Uncharted 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I'll just use this one quote so you'd know I'm replying to your post.Noelveiga said:
It all is part of the narrative, true, but to me, when you have too much of it the whole experience gets lost in it. When you change environment every level after a short while you stop caring, it doesn't impact you when it needs to (like the last levels should). In U1 it was more clear and the sense of progression was played out by the environment and colours that went from lush green to dusty grey and brown with professional soldiers. In U2 you change your companion every level so it also numbs you to any further changes. Things like that should be well implemented and well played within a screenplay, the accents need to be in right places, because when they are off the audience can get lost or don't get involved with a plot.
Indiana Jones is a good example, but as I've mentioned earlier, Indy is a 100min film where the action sequence en route to hidden treasure takes 9mins, while in U2 it takes at least 40mins up to an hour after which the gamer is not at his destination but has to wonder somewhere, then somewhere else, then do some acrobatics etc etc. There is a goal somewhere in the distance, but it got blurry in the course of the game.
Additionally I think that the sub-quests (I call them that) lack the impact that would make them interesting. I just think they're weak. Like when Chloe gets on a train and we need to "rescue" her. Why? She's perfectly safe, at least to my knowledge... So it's a goal in the game but I don't understand the reason for it. I think that in a game like Uncharted 2 gamer should always be reminded where he's going and what it is that he's trying to achieve. After a few shootouts and couple acrobatic segments the weak goal doesn't seem important at all.
That's why I'm saying that the only goal here is to get to Shambala.
It's a bit like System Shock 2 (just a title that pops to my head when I think about something like this). You have a goal, say, get to laboratory that is at the end of the corridor. So you go there but the ceiling suddenly collapses and you have to find a way around which takes you a battling 2hrs. At the end, if you weren't reminded what is is that you wanted, you've forgot what were you doing.
Games are specific, they take a long time to complete, usually dialog is sparse in action games and often gamer can't aim for the head and listen to some chatter at the same time. A gamer gets all excited about the action on screen, much more than when he's watching a film, and sometimes he just does what a game tells him to do (like a sudden prompt to press R1 - you don't know what for but it seems that it's important). There could be more bits of dialog sprinkled here and there that would remind you how important is your current task, or the goals could be more compelling and the path towards achieving them could be more straight forward.
I've never said I didn't like Uncharted 2, because I did. I've enjoyed it a lot, but also I think that the story is really on the weak side of the spectrum (and doesn't work for an action video game) and what fools most of the gamers to thinking otherwise are well written dialogs and likeable characters. That was my point - that we like our protagonists (villain isn't that great) and we enjoy the witty, snotty dialog, but where's the story? Constant goose chase is not a story. Just because something works for a 100min blockbuster doesn't mean it will work for a 12hrs immersive experience.
in my opinion, uncharted 2 was good, it's just stealth went tits-up after the first level it was used
Funny, every single game Yahtzee mentioned that he believes has a unique storyline I found to be quite generic storyline wise. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy some of those games, but overall I found the situations and progression of story in those games incredibly typical. On top of this EVERY SINGLE GAME OUT THERE is a B rate storyline from some other media format be it book, movie, or comic. And its B rated because its told in the most retarded fashion because god forbid the player get bored because there's nothing to kill and rape on the screen. The most grandiose and original stories in my favorite games all have blatantly stolen elements from other stories. This really makes the entire article a moot point. Especially since a lot of those stolen plots are from B movies themselves (ie Running Man).
Its just really hard for me to take a comedian's word seriously on these matters. I know modern day society (at least in the United States) is hell bent on getting their news through a comedian but I still have higher standards. I watch and read Zero Punctuation every week for entertainment but as for actual opinions on video games, I'll go elsewhere. Occasionally he'll like a game I do and on those occasions I find myself congratulating him for having good taste for once.
Its just really hard for me to take a comedian's word seriously on these matters. I know modern day society (at least in the United States) is hell bent on getting their news through a comedian but I still have higher standards. I watch and read Zero Punctuation every week for entertainment but as for actual opinions on video games, I'll go elsewhere. Occasionally he'll like a game I do and on those occasions I find myself congratulating him for having good taste for once.
Well I have to say usually I like and agree with most of the things Yahtzee Croshaw talks about in his reviews. I have to say I completely disagree with you on Uncharted 2.
Sure, Uncharted 1 was not that great (in fact it was very hard to play through for me and I stopped playing after a couple of hours -- combat was repetitive and not very fun). AI was too good of a shot and always knew exactly where you were. Overall pacing of the game was a bit flawed as well.
Now take Uncharted 2, combat is fun! The pacing of the game is spectacular! The game feels like I'm playing a Summer Action movie that never lets up! It's what Indiana Jones 4 should have been (I say this as a HUGE Indiana Jones fan that will only admit to 3 films in the series).
You complain about the fact that Drake has killed a bunch of guys yet seem to forget that it's a GAME and in a GAME it's fun to defeat opponents. I'm not sure Die Hard the Movie becoming a game and only have less than 12 terrorist would really work as your total number of enemies unless the game only lasted 3 hours and then no one would buy it due to reviews panning it for being a short game.
Further more if you really look at it, Uncharted 2 is basically a modern day version of God of War (yet some how you like God of War but not this?) I just don't get it. Okay sure the story is not deep, but then again most summer action films aren't either -- so what? As long as they're entertaining and exciting with likable characters and good acting/voice acting.
But I think that's where the rub is, Yahtzee Croshaw does not like Nathan Drake (I still don't think that bias is worth the panning you gave the game). I happen to like him and the game. I'm looking forward to getting the time to play a 2nd play through and felt it was one of the most action packed fun (well designed) and utterly beautiful games I've got to play in a long time -- I can't remember sweating as much playing a game as it.
Sure, Uncharted 1 was not that great (in fact it was very hard to play through for me and I stopped playing after a couple of hours -- combat was repetitive and not very fun). AI was too good of a shot and always knew exactly where you were. Overall pacing of the game was a bit flawed as well.
Now take Uncharted 2, combat is fun! The pacing of the game is spectacular! The game feels like I'm playing a Summer Action movie that never lets up! It's what Indiana Jones 4 should have been (I say this as a HUGE Indiana Jones fan that will only admit to 3 films in the series).
You complain about the fact that Drake has killed a bunch of guys yet seem to forget that it's a GAME and in a GAME it's fun to defeat opponents. I'm not sure Die Hard the Movie becoming a game and only have less than 12 terrorist would really work as your total number of enemies unless the game only lasted 3 hours and then no one would buy it due to reviews panning it for being a short game.
Further more if you really look at it, Uncharted 2 is basically a modern day version of God of War (yet some how you like God of War but not this?) I just don't get it. Okay sure the story is not deep, but then again most summer action films aren't either -- so what? As long as they're entertaining and exciting with likable characters and good acting/voice acting.
But I think that's where the rub is, Yahtzee Croshaw does not like Nathan Drake (I still don't think that bias is worth the panning you gave the game). I happen to like him and the game. I'm looking forward to getting the time to play a 2nd play through and felt it was one of the most action packed fun (well designed) and utterly beautiful games I've got to play in a long time -- I can't remember sweating as much playing a game as it.
Great dissection of the game character. Although, examine the protagonists in most games. I ask, are any of them actually likable, decent, rational human beings that you could relate to? Most of them are sociopaths or silent enigmatic super-soldiers. Even the seemingly most benign of game characters, Mario, fits this profile. Then again, Yahtzee has already pointed that out.
I'm going to have to disagree on some of the games cited as having unique storylines though. InFamous, Bionic Commando, and Prototype ESPECIALLY, since they all share essentially the same interchangeable story outline.
MadWorld is also un-unique in both the game world (Manhunt) and in general (Running Man).
I'm going to have to disagree on some of the games cited as having unique storylines though. InFamous, Bionic Commando, and Prototype ESPECIALLY, since they all share essentially the same interchangeable story outline.
MadWorld is also un-unique in both the game world (Manhunt) and in general (Running Man).
Sorry buddy, had to quote you.Xiado said:
You can't judge a game like that, otherwise EVERY game sounds uninteresting.
Otherwise:
Bioshock: Underwater, not original
System Shock 2: Oh it's set in space, not original.
See the problem there?
Batman: Arkham Asylum: Though I have a personal problem with the game. To say it's unoriginal is just... wrong. This is a unique VIDEO GAME. The story for the game was not in the comics, I believe it was made for the game.
Infamous: It was fairly unique. You can't call it a Prototype ripoff because the games were released at the same time. >.>
Prototype: It was also unique. Your powers were varied and interesting. You can't call it an Infamous ripoff because it was released at the same time as Infamous.
I dont care if a game plays out like a movie, so long as the gameplay is sound
in many cases, it can enhance the gameplay experience, but so long as they dont change the gameplay to make it more 'cinematic', that sucks
in many cases, it can enhance the gameplay experience, but so long as they dont change the gameplay to make it more 'cinematic', that sucks
I can appreciate Yahtzee's criticisms of Drake's character, but I think he's being a bit of a hypocrite as well. He makes a valid argument that what works for a movie doesn't necessarily work for a game, but he doesn't acknowledge the opposite is true as well. Since movies are a passive experience already it's easier for directors and writers to take time out to flesh out character minutia like feeding one's goldfish. Video games on the other hand have to keep a lively pace going and keep the player involved, so what cutscenes are used have to be used sparingly. On top of that Uncharted has to keep us engaged for 10hrs while Indy only has to entertain for just a couple. So like it or not killing enemies, while incongruous with the character, is necessary to make the game fulfilling.
Funnily enough Yahtzee has said in the past that the best writing and visual media are succinct and punchy and that's pretty much Uncharted in a nutshell. But then he's also criticized games that do flesh out characters in the way that he's describing like MGS and Mass Effect.
Also I sense his nostalgia is getting the best of him because I don't remember Indiana being that deep of a character either and had the Uncharted games been set in a time period where he could kill Nazis the game would be branded a Indiana Jones rip-off instead of just mislabeled that way. Yahtzee speaks as if the Indy films aren't popcorn entertainment themselves when they're actually the ultimate popcorn entertainment, which is why they're so memorable to begin with.
Uncharted is the same way, complete and total popcorn entertainment, but executed in a thrilling enough way to be memorable and to stick with us long after we've played games with more thematic heft. Despite being popcorn Indy is more memorable than most Oscar winning movies and I suspect Uncharted 2 will have a similar impact on games.
Funnily enough Yahtzee has said in the past that the best writing and visual media are succinct and punchy and that's pretty much Uncharted in a nutshell. But then he's also criticized games that do flesh out characters in the way that he's describing like MGS and Mass Effect.
Also I sense his nostalgia is getting the best of him because I don't remember Indiana being that deep of a character either and had the Uncharted games been set in a time period where he could kill Nazis the game would be branded a Indiana Jones rip-off instead of just mislabeled that way. Yahtzee speaks as if the Indy films aren't popcorn entertainment themselves when they're actually the ultimate popcorn entertainment, which is why they're so memorable to begin with.
Uncharted is the same way, complete and total popcorn entertainment, but executed in a thrilling enough way to be memorable and to stick with us long after we've played games with more thematic heft. Despite being popcorn Indy is more memorable than most Oscar winning movies and I suspect Uncharted 2 will have a similar impact on games.
Actually, it seems to me that Drake doesn't actually blow the question off. When Lazarevic brings the question up Drake's hesitation is quite noticeable. And he doesn't kill Lazarevic, the guardians do.
"You don't have the will"- Lazarevic
"Maybe not. But THEY do."- Drake
"You don't have the will"- Lazarevic
"Maybe not. But THEY do."- Drake
The lack of humanity with the character seems to be a common complaint... I can understand why.
I didn't particularly like Indiana Jones in the first places, the movies bored the shit out of me. But from the sounds of the character from Yahtzee's description... he seems a bit extrodinary, a bit too extrodinary to be human. You can't fault Nate for being the way he is... and the idea of a money grabbing, self-centred twat is more realistic than the selfless Indiana Jones style character.
Anyone find it funny that Yahtzee mentioned Prototype having an original story, when he went on about how generic it was that it was the same old super soldier thing again? Plus the fact he has amnesia and there's a city wide virus infecting people. It's not original, just several clichéd stories smacked together.
Not saying it isn't a fun ride though, just that it wasn't a good example to use.
Not saying it isn't a fun ride though, just that it wasn't a good example to use.