Ukraine

Satinavian

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There seem to be some reports that the first Russian draftees are already in the fighting units in the Ukraine. And that there had been no training whatsoever. Alledgedly Russian soldiers complained about the newcomers.
 
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Chimpzy

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There seem to be some reports that the first Russian draftees are already in the fighting units in the Ukraine. And that there had been no training whatsoever. Alledgedly Russian soldiers complaint about the newcomers.
Why? Having to babysit untrained fodder lest they do something stupid and get themselves (and more importantly, yourself) killed is great for their motivation.

Jokes aside, sounds like it'd be a raw deal for all involved, conscript or career soldier.
 

Thaluikhain

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Why? Having to babysit untrained fodder lest they do something stupid and get themselves (and more importantly, yourself) killed is great for their motivation.

Jokes aside, sounds like it'd be a raw deal for all involved, conscript or career soldier.
Yeah, it's a terrible mistake, but a common one when things get desperate. You see it in both world war, for example. Also, in WW2, the US Army replacement program to throw REMFs into the infantry because the infantry was taking high casualties (and the REMFs get to decide who they send, so it's not their best) and straight into action. The USMC replacements were supposed to be sent to front line units that weren't currently on the front to give them time to fit in and learn the ropes, but that didn't happen and they were sent to the front and died before the veterans learnt their names (Eugene Sledge recounts how apparently not all replacement marines knew they had to pull the pins from grenades before throwing them).

Also, the US's Project 100,000 during the Vietnam War, conscript mentally handicapped people because nobody cares if they die, send them off to front line units with weapons they don't know how to use properly and hope for the best.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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Also, the US's Project 100,000 during the Vietnam War, conscript mentally handicapped people because nobody cares if they die, send them off to front line units with weapons they don't know how to use properly and hope for the best.
I've learned something new about my country and like alway it make me incredibly disappointed.
 

XsjadoBlaydette

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KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia confirmed on Thursday it will formally annex parts of Ukraine where occupied areas held Kremlin-orchestrated “referendums” on living under Moscow’s rule that the Ukrainian government and the West denounced as illegal and rigged.

Russian President Vladimir Putin will attend a ceremony on Friday in the Kremlin when four regions of Ukraine will be officially folded into Russia, spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

Peskov said the pro-Moscow administrators of the regions will sign treaties to join Russia during the ceremony at the Kremlin’s St. George’s Hall.

The official annexation was widely expected following the votes that wrapped up on Tuesday in the areas under Russian occupation in Ukraine and after Moscow claimed residents overwhelmingly supported for their areas to formally become part of Russia.

The United States and its Western allies have sharply condemned the votes as “sham” and vowed never to recognize their results. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock on Thursday joined other Western officials in denouncing the referendums.


“Under threats and sometimes even (at) gunpoint people are being taken out of their homes or workplaces to vote in glass ballot boxes,” she said at a conference in Berlin.

“This is the opposite of free and fair elections,” Baerbock said. “And this is the opposite of peace. It’s dictated peace. As long as this Russian diktat prevails in the occupied territories of Ukraine, no citizen is safe. No citizen is free.”

Armed troops had gone door-to-door with election officials to collect ballots in five days of voting. The suspiciously high margins in favor were characterized as a land grab by an increasingly cornered Russian leadership after embarrassing military losses in Ukraine.

Moscow-installed administrations in the four regions of southern and eastern Ukraine claimed Tuesday night that 93% of the ballots cast in the Zaporizhzhia region supported annexation, as did 87% in the Kherson region, 98% in the Luhansk region and 99% in Donetsk.

Ukraine too has dismissed the referendums as illegitimate, saying it has every right to retake the territories, a position that has won support from Washington.

The Kremlin has been unmoved by the criticism. After a counteroffensive by Ukraine this month dealt Moscow’s forces heavy battlefield setbacks, Russia said it would call up 300,000 reservists to join the fight. It also warned it could resort to nuclear weapons.

Also on Thursday, Ukrainian authorities said Russian shelling has killed at least eight civilians, including a child, and wounded scores of others. A 12-year-old girl has been pulled out of rubble after an attack on Dnipro, officials said.

“The rescuers have taken her from under the rubble, she was asleep when the Russian missile hit,” said local administrator Valentyn Reznichenko.


Reports of new shelling came as Russia appeared to continue to lose ground around a key northeastern city of Lyman while it struggles to press on with chaotic mobilization of troops and prevent the fighting-age men from leaving the country, according to a Washington-based think-tank and the British intelligence reports.

The Institute for the Study of War, citing Russian reports, said Ukrainian forces have taken more villages around Lyman, a city some 160 kilometers (100 miles) southeast of Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city. The report said Ukrainian forces may soon encircle Lyman entirely, in what would be a major blow to Moscow’s war effort.

“The collapse of the Lyman pocket will likely be highly consequential to the Russian grouping in northern Donetsk and western Luhansk oblasts and may allow Ukrainian troops to threaten Russian positions along the western Luhansk” region, the institute said.

The British military intelligence report claimed the number of Russian military-age men fleeing the country likely exceeds the number of forces Moscow used to initially invade Ukraine in February.

“The better off and well educated are over-represented amongst those attempting to leave Russia,” the British said. “When combined with those reservists who are being mobilized, the domestic economic impact of reduced availability of labor and the acceleration of ‘brain drain’ is likely to become increasingly significant.”

That partial mobilization is deeply unpopular in some areas, however, triggering protests, scattered violence, and Russians fleeing the country by the tens of thousands. Miles-long lines formed at some borders and Moscow also reportedly set up draft offices at borders to intercept some of those trying to leave.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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so Friday maybe the end of the world becasue Ukraine is in 3 of those areas. ukrainians aren't backing down because of this news so it's Russia's choice to press the nuke buttons.
 

Silvanus

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This severely limits what negotiations are possible.

It completely throws out the window any pretence that the war was aimed at protecting DPR & LPR. And the Russian government has been insisting that any annexed regions will be fully "defended" by Russia, to the same extent as actual Russian territory would be. Essentially obligating themselves to go all-in, just as the invasion is faltering.

It looks like it's laying the groundwork for full mobilisation, passing off invasion as self-defence.
 

Dalisclock

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Blame on pipeline is going to be hard to attribute cause no one really benefit from that and the pipeline were probably not going to be used anymore.

Russia are the usual suspect, but if they don't want to send gas they can just cut it. Maybe they're trying to get out of legal problem, like they have contract to deliver X amount of gas but not if the pipeline is damaged? But then again so much of what Russia as done makes very little sense. Maybe practicing on a now useless pipeline with the aim of doing it on other pipeline into EU?

US/EU, why bother? No one is going to be willing to rely on Russia for gas for a very long time and EU is already ready to buy all the gas available from other supplier and will not buy Russia longterm.

Ukraine, could they actually pull it off? They have essentially no navy and they probably need every fighting man on the front line, especially any team that would be experience enough to pull something like this.

Other gas supplier (Quatar or something), super fucking risky move for very little gain.

China, I literally can't think of any reason they would do that.

Environmental terrorist, would be very dumb cause now its leaky like crazy and that's terrible for the environment (methane is way worse than CO2), plus I don't see them having the expertise necessary.
I just imagined Russia burning down the pipeline for the insurance money and then realizing the policy is for millions of rubles of AUTO insurance.

In fact, this is now my head cannon until an actual culprit is found.
 
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Thaluikhain

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They're attempting to Annex regions that they do not have full control over, How does that work?
Eh, just need to declare that they do to legitimise things. Can count this as a win, Geneva protocols no longer apply to locals opposing them (officially, that is, unofficially they generally wouldn't have beforehand anyway), they get to make scary noises at people supporting their enemies there.

Whether this turns into their Vietnam or their German occupied France remains to be seen.
 

Silvanus

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They're attempting to Annex regions that they do not have full control over, How does that work?
It's preparing a justification.

Declare those 4 areas as Russian territory --> then defending "Russian territory" can be used to justify further mobilisation, and they can cast Ukrainian defenders as the aggressor in domestic propaganda to drum up support. Also lends credibility to their nuclear threats, in the effort to intimidate Western nations into withdrawing support from Ukraine.

However, it also severely limits their own negotiation options. Makes it harder than ever for Russia to back down, because withdrawing from those 4 areas now becomes abandoning "Russian territory".
 

Dalisclock

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Eh, just need to declare that they do to legitimise things. Can count this as a win, Geneva protocols no longer apply to locals opposing them (officially, that is, unofficially they generally wouldn't have beforehand anyway), they get to make scary noises at people supporting their enemies there.

Whether this turns into their Vietnam or their German occupied France remains to be seen.
It already seems to be their Afghanistan.

Well, 2nd Afghanistan.
 
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Silvanus

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There we go then: Putin will sign the decree today stating that Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are Russian territory. The Russian government states that areas they don't control will "de jure" be Russian territory, though this is of course a unilateral statement and has no standing in international law.

On the same day, they shelled a civilian refugee corridor in Zaporizhzhia, killing 23 non-combatants. There's direct footage of the aftermath available online (TW ofc).

What the hell are European countries to do if Russia begins full mobilisation to seize those areas? The Foreign Ministry has repeatedly stated they will consider any attack on Russian forces in those areas of Ukraine to be an attack on Russian territory.
 

Thaluikhain

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What the hell are European countries to do if Russia begins full mobilisation to seize those areas? The Foreign Ministry has repeatedly stated they will consider any attack on Russian forces in those areas of Ukraine to be an attack on Russian territory.
Well, attacking Russian forces outside of "Russian territory" wasn't really going to happen anyway. I'd imagine people will continue giving stuff to Ukraine and letting them do the fighting to avoid annoying Russia too much, and waiting to see if Russia can hold what's it's taken in any meaningful way.
 
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Silvanus

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Ukraine has formally submitted an application for NATO membership.

This would not have happened without the Russian invasions of 2014 and 2022 proving beyond doubt that Ukraine cannot trust in Russian assurances for its security. Those who despise and fear NATO expansion should be fuckling livid at Russia for threatening three non-NATO members and causing them to seek collective security.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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okay news on the speech but a highlight from it

Putin denounces Western society as ‘satanic’
Putin has attacked Western society, claiming it is “satanic” and has rejected “moral norms”.
Addressing the annexation ceremony in Moscow, Russia’s president said the West had turned away from “traditional” and “religious” values.
He also asked assembled dignitaries if they wanted “children to be offered sex-change operations”, a practice he implied was widespread in Western states.
In his two decades in power, Putin has routinely promoted what he says are “traditional values” and suppressed LGBTQ rights.
Um yes Putin, what does this have to do with anything? Also this talk is kind of funny coming from a state that was once the Soviet Union.
 
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XsjadoBlaydette

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Putin is just pandering to the modern conspiracy qanon right-wing religious reactionary crowds we have now, there's a reason they've all been defending his actions, or at best dismissing entirely since the beginning.
 
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