Ukraine

[Agema]

Okay, fine. So Mongolia is protected by a vow of neutrality and nothing else, sure.

Mongolia is protected by the fact that neither Russia nor China will permit the other to control it.

In the long run, as Russia declines and China rises, China will have Mongolia one way or the other - whether through cultural dominance or just rolling the tanks in.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I would advise caution with that news outlet, they are known here for being the most militant of the right-wing tabloids and have been prefacing so many of their article headlines with a massive "WORLD WAR 3" the second a diplomat so much as coughs in the wrong direction, for however many years now. They are truly awful in these such topics, always itching for war with every implied breath.

Something to keep in mind that things maybe be false,

also here is part of the video, this is 100% real

 

[Hawki]

Russian units ‘surrendering’, US says

A Senior US Defence official has claimed Russia’s assault on Ukraine’s capital of Kyiv has stalled due to logistic issues.

www.news.com.au

I'm not complaining, but in what upside down war is it that the better equipped, more numerous, invading enemy, is the one that's giving up without a fight? 0_0

Wait. Those Encyclopedias still exist?

Online, yes.

 

[Agema]

Something to keep in mind that things maybe be false,

also here is part of the video, this is 100% real

This is less exciting than we might think. That picture is showing little we don't know effectively already, because we've already seen where the invasion happened and where it's gone - except the invasion of Moldova, though. Arguably it may be just planning to take the breakaway region of Transnistria, not the whole of Moldova.

Anyone who has watched enough global politics knows that Lukashenko has a history of kind of trolling Putin.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Hey guys more bad news, This war is causing a food shortage in the Middle East. because there can't be one Global crisis that doesn't fuck the Middle East in the ass

 

[Kwak]

Mental illness shouldn't be the jump to explanation for someone being obviously and obstinately wrong.

You're right. I should have said 'this is insane', but, wine, feeling blunt.

 

[bluegate]

Russian units ‘surrendering’, US says

A Senior US Defence official has claimed Russia’s assault on Ukraine’s capital of Kyiv has stalled due to logistic issues.

www.news.com.au

I'm not complaining, but in what upside down war is it that the better equipped, more numerous, invading enemy, is the one that's giving up without a fight? 0_0

Maybe it's because we're dealing with young conscripts who first camped together in winter conditions for training maneuvers for a month and then were sent into Ukraine on a training mission which suddenly turned out to be real with people actually dying.

Edit, added a video;

 

[Terminal Blue]

Mongolia is protected by the fact that neither Russia nor China will permit the other to control it.

This.

It's this.

Mongolia isn't independent because it declared neutrality and everyone left it alone because they're sweet, kind people who respect Mongolia's sovereignty. Mongolian government policy is to intentionally create deadlocks of influence that balance the amount of control different countries have on its politics and economy.

One example of this is the the "third neighbour" policy, whereby Mongolia deliberately seeks to ally itself with nations other than its neighbours so that they can act as a counterweight to influence those neighbours might gain. One of Mongolia's most important "third neighbours" is the USA.

Mongolia is a NATO partner. Mongolia sent troops to Iraq and Afghanistan. Mongolia signed a strategic partnership with the US in 2019, making the US the only country outside Asia to have such a partnership. Mongolia has been cited by multiple US government departments as a key economic and strategic ally in the region.

The Mongolian government isn't doing all this for fun, it is a deliberate policy to protect Mongolia's sovereignty from its neighbours.

Long term, it does seem like China will eventually be the winner in Mongolia, but it won't be easy. Anti-Chinese sentiment is really high in the Mongolian population, largely due to China's treatment of ethnic Mongolians within China.

 

[Gergar12]

Good news. Fascists hate it too

Dude, we didn't win the Cold War with fascists; we won it with realists, liberals, and democrats. South Korea became a first-rate economy, Japan, and Germany recovered. Is someone who doesn't want communists occupying his or her or their country a fascist, because then everyone's a fascist.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Dude, we didn't win the Cold War with fascists; we won it with realists, liberals, and democrats. South Korea became a first-rate economy, Japan, and Germany recovered. Is someone who doesn't want communists occupying his or her or their country a fascist, because then everyone's a fascist.

...awful lot of Death Game For Cash Prizes media coming from said "first rate economy"

 

[Trunkage]

"President Putin, Belarus has joined the war!"
"Send two divisions to deal with them."
"You don't understand, they joined on our side!"
"My God, send ten divisions!"

Can I just say, CM sass is always appreciated

 

[Terminal Blue]

Dude, we didn't win the Cold War with fascists; we won it with realists, liberals, and democrats. South Korea became a first-rate economy.

Until quite recently, South Korea was ruled by fascists.

The democratization of South Korea began in the late 80s, and is still very much ongoing.

 

[Trunkage]

Dude, we didn't win the Cold War with fascists; we won it with realists, liberals, and democrats. South Korea became a first-rate economy, Japan, and Germany recovered. Is someone who doesn't want communists occupying his or her or their country a fascist, because then everyone's a fascist.

The first thing I suggest you do is look up Indonesia, 1950s. US trained police murdered 1 million suspect Comminist. Tortured another million. None of it was Liberal. A lot of it real fascie.

This was deem so successful, it was copy and pasted across South America

I'd also suggest you look up Guatemala. Yep, it had been going on for a while beforehand, but 1954 was a real fascie move... in a agonizing torturous century of fascism. Backed by US government and corporations

Other reading suggestions: Fujimoro, Pinochet or perhaps how Zaire got started.

Capitalism is NOT built liberals. It's built on death squads. We, or those we trained, just murdered more people than Stalin could even imagine

Yeah, West!

 

[Terminal Blue]

Other reading suggestions: Fujimoro, Pinochet or perhaps how Zaire got started.

If you want to see how dark it can get and how direct the involvement can be, look up Daniel Mitrione.

The death squads would be bad enough. Capitalism in many parts of the world was built by people who put live rats into people's bodily orifices.

 

[Satinavian]

A lot of shitty things happened during the cold war.


But all of that is long part of history and has nothing to do with the current Ukraine war where no communists whatsoever are involved.

 

[Hawki]

A lot of shitty things happened during the cold war.


But all of that is long part of history and has nothing to do with the current Ukraine war where no communists whatsoever are involved.

No communists, true, but I'd say the Cold War itself is definitely related to what's going on. There's a clear link from the end of the Cold War to where we ended up, with Putin dreaming of reviving the USSR and whatnot, and declaring that Ukraine isn't even a "real country" in order to do it.

 

[Satinavian]

True.

but honestly, those guys praising the glory of the USSR and bemoaning its end are eariry similar to those guys never shutting up about how glorious the British empire was and how tragic it is that it is gone. They live in the past. Not the real past, but some idealized one of course.

Nearly every USSR successor nation and ex Warshaw pact nation does not want to go back and is very happy to have finally shaken Russion control. And their situation does not even remotely look the same for them as it looked 4 decades ago.

 

[Lykosia]

Russian units ‘surrendering’, US says

A Senior US Defence official has claimed Russia’s assault on Ukraine’s capital of Kyiv has stalled due to logistic issues.

www.news.com.au

I'm not complaining, but in what upside down war is it that the better equipped, more numerous, invading enemy, is the one that's giving up without a fight? 0_0

"Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics. Professionals talk about logistics and sustainability in warfare" (Gen. Robert Barrow)

It seems to be winter of 39-40 all over again. Russia again underestimated their opponent and thought it would be over in a day or two. And that the people in the country being invaded would welcome them with open arms.

 

[Silvanus]

 

[Silvanus]

I've been arguing about the confluence of that possibility with being a member of a large and hostile military alliance that has the protection of the nuclear arsenal of the United States. In any case, I've been told that nukes on one's border aren't a big deal, and it's a violation of national sovereignty to have a problem with it, so it must not count. The Budapest memorandum has no guarantees of non-aggression against Russia.

Nukes on ones border might have been a big deal. There are no nukes in Ukraine (Christ, I feel like I'm repeating all over again that there are no WMDs in Iraq...) and membership of NATO does not involve owning nukes. There was an international agreement with guarantees of no nukes on Russia's doorstep. And RUSSIA BROKE IT.

Maybe diplomacy could have been tried sometime in the last twenty three years after the issue was raised. Maybe it could have been tried in the last 14 after Putin explained exactly what would set Russia off. Maybe the US and friends could have followed the advice of distinguished professors of international relations like John Mearsheimer in 2015, and refrained from trying to develop Ukraine into a western bulwark against Russia. Maybe the United States could have decided not to lend its support to a coup against an elected pro-Russian leader in Ukraine. The way you prove that a leader isn't interested in diplomacy is not ignoring them until they get frustrated and lash out.

Nope, it's by forming agreements with that leader and then sticking to them.

Ukraine stuck by its obligations in Budapest. Russia broke theirs. Russia then signed Minsk in bad faith, and proceeded to break it more egregiously and more frequently than any other party. At no point was Russia attacked by Ukraine. At no point were nuclear weapons placed in Ukraine. Twice now has Ukraine been invaded by Russia anyway.

Ukraine obviously needs some kind of security against Russia from elsewhere, because every time it makes an agreement with Russia, Russia breaks it in the most enormous and severe ways, without ever having been attacked themselves.