Unnecessary weapons in games.

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RuralGamer

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Jan 1, 2011
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I was playing Stalker Call of Pripyat last night when I came to the realisation that there are a large number of weapons in games I never actually use.

In CoP, I never use any 9x18mm or 9x19mm pistols at all, ever, under any circumstances. There really doesn't seem much point, mainly because the .45 ACP-firing handguns have a far better selection; two can be silenced and modified for full-auto and all do more damage and generally are pretty accurate, handle well, have decent magazine capacities and are available fairly early on; once you can scratch together 3,500 rubles (fairly easily too), you can get the unique .45 pistols from Nimble, thus also rendering the others useless too. In fact the only reason I really ever pick-up 9mm ammo (both kinds) is to sell, because I feel there is no real need for it.

Having thought about it, I have noticed this in other games as well;

Fallout 3 - Chinese pistol and the .32 revolver; you start with a 10mm which is more powerful and has a larger capacity magazine.

Mass Effect 2 - If you get the weapon DLC packs, they render the starting shotgun, sniper rifle and pistol pointless.

Fallout: New Vegas - The 9mm pistol and SMG; you can get a 10mm pistol outside Goodsprings which has a ton of ammo for it too.

Oblivion - Iron weapons and armour; you get a steel shortsword basically as your first weapon and immediately out of the sewer, you can get a full suit of steel armour and other weapons.

Farcry 2 - As soon as you get into the sandbox proper, the initial tier weapons become pretty obsolete; the pump-action is pointless because if you save your diamonds and do some arms dealer missions, you can get the SPAS-12 fairly quickly (not entirely sure if its in the first region, please correct me if I'm wrong; long time since I played it). The G3 is a pointless acquisition after the tutorial section because the AK-47 is fairly quickly available and considerably better. Same goes for the Springfield, because a few missions for the dealer later you can get the Dragunov. Pistols too feel pretty pointless, until you acquire the Desert Eagle, because the Mac is fairly decent for a sidearm once you have the upgrades and that slot has more useful stuff for it.

Dragon Age - Darkspawn weapons.

In summary, its often far too easy to get (or start with) superior alternatives to certain weapons in games that render some weapons (and armour occasionally too) pointless to have available to you. I feel in some ways that that is a pity, because someone on the game's development team spent a lot of time designing that weapon and another spent a lot of time making it into a physical object in the game. I thought the Chinese pistol looked really cool, but was disappointed by how pointless it was.

What do you folks think and what have you found to be the case?

Edit: What I am saying is why are weapons often made available at the same time, or ever so slightly later than one another, yet one is clearly better. Why was some poor designer made to make it if players are never going to want to use it and subconciously appreciate their work. I think I have misrepresented what I intended to say; there should be a better choice in games and one weapon or a group of weapons shouldn't be so much better than others.
 

SomeLameStuff

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Modern Warfare 2: Guns.

Everyone runs around with knives after all. [sub]Hur hur hur I make funny![/sub][sub][sub]Yes I'm not being serious in case you couldn't tell.[/sub][/sub]

Hitman: The shotgun, submachine gun, and assault rifle. Though they are nice if you decide to go on a killing spree.
 

theredjay

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Personally, I prefer melee weapons. Not exactly that there's too many weapons, but I don't see the point in the excessive number of ranged weapons... That's just me, I fight melee in real life. :D
 

mindlesspuppet

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Mass Effect: Anything but the pistols.
Mass Effect 2: Anything but the sniper rifle.
Bioshock: Anything but the shotgun and crossbow.
The Witcher: All the weapons that couldn't be used with witcher fighting styles, except the torch.
Oblivion: Everything. Seriously. I wanted to do the whole sword thing, tried multiple times. Fists are just better.
Quake II & 3: The railgun, why would anyone use this over the rocket launcher.... just kidding by the way, god I miss the rocket vs. rail days.
 

Catfood220

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The disk launcher gun in Vanquish always struck me as completely pointless, I just never used it as it doesn't seem to be do a lot against the enemy and I quickly swapped it out for something else.
 

RuralGamer

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SomeLameStuff said:
Modern Warfare 2: Guns.

Everyone runs around with knives after all. [sub]Hur hur hur I make funny![/sub][sub][sub]Yes I'm not being serious in case you couldn't tell.[/sub][/sub]

Hitman: The shotgun, submachine gun, and assault rifle. Though they are nice if you decide to go on a killing spree.
I agree on the knives issue on CoD; the whole 'lunge, stab, instakill' thing is a bit annoying and although not a Hitman player, my firend has mentioned the pointlessness of weapons you can't conceal.
 

RuralGamer

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Over lunch I thought up a few others;

Unarmed weapons in Fallout 3 - there are only like 3 and they aren't that outstanding to warrant use.
Stalker games - the AK-74U; why would you want a smaller assault rifle if it is inaccurate and recoils like a jack in the box?
 

Bling1907

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Most of the weapons I don't even know it's name in Metal Gear Solid 4. Tranquilizer, .45, AK and i'm done.
 

RuralGamer

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Cyberjester said:
You used DLC to say you shouldn't use vanilla weapons?

You're not worth a reply till you get some sense into you. DLC is _always_ better than vanilla weapons, and not everyone goes and buys the DLC straight up.

I'll use Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days as an example. Bought the game, had some fun, got into the multiplayer. Worked my way up the weapon unlock list, was going alright. Then Steam sales came out and I got one of the weapon packs.


Daaaaamn. The guns are so stupidly powerful.. It's like, combine the best sniper with the best assault rifle, drop the zoom a little to pretend you're balancing then reduce recoil to balance the dropped zoom and that's one of the guns. And DLC is _always_ like that.

But since I'm having a go, may as well respond by showing you something else you are either ignorant of or just plain ignored.


mindlesspuppet said:
Quake II & 3: The railgun, why would anyone use this over the rocket launcher.... just kidding by the way, god I miss the rocket vs. rail days.
The above is the last point in a post by mindlesspuppet, and I feel illustrates my point well.

Playstyle, will always decide what weapon is the best for you. Rocket has splash damage, if in multiplayer, being able to take out 3 people instead of one is awesome.

If you like lots of ammo, then the 9mm pistol in Stalker is a great gun. Simply because you are incapable of running out of ammo given the amount of 9mm lying around. Or in your post.

Don said:
Mac is fairly decent for a sidearm once you have the upgrades and that slot has more useful stuff for it.
Once you have the upgrades for it. Before that, there's quite a few better options.

Think your post through, take a second to think why those guns are in there, then games will make more sense. If you need a reminder: DLC>Vanilla; Playstyle, playstyle, playstyle; Late game != early game.
I disagree, although not entirely; the DLC weapons in Point Lookout for Fallout 3 and those for Farcry 2 weren't better at all. To be honest, in Fallout 3 terms, nothing from Point Lookout, The Pitt or Mothership Zeta was worthwhile getting the DLCs for, although I agree that DLC have a problem of often making games easier, rather than more varied; Operation Anchorage should have some sort of level restriction on it because the Winterised T-51b suit is ridiculous.

Also in Call of Pripyat, I find that .45 ammo is pretty plentiful and because of its better power and penetration, you don't use it up as quickly. However I will admit that in Shadow of Chernobyl, the Makarov better because you have little access to 9x19mm Parabellum or .45 for a considerable portion of the game.

I'm sorry if I've misrepresented what I meant to say, but what I was meaning was that there are often better weapons in terms of stats available straight up; i.e. the 10mm pistol in Fallout 3; why would you need the Chinese pistol, which uses the same ammo, but is worse?

Edit: and in terms of Farcry 2 - the pistols (except the Desert Eagle) need to also be upgraded to be of much use; most people will use their assault rifles or shotguns at any range, so you better else you'll die; the Makarov takes far too many rounds to kill, so what's the point was my intended message.
 

Kiju

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So...you're saying we should only get one weapon of each type?

It's called "choice". People like to have choices, even if some of them seem superfluous. For instance, people seem to rave about some weapon or other because it's the "Best" in it's given type...but I don't use it because I don't like it, so I use a gun that I like.

That's all it is...giving players the option of having different guns that serve the same means. Some function different than others, some are just for aesthetics, it's all up to the player.
 

Ultress

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Anything that wasn't the pistol in The Darkness, I loved that game but most of the guns felt the same and i was good with the pistol.


Also the little sickle in Ninja Gaiden 2, the lycanthropes you fought right after getting laugh it off and you get the much better Eclipse Scythe soon after.
 

Adecristo

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May 20, 2010
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Halo 1: Everything but the pistol and fuel rod gun.
Also, I never considered alien weapons (forgot their name) in Borderlands useful.
 

RuralGamer

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Kiju said:
So...you're saying we should only get one weapon of each type?

It's called "choice". People like to have choices, even if some of them seem superfluous. For instance, people seem to rave about some weapon or other because it's the "Best" in it's given type...but I don't use it because I don't like it, so I use a gun that I like.

That's all it is...giving players the option of having different guns that serve the same means. Some function different than others, some are just for aesthetics, it's all up to the player.
No what I mean is that there are weapons that do EXACTLY the same job; i.e. Chinese pistol and 10mm pistol in Fallout 3, but one is better than others and just as easily available, so why was the other put in the game? In contrast, there is a good selection of handguns in in Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, most of which do the same job pretty much to the same effect; there you can chose you favourite without some being grossly better than others, yet for the same purpose. Personally I use the Mk 23 whilst my friend uses the 92FS; he likes the larger capacity, I prefer the slightly more power; both weapons have their advantages, yet neither is clearly superior. Fallout 3 - the Chinese pistol has a smaller magazine, does less damage and (I think, if I remember rightly) a longer reload time.
 

Triangulon

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Half-life: The Gluon Gun. Uses ammo far to quickly and the Gauss Gun is far more adaptable.
 

RuralGamer

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RAKtheUndead said:
Talking about the Fallout series, Fallout and Fallout 2 had quite a few is full of weapons which were pretty much redundant.

Apart from the obvious joke weapon in the form of the Red Ryder BB Gun, you had pretty much all of the throwing weapons, Fallout 2's Switchblade and Wrench, the Pipe Rifle, the Desert Eagle .44, the 14mm Pistol, the 9mm Mauser, Fallout 2's Sawed-Off Shotgun and Tommy Gun and anything firing a laser. Then, there are the weapons which become obsolete as the game goes on, including the 10mm Pistol, Minigun and the Light Support Weapon.
I understand why in games such as Fallout, there is a progression of weapons, but yeah, there shouldn't be certain weapons that just don't work as well, period. I remember the KOTOR games had a lot of weapons that only started appearing as the game progressed, yet were of little value because something from earlier in the game was just so much better.

Edit: To further your point, the throwing weapons in New Vegas are still pretty redundant as well; they do the same, if not less damage and you lose them in the process.
 

itf cho

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Well, I just finished New Vegas a couple of weeks ago; and while, you're right that you can get a 10mm pistol fairly quickly, you don't come across a lot of them. I doubt that early in the game you'd be able to get keep the 10mm pistol repaired if you used it as your main weapon.

However, I went with a Gun/Sniper build, so I rarely used any pistols at all. Maybe I'll try in a few months with a second playthrough. Being a sniper in FO:NV basically makes the 90% of the fights trivial - with the exception of those darn cazadores and vault crawling - as hardly anything would live long enough to get into effective range of shorter range weapons.
 

WolfThomas

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Hell pistols in general are useless in Stalker CoP. Seeing as you can put a big gun in both slots, you're better with a shotgun as your secondary weapon. The only time it's useful is anomaly fields and frankly if you need to fight something in an anomaly field you made some bad mistake (not scouting or clearing the area first).

I used the Eliminator a 12 round drum loaded semi-automatic shotgun with a lot of the recoil reduced through mods and it could take an NVG scope for time when you have to where a SEVA suit. Then I had Tide, the already heavily modified Vintar rifle for accurately and silently killing humans and zombies.
 

Gindil

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theredjay said:
Personally, I prefer melee weapons. Not exactly that there's too many weapons, but I don't see the point in the excessive number of ranged weapons... That's just me, I fight melee in real life. :D
So you run faster with the knife too right? :p
 

xXx5Niq3rzxXx

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The Death Star. You spend piles of resouces and time into making a planet-destoying weapon, only to have it destroyed by a 20-somthing year old man.
 

Zebag

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The uzis in Just Cause 2. I can kill just as easily with the starting pistols and it takes less ammo to do so. If I want an automatic weapon I'll use my assault rifle.