about YOUR business at all, that's why your name is (or should be) erased in the early process, they care about the masses!
Second, if Jediism should be choosable. At this point i have to say that the campaign is obviously an "order 66" to suppress something which has some potential and is hard to predict! And why shouldn't people choose Jediism? If they don't believe in it, yes, but otherwise there is no reason at all! To choose whatever you like is the right of free will, just like some choose "Christianity" just because they pay the taxes for it, or some choose "Scientology", even it is one of the youngest religions and questionable just like all the others. But to believe is also your right and to tolerate other religions/ ways to believe is what separates someone from extremists.
In conclusion: Take part of the census and choose whatever you like because it is your right to do and as long as you watch what is done with your data, everything will be ok.
no religion = only a disbelief in god, not absolute certaintydarkstarangel said:
a/theism and a/gnosticism address different things. everyone is a combination of atheist/theist and agnostic/gnostic. but a/gnosticism doesnt address the issue in question of what religion, or lack of, someone subscribes to.
The key point to be raised really is if you tick no religion does the money just get split between the other religions and they get a bigger share or does it go to other things that actually matter like the NHS and local councils because if ticking "no religion" just gives the others extra money then ticking "no religion" is a terrible idea in my opinion. I'd rather see a joke religion get money instead of real ones to fund the grand delusions than spawn from them.
Another way to consider it: if everyone pays taxes then everyone should be able to decide on where their bit of "religious tax" goes and if they tick "no religion" then shouldn't they get a small tax exemption?
Another way to consider it: if everyone pays taxes then everyone should be able to decide on where their bit of "religious tax" goes and if they tick "no religion" then shouldn't they get a small tax exemption?
Errm, funny as the home page header for this article is I don't think it accurately conveys the message you were aiming for.Tom Goldman said:
A Jedi with Downs Syndrome needs no more or less hunting down than any other Jedi, goody-two-shoes scum that they are.
[cough]Atheist Sith for life![/cough]
OT: Funny as putting Jedi on the census is, I did it myself 10 years ago, it doesn't help at all. It puts us further down the Atheist league table (not serious reason) and also gives the government the wrong idea about who its people are (serious reason).
They can't just assume that everyone that puts Jedi is in fact Atheist because there are nutters out there who believe in it, magic and all, and other people who
what a load of generalising bullshit. its just some shitty group of people who are complete killjoys, it doesnt mean that atheists as a whole are all boring and mundane. the majority of englands population are atheist or CofE, which may as well be atheism because very few people take it seriously.
englands problem isnt religion fuelled. its political. there are too many politically correct arseholes who want to tell everyone else how to live their lives, and not enough people who just go with the flow of thigs and chill out a bit. i know because im in england and i see shit like this every day.
englands problem isnt religion fuelled. its political. there are too many politically correct arseholes who want to tell everyone else how to live their lives, and not enough people who just go with the flow of thigs and chill out a bit. i know because im in england and i see shit like this every day.
For the last time, the campaign targets non-religious people who marked "Jedi" for a laugh or to "make a statement." It literally has nothing to do and does not concern itself with the decisions or proclamations of the legitimately religious. The slogan on the campaign's website says, "If you're not religious, for God's sake say so," not, "If you are religious, please get bent." You have no basis for suggesting otherwise, and the only reason you do so is because of your unreasonable prejudice that all Atheists hate religion and would see it destroyed.The_root_of_all_evil said:
Maybe you're right about it being not my fault, so for the sake of helping me to understand, could you point me to the other posts in this thread that discuss or comment on your posts? Just the post numbers will do please.
By the way, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I was being regular aggressive. Actually, I toned it down quite a bit. I started out just calling you a stupid bastard, but then I realized that that would be rude and pointless. And indeed, they are trying to make religious affiliation not matter -- secularization of government and public service is part of their goal, in general. This particular campaign, however, is an admission that it does matter, and an attempt, then, to make it clear who believes what exactly. If this were a Christian group trying to accurately represent itself in the demographic data that helps determine how their country is run (regardless of how valuable you think that information is in general or what right the government has to have it), I would defend them as well. It's not proselytizing -- in no way is it that -- and it's a noble goal, even if it's only spawned out of a self-interested grab at lobbying power.
Lastly, http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/ . Took me about 30 seconds on Google to come across it; it helps with things like feeding the poor, empowering young people, working for world peace, and all that other stuff that charities are known for. Now, I'd be willing to bet, indeed, that there are far more religious organizations dedicated to charity (there are also plenty dedicated to hate and bigotry, I might add), but part of that is the fact that Atheists are still a minority, and they don't a have a social structure as organized as religious groups do. It's really easy to find a bunch of Christians when you need to ask them for help; they all collect in the same place at least once every week. Furthermore, Atheists are still charitable -- Bill Gates is an Atheist, and he runs the biggest damn charity in the world. However, they don't usually feel compelled to do it in the name of Atheism, which is the biggest reason there are many fewer Atheist charities. They do it because they love their fellow man.
And they did not put that sign on the bus "for the lulz" any more than the religious groups responsible for the signs, billboards, bus ads, TV ads, radio ads, etc. proclaiming their message (which, plenty of times, has just been that non-believers are going to Hell) did it for that reason. They did it because they wanted to encourage people to be open about their lack of belief in a society that doesn't necessarily accept that about them. It was about showing them that there are other people like them they can talk to, relate to, and who will support them if they need help. You know, like the nicer church advertisements.
It's alright, I replied to that guy too (similar squirrel). Pretty sure he's just a troll though.RelexCryo said:
ReiverCorrupter said:
Take a look at your post and see all the times you have been flat out rude to me. And when you decided not to be rude, you still printed what you would have said if you were being rude.summerof2010 said:
I've tried to make this concise, I've tried to make this loquacious. You simply won't see the entire point of this argument. (And has already been made by others)
[HEADING=2]"Jedi's" don't care about Atheism. They're not doing it to support/discredit either side of the religion. They're doing it to fuck the census.[/HEADING]
Why can't you see that? Therefore all the Atheists here are doing is trying to get support for their cause - from people who have already made up their mind.
BTW: FoundationBeyondBelief. See what I mean? Can't help to have a pop.
Ok, here's the thing. Christians need/want/require churches. Muslims need/want/require Mosques.
Atheists...are only united in their belief that God doesn't exist. And it is a belief because it's not provable. Their "Theoreum", if you want to bandy words around.
So...the only uniting factor of Atheists, which is what the census uses to distribute money is...nothing.
The "Jedi", on the other hand, believe that Star Wars is a pretty good film, and there should be money put towards saving it.
The "Browncoats" believe that Nathan Fillon should be give back Firefly.
Atheists have no common belief - and no belief at all if you believe the R&P forums.
What makes an Atheist different to any other person? Is it just that he states that God doesn't exist? Then what "need" has he that is not fulfilled for all others?
I think it's more of the thread's title. "UK Atheists hope to Eliminate Jedi Population". When people are already incensed or worked up about something, they tend to just see correlations to bolster their anger.Seanchaidh said:
But the truth of the matter is, between the Religious and Non, there's always a need for bravado. "you're so stupid, how can you believe X". Why can't we just shrug and leave each other alone? I almost guarantee that most of the people (Non-Religious and Pro) would be laughing together if this was about Ethnic Background and people put Drell from the Mass Effect series.
1. a theorem is something that has been proven. a hypothesis is something that has not.The_root_of_all_evil said:
2. the uniting factor of atheists is that they dont believe a god exists.
3. the more atheists there are, the less theists there are, the less money needed to be wasted on clearly invented, arbitrary balderash.
4. what makes an atheist different to "any other person"? you mean to theists? that they dont believe in god where "any other person" does.
5. the need... or lack of need for public money to be wasted on humouring his fairy tales.