Unexplained Zombie Outbreak?
- Thread starter Scarletmarine
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Btw Max Brooks really does believe in Zombies. He really does take zombies seriously, he said, "Even though the book is in the humor section, there's nothing funny about a zombie killing and eating you."
Zombies had always existed. Hollywood just made it a movie. And before that someone just gave it a name. Here's a samll quote that I like,
"Ignorance, A Zombie's greatest ally. Knowledge, A Zombie's worst enemy."
xoxo
Zombies had always existed. Hollywood just made it a movie. And before that someone just gave it a name. Here's a samll quote that I like,
"Ignorance, A Zombie's greatest ally. Knowledge, A Zombie's worst enemy."
xoxo
What is the heart and brain matter? If by brain you mean the myth that a zombie can only be killed by damaging it's brain, I personally don't beleive it, though its possible an infected person could mostly not react to superflous (or even semi-lethal) injuries giving the illusion that the brain is the only way to stop them.Scarletmarine said:
And if by heart you mean the myth that a zombie's heart stops pumping blood or the blood congeals, this is obviously untrue. Every creature on the planet requires at least minimal oxygen (even the most basic one celled organisms) and the blood is how humans transport oxygen. However, in it's favor, there are countless chemical which will drastically slow down the human heart, some will even give the impression of death. Of course all of these render the victim entirely unconcious, but still, it would be possible that a zombie would have a very slow heart beat.
As for killing one, I would find it less fun and more grotesque. Even if it was one of my enemies (which honestly I can count on one finger) I still couldn't avoid the fact that it was bassically just an ill human I killed.
One word, crossbow.Pari4h post=18.68039.625596 said:
They come under Arms im afraid well the ones which would be worth useing, i do have a bow though and have won many a championship, Last year my club had a competition as to who could knock the apple of the top of a manakin at 100 feet only me and this girl managed it on the first shot, then only she managed it at 150 feet i managed to hit the target square in the left eye.Khedive Rex post=18.68039.625801 said:
Yeah ill be fine and ill be giveing her a ring very quickly when the brain muchers start walking, im sure she will agree as two bows are better than one. And we are going out (soon soon i hope).
Logic sugests that saying such things is retarded as it Can happen, Everything imaginable can happen it just probably won't.kiltmanfortywo post=18.68039.623137 said:
I'll have to admit I have never found zombies to be either interesting or scary. Must be a generational thing. Even as a little kid in the early sixties when people weren't desensitized to violence like we are today, zombies never scared me. What are zombies compared to bears? Or wild dogs? Or people? Ever walked through a field of tall grass and had a dozen buzzards with six foot wingspans rise up around you? Now THAT is scary, not zombies. Even as a small child, scaring myself as children do for the fun of being scared, I never found zombies scary. Zombies are the mummy ordered in quantity - slow, stupid, and poorly armed. And they don't even make sense - they stagger around murmuring "brains" and hunting the living, but then they don't eat the brains, they just take a couple bites of arm and wonder off. They're not even efficient killers, taking insufficient nourishment whilst creating their own competition. To me, intelligence and speed are scary, not stupidity and sloth.
As to the government hiding a zombie outbreak, here in the States at least that's not how we do things. Governors would be screaming for federal dollars. Congressmen would have family member forming anti-zombie corporations and funneling grants worth millions to them. The CDC would be flying people all over the place to study them. Actors would be doing PSAs telling you that you can't catch zombie-ism from casual contact. Reverend Wright would be telling people the CIA created zombies to kill black people. Complete details would have been downloaded onto at least three laptops in non-encrypted form, and at least two of the laptops would have been accidentally left on trains. We don't do secrecy. Not even when we should. Not to mention - our government would love a zombie outbreak! Maybe you haven't noticed, but we like to fight stuff. Zombies? Made to freaking order. There's no cash trails to trace, no Zombie Civil Liberties Union, no Council on American Zombie Relations, no co-dead but non-brain-eating zombies to offend - zombies would be a thousand times better than terrorists.
Hell, I'm surprised there's not a Department of Zombie Control already, just so the government can point to a great success. With a 50 million dollar Robert C. Byrd Center for the Study of Zombie Control stuck square in the middle of West Virginia. "Don't see any zombies, do you? That's your tax dollars at work!"
EDIT: One of my cats just sneezed under my chair when I'd forgotten she was there. And THAT was scarier than zombies.
As to the government hiding a zombie outbreak, here in the States at least that's not how we do things. Governors would be screaming for federal dollars. Congressmen would have family member forming anti-zombie corporations and funneling grants worth millions to them. The CDC would be flying people all over the place to study them. Actors would be doing PSAs telling you that you can't catch zombie-ism from casual contact. Reverend Wright would be telling people the CIA created zombies to kill black people. Complete details would have been downloaded onto at least three laptops in non-encrypted form, and at least two of the laptops would have been accidentally left on trains. We don't do secrecy. Not even when we should. Not to mention - our government would love a zombie outbreak! Maybe you haven't noticed, but we like to fight stuff. Zombies? Made to freaking order. There's no cash trails to trace, no Zombie Civil Liberties Union, no Council on American Zombie Relations, no co-dead but non-brain-eating zombies to offend - zombies would be a thousand times better than terrorists.
Hell, I'm surprised there's not a Department of Zombie Control already, just so the government can point to a great success. With a 50 million dollar Robert C. Byrd Center for the Study of Zombie Control stuck square in the middle of West Virginia. "Don't see any zombies, do you? That's your tax dollars at work!"
EDIT: One of my cats just sneezed under my chair when I'd forgotten she was there. And THAT was scarier than zombies.
That is great werepossum!
The T-virus thing sounds almost like a plausible reason but it overlooks the fact that the human digestive tract is not directly connect to all body parts, especially the brain. It the circulatory system is down, then there is no efficient manner to get the energy from the food to the brain. Other than that, a very good explanation of how a virus works.
As for trying to research any of the events in the Zombie Survival Guide, especially on the internet, if it is not coming from a reliable source, ie official news, police, governmental, or hospital records, it is most likely been fabricated by some fan. The internet has a horrible habit of lying to people
If you stumble upon something that you feel is truly an example or proof of this fetish(merely meaning a fanatical love of or desire for, not always sexual) check the creation date. If it was made any time after the release of the book, probably not a reliable source.
Simply because something is imaginable does not make it possible. I imagine lincoln coming back to life and fighting Osama Bin Laden in a cage fight. Imaginable, not possible. Absolute statements are null and void if any exclusion can be found or a part of it can be proven false.
Yes, a body can mutate and change its needs, Antisanta, but what we are discussing here is not a mutation so much as a complete biological overhaul. Lets use my trusty "out-of-context-machine" to throw some perspective on this. I have a 1988 Lincoln TC. It runs on gas, is air cooled, and has a radio that has all the static channels you could want. I decide one day to make it run independent of air and gas and instead take its energy from nuclear fusion in the trunk. It just ain't gonna happen, much to the same degree that a human body cannot be independent of O2, food, and water but still function to any degree. The time it would take to convert every cell, even 10% of the cells to such a state every other cell would have rotted, shriveled, and blown away as dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind.(Sorry, love that song.)
The idea of undeath has been around for as long as death, and therefore man, because man inherently fears the unknown. He cannot grasp the fact that eventually he will be as important as, well, dust in the wind. Death is a massive change and nobody can know what truly awaits you once you kick it. Zombies, ghosts, vampires, etc. are all "security blankets" for man, giving him the slight hope that he either won't die, or something happens to you after you die than simply rotting in a box. Psychology and human nature are the reason zombies "exist", not viruses or magic.
Ignorance is a two way street, Scarlet. All the trivial knowledge in the world won't protect you if you are ignorant to basic needs of man and how to fulfill those needs. That holds true in any situation, whether it is your zombie holocaust or something as mundane as having to survive you 9-5 life.
Kiltman
P.S. God, my posts are long. I'll work on that...
The T-virus thing sounds almost like a plausible reason but it overlooks the fact that the human digestive tract is not directly connect to all body parts, especially the brain. It the circulatory system is down, then there is no efficient manner to get the energy from the food to the brain. Other than that, a very good explanation of how a virus works.
As for trying to research any of the events in the Zombie Survival Guide, especially on the internet, if it is not coming from a reliable source, ie official news, police, governmental, or hospital records, it is most likely been fabricated by some fan. The internet has a horrible habit of lying to people
If you stumble upon something that you feel is truly an example or proof of this fetish(merely meaning a fanatical love of or desire for, not always sexual) check the creation date. If it was made any time after the release of the book, probably not a reliable source.Simply because something is imaginable does not make it possible. I imagine lincoln coming back to life and fighting Osama Bin Laden in a cage fight. Imaginable, not possible. Absolute statements are null and void if any exclusion can be found or a part of it can be proven false.
Yes, a body can mutate and change its needs, Antisanta, but what we are discussing here is not a mutation so much as a complete biological overhaul. Lets use my trusty "out-of-context-machine" to throw some perspective on this. I have a 1988 Lincoln TC. It runs on gas, is air cooled, and has a radio that has all the static channels you could want. I decide one day to make it run independent of air and gas and instead take its energy from nuclear fusion in the trunk. It just ain't gonna happen, much to the same degree that a human body cannot be independent of O2, food, and water but still function to any degree. The time it would take to convert every cell, even 10% of the cells to such a state every other cell would have rotted, shriveled, and blown away as dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind.(Sorry, love that song.)
The idea of undeath has been around for as long as death, and therefore man, because man inherently fears the unknown. He cannot grasp the fact that eventually he will be as important as, well, dust in the wind. Death is a massive change and nobody can know what truly awaits you once you kick it. Zombies, ghosts, vampires, etc. are all "security blankets" for man, giving him the slight hope that he either won't die, or something happens to you after you die than simply rotting in a box. Psychology and human nature are the reason zombies "exist", not viruses or magic.
Ignorance is a two way street, Scarlet. All the trivial knowledge in the world won't protect you if you are ignorant to basic needs of man and how to fulfill those needs. That holds true in any situation, whether it is your zombie holocaust or something as mundane as having to survive you 9-5 life.
Kiltman
P.S. God, my posts are long. I'll work on that...
Obviously, if a subject is dead they aren't going to be coming back to life thirsting for brains. If the circulatory tracked has stopped working, the person in question is dead and the t-virus explination no longer applys or is intended to apply. If the circulatory system is not down, then you would agree its more than simple to transport food from the digestive track to every other spot in the body. In this case, a virus is more than an acceptable method to create a zombie.kiltmanfortywo said:
I agree with you, I don't however understand how this defeats the possibility of Zombies. Demeaning zombies as imaginary is all well and good but it doesn't establish that they can't exist.kiltmanfortywo said:
"There's such a thing as zombies", I'm assuming is the absolute statement in question. You have yet to prove that some part of zombification (through viral means, obviously zombification through reanimation is ridiculous) is impossible and the logic of annihilation through exception is flawed in this case. If I were to say "There's such a thing as rabies" and someone offered the exception "but that dog doesn't have it" that does not defeat the existance of rabies; it qualifies it.
Allow me to first say that I personally would find the prospect of being turned into any of the "undead" that you describe horrifiying. I would much rather cease to exist than be a zombie.kiltmanfortywo said:
That being said, the origins of this mythology is inconsequential. We're disscussing whether zombies could be real, not why humans thought them up. In the debate at hand, zombification through the acquisition of a disease is more than plausable. You seem to still be adressing the idea that zombies can't exist because nothing can be brought back from the dead. We have conceeded this. Life however can be affected by other forms of life. It is more than plausible that a disease could exist which would give it's victims all the outward appearances of a zombie.
Discolored skin, the desire to bite (even perhaps as specifically as brains) physical weakness or awkwardness, mental dimentia or confusion/loss of awareness. These traits, a zombie makes. And all of these traits could conceivably be side effects of the same illness. It is therefore possible an Illness could render a man a zombie.
(My posts are long too. I can't help myself though. I'm debating the existence of zombies for goodness sake! I'm like a pyromaniac in a burning toy store!)
10 million eh? Go for it, i could use the aiming practice. Might have to rob a few gun stores for the bullets, but hey, i am willing to make that sacrifice.Scarletmarine post=18.68039.620352 said:
Rex, my absolute statement thing was validating my point that imagining does not create possibility. Existence is easy to prove, impossible to disprove 100% simply because you would have to literally analyze every molecule in the universe, understand how it will react with every other molecule or reaction of molecules, and know all this before conditions change.( I realize this seems like a contradiction to my point but keep reading.)
That said, science has laws that cannot be changed, bent, or broken. That makes certain ideas impossible, ie perpetual motion. The zombification from the ZSG creates a perpetual motion machine out of a man, requiring no input from the environment to have it exist and function. Physically impossible. Wasn't that idea of it also a virus too?
For the virus, we are now in the extremely liberal definitions of zombie. Basically, and correct me if I am interpreting this wrong, any sick person that walks with a limp, is apparently dumber than a sack of door knobs(or unable to articulate), and is violent is what we are now defining zombie? This could easily be a mute war veteran with a peg leg who greats all his guests by biting them on the face
If we want to play zombie that way, then a mental institute patient who is inarticulate and violent is now a zombie; people with advanced rabies are now zombies, a violent, MR man is now a zombie. This is not a valid argument. For something as farfetched as zombies, you cannot be constantly changing the definition to make it sound plausible. How the person comes to be in the state of zombie matters, it must follow scientific laws, and any case that you are trying to make as your proof must be from a valid source, not the ZSG, WWZ, or a website claiming to be the zombie exterminators.(BTW, look up the Future Apocalypse Prevention Corps.)
Kiltman
P.S. Just a little shorter, eh?
That said, science has laws that cannot be changed, bent, or broken. That makes certain ideas impossible, ie perpetual motion. The zombification from the ZSG creates a perpetual motion machine out of a man, requiring no input from the environment to have it exist and function. Physically impossible. Wasn't that idea of it also a virus too?
For the virus, we are now in the extremely liberal definitions of zombie. Basically, and correct me if I am interpreting this wrong, any sick person that walks with a limp, is apparently dumber than a sack of door knobs(or unable to articulate), and is violent is what we are now defining zombie? This could easily be a mute war veteran with a peg leg who greats all his guests by biting them on the face
If we want to play zombie that way, then a mental institute patient who is inarticulate and violent is now a zombie; people with advanced rabies are now zombies, a violent, MR man is now a zombie. This is not a valid argument. For something as farfetched as zombies, you cannot be constantly changing the definition to make it sound plausible. How the person comes to be in the state of zombie matters, it must follow scientific laws, and any case that you are trying to make as your proof must be from a valid source, not the ZSG, WWZ, or a website claiming to be the zombie exterminators.(BTW, look up the Future Apocalypse Prevention Corps.)
Kiltman
P.S. Just a little shorter, eh?
This topic is in dire need of some English practicality...on BOTH sides.
So, being a freaking genius, I used the oft overlooked tool, known as 'goo-gle'.
Initial (and successful) research into reanimating Canines [http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html]
Not mentioned yet I don't think, but again, important research in itself, but also leads to the POSSIBILITY, not proof of, re-animating human corpses.
This was initially performed around the 1940's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms] (and thats a NSFW link to be honest, severed dog heads etc.)
There's more, but this is things that I can confirm as actually happening.
Now then - what does this mean?
...
...
Not a lot at all, really - this in no way shows that any government has perfected the research, but it shows that the possibility of an outbreak occuring COULD be possible, but what virus could do such a thing? The most recent tests used a hypothermic oxygenated saline solution that as far as I know was purely artifical - not a naturally existing substance, so for a virus to be able to infect a host with that is very unlikely.
So, Scarlet, whilst the story sounds interesting, I don't really think there is a lot to it; if I'm honest then I see pseudo-vampires being more likely than widespread animated dead - a mutated form of Porphyria and iron deficiency could perhaps give the host a dire need to drink blood for sustenance, but again, highly unlikely.
As for werewolves?...eugh, another sketchy subject;
There is indeed a disease named Hypertrichosis or 'Wolfitis' (lame name in the latter there if you ask me) that causes an excess growth of body hair - combine this with rabies and you already have a werewolf, minus the full-moon requirement.
But, again, unlikely - who would do this, and why? We already have technology that can produce devastating bio-weapons, why need ones that shuffle around and can be easily shot at?
There is no need for machetes and guns - on the off chance you may want to keep one of the guns, but the chances are so small that keeping an arsenal in the bedroom.
So, being a freaking genius, I used the oft overlooked tool, known as 'goo-gle'.
Initial (and successful) research into reanimating Canines [http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html]
Not mentioned yet I don't think, but again, important research in itself, but also leads to the POSSIBILITY, not proof of, re-animating human corpses.
This was initially performed around the 1940's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms] (and thats a NSFW link to be honest, severed dog heads etc.)
There's more, but this is things that I can confirm as actually happening.
Now then - what does this mean?
...
...
Not a lot at all, really - this in no way shows that any government has perfected the research, but it shows that the possibility of an outbreak occuring COULD be possible, but what virus could do such a thing? The most recent tests used a hypothermic oxygenated saline solution that as far as I know was purely artifical - not a naturally existing substance, so for a virus to be able to infect a host with that is very unlikely.
So, Scarlet, whilst the story sounds interesting, I don't really think there is a lot to it; if I'm honest then I see pseudo-vampires being more likely than widespread animated dead - a mutated form of Porphyria and iron deficiency could perhaps give the host a dire need to drink blood for sustenance, but again, highly unlikely.
As for werewolves?...eugh, another sketchy subject;
There is indeed a disease named Hypertrichosis or 'Wolfitis' (lame name in the latter there if you ask me) that causes an excess growth of body hair - combine this with rabies and you already have a werewolf, minus the full-moon requirement.
But, again, unlikely - who would do this, and why? We already have technology that can produce devastating bio-weapons, why need ones that shuffle around and can be easily shot at?
There is no need for machetes and guns - on the off chance you may want to keep one of the guns, but the chances are so small that keeping an arsenal in the bedroom.
Okay, I'm going to go way out on a limb and suggest that perhaps you didn't look at the date on the first article.Qayin post=18.68039.628096 said:
For the second, note the term "Tests show they are perfectly normal, with no brain damage." Maybe I'm an old cynic, but that's telling me the test subjects were perfectly normal, with no brain damage. A creature that was killed and revived in this manner would not be a zombie any more than a person who "dies" and is resuscitated with electroshock and/or adrenaline. Even a person who suffered brain damage - and some sorts of brain damage can cause extreme violence as well as dementia and impaired motor skills, perhaps mimicking a zombie to some extent - in being resuscitated would still be a human - a dangerous, severely retarded human, perhaps, but still a human created in G-d's image.
As to the third, that's been around for decades. A animated dog head isn't a zombie, it's just a poor mutilated creature demonstrating that neurons die rather slowly. The intention (other than perhaps to perpetrate a fraud) of these experiments is not to create zombies, but rather to restore life after a longer period of interruption.
Nothing wrong with playing "What-if" games, but if some kid believes this stuff and ends up murdering some poor retarded person thinking he is a zombie - well, that's a bad thing.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, but good points on the vampire and werewolf slants, Quayin. Like zombies, these things have to have had some slight historical basis in fact to become legends, and no doubt some poor slobs throughout the ages have been killed for being vampires, werewolves, and zombies.
Qayin, that first link is literally a joke, the second is preservation or cryogenics. The third is a little more disturbing but I have been part of a group of people analyzing the movie and technique(I was more on the movie side of it) and we came to the conclusion that the movie was not doing what they claimed. The movements of the severed head were beyond those that could be done by a head in such a state. IF they did get it to work and IF the technique was real, the dog head would be in an excruciating amount of pain, so much so that whatever medicine they had flowing through the tubes to keep it from feeling that pain would dull the senses so much that it would not be able to smell or feel the citric acid they put on the noise for it to lick.
But this isn't a debate about mad russians, so lets not make it one. It is also not providing evidence to zombies, just being able to keep a head functioning while detached.
Kiltman
P.S. I do not recommend watching the movie to anybody, it is horrible quality, very hard to find, and boring. Try "Night of the Living Dead" if you are looking for a on topic movie.
But this isn't a debate about mad russians, so lets not make it one. It is also not providing evidence to zombies, just being able to keep a head functioning while detached.
Kiltman
P.S. I do not recommend watching the movie to anybody, it is horrible quality, very hard to find, and boring. Try "Night of the Living Dead" if you are looking for a on topic movie.
Hey, I wasn't saying that they were recent - I did say the third was from the 1940's after all -_-
The third was just a reference point really, to show that this is not the first time it has been attempted.
I am not saying it is likely, I am just showing that in some cases the dead have been reanimated, I didn't say the sources were recent, but they are confirmed, which is why I'm not, say, posting a recent sighting of a zombie in Calcutta, which seems to have obviously happened, yet no one has any information on or has actually seen themselves.
So yes, the most recent of those sources happened a couple years back, but I was just trying to show that it is not only possible to reanimate the dead but that it has already happened.
The definition of zombie, I believe, does not include idiotic - I believe that any reanimated corpse could be classified as a zombie, they don't have to shuffle, limp and eat brains to fit the quota; if anything they'd be more like the 28 days later style, with more intelligence but a lot of rage I imagine.
Hahah I just realised what people were saying - yeah, okay, I drew a blank on the date there, I cant believe I didn't see that...okay, hands up on that one; uber brainfart.
The third was just a reference point really, to show that this is not the first time it has been attempted.
I am not saying it is likely, I am just showing that in some cases the dead have been reanimated, I didn't say the sources were recent, but they are confirmed, which is why I'm not, say, posting a recent sighting of a zombie in Calcutta, which seems to have obviously happened, yet no one has any information on or has actually seen themselves.
So yes, the most recent of those sources happened a couple years back, but I was just trying to show that it is not only possible to reanimate the dead but that it has already happened.
The definition of zombie, I believe, does not include idiotic - I believe that any reanimated corpse could be classified as a zombie, they don't have to shuffle, limp and eat brains to fit the quota; if anything they'd be more like the 28 days later style, with more intelligence but a lot of rage I imagine.
Hahah I just realised what people were saying - yeah, okay, I drew a blank on the date there, I cant believe I didn't see that...okay, hands up on that one; uber brainfart.
Note that anyone of you trying to convince me to believe Zombies don't exist is either a nut or a shrink. I will not stop beleving but I hope something happens to sway others to believe liek some of us. But I hope there will never be a class 4 outbreak. Class 3 would still be awesome. Some people like me and kiltman are too stubborn to change our minds without indefinate proof.
More to be posted soon
xoxo
More to be posted soon
xoxo
Just out of curiousity, could you tell us which of us are nuts and which are shrinks?Scarletmarine post=18.68039.629273 said:
I'm hoping I'm a shrink - they earn way more money than nuts. But then nuts have more fun...
It would be awesome if thousands of people loose their lives? You want thousands to die so that you can win a fight on the internet. That is what you are saying?
If you are right, why would you possibly want a zombie breakout to occur? Why would you even want zombies to exist? There is enough death, violence, and danger in the world, why would you want there to be more?
Kiltman
If you are right, why would you possibly want a zombie breakout to occur? Why would you even want zombies to exist? There is enough death, violence, and danger in the world, why would you want there to be more?
Kiltman
Sounds Insane when you hear it but maybe the world needs something to come together for. Why fight another country when there's a bigger threat. It wouldn't be us vs us anymore it would be us vs them. We need something big enough to bring us to fight for something we forgot long ago. Bad members of society will fight and kill for something more.kiltmanfortywo post=18.68039.629704 said:
We can open our eyes to how unfit and how much we rely on tech.
A class 3 outbreak is horrible but the media can't cover it up.
Look at the big picture. It's all for the greater good. Maybe it could even help humans bring back the other 4 senses to the level we rely on sight. If we don't then work together and still refuse to then you must ask yourself this.
Are we then really worth saving?
Without working together we would surcome to the invaders and it would reach a class 4.
So, before you judge me for wanting a zombie outbreak, think about the greater good it could do. Plus it's not really a matter of if it happens it's more of a matter of when. If you can't look to the bright side then what's there keeping you going?
xoxo