I think the point of martyring oneself is that a person accepts (the risk of) death, not that they actively commit suicide. I don't think there's any serious doubt that it was the Russian state that killed him, directly or indirectly.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
- Start date
"You can't express criticism of political opponents being murdered unless you hold all the same positions as them".
Although, Navalny supported the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, the ending of sponsorship of insurgencies, and a return to the recognised 1991 borders. So that's a hell of a lot better than the current approach.
Numerous videos of masked men clearing flowers and other tributes from makeshift memorials to Navalny, as Russian police watch. According to OVD-Info, over 350 people have been detained for protesting or attending memorials.
I don't think the life of Navalny is worth any more than the life of, say, Gonzalo Lira.
All? I hadn't even mentioned his attitude toward Muslims. Are you a fan of any other Russian white nationalists or just that one? It is fascinating how easy it is to get western liberals to lionize an unrepentant racist.
Nope, but you apparently believed that concern about somebody getting murdered by the state in a slave camp can only be explained by support for their political positions. If you want to pick and choose which positions, that's fine, go ahead-- doesn't make the transactional, unprincipled nature of your stance any better.
Opposing someone's extrajudicial murder by the state is "lionisation", OK. In short, "he was no saint". Where have I heard that before?
It is fascinating, though, how easy it is to get western supposed 'leftists' to lionise christofascists, neo-Nazi paramilitaries, etc. And unlike me with Navalny, you actually have been offering full-throated support for their endeavours.
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The Diplomatic Path to a Secure Ukraine
Ukraine’s best hope lies in a negotiated settlement that protects its security, minimizes the risks of renewed attacks or escalation, and promotes broader stability in Europe and the world.
quincyinst.org
Interesting paper from the perspective of promoting US strategic interests... if I truly wanted to weaken America above everything else, I might have to reverse my position and call for increasing US commitments in Ukraine! But I prefer constructive steps toward a diplomatic resolution even so because, among other things, I rather like not risking the entire planet just to increase the number of dead on both sides. Khorne worship should be confined to fantasy, it's not actually acceptable in any other context.
Disagreeing with your facile analysis of the situation is not 'full-throated support' for anyone's endeavors, and neither is skepticism toward the US-promoted narrative. (But that link is about Angola! Ok, do you honestly believe they stopped doing shit like this? That it hasn't gotten even worse?) I oppose your understanding of the conflict because your understanding is deliberately cultivated to promote sacrificing Ukraine to damage Russia. I don't think there is much of anything to celebrate in what is going on here; the possibility of self-determination for the Donbass seems grim either way. I would much rather the ruling class of the US and friends fall apart from a collapse of their power base--i.e. their ability to direct the labor of the mass of people in the imperial core as well as the resources of the periphery-- than be challenged from the outside (especially by a capitalist like Putin, even if he is responsible for much of the corpse of the Soviet Union), but the 'western left' such as it is, seems intent on spending its energies arguing over whether to support or condemn the ruling global empire in its efforts to subordinate the remaining recalcitrant corners of the Earth. And to do so pretending that 'democracy' is at stake or whatever other nonsense. Can't even draw a line at genocide, but I digress.
Nope, but what you've done absolutely is. You want to accuse me of "lionising" someone when I did nothing more than point out the circumstances of their murder. That's your bar-- And yet with a straight face you'll claim that what you've been doing doesn't constitute support!
Yes, how dare the subject of invasion defend itself against the invading force. Defending oneself is "sacrifice", freedom is slavery, blah-de-blah warped revisionism.
It's at stake for the citizens of the Donbas, who voted strongly for independence from Russia-- who now face a military occupier denying them that. It's at stake for anyone under Russian occupation.
And yes, I draw the line well before genocide. You don't, of course, which is why you're flag-waving for the occupying military force mass-deporting children to another country, breaching the genocide act. And for the victim of it to give up trying to prevent it from happening.
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Not to go all neo colonial on your ass but things like this makes one doubt whether certain members of the global south can be trusted in a ''multi polar world''
Its well known that Russia's strive for a multi polar world is illegitimate. They only want it so they can reintroduce the concept of territorial expansion through warfare and to subjugate eastern Europe. They want to overthrow the current world order not because they have a genuine improvement but because they think the current system is an obstacle to their objectively illegitimate ambitions. This is known by just about everyone. So to see South Africa come celebrate Russia's conduct cast doubts on their intentions. Do they too just want a ''multi polar world'' because they aim to slaughter their neighbors for the glory of empire?
Its well known that Russia's strive for a multi polar world is illegitimate. They only want it so they can reintroduce the concept of territorial expansion through warfare and to subjugate eastern Europe. They want to overthrow the current world order not because they have a genuine improvement but because they think the current system is an obstacle to their objectively illegitimate ambitions. This is known by just about everyone. So to see South Africa come celebrate Russia's conduct cast doubts on their intentions. Do they too just want a ''multi polar world'' because they aim to slaughter their neighbors for the glory of empire?
It's just a jolly. An excuse to use some of the government travel budget to do a bit of tourism (and have to listen to some dull speeches).
Well, no less than most of the 'global North' can be trusted in a unipolar world.
Edit: the issue is that those jostling for a pole position in a multipolar world... are some of the most brutal authoritarians and imperialists around. Their interest in 'multipolarity' is a smokescreen for the abuses and exploitation they visit on their own people and their neighbouring countries as their power grows.
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"The Global North", "The West", "The Global South" ... all nonsense. Way too broad strokes in nearly every single discussion. I have never seen a single argument using one of these that actually matched the whole group (even excluding those where membership is a topic of debate in the first place). We should abandon them all.
Weirdly, it's still orientalism if you use a different compass direction.
We all know the real test is whether Hollywood would give you the Mexico filter or not.
Geopolitical distance cuts both ways.
Europeans, even Western Europeans, generally have some familiarity with the Russian state and what it's actually like, if nothing else because of the visibility of sizable populations of people who have moved away from Russia but also because of the history of assassinations and sabotage carried out by the FSB in Europe. South Africans are both unlikely to have that context, have significant societal trauma left over from apartheid (which was itself a direct result of European colonialism) and are still experiencing significant material exploitation under the current global economic order. There's a reason why the richest man in the world is a white South African while the average south African earns 50 times less than the average American.
In short, I think South Africa's leaders and their supporters have correctly interpreted that the current geopolitical order is not working for them, have aligned interests with those who seek to create a new one and are sufficiently distant from the reality of the situation to be able to overlook what a shitty excuse for a state Russia actually is or what the natural conclusion of its policies would mean for the people of neighboring countries. The further away something is and the less personal connection you actually have to the people affected, the easier it becomes to just not think about it.
See also that Canadian family who moved to Russia to get away from the gays, were shocked when their assets were immediately frozen on arrival and who are now clearly being forced to make propaganda. On one hand, the fuck did they think was going to happen? On the other, how would they have known?
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Hollywood is not particularly good at depictions of continental Europe either. Nor it is seen as a cultural lens for a "West", it is perceived as an American lens at best. Hollywood does Hollywood.
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Good riddance to Navalny, hope this crushes any idea of Ukraine ever being free from Russia. The strong will always trample over the weak
I always find that argument pretty laughable since its always made by people who have the viewpoint that Ukraine should be sacrificed to appease Russia and damage America's power.
And sacrifice is the key word since we know Russia's plans for Ukraine aren't benign. If Ukraine is forced to territoriality mutilate itself and deprive themselves of NATO protection then we know the only fate left for them is that of a Russian puppet state. And since Russia has made it clear in both word and deed that they aim to butcher the population of Ukrainian territory they occupy we know that we forfeit the lives of many people living in those area, and force the rest to live under a criminal regime that seeks to rob and terrorize them if we force Ukraine to give those regions to Russia.
Even in the best case scenario the prospect of Ukraine are grim if they are forced into the Russian sphere of influence. Pretty much no one wants to live in the Russian world. That's why the Russian army has to keep intervening against the populations of those countries. What does the Russian world even offer anyone? Its a dead end culturally, economically and politically.
But according to some people, Ukrainians should want to die, rather than live "under the shadow of US hegemony".
Russia will bring Ukraine in kicking and screaming no matter how much hopium the Americans believe in. See what happened the Uighurs, the Hong Kong population.
They Will be brought to heel, their identity extinguished and the dissidents who continue to defy them murdered like the dog Navalny was
Is there a sense of irony or aggressive satire or something involved somewhere in this post?
Alexei Navalny's mother has released a video saying she's being blackmailed to agree to a secret burial. She's been shown the body but authorities refuse to allow it to be taken for funeral.
www.theguardian.com
Navalny’s mother shown body and ‘blackmailed by authorities’ over funeral
Lyudmila Navalnaya says she was told to agree to secret burial as Kremlin appears to fear funeral turning into political action
www.theguardian.com