Ukraine

Hades

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Oh, there are arguments to be made against that. Sure, the USSR made a non-aggression pact, but then one reason the Nazis were popular is that they were expected to destroy the communists (and not without reason for that expectation). If things had gone differently, we could be saying that the West was complicit in the Germans declaring war on the Soviets to start WW3.
I'm not sure that really works as a defense. The Russian making a pact with Germany despite its fanatic anti communism being common knowledge makes them even more foolish. Working hard to empower a dangerous enemy just for a short sighted land grab in Poland. Russians often try to skirt around it by saying Stalin was merely trying to buy time but him wasting resources in trying to invade Finland and then massacring the Russian officer corpse always made that claim dubius.

and isn't arrogant like many democratic party diplomat
What the heck are you talking about?

and I don't think peace in Europe is a goal of the US
Given how fanatically anti Europe Trump and Vance both are peace in Europe definitely isn't their goal. Those pieces of filth likely seek to directly empower Russia at our expense. And at the expense of the US too.
 

Thaluikhain

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I'm not sure that really works as a defense. The Russian making a pact with Germany despite its fanatic anti communism being common knowledge makes them even more foolish. Working hard to empower a dangerous enemy just for a short sighted land grab in Poland. Russians often try to skirt around it by saying Stalin was merely trying to buy time but him wasting resources in trying to invade Finland and then massacring the Russian officer corpse always made that claim dubius.
I don't see buying time as being mutually exclusive with purging the military of any potential threats (which included competent officers). Er, not to defend the latter, that's terrible for obvious reasons, but I think unrelated with dealing with Germany or trying for a land grab.
 

Gergar12

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I'm not sure that really works as a defense. The Russian making a pact with Germany despite its fanatic anti communism being common knowledge makes them even more foolish. Working hard to empower a dangerous enemy just for a short sighted land grab in Poland. Russians often try to skirt around it by saying Stalin was merely trying to buy time but him wasting resources in trying to invade Finland and then massacring the Russian officer corpse always made that claim dubius.



What the heck are you talking about?


Given how fanatically anti Europe Trump and Vance both are peace in Europe definitely isn't their goal. Those pieces of filth likely seek to directly empower Russia at our expense. And at the expense of the US too.
I distinctly remember during the first Iran deal, when I was a teenager, there was a German diplomat who told the Iranian foreign minister Zarif that 'everyone heard you' and John Kerry yelling at each other, and implied that it was his fault. Granted, he is German, but John Kerry and the US team should have reined him in. I also remember Obama giving Putin the cold shoulder after he seized Crimea.

That's generally poor form; people yell at people all the time, and if the Iranian foreign minister doesn't advocate for his country's self-interest, he gets sacked. Also, you sanction countries and apply strict penalties, but you don't act like you're better than them for having more power than them. And I am not an Iran or Russia fan by any means. If I were the US president after Ukraine got invaded, and had a means to swat down Russian MIRV missiles, I would have told the Japanese PM if you want you could get the Kuril Islands and we will help you, in exchange, you have to sign a secret pact that you would have to intervene in Taiwan if need be and deploy ground troops.
 

Hades

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. I also remember Obama giving Putin the cold shoulder after he seized Crimea.
As he should have because it was illegitimate and war mongering behavior. Not giving Putin the cold shoulder risk normalizing such behavior and thus promoting wars. That's why Trump's effort to legitimize and legalize Russia's wars in Europe are so dangerous. As for Iran. Remember that Iran and the US did get a deal under Obama and then Trump said ''I hate my predecessor because he was black so I'm killing this deal!''. That's quite a lot more arrogant than a heated discussion during the negotiations.
 

Trunkage

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Iran was always willing to come to the table. But the Us didn't really wan because Iran was such a good scapegoat and because Israel always fueled tensions and tried to get a Iran-US war started.
It's a strange comment becuase Obama and Biden both got Iran to the table. You can be unhappy with what happened at the table, but claiming they didn't is ridiculous. (I'm pretty sure I won't be happy with what Trump does at the table)

Trump was erratic during his last administration and it was Iran who followed through with measured, proportional and mature that lead to 'peace' in the area (as much peace as can be had with Iran.) Like China, they played Trump like a fiddle and the US lost
 

Gergar12

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It's a strange comment becuase Obama and Biden both got Iran to the table. You can be unhappy with what happened at the table, but claiming they didn't is ridiculous. (I'm pretty sure I won't be happy with what Trump does at the table)

Trump was erratic during his last administration and it was Iran who followed through with measured, proportional and mature that lead to 'peace' in the area (as much peace as can be had with Iran.) Like China, they played Trump like a fiddle and the US lost
I disagree Biden was more hawkish on Iran than Obama. Especially his Secretary of State.
 

Satinavian

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It's a strange comment becuase Obama and Biden both got Iran to the table.
Yes. Obama even got a deal. Because Iran was willing to come to the table even then. But it was the US that then cancelled the deal and sabotaged everyone else trying to make agreements with Iran with sanctions. Iran stuck to the agreements.

And Biden never tried to repair stuff. He hardly did anything with Iran aside from trying to blame them for Hamas.



Getting Iran to the table never had been difficult or an achievement.
 
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