UK Atheists Hope to Eliminate Jedi Population

[Conor147]

Seriously, their not saying that no one should believe in Jediism. Their saying that LYING on a census form gives the government inaccurate information that they base decisions off of. Why are so many people not understanding that?!

Because knee-jerk reactions against "uptight atheists" are in fashion.

Indeed, how dare a group of people who generally like empiricism put forth the notion that accurate information is a good thing. Humorless assholes, obviously...

I think it's more of the thread's title. "UK Atheists hope to Eliminate Jedi Population". When people are already incensed or worked up about something, they tend to just see correlations to bolster their anger.

But the truth of the matter is, between the Religious and Non, there's always a need for bravado. "you're so stupid, how can you believe X". Why can't we just shrug and leave each other alone? I almost guarantee that most of the people (Non-Religious and Pro) would be laughing together if this was about Ethnic Background and people put Drell from the Mass Effect series.

i just laughed. and i think thats an awesome idea.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

5. the need... or lack of need for public money to be wasted on humouring his fairy tales.

Ping! Point proven. Thanks for that.

 

[Conor147]

5. the need... or lack of need for public money to be wasted on humouring his fairy tales.

Ping! Point proven. Thanks for that.

your point would be valid if there was a pre-designated pot that was divided among the demographics. thats not how it works.

more atheists = less net money wasted.

more theists = more net money wasted.


An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished - Justin Brown

 

[Mad1Cow]

Either that or if they're so adamant in the belief that Jedi=A joke of atheism, can't they just assume that when everyone puts down Jedi it goes to a vote of atheism? Seems more logical to me instead of pissing everyone else off.

well then any religion that has minor support should be considered a joke of atheism and should be put as atheism.

I mean i still think scientology is the biggest joke by an atheist ever, do we mark that as atheist.

The Fact is there are people who legitimatly put jedi down as there religion, your saying that we should discount there true belief

Well no I'm not saying we should discount there true belief but what I understand is the census is a way of judging whether an area is able to deal with the religious beliefs of an area, so if an area had loads of muslims but no mosque, they should but a mosque in that area, or take procedures to make them happier. The point is what would a Jedi want? Probably the same thing as an athiest (disregarding the want for more comic stores). However I don't know anything about the actual beliefs of Jedi, I haven't looked into it, so I don't know if there is a massive group want for a place of worship or something.

I still stick with being Agnostic, show me hard based evidence and I may swing to your belief but until then I'll wait until I die to find out the true answer...

 

[CrimsonBlack]

Jedi? Why would I want to be a Jedi? If I'm gonna put something from a good sci-fi thing I'm at least gonna be british about it!

*ticks Time Lord instead*

WIN!

+1 Internets to you sir or ma'am.

More ranting

Take a look at your post and see all the times you have been flat out rude to me. And when you decided not to be rude, you still printed what you would have said if you were being rude.

I've tried to make this concise, I've tried to make this loquacious. You simply won't see the entire point of this argument. (And has already been made by others)

[HEADING=2]"Jedi's" don't care about Atheism. They're not doing it to support/discredit either side of the religion. They're doing it to fuck the census.[/HEADING]

Why can't you see that? Therefore all the Atheists here are doing is trying to get support for their cause - from people who have already made up their mind.

BTW: FoundationBeyondBelief. See what I mean? Can't help to have a pop.

They did it because they wanted to encourage people to be open about their lack of belief in a society that doesn't necessarily accept that about them.

Ok, here's the thing. Christians need/want/require churches. Muslims need/want/require Mosques.

Atheists...are only united in their belief that God doesn't exist. And it is a belief because it's not provable. Their "Theoreum", if you want to bandy words around.

So...the only uniting factor of Atheists, which is what the census uses to distribute money is...nothing.

The "Jedi", on the other hand, believe that Star Wars is a pretty good film, and there should be money put towards saving it.

The "Browncoats" believe that Nathan Fillon should be give back Firefly.

Atheists have no common belief - and no belief at all if you believe the R&P forums.

What makes an Atheist different to any other person? Is it just that he states that God doesn't exist? Then what "need" has he that is not fulfilled for all others?

You'll find that Atheists - at least the more vocal and/or militant about it - are united not only in disbelief, but also in the belief that religion, as a whole, is not beneficial to society. Religions actively foster unfairness, bigotry and homophobia, and yet society tolerates them and allows them to use state schools to teach their insidious BS to the next generation. Governments give religious charities tax breaks, build faith schools, and in London especially it encourages segregation. Plenty of better minds than mine have already put the case for the evils of religion (including "moderate" religion, which, as Sam Harris points out in "The End of Faith", means that person isn't religious at all really).

An atheist doesn't "need" anything - he derives his morals from evolution (see Marc Hauser's "Moral Minds"), from reading and education, but not from a book about an imaginary friend. What I think you are confusing "atheist" with is perhaps "secularist" or "humanist" - simply put, someone who believes that church and state should be as separate as separate can get.

Re "God isn't provable": We all live our lives as though many things' existence isn't provable. Fairies. Unicorns. Tooth Fairies. Santa Claus. Bertrand Russell's famous teapot orbiting Mars. A Christian is an atheist to Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, Wodin, Ibis, Ra, etc etc. If asked why, they'd probably say "well it's laughable to believe in them, nobody's proved they exist!" Well, atheists believe it's laughable to believe in the Abrahamic God (or any other unprovable supernatural being). See Flying Spaghetti Monster. You may or may not be aware of strong and weak atheism, in that the former is agnosticism verging on atheism, and the latter is where you live your life as though there is no supernatural being.

Atheists believe based on evidence (the antithesis to faith - see 2 Corinthians 4:18), and in that matter if the Abrahamic God were to prove his existence beyond a doubt tomorrow, atheists would change their minds; it is not dogmatic. Many religions don't allow you to change your mind - the sentence for apostasy from Islam is death, for example. THAT is why atheists fight religion so vehemently, amongst other things. THAT is why it's so important to tick "no religion" - and as someone quite rightly said, the government doesn't care if you, Joe Bloggs, is a Jedi or not. It uses the data to distribute money, assess constituency borders, adjust immigration, and a whole other useful ways. Screwing it up (FOR LULZ!) marks you out as immature, quite frankly.

 

[Conor147]

Either that or if they're so adamant in the belief that Jedi=A joke of atheism, can't they just assume that when everyone puts down Jedi it goes to a vote of atheism? Seems more logical to me instead of pissing everyone else off.

well then any religion that has minor support should be considered a joke of atheism and should be put as atheism.

I mean i still think scientology is the biggest joke by an atheist ever, do we mark that as atheist.

The Fact is there are people who legitimatly put jedi down as there religion, your saying that we should discount there true belief

Well no I'm not saying we should discount there true belief but what I understand is the census is a way of judging whether an area is able to deal with the religious beliefs of an area, so if an area had loads of muslims but no mosque, they should but a mosque in that area, or take procedures to make them happier. The point is what would a Jedi want? Probably the same thing as an athiest (disregarding the want for more comic stores). However I don't know anything about the actual beliefs of Jedi, I haven't looked into it, so I don't know if there is a massive group want for a place of worship or something.

I still stick with being Agnostic, show me hard based evidence and I may swing to your belief but until then I'll wait until I die to find out the true answer...

if a census asks you if you believe in god and you answer "hurrrr im agostic", you simply have not answered the question.

TIP: google agnostic.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

more theists = more net money wasted.

but also in the belief that religion, as a whole, is not beneficial to society. Religions actively foster unfairness, bigotry and homophobia, and yet society tolerates them and allows them to use state schools to teach their insidious BS to the next generation.

Just to re-introduce the prejudice that Summer said didn't exist.

An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished - Justin Brown

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek.

Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman.

 

[Conor147]

You'll find that Atheists - at least the more vocal and/or militant about it - are united not only in disbelief, but also in the belief that religion, as a whole, is not beneficial to society. Religions actively foster unfairness, bigotry and homophobia, and yet society tolerates them and allows them to use state schools to teach their insidious BS to the next generation. Governments give religious charities tax breaks, build faith schools, and in London especially it encourages segregation. Plenty of better minds than mine have already put the case for the evils of religion (including "moderate" religion, which, as Sam Harris points out in "The End of Faith", means that person isn't religious at all really).

An atheist doesn't "need" anything - he derives his morals from evolution, from reading and education, but not from a book about an imaginary friend. What I think you are confusing "atheist" with is perhaps "secularist" or "humanist" - simply put, someone who believes that church and state should be as separate as separate can get.

Re "God isn't provable": We all live our lives as though many things' existence isn't provable. Fairies. Unicorns. Tooth Fairies. Santa Claus. Bertrand Russell's famous teapot orbiting Mars. A Christian is an atheist to Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, Wodin, Ibis, Ra, etc etc. If asked why, they'd probably say "well it's laughable to believe in them, nobody's proved they exist!" Well, atheists believe it's laughable to believe in the Abrahamic God (or any other unprovable supernatural being). See Flying Spaghetti Monster. You may or may not be aware of strong and weak atheism, in that the former is agnosticism verging on atheism, and the latter is where you live your life as though there is no supernatural being.

Atheists believe based on evidence (the antithesis to faith - see 2 Corinthians 4:18), and in that matter if the Abrahamic God were to prove his existence beyond a doubt tomorrow, atheists would change their minds; it is not dogmatic. Many religions don't allow you to change your mind - the sentence for apostasy from Islam is death, for example. THAT is why atheists fight religion so vehemently, amongst other things. THAT is why it's so important to tick "no religion" - and as someone quite rightly said, the government doesn't care if you, Joe Bloggs, is a Jedi or not. It uses the data to distribute money, assess constituency borders, adjust immigration, and a whole other useful ways. Screwing it up (FOR LULZ!) marks you out as immature, quite frankly.

that would have been one hell of a first post. ditto everything.

 

[Conor147]

more theists = more net money wasted.

Just to re-introduce the prejudice that Summer said didn't exist.

An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished - Justin Brown

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek.

Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman.

an atheist cannot find god for the same reason a theist cannot find god. god is invisible and hides in those places where we have not yet looked. he used to live on clouds, right now he lives outside space and time, and when we go there, he will pack up and move as he always does.

if theists can find god through faith then pretty soon i can expect the flying spaghetti monster.

"I looked and looked but I didn't see God." - Yuri Gagarin

 

[Mako SOLDIER]

Well, I left the religion field on the census form blank since it's optional and I'm not really any particular religion but treat certain beliefs as interesting philosophies with useful messages for life providing they don't contradict any known scientific fact. However, I might go ahead and put Jedi now, just to spite these people. Only one person has any right to tell me what I should write on the census in response to a personal question that is ultimately irrelevant, and that's me. If the government don't want to put in the manpower to sort through the answers that they see as nonsense then they should just remove the question from the census (I say 'that they see as nonsense' because there is an actual Jedi religion that acknowledges the force as an abstract concept and is otherwise pretty much an amalgamation of various spiritual practices. Some people may put Jedi on the census as a joke, but others might be sincere about it. If the government is going to ask that question then who the hell are they to say that it isn't valid). So, anyone who supports this group can go and make violent love to themselves while I choose what to write on MY census form under MY name.

 

[Mad1Cow]

Either that or if they're so adamant in the belief that Jedi=A joke of atheism, can't they just assume that when everyone puts down Jedi it goes to a vote of atheism? Seems more logical to me instead of pissing everyone else off.

well then any religion that has minor support should be considered a joke of atheism and should be put as atheism.

I mean i still think scientology is the biggest joke by an atheist ever, do we mark that as atheist.

The Fact is there are people who legitimatly put jedi down as there religion, your saying that we should discount there true belief

Well no I'm not saying we should discount there true belief but what I understand is the census is a way of judging whether an area is able to deal with the religious beliefs of an area, so if an area had loads of muslims but no mosque, they should but a mosque in that area, or take procedures to make them happier. The point is what would a Jedi want? Probably the same thing as an athiest (disregarding the want for more comic stores). However I don't know anything about the actual beliefs of Jedi, I haven't looked into it, so I don't know if there is a massive group want for a place of worship or something.

I still stick with being Agnostic, show me hard based evidence and I may swing to your belief but until then I'll wait until I die to find out the true answer...

if a census asks you if you believe in god and you answer "hurrrr im agostic", you simply have not answered the question.

TIP: google agnostic.

Yes I know what agnostic MEANS!!! I am firm in the status of there could be a god, but I dunno. I don't want to be labelled as a "THERE IS NO GOD" person so I am not atheist, but I'm not a practicing religious person and I take to the whole, "we should focus more on this life then any life after". To my understanding an athiest believes there is no life after death. I don't believe that, yet I can't nail down one that I truly believe in. Alright reincarnation seems the most logical to me but even then I'm not fully tied down to it. I take teachings from various religions to heart and I respect everyone elses beliefs, I even have a friend who believes that when he dies he's going to the world of Pokemon and HECK I respect him for that because at least he can believe in something firmly. Agnostic does define my beliefs though because, heck there could be a god, but there might not be, there's no evidence to either one claim so I'm not gonna choose either one.

Now before we get all flame war on my ass, this is opinion based, not backed up, if you want I'll skip to the part where we just say I'm a retard if that makes everyone happy.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

edited. pressed the wrong button twice and can't seem to delete.

 

[Gralian]

It's really funny all the people telling the government (that thing which you complain never listens to your views) to stop trying to find out about your views. Yeah, i'd hate to have my governmnet listening to me. The horror.

The census data affects policies that will hurt or help you. You want your kids going to the local pedo-church school because it got the most grant money, be my guest.

Idiots.

This. A thousand times this.

People are never happy. They whine when a government screws them over without consulting them, they whine when government spending isn't properly allocated, they whine when policies are put forward that they aren't happy with. Yet when the government asks its people for a census that will help them to better govern the country, they come under fire. It's sickening. Part of the problem is probably down to people not actually realising what a government does, they just don't give a shit and want a punching bag to hit upon.

There's nothing wrong with the atheist's plea to ask those selecting Jedi "for the lulz" to just tick atheist instead if they genuinely don't believe in a religion. Yeah, those "Jedi" anarchists may be ticking Jedi to screw the census, but you can still ask nicely and appeal to someone to tick what should be the correct box in order to create a more accurate census. I don't think atheists are looking to "eliminate the Jedi population". That's just gross hyperbole and it's a disingenuous accusation.

 

[Conor147]

Yes I know what agnostic MEANS!!! I am firm in the status of there could be a god, but I dunno. I don't want to be labelled as a "THERE IS NO GOD" person so I am not atheist, but I'm not a practicing religious person and I take to the whole, "we should focus more on this life then any life after". To my understanding an athiest believes there is no life after death. I don't believe that, yet I can't nail down one that I truly believe in. Alright reincarnation seems the most logical to me but even then I'm not fully tied down to it. I take teachings from various religions to heart and I respect everyone elses beliefs, I even have a friend who believes that when he dies he's going to the world of Pokemon and HECK I respect him for that because at least he can believe in something firmly. Agnostic does define my beliefs though because, heck there could be a god, but there might not be, there's no evidence to either one claim so I'm not gonna choose either one.

Now before we get all flame war on my ass, this is opinion based, not backed up, if you want I'll skip to the part where we just say I'm a retard if that makes everyone happy.

you dont seem to know what an atheist is. an atheist is a person who doesnt believe in god.

that means you think the chance of a god existing is less than the chance of a god not existing.

if you are between 0 and 50 percent sure there is a god, you are an agnostic atheist.

if you are between 50 and 100 percent sure there is a god, you are an agnostic theist.

if you are 100 percent sure there IS a god, you are a gnostic theist.

if you are 100 percent sure there is NO GOD, you are a gnostic atheist.


if you are exactly 50% sure there is/isnt a god. then youre an indecisive coward.

TIP: google atheist.

 

[Rubymuto]

I'm very tempted to put FOR THE HORDE! but Jedi are noble religion to follow.

 

[drunken_munki]

more theists = more net money wasted.

Just to re-introduce the prejudice that Summer said didn't exist.

An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished - Justin Brown

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek.

Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman.

an atheist cannot find god for the same reason a theist cannot find god. god is invisible and hides in those places where we have not yet looked. he used to live on clouds, right now he lives outside space and time, and when we go there, he will pack up and move as he always does.

if theists can find god through faith then pretty soon i can expect the flying spaghetti monster.

"I looked and looked but I didn't see God." - Yuri Gagarin

Exactly. An atheist is such because no one has found god, regardless of where anyone has looked so far.

Also, on topic. Fuck em all. Who cares about religion? Lets solve some real problems in the world and ditch this crap already.

 

[CrimsonBlack]

Yes I know what agnostic MEANS!!! I am firm in the status of there could be a god, but I dunno. I don't want to be labelled as a "THERE IS NO GOD" person so I am not atheist, but I'm not a practicing religious person and I take to the whole, "we should focus more on this life then any life after". To my understanding an athiest believes there is no life after death. I don't believe that, yet I can't nail down one that I truly believe in. Alright reincarnation seems the most logical to me but even then I'm not fully tied down to it. I take teachings from various religions to heart and I respect everyone elses beliefs, I even have a friend who believes that when he dies he's going to the world of Pokemon and HECK I respect him for that because at least he can believe in something firmly. Agnostic does define my beliefs though because, heck there could be a god, but there might not be, there's no evidence to either one claim so I'm not gonna choose either one.

Now before we get all flame war on my ass, this is opinion based, not backed up, if you want I'll skip to the part where we just say I'm a retard if that makes everyone happy.

you dont seem to know what an atheist is. an atheist is a person who doesnt believe in god.

that means you think the chance of a god existing is less than the chance of a god not existing.

if you are between 0 and 50 percent sure there is a god, you are an agnostic atheist.

if you are between 50 and 100 percent sure there is a god, you are an agnostic theist.

if you are 100 percent sure there IS a god, you are a gnostic theist.

if you are 100 percent sure there is NO GOD, you are a gnostic atheist.


if you are exactly 50% sure there is/isnt a god. then youre an indecisive coward.

TIP: google atheist.

Cheers for the compliment.

Would like to add that being agnostic, whilst perhaps pussyfooting around the issue, is a perfectly tenable position which many people hold. If you search your feelings (Luke), you'll find you probably don't sit at exactly the 50/50 mark, but will be inclined (even if ever so slightly) to being a theist or atheist.

Unfortunately (in my experience) being agnostic makes it more likely to be apathetic to issues like the religious box on the census. Live and let live is a nice enough thought but one day you might wake up with the Islamic Squad for Vice and Virtue (yes, they exist in Saudi Arabia for example) knocking at your door to beat you to a pulp for having sex outside marriage and you'll wonder why you didn't say something about it earlier.

 

[SilentHunter7]

The group running the "You're Not a Jedi" campaign claims that "Jedi" is not an acceptable religion and hopes that people will check "No Religion" in the census instead of saying that they follow the ways of the Force.

Yeah, well I can say Atheism is unacceptable, it doesn't make it true, or change the fact that people can believe whatever the hell they want. I don't even get it, why do they care what people put d-

"By ticking 'No Religion', you will ensure that the Government receives an unambiguous message about the number of non-religious people in the UK."

Oh, of course. Politics.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

You'll find that Atheists - at least the more vocal and/or militant about it - are united not only in disbelief, but also in the belief that religion, as a whole, is not beneficial to society. Religions actively foster unfairness, bigotry and homophobia, and yet society tolerates them and allows them to use state schools to teach their insidious BS to the next generation. Governments give religious charities tax breaks, build faith schools, and in London especially it encourages segregation. Plenty of better minds than mine have already put the case for the evils of religion (including "moderate" religion, which, as Sam Harris points out in "The End of Faith", means that person isn't religious at all really).

An atheist doesn't "need" anything - he derives his morals from evolution (see Marc Hauser's "Moral Minds"), from reading and education, but not from a book about an imaginary friend. What I think you are confusing "atheist" with is perhaps "secularist" or "humanist" - simply put, someone who believes that church and state should be as separate as separate can get.

Re "God isn't provable": We all live our lives as though many things' existence isn't provable. Fairies. Unicorns. Tooth Fairies. Santa Claus. Bertrand Russell's famous teapot orbiting Mars. A Christian is an atheist to Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, Wodin, Ibis, Ra, etc etc. If asked why, they'd probably say "well it's laughable to believe in them, nobody's proved they exist!" Well, atheists believe it's laughable to believe in the Abrahamic God (or any other unprovable supernatural being). See Flying Spaghetti Monster. You may or may not be aware of strong and weak atheism, in that the former is agnosticism verging on atheism, and the latter is where you live your life as though there is no supernatural being.

Atheists believe based on evidence (the antithesis to faith - see 2 Corinthians 4:18), and in that matter if the Abrahamic God were to prove his existence beyond a doubt tomorrow, atheists would change their minds; it is not dogmatic. Many religions don't allow you to change your mind - the sentence for apostasy from Islam is death, for example. THAT is why atheists fight religion so vehemently, amongst other things. THAT is why it's so important to tick "no religion" - and as someone quite rightly said, the government doesn't care if you, Joe Bloggs, is a Jedi or not. It uses the data to distribute money, assess constituency borders, adjust immigration, and a whole other useful ways. Screwing it up (FOR LULZ!) marks you out as immature, quite frankly.

What I've seen is that almost any movement can be used to unify people under the banners of hate just as equally as any other. A person in power of a belief system (and non-believing is a belief system) steps up, barks out his or her ideology under the guise of speaking the tenants of their beliefs, and if he or she is charismatic enough, the sheep go along skipping. Political bodies (tories, Republicans, etc) do it all the time. But that doesn't mean in and of itself being a Tory or being a Republican is wrong or breeds contempt; It simply means those who label themselves as such are just as accountable for their own actions, but choose to be led because they can not resist the lure of that particular Pied Piper.

To lump all with a vocal portion of any population is folly and does not promote understanding. Not every Atheist gets as vehement as those in this very thread. In fact, not every Atheist in this very thread got as vehement as others. Would it be wrong for me to say all Atheist vehemently oppose and commend religion? Absolutely. As I know a few Atheist who completely support religious people, as I know those same religious people support their views.

There are bad churches. Those who look at archaic text and sprout off at the mouth with guile and charm and just point out the evil. To borrow at an outdated Meme, they are doing it wrong. It's easy to believe that's what happens because it's plastered on the news or media or whatever. But like everything, you don't get it all at the first glance. In fact you might lose more because of that first glance, as if it's an unfavorable glance, one would tend to lump all experiences to be just like that then look over anything that differs.

In First World Societies, putting someone to death for their religious misgivings or slights is unspeakable and unthinkable. In third world, probably more common place. But there are people who are put to death for economic reasons that has nothing to do with religion, for moral standpoints and the like. Both are unspeakable. Both happen because of ignorance. Crushing religion will not crave enlightenment, because those who are atheist do commit horrors, but just not in the name of God.

Enlightenment, intelligence does not come in religious or atheist flavor. It's one type. If both sides gain that, there would be no problems.

 

[Conor147]

Cheers for the compliment.

Would like to add that being agnostic, whilst perhaps pussyfooting around the issue, is a perfectly tenable position which many people hold. If you search your feelings (Luke), you'll find you probably don't sit at exactly the 50/50 mark, but will be inclined (even if ever so slightly) to being a theist or atheist.

Unfortunately (in my experience) being agnostic makes it more likely to be apathetic to issues like the religious box on the census. Live and let live is a nice enough thought but one day you might wake up with the Islamic Squad for Vice and Virtue (yes, they exist in Saudi Arabia for example) knocking at your door to beat you to a pulp for having sex outside marriage and you'll wonder why you didn't say something about it earlier.

i think i agree.

would like to add that atheists and theists dont ever KNOW that there isnt a god, they only claim to not know. so when someone says they "know there is no god", they are only saying it like "i know there is no flying spaghetti monster". although it is unlikely, it is always a possibility.

most atheists know this and admit to being agnostic. even if an atheist is 99.99% sure, he is still agnostic.

if people KNEW there was/wasnt a god. they would be able to prove it to other people in the same way they proved it to themselves, and found themselves in the position of knowing. but seeing as no such evidence exists. everyone can only believe, not know.

if there was evidence either way, there would only be realists and loonies, no atheists and theists.

right now the only loonies are people that claim to know whether or not a god exists, the overwhelming monopoly of such lunacy is held by the theists.