Ukraine

[Seanchaidh]

Bold, effective and risky: The new strategy the U.S. is using in the info war against Russia

“It doesn’t have to be solid intelligence,” one U.S. official said. “It’s more important to get out ahead of them [the Russians], Putin specifically, before they do something."

www.nbcnews.com

American disinformation is very successfully countering Russian disinformation.

Or in other words, you've run out of ways to try to justify Putin's war crimes, so you're declaring yourself the victor of the argument, packing up and running off.

No. I'm just tired of seeing myself misrepresented consistently.

 

[tstorm823]

No. I'm just tired of seeing myself misrepresented consistently.

The only misrepresentation of your position are the people who took any of your defense of Russia seriously. Just stop lying about your position and say "I side with whoever is against the US", and they won't misunderstand you.

 

[Satinavian]

No. I'm just tired of seeing myself misrepresented consistently.

Well, if everyone else has the same impression of you, that seems to be the impression you give via your posts.

Maybe not always taking the side of a dictator of a fascist nation waging wars of agressions to further his imperialist agenda and deliberately targetting civillians would help. And that goes for whataboutery and both-sides-nonsense as well.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

No. I'm just tired of seeing myself misrepresented consistently.

Come off it already. Your position is transparent: Putin has given you a Marxism boner over the idea of a return of the USSR as a foil to the West and a socialist beacon to the exploited workers of the world. And if the road to your utopia has to be paved with the corpses of thousands of Ukrainians, well, then you can just call them all Nazis and hold Putin up as a hero.

 

[Satinavian]

Kazakhstan has started some agressive lobbying in the EU for deeper economic connections, offering to replace much of the lost Russian raw material imports and of course complying the EU sanctions against Russia.

However, considering they had some difficlties recently, got hammered by the ecomomic disruptions of the war themself, want to stay in the EAEU and, most importantly, have problems transporting the stuff without going through Russia, i am not sure how much will arise from that.

 

[thebobmaster]

U.N. suspends Russia from human rights body, Moscow then quits

The United Nations General Assembly on Thursday suspended Russia from the U.N. Human Rights Council over reports of "gross and systematic violations and abuses of human rights" in Ukraine, prompting Moscow to announce it was quitting the body.

www.reuters.com

Looks like the United Nations is buying into the disinformation, huh? /s

 

[Generals]

It seems the German secret services caught the Russians discussing their little killing sprees in Bucha:

Bucha murders: German report says Russian troops discussed killings

Intercepted audio appears to show Russians talking about shooting town residents, Der Spiegel says.

www.bbc.com

 

[Silvanus]

This is an English translation of an article in RIA Novosti, a state media outlet In Russia. The translation is external, so you won't be giving them any clicks by reading it here, but it's been separately translated and corroborated. It is entitled "What Russia should do to Ukraine".

Key passages:

Denazification can only be conducted by the winner, which means (1) their unconditional control over the denazification process and (2) the authority that can ensure such control. For this purpose, a country that is being denazified cannot possess sovereignty. The denazifier state, Russia, cannot take a liberal approach towards denazification. The denazifier ideology cannot be challenged by the guilty party that is being denazified.

Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism.

Apparently, the name “Ukraine” cannot be kept as a title of any fully denazified state entity on the territory liberated from the Nazi regime.

Their political direction cannot be neutral in practice: the redemption of their guilt before Russia for treating it like an enemy can be manifested only by relying on Russia in the processes of restoration, revival, and development. No “Marshall Plans” can be allowed to happen on these territories. No “neutrality” in the ideological and practical sense that is compatible with denazification can be possible. Individuals and organizations who are to become tools of denazification in the new denazified republics cannot but rely on the direct organizational and force support from Russia.

Denazification will inevitably include de-ukrainization.

So, there we have it, in the state-approved and state-sponsored language of them themselves.

The explicit intention to fully dismantle Ukraine as a state; to refuse to allow any successor to be "neutral"; and the direct equation of "denazification" with "de-ukrainianisation".

And the utter hysterical shit about being worse than... Hitler.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

This is an English translation of an article in RIA Novosti, a state media outlet In Russia. The translation is external, so you won't be giving them any clicks by reading it here, but it's been separately translated and corroborated. It is entitled "What Russia should do to Ukraine".

Key passages:








So, there we have it, in the state-approved and state-sponsored language of them themselves.

The explicit intention to fully dismantle Ukraine as a state; to refuse to allow any successor to be "neutral"; and the direct equation of "denazification" with "de-ukrainianisation".

And the utter hysterical shit about being worse than... Hitler.

As an antifascist and as a communist I find it deeply offensive how Putin's Russia has the audacity to use antifascist rhetoric in its propaganda. The men who consider themselves the successors of the tsarist empire that was overthrown by the Bolsheviks invoke Europe's liberation from fascism by those very same Bolsheviks to continue the work of Hitler. It's deeply perverse.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

As an antifascist and as a communist I find it deeply offensive how Putin's Russia has the audacity to use antifascist rhetoric in its propaganda. The men who consider themselves the successors of the tsarist empire that was overthrown by the Bolsheviks invoke Europe's liberation from fascism by those very same Bolsheviks to continue the work of Hitler. It's deeply perverse.

I'm not a communist but I can really sympathize with you in this situation.

Apparently this rhetoric is working on some dumb ass tankies. The same people who talk shit about other leftists for being too moderate as they simp for a authoritarian right-wing regime.

As an actual communist this must be obnoxious for you.

 

[tstorm823]

As an antifascist and as a communist I find it deeply offensive how Putin's Russia has the audacity to use antifascist rhetoric in its propaganda. The men who consider themselves the successors of the tsarist empire that was overthrown by the Bolsheviks invoke Europe's liberation from fascism by those very same Bolsheviks to continue the work of Hitler. It's deeply perverse.

Original Antifa was directly aligned with Stalin. The definition of fascism they opposed included both capitalism and liberal democracy. You have adopted the rhetoric of genocidal authoritarians, not the other way around.

 

[Trunkage]

Original Antifa was directly aligned with Stalin. The definition of fascism they opposed included both capitalism and liberal democracy. You have adopted the rhetoric of genocidal authoritarians, not the other way around.

Antifa? The guys who started fighting against the Black Shirts even before Musollini got power? That was a combination of army officers, communists, republicans, anarchists and socialists. So... undemocratic. Antifa, that cared about defeating fascism... who are *check notes* against liberalism and democrary and turns capitalism into a slavery making machine. The same guys who WERE genocidal authoritarians. Gee, I wonder why they were against them

And who did the 'free thinking West' cosy up to? First, the fascist, then the communist. Wow, what a clean slate. I hope the US didn't have a nazi rally with ten of thousands of Nazis right in the middle of New York screaming out Nazi rhetoric and beating up Jews live on stage

 

[Chimpzy]

Fun quote I found:

"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, denies it's a duck, demands you prove it's a duck, accuses you of being a duck, says your dog is a duck, that your friend's cat is a duck, and that all three 'ducks' are Russophobic ducks paid to be crisis actors, it's a Kremlin duck."

 

[Thaluikhain]

Antifa? The guys who started fighting against the Black Shirts even before Musollini got power? That was a combination of army officers, communists, republicans, anarchists and socialists. So... undemocratic. Antifa, that cared about defeating fascism... who are *check notes* against liberalism and democrary and turns capitalism into a slavery making machine. The same guys who WERE genocidal authoritarians. Gee, I wonder why they were against them

And who did the 'free thinking West' cosy up to? First, the fascist, then the communist. Wow, what a clean slate. I hope the US didn't have a nazi rally with ten of thousands of Nazis right in the middle of New York screaming out Nazi rhetoric and beating up Jews live on stage

One could also point out that the US, British Commonwealth, France etc actually did directly align with Stalin to fight the fascists. Soviet troops were eating American spam and complaining about the rubbish equipment the UK sent them.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Original Antifa was directly aligned with Stalin. The definition of fascism they opposed included both capitalism and liberal democracy. You have adopted the rhetoric of genocidal authoritarians, not the other way around.

Don't try to tell a German about how Antifa is bad, actually. Including Social Democrats under their definition of fascists wasn't just a whim of Stalin, it was a result of the German Social Democrats collaborating with far right militias that led, among other things, to the assassination of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht. Of course fascism grows out of capitalism and liberal democracy. Both Nazi Germany and the current Russian Federation grew from capitalism and liberal democracy. It was people like that drunk degenerate Yeltsin who rolled out the red carpet for fascists like Dugin and Putin to assume power in Russia, under the banner of liberal capitalism.

 

[Silvanus]

Original Antifa was directly aligned with Stalin. The definition of fascism they opposed included both capitalism and liberal democracy. You have adopted the rhetoric of genocidal authoritarians, not the other way around.

Antifascist rhetoric and antifascism are not the sole (or even main) purview of a specific group called Antifa.

 

[Agema]

One could also point out that the US, British Commonwealth, France etc actually did directly align with Stalin to fight the fascists.

It's dubious that the French really count on this score, as France was effectively extinguished as an independent state before the alliance of convenience with the USSR.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's dubious that the French really count on this score, as France was effectively extinguished as an independent state before the alliance of convenience with the USSR.

True, though they were at least willing to join in and play nice later on when the fascists weren't quite defeated and France was sorta a thing again.

 

[Agema]

True, though they were at least willing to join in and play nice later on when the fascists weren't quite defeated and France was sorta a thing again.

I don't really think that counts either, as even after liberation France was effectively still a dependent nation needing huge quantities of foreign (i.e. US/UK) support to function, and so locked into the existing agreements of those countries.

We could add to that a certain idea of moral debt to the USA and UK, even if the material repercussions of promptly messing with its allies weren't painful enough. Although undoubtedly, there's some sense of national interest. De Gaulle wanted to end the war with France able to credibly posture as an equal in the winning team and reassume its role as a global power. The only way to do this was to borrow heavily from the nations that could bring it to strength quickly. The French military in late 1945 for instance was already over 1 million strong, and needless to say they were not equipped with French equipment.

 

[Generals]

It was people like that drunk degenerate Yeltsin who rolled out the red carpet for fascists like Dugin and Putin to assume power in Russia, under the banner of liberal capitalism.

Russia was already just a semi liberal democracy to begin with. And what made Putin so popular was his hard stance Chechnya and basically: Nationalism. And Yeltsin couldn't care less about liberal capitalism, he wanted someone that would ensure he wouldn't go down for corruption.
Anyway, one thing that will always be the same is that hating liberalism is a thing Fascists and commies share.