Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself


Polytron has announced that development of Fez II has been cancelled following director Phil Fish's Twitter snafu.

Being a game developer is a very stressful job, as you are constantly being subject to criticism from your fans, as well as media outlets. But Fez developer Phil Fish, who was recently attacked in a GameTrailers show called "Invisible Walls," where presenter Marcus Beer sarcastically referred to him and Jonathan Blow as "BlowFish," can't handle being scrutinized. Fish lashed out at Beer on Twitter, calling him a "middle-aged parasite," and suggesting that he kill himself. Classy.

"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere. Get used to it you middle-aged parasite. Compare your life to mine and then kill yourself. [sic]"

Fish then went on to demand a public apology from Beer for his comments. "how would you react tot his [sic] kind of shit if you were me," he said, "consider it's been going on for years now. you'd take the high road? im being attacked CONSTANTLY. and i can't fight back? ever? yeah that seems fair." Fish seems to believe that telling someone to kill themselves is on-par with being criticized about his habits.

For those of you who were looking forward to Fez II, looks like you are in for some bad news. Fish protected his Twitter account following a tweet that read, "im done. FEZ II is canceled. goodbye," and the official Polytron Twitter account [https://twitter.com/Polytron/status/361188665709436928] has now announced "It's with a heavy heart that we announce that FEZ II has been cancelled and is no longer in development. We apologize for the disappointment."

"there's not a day that goes by i don't fantasize about leaving [twitter]. but that would only make you happy, right? i don't want to have to get off twitter," Fish continued, "i love twitter. but it also invites SO MUCH UGLINESS into my life." This is a statement that I'm sure rings true for many others who have made career-ruining blunders via twitter, such as everyone's favorite Microsoft bigmouth, Adam Orth [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123206-Adam-Orth-Resigns-Following-Always-Online-Twitter-Comments].

Source: The Examiner [https://twitter.com/PHIL_FISH]

Image: Giant Bomb [http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/1100-4275/]

Update: Phil Fish has commented on the recent cancellation of Fez II, saying:

"To be clear, I'm not cancelling Fez II because some boorish fuck said something stupid, I'm doing it to get out of games. And I'm getting out of games because I choose not to put up with this abuse anymore."

Source: Twitter (Imgur) [http://i.imgur.com/la84I7s.jpg]

Permalink
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
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Steven Bogos said:
"im being attacked CONSTANTLY. and i can't fight back? ever? yeah that seems fair."
Maybe if he wasn't such a **** he wouldn't have to fight back.

Honestly, the way he acts, he's surprised that he gets shit? He gives people no reason to believe he's not a giant prick.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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If you are a public figure of any sort the best thing you can do to make your life easier is stay as far away from Twitter as humanly possible. Being in the public eye and having an unfiltered means of instantly communicating with potentially millions of people is nothing if not a recipe for disaster.
 

Eric the Orange

Gone Gonzo
Apr 29, 2008
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This is the end (hopefully) of a long time of Fish being a dick on twitter. Seriously this has been going on for a long time before this. Seems to be pretty common problem for some creative types that they cannot take criticism of there work. At least those that don't have corporate over lords to keep them quiet. It generally ends with this "take my ball and go home" approach.
 

Vie

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I've barely heard of the guy and I already want to slap him about the head and tell him to grow up.

That's never a good sign.
 

Ishal

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hazabaza1 said:
Steven Bogos said:
"im being attacked CONSTANTLY. and i can't fight back? ever? yeah that seems fair."
Maybe if he wasn't such a **** he wouldn't have to fight back.

Honestly, the way he acts, he's surprised that he gets shit? He gives people no reason to believe he's not a giant prick.
The man either seems to be a complete jackhole, or a complete jackhole that is possibly suffering from bipolar disorder. Honestly reading some is hies previous rants on twitter, I expect outbursts like his from a 14-16 boy, not from a successful indie dev.

I thought these indie guys were supposed to be all chill and artsy. Yeah, he gets shit about stuff, but so does everybody else. He isn't special and you don't go around on social media sites saying those things this day and age w/o consequences.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Invisible Walls is still going?!

Man!

OT: The way people behave on Twitter sure is in the name, isn't it?
 

Ghonzor

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So his solution is to act like a six year-old? Yeah, that certainly solves the problem. Cancelling development of a game that many people were looking forward to, myself included, will only invite more hate from the rage-centric Internet and add credence to the japes people have been making toward you. You have absolutely no ground to stand on this time Fish.
 

Robot Number V

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I've never heard of this guy before, but by his quotes in this article alone, he sounds like a big angry man-baby. The fact that he has the spelling and grammar skills of a 6 year old is not helping.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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And Fez 2 was gunna have Blackjack and Hookers, but now forget Fez 2 and the Blackjack.
You should boycott twitter harder
Nerd.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Super Not Cosmo said:
If you are a public figure of any sort the best thing you can do to make your life easier is stay as far away from Twitter as humanly possible. Being in the public eye and having an unfiltered means of instantly communicating with potentially millions of people is nothing if not a recipe for disaster.
a friend of mine actually ran some small classes for people who will be unnamed in the public eye about how to use twitter. there is so much to be aware of with it from being angry and lashing out like this through to not taking and posting photos of your hotel room especially with views out of the window until you have booked out of that room due to the possibility of the hotel and floor being identified.

yes its easier not to use twitter and frankly probably safer too but its a way to have that personal connection with people

all that said. stupid, stupid man saying that publically. lashing out is one thing telling someone he should do that is something else entirely
 

Starnerf

The X makes it sound cool
Jun 26, 2008
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Nice Futurama reference, but I think what's interesting about him using that quote is that in that episode Bender sacrificed his body in pursuit of money, but then realized that being a head wasn't all it was cracked up to be and the sacrifice wasn't worth it in the end. Mostly because Richard Nixon might buy it and use an odd loophole in the constitution to run for president of Earth. And nobody wants that.
 

Riobux

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Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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Wow, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. I mean, he does realize the financial implications of cancelling a game based on grade school play ground logic right? If he can't through his haze of seething rage then he will later and probably quietly resume development.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Eric the Orange said:
This is the end (hopefully) of a long time of Fish being a dick on twitter. Seriously this has been going on for a long time before this. Seems to be pretty common problem for some creative types that they cannot take criticism of there work. At least those that don't have corporate over lords to keep them quiet. It generally ends with this "take my ball and go home" approach.
So someone calling him "Blowfish" is "Criticism of his work"?

Don't fucking think so.

Fish was out of line certainly. But the other guy sounds like a grade-a juvenile asshole as well. This is an example of two people who should've been the better man, and yet neither of them were.
 

AJey

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Thank fucking god. Game industry doesn't need tools like Fish. How can you enter an industry that is always heavily scrutinized unprepared? There will always be people whom will not like your work or whom might even hate it, but that's the basic reality of our industry. I thought adults were supposed to handle things maturely, not throwing anger tantrums and "rage-quitting" their own projects. This is kindergarten stuff; thank god another child was expelled.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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AJey said:
Thank fucking god. Game industry doesn't need tools like Fish. How can you enter an industry that is always heavily scrutinized unprepared? There will always be people whom will not like your work or whom might even hate it, but that's the basic reality of our industry. I thought adults were supposed to handle things maturely, not throwing anger tantrums and "rage-quitting" their own projects. This is kindergarten stuff; thank god another child was expelled.
Rage quitting the project? The impression I got is the company cancelled their funding of the game. Assuming he is being funded by someone else.
 

Brussels

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Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
This is just as tasteless as Phil telling someone to kill themselves.

Defending Phil is kinda pointless, but does anyone look better in comparison? This started because this Marcus guy was mad about "BlowFish" not wanting to comment on Microsoft's indie changes. They saw it as rumors at the time, while he took it as fact. So all of this started as a misunderstanding on his part and he does not acknowledge it.

If you follow Phil's tweets, you see another account, now deleted, antagonizing him and saying rude crap that only made Phil madder. That's not okay.

Twitter's such a pain.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Steven Bogos said:
Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself


Polytron has announced that development of Fez II has been cancelled following director Phil Fish's Twitter snafu.

Being a game developer is a very stressful job, as you are constantly being subject to criticism from your fans, as well as media outlets. But Fez developer Phil Fish, who was recently attacked in a GameTrailers show called "Invisible Walls," where presenter Marcus Beer sarcastically referred to him as "BlowFish," obviously can't handle being scrutinized. Fish lashed out at Beer on Twitter, calling him a "middle-aged parasite," and suggesting that he kill himself. Classy.

"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere. Get used to it you middle-aged parasite. Compare your life to mine and then kill yourself."

Fish then went on to demand a public apology from Beer for his comments. "how would you react tot his kind of shit if you were me," he said, "consider it's been going on for years now. you'd take the high road? im being attacked CONSTANTLY. and i can't fight back? ever? yeah that seems fair." Fish seems to believe that telling someone to kill themselves is on-par with being criticized about his habits.

For those of you who were looking forward to Fez II, looks like you are in for some bad news. Fish protected his Twitter account following a tweet that read, "im done. FEZ II is canceled. goodbye," and the official Polytron Twitter account [https://twitter.com/Polytron/status/361188665709436928] has now announced "It's with a heavy heart that we announce that FEZ II has been cancelled and is no longer in development. We apologize for the disappointment."

"there's not a day that goes by i don't fantasize about leaving [twitter]. but that would only make you happy, right? i don't want to have to get off twitter," Fish continued, "i love twitter. but it also invites SO MUCH UGLINESS into my life." This is a statement that I'm sure rings true for many others who have made career-ruining blunders via twitter, such as everyone's favorite Microsoft bigmouth, Adam Orth [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123206-Adam-Orth-Resigns-Following-Always-Online-Twitter-Comments].

Source: The Examiner [https://twitter.com/PHIL_FISH]

Image: Giant Bomb [http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/1100-4275/]

Permalink
Ah, I love this. Seeing a game developer who made a great game, continuing to show that he is a damn child who can't handle being insulted on the internet. My seven year old brother can take better scrutiny than this 20 something ADULT.

Fish, if you read this: Grow the fuck up and act your age, kid.
 

Zeckt

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This time he went too far, and proved himself as an immature dickface and I look forward to Marcus's response. It will be BRUTAL.

Sure insulting people and blowing hot hair is cause to ignore, it's just mudslinging. But to tell someone to KILL themselves is proof that he is rotten to the core as a person. We've all said thing's we regret, but whoever tells you to kill yourself over it is not a human being. They are simply wretches.
 

CriticalMiss

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Wow, the more I hear about this guy the more I'm glad I didn't buy Fez and now I'm not going to regardless of how many arbitrary awards it has won. He comes over as nothing less than a monumental prick with a bloated ego because he has had one successful game. And if you can't stand people criticising your work, maybe consider doing something that doesn't have an entire sub-industry dedicated to doing just that?

He needs to get over himself.
 

Senare

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Without knowing any historical context, acting like this is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. Dick or not - if this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
 

martyrdrebel27

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I didn't play the first Fez for the sole reason that this guy redefines "douchebag". For the following millenia kids will ask their parents what douchebag means and they'll just point and say, "yeah, pretty much that." the name will be changed, and great wars will be fought over whether we should say Philbag or Fishbag. Angels will descend from the burning heavens to fight off Satan's army of Philbags. Twitter will personify as a giant blue bird, devouring the career essence from each of the Philbags, leaving only a shell a hermit crab might call home. God himself will weep at the unfortunate loss of a great and creative mind tragically stuck inside his biggest personality failure to date.

OT: Fuck that guy.
 

omega 616

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What the fuck is it with gamers and the phrase "go kill yourself"? It's so fucking juvenile, it's not like anybody actually follows that order and if they do it's never 'cos of it.

I'm going to start saying the opposite to people I argue with on the internet, "you know what, just go hug a puppy!".

Anyway, if you don't want your art being criticized, you're in the wrong profession my friend! "I want people to watch my movie and like it, if they don't they should kill themselves".

Guy seems a little insecure to me.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Is it really that hard to practice some basic self control and human decency? Honest question here.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
Indeed. Especially in Fish's case, who gets abuse more or less constantly. Doesn't matter who you are, deal with that for a year or two straight and it wears you down. At this point his patience for insults is pretty much gone, so yeah. Totally understandable to see him react this way.
 

Eric the Orange

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Akalabeth said:
Eric the Orange said:
This is the end (hopefully) of a long time of Fish being a dick on twitter. Seriously this has been going on for a long time before this. Seems to be pretty common problem for some creative types that they cannot take criticism of there work. At least those that don't have corporate over lords to keep them quiet. It generally ends with this "take my ball and go home" approach.
So someone calling him "Blowfish" is "Criticism of his work"?

Don't fucking think so.

Fish was out of line certainly. But the other guy sounds like a grade-a juvenile asshole as well. This is an example of two people who should've been the better man, and yet neither of them were.
First off I said it was common of creative types in general not this specific situation.

Second have you looked back into this situation besides what was said in this article. It was more than that. And his previous twitter rants were about more than that.
 

Somethingfake

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Awwwwwwwww ikkle baby. Fear not, oh toddler of thin skin and loud mouth, for I have in my possession the world's smallest violin! Indeed, it is so small, a microscope is required for its viewing!
 
Nov 28, 2007
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Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
Lashing out is one thing. Telling a critic to kill themselves, because he is so much better than them, though? What would he have to say for you to hold it against him?
 

Alcaste

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Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
I'll give you a moment to think about that statement. That he acted 'human'. Suicide is a pretty big deal. People DO kill themselves because bullies tell them to. Phil Fish doesn't deserve any sympathy. He's always been a melodramatic ass that lashes out at everyone. Him shutting up for a while is better for the whole industry. At least until he grows up.
 

Riobux

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Brussels said:
Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
This is just as tasteless as Phil telling someone to kill themselves.
I just don't understand what was so great about Fez, and therefore I struggle to work out what is the value of Fish beyond the "but he's a human being!" excuse.
 

mronoc

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Given the sheer amount of shit I see tossed at Phil Fish on the internet on a constant basis, this outburst is wholly understandable. Childish and irrational to be sure, but also understandable.
 

Headsprouter

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Welp, it's official, Fish is a Call of Duty gamer.

All jokes aside, I don't think I can add anything to this discussion other than my own iteration of "Wow, that guy's a douche."

Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
If he wants to steam up and lash out, he's in the wrong industry. In fact, I think any occupation that even remotely puts in him in a situation like this one is inappropriate for him. It was a sarcastic comment, a joke, even. And Fish thinks highly enough of himself to say his life is so much better than his that he should realise it and kill himself.

Not all human beings are this childish and egotistical. I think I'd have taken this comment far better than Fish did. It's a pun on his name, as far as I can see, nothing near a below-the-belt remark.
 

Andy Shandy

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Jun 7, 2010
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I didn't realise Futurama references were taken so seriously.

I will now refrain from telling anyone to bite my shiny, metal ass from now on.

Anyway, Fish quitting Twitter, at least for a while, is probably a good thing for him. He seems to get a shit ton of criticism on there, and Phil can't seem to deal with that very well. Hell, the amount of abuse he got on there would be enough to put most people off.

And to be fair, the media member wasn't exactly classy himself, in the video.

Games journalists are going to struggle though, I'm pretty sure some could probably live off the amount of shit he said that got turned into news posts.
 

PureIrony

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Aug 12, 2010
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EDIT: Y'know, this topic probably doesn't need my input. I'm just gonna indirectly delete it.

Move along here, folks; nothing to see.
 

Denamic

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Alcaste said:
Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
I'll give you a moment to think about that statement. That he acted 'human'. Suicide is a pretty big deal. People DO kill themselves because bullies tell them to. Phil Fish doesn't deserve any sympathy. He's always been a melodramatic ass that lashes out at everyone. Him shutting up for a while is better for the whole industry. At least until he grows up.
He is not a bully. If anything, he's the one getting bullied. No doubt he brought it upon himself, because he's an asshole, but even he doesn't deserve the sheer amount of constant shit he gets. When he says he's constantly getting attacked, he's really not exaggerating.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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Senare said:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
I completely agree. Ultimately, I value having one more good game developer over having one less person acting like an asshole on the internet. I can ignore assholes, I can't ignore a lack of fun games. What he's doing isn't really destructive, it's just being a jerk. I can deal with that.
 

1337mokro

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Here's how you fight back.

"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere. Get used to it because you will be reporting on my success stories for a long while more."

There you go Philly. A snarky comeback where you applaud yourself, scoff at him for being a decrepit old media parasite and basically do take the high-ground whilst still denigrating him to nothing more than someone who will be heralding your achievements.

That is how someone would react if they weren't hipster tosspot douchebags. It's best if you keep to making games and not engaging in empty exchanges of excessive insults.
 

roushutsu

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This guy's clearly having a mental breakdown. It doesn't excuse him lashing out like this and cancelling a game because of a remark, but the guy does need to get away and take some time out to clear his head.
 

MCerberus

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Complain about being called a tosspot...
by proving you are, indeed, a tosspot.
Good job!
 

sid

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Jan 22, 2013
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http://i.imgur.com/R9i47.png

I mean, it's Phil Fish. Dude's not exactly known for being stable and friendly. Yeah, he gets attacked on a pretty regular basis, but the things he says tend to warrant it. If he thinks internet satire is enough motivation for closing up shop, maybe working on the internet-centric indie game scene isn't exactly the place for him.
 

Jakabotch

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I'm going to start off by saying that a quote from Futurama being the main focus of the headline is a bit silly, in my honest opinion.

The rest of what Fish is going on about is, of course, completely and utterly moronic. I just don't think that particular line should be what this article is pointing out as ridiculous, as it's not a real threat or statement.
 

Professor Uzzy

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Love how the OP reduces Marcus Beer's relentless attack against Fish to just 'blowfish'. How about providing some better context, hmm?

No one looks good here, but presenting Marcus Beer as some innocent wronged party in this is just insane.
 

KillMeOnceMore

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I just think this is a real shame all round. Phil Fish is obviously a talented guy but he's in the wrong medium for someone of his sensitive disposition, and I think it's shameful that the medium can't accommodate someone of that disposition. I'm not excusing his actions this time and he's often done himself no favours, but he has been pushed around and hounded A LOT. And before the bedroom crusaders start judging him, I'd like them to try and imagine how they would handle even half that level of scrutiny and abuse.

I often daydream about being involved in the games industry in some writing capacity or some sort and the first obstacle that crushes it isn't my talent (or lack of), knowledge or connections, it's always "could I handle the gaming community?" because I'm really not sure I could. I wonder how many other people, maybe even with actual talent, are being put off for the same reason.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Steven Bogos said:
-snipped-

Akalabeth said:
So someone calling him "Blowfish" is "Criticism of his work"?
Phil Fish wasn't being called Blowfish. BlowFish was being used to refer to both Jonathan Blow and Phil Fish. It also, very clearly, isn't a criticism of his work.

Senare said:
Without knowing any historical context, acting like this is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. Dick or not - if this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
So... insulting someone while putting yourself up upon a pedestal, then telling them to go kill themselves, is perfectly fine with you I take it?
If I heard ANYONE talking like that, friend or not, I'd smack them down.

The moral high-ground here would of been for Fish to just shut up and think before typing. Trying to assert yourself as something superior to another, then telling them to go kill themselves after seeing how pathetic they really are, is about as low as low can be, in terms of morality and ground. In fact, I'm willing to bet Fish is currently sitting under the Mole People at this point.
 

xDarc

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Compare my life to yours and then kill yourself? That's quite an ego for someone most people have never heard of. Another big fish in a small pond.
 

Fractral

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Riobux said:
Brussels said:
Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
This is just as tasteless as Phil telling someone to kill themselves.
I just don't understand what was so great about Fez, and therefore I struggle to work out what is the value of Fish beyond the "but he's a human being!" excuse.
What have you produced? If you say that someone being a conscious human being is just an 'excuse' and their life means nothing, what would be lost if you died? People are worth more than just what they produce.
OT: So in this situation everybody is an ass? Fish loses his rag and goes overboard; somewhat understandable given that he's been insulted repeatedly by people who also should know better, and now he's paying for it by no longer being able to make his games, for whatever reason. Sad story, whatever way you look at it. I do really hope he hasn't decided to go and do something stupid in his anger/depression.
 

Lunar Templar

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So 'indie dev throws tantrum cause some guy called him a name' basically? spiffy, and not really news worthy >.> the part about Fez 2 getting canned, sure, worth a report, but the dev throwing a hissy fit cause some one called him 'blow fish', ugh ....

It'd been more worth while to write up a news story on Transformers Prime ending then reporting some assholes temper tantrum
 

Eri

The Light of Dawn
Feb 21, 2009
3,626
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0
Beer needs to fuck off. What has he contributed, exactly, to this industry? That's what I thought. At least Fish does shit.
 

Riobux

New member
Apr 15, 2009
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Fractral said:
Riobux said:
Brussels said:
Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
This is just as tasteless as Phil telling someone to kill themselves.
I just don't understand what was so great about Fez, and therefore I struggle to work out what is the value of Fish beyond the "but he's a human being!" excuse.
What have you produced? If you say that someone being a conscious human being is just an 'excuse' and their life means nothing, what would be lost if you died? People are worth more than just what they produce.
Let's be realistic: Why would you care if I got hit by a car tomorrow? Sure you may have a brief moment of "oh, it's sad he got hit by a car", but because I haven't had any significance to your life in any way you probably wouldn't care beyond five minutes. I haven't produced anything note-worthy, not in terms of physical content, social content or something mentally stimulating. Phil Fish, to me, hasn't provided me anything that has been note-worthy to me personally in any way. Therefore, if he offed himself in the near future nothing of value would be lost to me.

Although if you can name someone who has been worth a lot despite not making anything of worth in terms of physical, social or mental content, I'll admit fault.
 

Hazy

New member
Jun 29, 2008
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Eri said:
Beer needs to fuck off. What has he contributed, exactly, to this industry? That's what I thought. At least Fish does shit.
Philly Fishsticks acted like a textbook NFL diva: showboating, bragging, over-estimating his abilities and status all because he made one half-decent game that was well-received by critics. And it finally came back to bite him in the ass.

This guy fucking ridiculed people on Twitter on a daily basis, but it looks like he can't handle the taste of his own medicine.

Good riddance. This is not how a grown man is supposed to act.
 

Senare

New member
Aug 6, 2010
160
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Alcaste said:
I'll give you a moment to think about that statement. That he acted 'human'. Suicide is a pretty big deal. People DO kill themselves because bullies tell them to. Phil Fish doesn't deserve any sympathy. He's always been a melodramatic ass that lashes out at everyone. Him shutting up for a while is better for the whole industry. At least until he grows up.
thebobmaster said:
Senare said:
Lashing out is one thing. Telling a critic to kill themselves, because he is so much better than them, though? What would he have to say for you to hold it against him?
Suicide is a very big deal, yet to me it is besides the point because I perceive his tweet as just a singular attempt at being hurtful in response to a perceived attack.
I view the interchange abstractly as a verbal attack against another (perceived or actual). This is a different perspective than a logical exchange of words (content) and more an emotional exchange of intentions. Thus the exact content does not matter because to me this is about the human urge to attack back when being attacked. What content is "one step to far" would be more a matter of taste and values of the observer.

Having someone completely overcome such behaviour in all areas of life is rare; Fish's tolerance and maturity is just on a different level than what is expected of him (so a bit of personal development would do him good). Who everyone think Fish is does not really matter to me. Dick or no, it is still very human behaviour and I would not hold such behaviour against him as a human being because such behaviour is natural to me.

What would he have to say to tick me off? The answer is pretty unsatisfying actually: he would have to attack something I hold dear and push my buttons enough to lose my respect. But that would still not make me hold such behaviour against him, because then everyone else reacting the same way (in a general sense) would get the same treatment (by my estimate that would be the majority of the world population).

Hopefully that made some semblance of sense. :/
 

Sectan

New member
Aug 7, 2011
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This Fish guy needs to grow the hell up. Done. End of Story. He reduced himself to the level of a 13 year old with a mic and no parental guidance. I'm surprised he didn't start calling the critic a fag before he told him to kill himself. Plenty of people have contributed more to their field while taking more shit and have still come out on top.
 

Vaccine

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Feb 13, 2010
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Oh he's been doing this shit for ages, I remember when Fez came out on PC and when it did better on PC than Xbox Live he called people who bought a PC copy "cheap bastards" or something to that degree.

I really share no sympathy for him because of how he talks to people, but at the same time I'll miss reading the reports of him verbally abusing a large demographic of people or individuals.
I'm sure he'll be back in a few weeks.
 

PatrickXD

New member
Aug 13, 2009
977
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"You're a fucking tosspot hipster"
"Hey, fuck you, I make this shit. And you eat it."

Seems fair enough to me. Good for you, Phil Fish.
 

fix-the-spade

New member
Feb 25, 2008
8,639
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Eric the Orange said:
Seems to be pretty common problem for some creative types that they cannot take criticism of there work.
It's a problem with people full stop, but doubly so when they've invested themselves so heavily into something that criticism of that thing essentially becomes a direct criticism of the person in that person's mind.

It can be very hard to take a step back no matter how obvious it is to outsiders. Been there, not on this scale, but definitely been there.

Anyway.

Having said that, of all the people to freakout at, Marcus Beer? As in the guy who used do PR for Ubisoft then Vivendi, who has his name in the credits of things like IL2, Ghost Recon and FEAR? The guy who NBC go to for a gaming opinion? Yeah, total parasite, never had anything to do with games, not in our corner at all, I'm sure when he looks at his nice house, wife and kids he feels totally awful too.

I guess Fish is learning this the hard way, but there are people out there who are both on 'our' side and perfectly willing to criticise you and your behaviour if they feel you deserve it. He would have been better off quietly asking Beer for advice, goodness knows Fish needs someone out there with the experience and knowledge to tell him to shut up, Beer would have been just the man.
 

fix-the-spade

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Feb 25, 2008
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Hazy said:
Good riddance. This is not how a grown man is supposed to act.
That little video had me in hysterics, whoever put that music to is a genius, if it was you, you're a genius, a comedy genius.

I'm still giggling like an idiot now.
 

Hazy

New member
Jun 29, 2008
7,423
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fix-the-spade said:
Hazy said:
Good riddance. This is not how a grown man is supposed to act.
That little video had me in hysterics, whoever put that music to is a genius, if it was you, you're a genius, a comedy genius.

I'm still giggling like an idiot now.
Nah, I wish, but I can't take credit for this. I was asleep when the news broke, haha.
 

TIMESWORDSMAN

Wishes he had fewer cap letters.
Mar 7, 2008
1,040
0
0
Steven Bogos said:
Fish lashed out at Beer on Twitter
NO! Fish and Chips will never be the same without beer! How will this affect the British Economy!?

Seriously, this is sad. I recently watched the Indie Game documentary, and even under that positive light Fish seemed a nervous and unstable person, likely due to massive overwork and being slightly unhinged to begin with. I'm sad for him.

Here's hoping this all works out for everyone.
 

Mr.Mattress

Level 2 Lumberjack
Jul 17, 2009
3,646
0
0
I think this points to something that is very problematic with the industry: It needs to grow up. Both the games creator, and the game media, act like spoiled rotten children that, when they don't get their way, they decide to insult, belittle, and throw a tantrum. This whole industry needs to really grow up and end this kind of Spoiled ness. I remember when Notch went on a rampage and insult the Yogcast for something he didn't even witness personally. I remember Spoony (who was/is suffering from depression) breaking down and going on a rampage on Twitter. Now this (And apparently, Mr. Fish might also have depression). The Industry needs to grow up.
 

Piorn

New member
Dec 26, 2007
1,097
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Things like this make me wish I had pirated Fez.
But then again, that would be just as immature.
 

ninjaRiv

New member
Aug 25, 2010
986
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Wait wait wait... Someone acted like a prick on the internet? That can't be right... Can we check again? Maybe it was a mistake.

To be honest, if he's going to act like a dick he deserves silly comments like "blowfish."
 

SadisticFire

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Oct 1, 2012
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I definitely feel like the minority here, but that's me not knowing much till this. If people are going to be complete assholes to him and they expect no consequence to come to it, this seems like a consequence and *should* tell others to watch what they say. But seeing how people didn't even watch the arrest of Justin Cart ehh....
Though there were better options, neither party did the proper one.
EDIT: OH wait I read the article wrong. I thought he was being told to kill himself, the creator that is for a minor issue in their game. Never mind, he is an asshole.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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0

Eri said:
Beer needs to fuck off. What has he contributed, exactly, to this industry? That's what I thought. At least Fish does shit.
Beer called out Fish on a very pertinent point: when it comes to shilling his own game, he and Blow are more than happy to talk to the games media, and get their games as much exposure as possible. Yet when those same media types ask them for their opinion on Microsoft's indie stance, a valid enough question given how they're two of the most prominent indie developers around, all of a sudden they're too good for the media? That's bullshit. If they just wanted to give a 'no comment' that would be one thing, but to suddenly go all primadonna despite the fact that both men's success is largely owed to the games media is just ridiculous.
 

Not Lord Atkin

I'm dead inside.
Oct 25, 2008
648
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I don't much care for Beer, the guy mixes his work with his personal life way too much, often uses his show on GT to talk about his personal issues and generally treats the camera like his personal therapist. But damn, this wasn't cool.
 

fix-the-spade

New member
Feb 25, 2008
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Akalabeth said:
Fish was out of line certainly. But the other guy sounds like a grade-a juvenile asshole as well. This is an example of two people who should've been the better man, and yet neither of them were.
Worthwhile note, when he was talking about Blowfish he was talking about the collective pairing of Jonathan Blow of Braid fame and Phil Fish of Fez fame. Also, like the Blowfish, they're quite tasty but potentially lethal.

He was specifically talking about the pair's tendency to court the media at every opportunity, but immediately lash out the moment the attention they'd created didn't suit them or the coverage moved in a direction they didn't like. Whilst his delivery was typically sweary welshman the point was that 'BlowFish' have set themselves up as the self proclaimed faces of Indy Game Development. Having created that image themselves, they don't get to be surprised when the press turns to them for an opinion. As the 'faces' of an entire industry they have a duty to make that industry look good, not lash out all the time which could hurt many more people and projects than their own.

Unfortunately that seems to have sailed past Fish, who's reverted to type.
 

Colt47

New member
Oct 31, 2012
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A man insults another man for insulting him. We must all comment on this! =p
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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mronoc said:
Given the sheer amount of shit I see tossed at Phil Fish on the internet on a constant basis, this outburst is wholly understandable. Childish and irrational to be sure, but also understandable.
Agreed, holy shit the guy is abused on a daily basis. No wonder he's being a dick.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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0
fix-the-spade said:
Worthwhile note, when he was talking about Blowfish he was talking about the collective pairing of Jonathan Blow of Braid fame and Phil Fish of Fez fame. Also, like the Blowfish, they're quite tasty but potentially lethal.

He was specifically talking about the pair's tendency to court the media at every opportunity, but immediately lash out the moment the attention they'd created didn't suit them or the coverage moved in a direction they didn't like. Whilst his delivery was typically sweary welshman the point was that 'BlowFish' have set themselves up as the self proclaimed faces of Indy Game Development. Having created that image themselves, they don't get to be surprised when the press turns to them for an opinion. As the 'faces' of an entire industry they have a duty to make that industry look good, not lash out all the time which could hurt many more people and projects than their own.

Unfortunately that seems to have sailed past Fish, who's reverted to type.
Not sure how "self-proclaimed" they are. Both of them feature prominently in Indie Game: The Movie. A project which itself has just seen a recent re-release with additional content. Whether they volunteered to participate or whether they were approached by the filmmakers I don't know but that project no doubt elevated their exposure.

No one in the documentary struck me as particularly unlikeable, though some of their views did seem a bit jaded particularly in reference to AAA game development.
 

The_Echo

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Mar 18, 2009
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I'm not up to speed with Fish's PR. But what I do know (or am led to believe) is that he generally acts like an unlikable ****.

Something tells me if that didn't happen, Twitter wouldn't bring "so much ugliness" into his life.

Telling someone to kill themselves (after insulting and lording over them, no less), then cancelling your game after people got mad at you? Christ, might as well be middle school.
 

Fin Morrison

New member
Mar 29, 2011
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I'm really sad that fez 2 got cancelled, i was really looking forward too it. also, has anyone ever considered the possibility the Phil might actually be doing i this on purpose? I mean his twitter profile pic is bleeding Andy Kaufman!
 

WanderingFool

New member
Apr 9, 2009
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
...
...
...
...
...
...
*20 minutes later)*

...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahaha...

Oh god... that is awesome...
 

Formica Archonis

Anonymous Source
Nov 13, 2009
2,312
0
0
Dogstile said:
mronoc said:
Given the sheer amount of shit I see tossed at Phil Fish on the internet on a constant basis, this outburst is wholly understandable. Childish and irrational to be sure, but also understandable.
Agreed, holy shit the guy is abused on a daily basis. No wonder he's being a dick.
If he wasn't known for blowing up so easily and dishing it out when he can't take it, then no one would bug him. People are pricks to be sure, but he made himself a hornet's nest for the world to poke. When someone's trying to get a rise out of you, you never give them the joy of knowing they succeeded.

Then he didn't have the sense to either get out of Twitter or to better control his emotions. Emotional problems or not, he wasn't chained to his Twitter feed. He stayed in the cesspit and then complained about being neck-deep in crap.

There's indie devs who don't have to put up with half of what he had because they can control if not themselves then at least their responses. There's also people in gaming hated far more than him that have a far easier time of it because they're smart enough to do things like disable comments on their blogs and not throw themselves into the unmoderated messes of Twitter et al.
 

Omegatronacles

Guardian Of Forever
Oct 15, 2009
731
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Riobux said:
*SNIP*

Let's be realistic: Why would you care if I got hit by a car tomorrow? Sure you may have a brief moment of "oh, it's sad he got hit by a car", but because I haven't had any significance to your life in any way you probably wouldn't care beyond five minutes. I haven't produced anything note-worthy, not in terms of physical content, social content or something mentally stimulating. Phil Fish, to me, hasn't provided me anything that has been note-worthy to me personally in any way. Therefore, if he offed himself in the near future nothing of value would be lost to me.

Although if you can name someone who has been worth a lot despite not making anything of worth in terms of physical, social or mental content, I'll admit fault.
You are correct, if you got hit by a car tomorrow, I would not lose any sleep over it, because I do not know you and until this point you have not crossed my life today.

But at the same time, I do not spend my time going "If Riobux dies, nothing has been lost", because that's a stupid statement, and it implies that you have no value to anyone in this world.

If there is at least one person who feels the world is better due to your time on it, you have produced value and don't deserve to have your entire life dismissed in 8 words.
 

Ralfarius

New member
Nov 20, 2009
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Not nearly enough people chiming in on recognizing a well-placed Futurama quote.

That is the truly disappointing aspect of this entire debacle.
 

Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
1,739
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0
I would give my "Personality is paramount in the game industry" and "Being an independent game developer does not separate you from the industry" speeches, but at this point it like beating a dead horse as it pertains to Fish.
 

thespyisdead

New member
Jan 25, 2010
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this is my biggest fear if i ever become a recognized game dev: me losing my temper and lashing out at every single thing
 

fwiffo

New member
Sep 12, 2011
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Bummer, was looking forward to fez 2. Recently played the first one, and thought it was pretty great.

Some people aren't made for social media.

best of luck to him in the future.
 

ZZoMBiE13

Ate My Neighbors
Oct 10, 2007
1,908
0
0
Eri said:
Beer needs to fuck off.
Boy do I ever agree with that part. Not a fan of Fish either, but that podcast guy is as big a douche as I've ever seen holding a microphone. "Annoyed Gamer" indeed. Should be called "Entitled Prick".

But whatever. Neither of them come out of this one looking like anything more than idiot man-children, crying for attention.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Jan 28, 2013
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So when a shitstorm starts brewing on Planet of the Arseholes, in which one do you duck for cover?

At least it would have been that way if it wasn't for that 'Fuck it, no Fez 2 for you' comment from Phil. Not that I care that much for a Fez sequel, but come on... That just turned from two stupid toddlers having a shit-flinging match to one toddler screaming 'I hate EVERYONE! I'm taking my cool toys home with me now!'

So, people here have been pointing out that he both gives and gets a lot of shit from the likes of the media and twitter, with an emphasis on not being able to take his own medicine. Regardless of who's in the right or wrong here, everyone stinks and has slightly less (objectively) nice things in the world.
 

Impluse_101

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Jun 25, 2009
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Agayek said:
Is it really that hard to practice some basic self control and human decency? Honest question here.
This.
Just This.
I have nothing more to say.
So have a picture of something cute to hopefully pause you for two seconds.
 

Daverson

New member
Nov 17, 2009
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In my experience, the media usually deserve this sort of thing.

I'd comment on the irony of saying something like that in response to a news story, but I feel the fact that two grown men engaging in one of those cartoon slapping battles being "news" more or less proves my point.
 

DarkhoIlow

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Dec 31, 2009
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This is a loss to the fans of Fez and to those that were looking forward to the sequel. But from what I've read in the past, he had a very awful attitude and I'm sorry for those who have worked with him on the game may be jobless because of his outburst and arguments on twitter.

Giving a single person so much power (the power of canceling his game) upsets me. He is being very selfish in my eyes.
 

Hero of Lime

Staaay Fresh!
Jun 3, 2013
3,114
0
0
I really can't wait for Marcus's response, while I don't always agree with Marcus on gaming issues, I certainly like him way more personally than that Mr. Fish. That guy sounds so full of himself it's ridiculous.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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0
Senare said:
Without knowing any historical context, acting like this is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. Dick or not - if this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
From what I read, he got called a name. Kids get called names everyday in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL and you don't see them going, "GO FUCK AND KILL YOURSELF, WAAAAAAAAH" like Fish did.

When a grown adult acts more like a child that an actual kid does, it is sad.

Also, he has no excuse. None. People in this industry all have haters. Do you think Mike Morhime or Gabe Newell acts this way when someone insults them? God no. He needs to grow up.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
6,374
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0
Ishal said:
I thought these indie guys were supposed to be all chill and artsy. Yeah, he gets shit about stuff, but so does everybody else. He isn't special and you don't go around on social media sites saying those things this day and age w/o consequences.
Indie devs seem to be the most prone to lashing out at people who criticize them or their projects, actually. Mostly because, unlike AAA-devs (or at the very least publisher-funded devs) they're generally a small team pumping all of their heart and soul into a project and rarely doing it just for the paycheck (not to say the bigger teams only do it for the paycheck, but there's more lost in the translation when the team is 200 people instead of five).

OT: Cancelling the game seems kinda like an overreaction to me. But hey, it's his prerogative.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
5,178
0
0
Impluse_101 said:
I have nothing more to say.
So have a picture of something cute to hopefully pause you for two seconds.
That pic is awesome. Good find sir and/or madam.
 

barbzilla

He who speaks words from mouth!
Dec 6, 2010
1,465
0
0
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
Is his depression incredibly accurate or did you mean to say acute? I am with you though, I would hope he wouldn't follow his own advice here.

OT: When you tend to overreact and do so publicly, why would you not expect rude comments designed to illicit such reactions? I can understand that he isn't the one starting it, and that being called out for his comment when nobody was calling out the ones who were "attacking" him, but this is effectively career suicide when you give in to these urges to respond like this. I hope he learns a valuable lesson from this experience, but somehow I doubt it.
 

Xan Krieger

Completely insane
Feb 11, 2009
2,918
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0
Ralfarius said:
Not nearly enough people chiming in on recognizing a well-placed Futurama quote.

That is the truly disappointing aspect of this entire debacle.
Finally, you're the first person I saw to recognize it. I just spent 10 minutes looking for a video of Bender saying it, sadly this best of bender video doesn't have it.

OT: Having seen the guy's previous tweets he's beyond arrogant so this doesn't surprise me as much as when I first read it.
 

RaikuFA

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Jun 12, 2009
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Dogstile said:
mronoc said:
Given the sheer amount of shit I see tossed at Phil Fish on the internet on a constant basis, this outburst is wholly understandable. Childish and irrational to be sure, but also understandable.
Agreed, holy shit the guy is abused on a daily basis. No wonder he's being a dick.
To be fair he did start it with that comment on japanese games, then when people tried to prove him wrong, he responded very harshly and disapropriate.

Go watch that Jimquisition about Phil Fish, there's one on there where some guy says that hes talking smack about games yet hasn't released one(this was before FEZ was released) and he responds with "suck my dick. choke on it" because he won an award based off of his game.

EDIT: Found the tweet.

 

chikusho

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Jun 14, 2011
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This _cannot_ be the reason Fez 2 is cancelled.

I mean, not that I care, but isn't polytron interactive independently published?
It's not like anyone important would care about this guy saying some shitty thing on twitter and cancel the partnership, right? Because that would be the real story, imo.
 

zxvcasdfqwerzxcv

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Nov 19, 2009
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Having watched Indie Game The Movie, it is fairly clear that Fish is quite a troubled man. He's been placed (or perhaps, has placed himself) in a very stressful position and he doesn't cope with stress well. Fez was a brilliant game, and Fish is an amazing developer. He would do well to get someone else to do all his PR so he doesn't need to speak at or listen to all the bullshit he (undeservedly) receives. Beer has shown a very unprofessional attitude by getting personal in the first place. He had the gall to call for a boycott of coverage of games by Fish and Jonathan Blow because they neglect answering media questions. Sounds like another completely useless journalist - exactly what the industry doesn't need!
 

Callate

New member
Dec 5, 2008
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To talk of "career ending blunders" sounds a little too, ahem, hopeful on the part of the author?

Lashing out like this is surely not classy. Demanding an apology after lashing out suggests a lack of self-reflection that borders on mental illness. But he does have a point that it doesn't paint anyone in glory to suggest that their status as a "critic" or "satirist" renders them above criticism or blowback for their own comments, however badly Fish might have said so.

If the target of his ire wants to get outraged, he's welcome to it. I'm not interested in joining a torch-bearing mob over this one; the indignation seems badly misplaced.
 

Vigormortis

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Nov 21, 2007
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Not going to defend Mr. Fishs comments, even though I think people are blowing it WAAAAAY out of proportion. Especially when one realizes that the latter part of his tweet was a Futurama reference and therefore a joke.

But this is the internet, after all. And the only sense of humor people have 'round here is one that involves either lol-cats or picking on people and being cruel. So...oh well.

Anyway, while I'm not defending Fishs tweet, I am going to agree with him and a few others in saying that Mr. Beer can fuck right off. His remarks towards Phil Fish and Johnathan Blow were unwarranted, needlessly confrontational, unceremoniously personal, and completely tasteless. The guy is a colossal prick and deserves as equal a level of ire and ridicule as Phil Fish is receiving.

Seriously....fuck Marcus Beer. What a twat.
 

V8 Ninja

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May 15, 2010
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Again, throw this onto the list of why nobody should use Twitter.

You know, I can kind-of get why Phil Fish would be this upset. He wanted to make a calm, lively, and pretty puzzle game but ended up going through difficult legal hoops and near-constant criticism that still persists to this day. However, he REALLY needs to take some stress management classes. Not only was the first offense going onto the internet, but believing and justifying his statements about telling people to kill themselves was one of the worst things he could have done. I hope that Phil Fish will be able to get his head in a more stable place before he continues using Twitter again.
 

CardinalPiggles

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Jun 24, 2010
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If someone called me a tosspot I'd be pretty pissed off too. And in public? In front of an audience? Phil Fish was not only scrutinised, he was ridiculed and personally attacked verbally.

Of course, the article doesn't show that very well because the writer is clearly biased.

I'm not saying Phil Fish is a stand up guy, not even close. And maybe he did cross the line? But that line was crossed beforehand. He had ample motivation for what he said through no fault of his own as far as I can tell.
 

Benpasko

New member
Jul 3, 2011
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He wasn't actually telling them to kill themselves, he was making a Futurama reference. People seem to be overreacting.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
6,374
0
0
Vigormortis said:
But this is the internet, after all. And the only sense of humor people have 'round here is one that involves either lol-cats or picking on people and being cruel. So...oh well.
It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.
 

Strain42

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This just in, Phil Fish acts like a total asshole, acts like he is above people, and then tries to justify his dickish behavior by claiming he is the victim.

Oh, it seems we have another breaking scoop. It turns out Oxygen exists.

I know Phil is in an industry where people are gonna say nasty things over the internet about him on a weirdly personal level over just a game, and I can sympathize with that to a degree. But guess what Philly-boy (dunno why I'm typing this as if he's going to read it...) You aren't special there. Anyone with even a modicum of fame is going to get their share of internet backlash just like you, in fact a lot of them probably get it way worse because you're mostly just known in gaming circles. Heck, I've been gaming my whole life and I probably wouldn't even know who Phil Fish was if he wasn't known for being such an asshole. Literally how I heard about him and his game was one of many articles where he insulted someone over some criticism.

Imagine if one of the Kardashians (Kim? Is one of them Kim? Lets go with Kim) told people to fuck off and kill themselves and then demand an apology every time someone said a negative thing about her? She wouldn't even have time to breathe or stare in one of her reality TV programs.

You put yourself in a position where you offer a product to the world, and guess what? That means you also opened yourself up to criticism of both the product and of yourself. If you can't handle that, maybe you should just try another career where it's illegal for people to criticize your work and your behavior.

I hear Mars needs someone to dust rocks. Maybe you could try that.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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What is it about Indie devs and turning out to be colossal twats?


Man, you're right, you really revolutionised the industry with your quirky puzzle platformer with retro-esque graphics and subversive undertones, I'm sure nobody else in the indie scene has even thought of doing such a thing.

Row row fight da powah ¬_¬
 

Axel1105

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You have to attempt to look at it from his prospective, which almost none of the posts I've read so far have tried to do (it's mostly people instinctively calling him a man-child or likewise, without much hesitation). Because of the success of Fez, I don't believe that Fish is really all that obligated to make more games if he doesn't want to. After all, he does't really need money from making games to get by anymore. So if he continues making Fez II it's purely out of want. He can easily go on and pursue other things.

So, if he finds himself getting verbally abused by the same people who plan to play his game and then has the gaming media take his words way out of context (like the comment he made about Japanese games being twisted to being a hate speech about Japanese culture as a whole) with the expressed purpose of making him look like a terrible person. Why the hell would he put himself through the stress of making a game (video game development is an extremely stressful job with or without people saying shit about you) if all you will get in return is news headline about how he's an asshole. having his public image being thrashed by people he doesn't know (and sure as hell really don't know him) without being able to do anything because if he retaliates, he only gets more flack.

If you had a job that you did not need to make ends meet and hated most of the people you worked with, wouldn't you quit?

If you had a girlfriend you hated and didn't really need her to be happy, wouldn't you just dump her?

It's not childish, it just makes sense, you'd be stupid not to.

If I was in his shoes, I would probably would do the same (minus the Futurama reference, solid as it was).

P.S. even though most famous developers (like most public figures) get shit thrown there way all the time, Phil (like Jon Blow) tends to have his public image be twisted to something that most likely doesn't resemble who he actually is in a very negative way more than others. People's ability to tolerate it varies. It's not like the quantity of the negativity is trivial.
 

Strain42

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Benpasko said:
He wasn't actually telling them to kill themselves, he was making a Futurama reference. People seem to be overreacting.
I caught the reference, but that doesn't mean he didn't mean it (maybe he didn't. I dunno. But based on what I've seen of Phil Fish in the past, I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here) I use quotes from TV, Movies, and Comics to illustrate real points all the time. Just because you're using a reference doesn't automatically mean you're just being facetious.

A few months ago a woman who said she loved me for three years broke my heart through a text message (didn't even apologize) and then about a month later called and asked me for a pretty big favor and acting like nothing happened. My response was a quote from Hellsing Ultimate Abridged.

"Here's what you do. Go down to the local pharmacy. Ask for something called viagra, and it'll help you GO FUCK YOURSELF!"

Sure it was an over-reaction on my part, and yeah, it was a quote, but I still meant every word of it.

A reference isn't always just a joke used in jest. Sometimes it's just the best way to say what you wanna say.
 

NiPah

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Never got to play Fez, too busy playing Japanese games and triple A games to have a chance.

Oh hey, he's said something stupid again, oh and he canceled a game he was making I was never going to play, truly an uneventful day overall.

On the other hand Tales of Xillia is coming out soon, can't wait to play the shit out of that.
 

RJ Dalton

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Aug 13, 2009
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Wow. What an inspiring display of emotional maturity. Truly, this man is a role model for all of us.
 

Guilherme Zoldan

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Jun 20, 2011
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Phil fish is an asshole on Twitter, in other news the sky is blue and Fox News is conservative. More at Eleven.
 

Tony2077

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NiPah said:
Never got to play Fez, too busy playing Japanese games and triple A games to have a chance.

Oh hey, he's said something stupid again, oh and he canceled a game he was making I was never going to play, truly an uneventful day overall.

On the other hand Tales of Xillia is coming out soon, can't wait to play the shit out of that.
i can't wait either and i think i'll see if the 2nd one is preorderable
 

Revolutionary

Pub Club Am Broken
May 30, 2009
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Oh Phil, we can always rely on you to be a total asshat for our entertainment.
Oh and in response to that update, what a fuckface, what a whiney crybaby asshat. And to people defending this twat.... [HEADING=1]it's not relevant that it's a futurama reference[/HEADING]The fact that he has mental problems is also irrelevant, it's twitter, think before you post because that's your fucking job.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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pretty sure it was a bender quote.

B E N D E R! BEeeeEeeEeennder! B E N D E R! BEeeeEeeEeennder!
 

Riobux

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Omegatronacles said:
You are correct, if you got hit by a car tomorrow, I would not lose any sleep over it, because I do not know you and until this point you have not crossed my life today.

But at the same time, I do not spend my time going "If Riobux dies, nothing has been lost", because that's a stupid statement, and it implies that you have no value to anyone in this world.

If there is at least one person who feels the world is better due to your time on it, you have produced value and don't deserve to have your entire life dismissed in 8 words.
True, but the phrase "and nothing of value was lost" tends to be directed towards personal perception of value, rather than value to anything at all. If the latter, well, it's a phrase that could never be used.
 

KungFuJazzHands

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Fish: Obviously troubled young man. most likely suffering from some sort of social anxiety disorder. Can't handle criticism or stress. Lashes out at friends and critics alike. Possibly bi-polar.

Beer: Self-important games critic and sometimes-PR douche for industry companies. Stereotypical British "holier than thou" attitude. No obvious psychological conditions. Very big mouth.

One has mental issues, the other is just an asshole. I know where my sympathies lie.
 

RaikuFA

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Jun 12, 2009
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Vigormortis said:
Not going to defend Mr. Fishs comments, even though I think people are blowing it WAAAAAY out of proportion. Especially when one realizes that the latter part of his tweet was a Futurama reference and therefore a joke.

But this is the internet, after all. And the only sense of humor people have 'round here is one that involves either lol-cats or picking on people and being cruel. So...oh well.

Anyway, while I'm not defending Fishs tweet, I am going to agree with him and a few others in saying that Mr. Beer can fuck right off. His remarks towards Phil Fish and Johnathan Blow were unwarranted, needlessly confrontational, unceremoniously personal, and completely tasteless. The guy is a colossal prick and deserves as equal a level of ire and ridicule as Phil Fish is receiving.

Seriously....fuck Marcus Beer. What a twat.
But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.
 

Morsomk_v1legacy

RUMBA RUMBA RUMBA RUMBA RUMBA
Jan 30, 2013
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Yeaahhh.....this whole thing is just a mess ain't it. Granted, I never actually cared about Phil Fish(Dat name) or his game, but that attitude is just not making want to play it. Ever. Also that Markus Beer guy, probably shouldnt have aimed his joke at an indie developer that was known for having outbursts on Twitter....Unless he intended too(Golly Gee, WE GOT A MYSTERY ON OUR HAND), which is still a dick move btw.

Might as well just keep on gaming guys. So what about those Japanese games that are supposed to come out?
NiPah said:
On the other hand Tales of Xillia is coming out soon, can't wait to play the shit out of that.

Amen, random person in the internet that I agree with! Am-fucking-en!
 

Midniqht

Beer Quaffer
Jul 10, 2009
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The more I hear about this guy, the more I dislike him. So what if he developed Fez. Sure, it was an OK game, nothing to herald as the end-all-be-all of indie games, but that doesn't give him the right to act like a total bag of dicks. Seems like everything I see about Fez developers is nothing but complain, complain, complain. How about be less of an asshat, Phil Fish
 

Necrofudge

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May 17, 2009
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He didn't even legitimately tell the guy to kill himself. Anyone with two working brain cells could see he was just reciting a line from Futurama. It speaks to his arrogance, but can't be taken seriously as a death threat.
 

GoaThief

Reinventing the Spiel
Feb 2, 2012
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Beer was way out of line, it was quite a vicious attack on someone with serious mental health issues (Fish is bi-polar).

Some of the comments here are pretty shameful, if they were directed at a fellow forum goer there would be bans aplenty.
 

Nemu

In my hand I hold a key...
Oct 14, 2009
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I'm glad that I'm not the only one who had never heard of the guy.

Or "Fez" for that matter.

But if he was acting like a petulant child with only minimal noteriety, imagine if he designed for a bigger gaming house. HE would be the one swinging from the rafters instead of a reporter. Sheesh.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Aug 22, 2011
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Vie said:
I've barely heard of the guy and I already want to slap him about the head and tell him to grow up.

That's never a good sign.
Yeah. I usually make a mantra out of ignoring peoples/artists characters and recommend others to do the same. If one really doesn't want to support selfish assholes with weird ideas, we'd be unable to watch most movies, listen to most music and we'd also have to cut back on the majority of painters and pencillers. That's a generalization, of course, but cuntmuffins come in all shapes and colours. Phil Fish should have gotten some proper management or PR team the moment he struck gold. He's just not very good with words... or people.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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GoaThief said:
Beer was way out of line, it was quite a vicious attack on someone with serious mental health issues (Fish is bi-polar).

Some of the comments here are pretty shameful, if they were directed at a fellow forum goer there would be bans aplenty.
Ah, but I don't really care if Fish is bipolar or hailing from Alpha Centauri. It's none of my business. If I have that information, I might gladly give him a free multipass the first time he goes bonkers, but I would absolutely expect him to get a grip on himself one way or another after that. Fish is above that. You either got yourself in check and under control or you pay people to do that for you. Fish has been well out of line for a while and repeatedly went borderline psychotic batpoop crazy, shit just gets old really fast.

I also don't agree on the 'vicious attack' description of yours. Beer used foul language interspersed with eff words. It's his personal style, not very smart, not very edgy, but he usually has at least one straight man countering his lovely and loving negativity. Jonathan Blow and Phil Fish = blowfish. Hilarious? No. But that's not the core of the criticism Beer came up with. I think Beer made proper points that should be addressed and, maybe, discussed beyond Invisible Walls.

As Lao-Tse said: You better check yoself before you wreck yoself.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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KungFuJazzHands said:
Fish: Obviously troubled young man. most likely suffering from some sort of social anxiety disorder. Can't handle criticism or stress. Lashes out at friends and critics alike. Possibly bi-polar.

Beer: Self-important games critic and sometimes-PR douche for industry companies. Stereotypical British "holier than thou" attitude. No obvious psychological conditions. Very big mouth.

One has mental issues, the other is just an asshole. I know where my sympathies lie.
An asshole with mental issues is still an asshole.

Team Beer all the way.
 

Hero in a half shell

It's not easy being green
Dec 30, 2009
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KungFuJazzHands said:
Fish: Obviously troubled young man. most likely suffering from some sort of social anxiety disorder. Can't handle criticism or stress. Lashes out at friends and critics alike. Possibly bi-polar.

Beer: Self-important games critic and sometimes-PR douche for industry companies. Stereotypical British "holier than thou" attitude. No obvious psychological conditions. Very big mouth.

One has mental issues, the other is just an asshole. I know where my sympathies lie.
Hmm...

That breakdown reminds me of something...


Get me CBS on the phone now!
 

odanhammer

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eh fez 2 cancelled .. no loss . i never bothered to play the first one after seeing that on xbox it had some critical bug of some sorts.. figured it would of gotten sorted out.. which it never really did before i forgot about the game and this loser indie dev.

Look i have no problem with ranting on twitter about loser media members , nor do i have any problem with media members commenting on loser indie devs. But when it goes to far , and you tell someone to kill themselves.. your on my list of do not buy from ever. And then cancelling the 2nd game your making .. well that just makes it real easy to not purchase anything from this guy .
eh
 

Cybylt

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A favorite comment of mine from other reports of this.

"In other news - Local boy takes ball, goes home."
 

klaynexas3

My shoes hurt
Dec 30, 2009
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I'm starting to understand more and more why Fish's partner left him, and was possibly even thinking about screwing Phil over. I don't have anything major against Phil, but he seems to just think that he can act like any normal person with an internet connection and not receive any more shit even though he is a rather big name, and makes certain people know he's big. He's way too full of himself, that bubble is way to thin that shields his ego so he'll lash out at the slightest indication that someone doesn't agree with him, and he acts like the world owes him for his ultimate "genius." Not that Fez isn't a good game(I've yet to play it so I don't know), but I doubt it's any better than some of the better games even in the AAA industry. And I bet most Japanese games are better than his own. And then, if THIS is why he canceled Fez II, he's a bigger baby than thought possible.

He seems like the kind of guy I'd be internet friends with. And considering how big of a shut in I am(if I hang out with friends, I need a few days at home to recuperate, so I talk with my friends more online), that means quite a bit.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
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"Compare your life to mine and then kill yourself."

Its a god damn Bender from Futurama line! Chill out people!
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Aug 30, 2011
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I say good on him and fuck the police. The amount of shit this guy gets regularly is astounding. Some of it is deserved (anti-semitism) and the rest is unnecessary provocation. While I probably wouldn't recommend someone else kill themselves, let's be honest, neither did Fish. "Kill yourself" is a pretty mundane sentiment these days, especially when it comes from Futurama. This was understandable.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
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I said after the Indie Movie for him to get the fuck off every social website because they can and will be hurtful. It's just a big distraction no developer needs.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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And we're not going anywhere.
He then quit. As a "hipster," I'm sure he appreciates the "irony."

"quotes!"

how would you react tot his kind of shit if you were me," he said, "consider it's been going on for years now. you'd take the high road?
You know what? I wouldn't be in this situation. I can be a bit of a dick sometimes, but Phil Fish is a dick on a whole 'nother level. And he lacks the self-awareness to understand WHY he attracts this sort of drama. Probably because he emits drama like most people exhale CO2.

This is a statement that I'm sure rings true for many others who have made career-ruining blunders via twitter, such as everyone's favorite Microsoft bigmouth, Adam Orth.
Anyone else noticing a pattern here? People who say stupid things are the ones who have a rough time on Twitter?

Ishal said:
The man either seems to be a complete jackhole, or a complete jackhole that is possibly suffering from bipolar disorder. Honestly reading some is hies previous rants on twitter, I expect outbursts like his from a 14-16 boy, not from a successful indie dev.
He apparently suffers from depression, which I've now learned (from others' reactions to this story) is apparently free reign to be a douche. So if I offend anyone with this post, keep in mind I suffer from depression[footnote]This is not a joke or a misrepresentation, before anyone accuses me of being tasteless. I have been diagnosed with severe depression and have struggled with it for over a decade now. I understand what people with depressive disorders go through; I merely disagree with the notion that it's free reign to act like a childish asshole[/footnote].

Ghonzor said:
So his solution is to act like a six year-old? Yeah, that certainly solves the problem.
Especially since it was the start of his problem, too.

Senare said:
Without knowing any historical context, acting like this is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. Dick or not - if this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?
Depends. He reminds me of guys in high school that used to pick fights and complain when they got their asses kicked. This seems like a verbal case--dude talks shit frequently, then someone ridicules him and he's all "I'M QUITTING THE INDUSTRY 4EVER!!!!!!!!!" and "KILL YOURSELF!"

Whether or not I hold it against someone to "lash out" if they're being attacked depends greatly on the context. someone known for being a blowhard and a jerk in the first place isn't going to get my sympathy like someone who's being dogged for no good reason or someone having a bad day. Emphasis on a. When someone fairly routinely acts like an out-of-control-child, I don't feel bad for them.

I expect no moral high ground from Phil Fish. But nor do I offer him sympathy for hostility he's been breeding since he arrived on the scene.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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Well, Marcus Beer doesn't really mince his words and I respect him for that, but I could see how overly sensitive types like Fish could take offense to being called names by a journalist.

The problem is I can't defend Fish either, as even the most crippling bout of depression ever to be imagined wouldn't give you licence to act like a dick in a public space. Like it or not, Twitter is *very much* a public space.

I just think it's sad, really. One of the best designers in recent years has the petulance and thickness of skin of a five year-old. I'd stack that with when I learned that Doug TenNapel was a severely convinced right-winger. Politics aside, that disappointed me. I grew up on Earthworm Jim and I absolutely freaking loved his "Ratfist" comic.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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When under stress, remember there are two words you can use that get the point across and are pretty uncontroversial: "Fuck Off". Bam! Sure you'll take a bit of heat; but it's a pretty baseline response.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Necrofudge said:
He didn't even legitimately tell the guy to kill himself. Anyone with two working brain cells could see he was just reciting a line from Futurama. It speaks to his arrogance, but can't be taken seriously as a death threat.
Two working brain cells and a knowledge of a show that's been cancelled more than once, that is.

Two working brain cells, a knowledge of a show that's been canceled more than once, and the ability to completely ignore the context of his tirade, actually.

Also, I'm not sure "Kill yourself" is taken as a "death threat," but maybe that's because I'm not trying to make excuses for a man on a histrionic rampage. I mean, you're arguing against something that (far as I can tell) literally nobody here is saying.

More to the point, the fact that you're quoting someone doesn't mean something isn't sincere. This goes back to the "context" thing.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
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Orange Lazarus said:
How come no one reacted this harshly when they told this joke on Futurama 8 years ago?
You mean "why did nobody react the same to a comedy show as to a man known for some serious and hateful tirades directed at a real person?"

Why is this question even being asked?
 

Dr Pussymagnet

a real piece of shit
Dec 20, 2007
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Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
 

sir neillios

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Dec 15, 2012
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I dunno, normal people just don't say stuff like that. When all is said and done, all I can really feel is sorry for Fish, he seriously is not a people person. An ass, yes, but I look on him like you look at that kid at school who tries to make fun of others but only ends up looking more pathetic himself. With a talent for video games.

Personally I think he needs a big hug, and then his twitter permanently removed.
 

BoredRolePlayer

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Nov 9, 2010
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See I hate this crap, if I were to lash out at my job about someone angry about my work because someone else(or him) screwed up setting it up(Or didn't read the help guide we made to use it) I would get fired (And yes this crap does happen). He lashes out and people think he is in the right, screw that. He is a professional and needs to act like it.
 

GoaThief

Reinventing the Spiel
Feb 2, 2012
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.
The clickbait headline is a very valid point, no doubt it adds fuel to the fire to boot. Third time in very recent history that I've really disliked and/or disagreed with an Escapist article that is very reminiscent of red top rags that plague the UK.
 

faefrost

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Jun 2, 2010
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I'm going to go with the problem is not Marcus Beer or our otherwise godawful community. Somewhere somehow someone failed to teach Mr. Fish and many of his peers that there is the voice inside your head, and there is the voice you use in public. And the internet does not get to use the one from inside your head. Appearence counts. Speech counts. Professionalism counts. I don't care how good a game developer you are. Being a good game developer who keeps the voices inside ones head, INSIDE ONES HEAD, makes you an even better game developer. I've been a gamer for almost 40 years now. I have seen followed and listened to a lot of devs. The absolute best of them always carry and present themselves with an amazing degree of professionalism, and respect for others and the world in general. Can anyone here even imagine someone like Sid Meier suggesting that a fan or journalist go kill himself? Raph Koester? Shigeru Miyamoto? (Well ok if he did it would be in a very hard to decypher haiku.) Gabe Newell? Richard Gariott? Some may be sane, some may be completely bonkers. Some may be great guys, some may be total assholes. But they all at least understand the basic rules of how to present yourself to the public, to their customers and to the general world. And their products and their fans are far far the better for it.

Quite frankly somebody simply needs to teach Fez boy some manners for real. (and no I don't mean an ass kicking. I mean really teach him what manners and impulse control are.) He's a spoiled child at best and mentally unhinged at worst.
 

FoolKiller

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Feb 8, 2008
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I guess I'm the only one who has no problem with this. I've done that to people too. Go kill yourself is the same as go fuck yourself. If anyone can't handle that then they need thicker skin.

I agree with Fish... if you're gonna dish it out then expect it back 10 fold.
 

major_chaos

Ruining videogames
Feb 3, 2011
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.
And fuck Phil for being a hateful, arrogant, self important, little asshole. The industry doesn't need someone who responds to criticism with "eat a dick and choke on it".

OT: This made my day. phil fish ragequitting the industry is wonderful news. Now if Blow can just follow suit the two most toxic, arrogant blowhards in the industry will be gone. BTW, a word to Mr. Fish:
 

ThePuzzldPirate

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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
You mean like every other game developor/producer on the planet? When ever you make content and put it on the internet, your going to be microscoped and dissected which will make two camps. People who like your work and people that don't. Fish couldn't handle this what so ever, constantly throwing tantrums like a child. What I find hilarious about the whole damn thing is ever since his game came out, he acted like hot shit. Beer had every right to call him out, sure he could of been more tactful but it is what it is.

However, Throwing a fit, fake-canceling a game along with the rest of his tirade is not excusable. Being Bi-polar is not an excuse. Fish is no victim here as there is none, it was a "Dick" calling out a "Dick" and instead of dealing with it privately, decided it to share it with everyone.
 

Axel1105

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Jun 13, 2009
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
Exactly, it seems like Fish is just sick and tired of being unjustifiably attacked from all sides and when he reacts to it, everyone else in turn reacts by attacking him some more. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

I heard worse things said about Phil Fish than said by Phil Fish and at a much larger scale.

From his perspective, the only way to make it stop is to get out of video games. Honestly, considering that he is a bit on the unstable side (according to not only the things he's said/done but comments from his fellow indie developers, namely Edmond McMillan and Tommy Refenes from Team Meat who know him very well) I wouldn't put past him if decided just to end it and actually kill himself. What then? Earlier in this post some said that if that happened, nothing of value would be lost. Which I find way more bothersome than Fish quoting a line from Futurama.

If that were to happen I think people would be singing a different tune.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Akalabeth said:
Eric the Orange said:
This is the end (hopefully) of a long time of Fish being a dick on twitter. Seriously this has been going on for a long time before this. Seems to be pretty common problem for some creative types that they cannot take criticism of there work. At least those that don't have corporate over lords to keep them quiet. It generally ends with this "take my ball and go home" approach.
So someone calling him "Blowfish" is "Criticism of his work"?

Don't fucking think so.

Fish was out of line certainly. But the other guy sounds like a grade-a juvenile asshole as well. This is an example of two people who should've been the better man, and yet neither of them were.
This, for sure. I don't now what the OP's issue is, but in this case, telling someone to kill themselves is on par with criticism of Fish's work, because the "criticism" is a juvenile taunt of absolutely no worth whatsoever.
 

Dr Pussymagnet

a real piece of shit
Dec 20, 2007
1,243
0
0
major_chaos said:
Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.
And fuck Phil for being a hateful, arrogant, self important, little asshole. The industry doesn't need someone who responds to criticism with "eat a dick and choke on it".

OT: This made my day. phil fish ragequitting the industry is wonderful news. Now if Blow can just follow suit the two most toxic, arrogant blowhards in the industry will be gone. BTW, a word to Mr. Fish:
Damn dude............a TF2 vid..............damn talk about Owned.........you really Owned that philfish dude hard......Damn...

Also thanks for helping prove my point.
 

FuriousPanda

New member
Jul 11, 2011
1
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sir neillios said:
I dunno, normal people just don't say stuff like that.
I don't think it should matter what a person says and whether it's normal or not. It's not relevant to anything. All that matters is whether he's doing something good for the world of games.

I'm far more distressed about large multimillion/billion dollar game companies screwing over their consumers en masse than by one developer who told a guy to kill himself over twitter. The latter is such a non-issue that it doesn't even factor into my consciousness when someone asks me what I think about Phil Fish.

Yeah, he may be immature. He may have a bad temper. He may have a ton of stress, or may just hate people. Maybe he has a good reason to, as well. Judge a person not by what he says but by what he does and you'll have a far more truthful basis upon which to either praise or condemn him.

I think he's being judged unfairly, and that he has enough shit to deal with (he's a troubled guy, it's pretty obvious) that the hate of the entire internet isn't going to help anything. And I think it's a damn shame that Fez II is getting cancelled for reasons like that. No doubt if Phil Fish were to go and off himself, a sizable chunk of the internet would say "Finally we're rid of that asshole", proving that the denizens of the internet are far more cruel and unpleasant than Fish himself could ever be.
 

Signa

Noisy Lurker
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Oh c'mon, this is news? It's on the internet! EVERYONE tells someone to kill themselves.
 

alphamalet

New member
Nov 29, 2011
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A guy doesn't want to take criticism but tells a Japanese dev at a gaming convention that all modern Japanese games suck. Goodbye and good riddance, Mr. Fish. The industry doesn't particularly need you anyway and will hardly mourn the loss of an indie dev that made one game.

I think he seriously needs to get his life together.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
It was all normal and Fishtastic until the cancellation of Fez II.

<img width=200>http://24.media.tumblr.com/bd9e3fe540aff24a379d4d35cef65dc0/tumblr_mkjsvjfAfw1r0vegfo1_500.gif

I'm kind of flabbergasted now. I think the guy might need some therapy.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

New member
May 22, 2010
7,370
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
major_chaos said:
Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.
And fuck Phil for being a hateful, arrogant, self important, little asshole. The industry doesn't need someone who responds to criticism with "eat a dick and choke on it".

OT: This made my day. phil fish ragequitting the industry is wonderful news. Now if Blow can just follow suit the two most toxic, arrogant blowhards in the industry will be gone. BTW, a word to Mr. Fish:
Damn dude............a TF2 vid..............damn talk about Owned.........you really Owned that philfish dude hard......Damn...

Also thanks for helping prove my point.
What point? Yeah, people hate the guy. They hate him because he's a pompous, obnoxious asshole who has been doing stuff like this from day one. I really hate "art" games, both because they usually suck as games, and because their developers tend to think they're God's gift to gamers.
 

OtherSideofSky

New member
Jan 4, 2010
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I have never heard a quote from Phil Fish that didn't make me think he was a narcissistic drama queen and a truly detestable asshole. He's one of the few devs I dislike so much that I actively avoid the games he makes. This certainly hasn't made me think more of him.
 

RaikuFA

New member
Jun 12, 2009
4,371
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0
Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
I'd agree... if this wasn't the first time he acted like this. The man is very vocal and throws a fit when people try and tell him he's wrong.

In other words, he's Chris-Chan.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
0
0
Lunar Templar said:
So 'indie dev throws tantrum cause some guy called him a name' basically? spiffy, and not really news worthy >.> the part about Fez 2 getting canned, sure, worth a report, but the dev throwing a hissy fit cause some one called him 'blow fish', ugh ....

It'd been more worth while to write up a news story on Transformers Prime ending then reporting some assholes temper tantrum
Well, Fish cancelled Fez 2 BECAUSE he was insulted by Marcus Beer and that tipped him over the line to cancelling his game and getting out of the Video Game Industry where people get insulted everyday. I mean how many people do you think insulted and told Ghostcrawler, aka Greg Street to kill himself? Just as many, if not more, than those who acted mean to Phil Fish. Yet, Mr. Street doesn't act like a baby and throw a tantrum -_-

Eri said:
Beer needs to fuck off. What has he contributed, exactly, to this industry? That's what I thought. At least Fish does shit.
What exactly has Fish done? Make a decent/mediocre game? Insult hundreds of people because he is a hipster douchebag? Pitch a tantrum bigger than most children under the age of 5?

At least Beer is entertaining, more than I can say for Fish.
 

Cybylt

New member
Aug 13, 2009
284
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0
Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
I'd agree if the man in question weren't a pretentious, self-absorbed asshole of the highest caliber who continually makes flame bait then acts the victim when people call him out on it. If the guy honestly wanted people to stop calling him an asshole then he should stop being an asshole.

Hell I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing turned out to be a roundabout PR job for Fez 2.
 

Midniqht

Beer Quaffer
Jul 10, 2009
523
0
0
Is it just me, or did the Update to this article somehow make him even more of a butthurt crybaby douchebag than he already was?
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
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Capitano Segnaposto said:
Lunar Templar said:
So 'indie dev throws tantrum cause some guy called him a name' basically? spiffy, and not really news worthy >.> the part about Fez 2 getting canned, sure, worth a report, but the dev throwing a hissy fit cause some one called him 'blow fish', ugh ....

It'd been more worth while to write up a news story on Transformers Prime ending then reporting some assholes temper tantrum
Well, Fish cancelled Fez 2 BECAUSE he was insulted by Marcus Beer and that tipped him over the line to cancelling his game and getting out of the Video Game Industry where people get insulted everyday. I mean how many people do you think insulted and told Ghostcrawler, aka Greg Street to kill himself? Just as many, if not more, than those who acted mean to Phil Fish. Yet, Mr. Street doesn't act like a baby and throw a tantrum -_-
Can't think of anyone off hand that throws a fit like this cause some one called them a name, dude needs to get over him self.

Eri said:
Beer needs to fuck off. What has he contributed, exactly, to this industry? That's what I thought. At least Fish does shit.
And Fish has done what to make him worthy of praise? or make him worthy of listening to? about as much as this 'Beer' person. ONE good game does not make you worth listening to, nor is it a shield for all the bullshit this guy has said.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Akalabeth said:
Rage quitting the project? The impression I got is the company cancelled their funding of the game. Assuming he is being funded by someone else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytron_Corporation

In short, the company canceled it because the company is more or less Phil Fish.

That's a ragequit in my books.
 

Hazy

New member
Jun 29, 2008
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
Turns out acting like a complete dick leads people to believe that you're a complete dick. Whodathunk?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Steven Bogos said:
"To be clear, I'm not cancelling Fez II because some boorish fuck said something stupid, I'm doing it to get out of games. And I'm getting out of games because I choose not to put up with this abuse anymore."
So he's not quitting because of one boorish fuck, but because of ALL the boorish fucks?
 

Revnak_v1legacy

Fixed by "Monday"
Mar 28, 2010
1,979
0
0
I have gathered two things from this. First, Phil Fish's twitter icon makes this all far too ironic. Second, if you are a creative type with confidence and or emotional issues, stay the fuck away from social media.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Apr 2, 2010
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Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
He's still a human being, dude. A human piece of shit is still a human piece of shit.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Cybylt said:
[If the guy honestly wanted people to stop calling him an asshole then he should stop being an asshole.
Oh, just for that, Phil is SO quitting.

But it's not because of you, even though you're obviously the direct catylist.

Midniqht said:
Is it just me, or did the Update to this article somehow make him even more of a butthurt crybaby douchebag than he already was?
It's not just you. It also seems really stupid.

"I'm not quitting because of this obvious insult I blew up over, but because I don't like being insulted."

Hazy said:
Turns out acting like a complete dick leads people to believe that you're a complete dick. Whodathunk?
Crap. That was going to be my post-grad work in sociology.

Oh well, time to find a new topic.
 

dumbseizure

New member
Mar 15, 2009
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So he will dish out the insults all he likes, but god for-fucking-bid someone criticizes him back?

I feel sorry for everyone else who was at Polytron and working on FEZ 2 (if there are other people), knowing the game has now been cancelled because Phil Fish can't handle what it is he dishes out all the time.
 

nameless023

Fancy Forum Title Goes Here
Nov 11, 2011
54
0
0
Do we have some sort of "dislike" button for articles? Reading this article gave me a bitter feeling of disgust towards whoever wrote it. Now, before I begin I would like to point out that I'm no way supporting Phil Fish's attitude, everyone knows the man is a walking PR disaster. No, the following rant is directed to the person that wrote this article.

Let's start with the title, shall we? "Fez Dev tells Media Member to Kill Himself", quite the reader trap. You could've easily changed the title to something equally dramatic like "Phil Fish murders puppies for fun" and get the same attention from viewers. The article itself is brief and quick to deliver a point, and the writer's intended point seems to be "PHIL FISH IS BEING A DICK, AGAIN". It's blatantly one sided, leaving out important details of the story. Yes, it does mention the Invisible Walls thing *in one single sentence* and tries to make it seem like the worst thing this Marcus Beer guy did was calling him "Blowfish", but it fails to mention that Beer spent several minutes lashing out against Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow (from Braid) for not wanting to state their options about Microsoft's Indie Publishing and taking a direct aim at insulting Fish whenever possible, calling him a "Fucking Asshole" and a "Whiny Tosspot" among other things. Then you proceed to mock Phil Fish in a rather unprofessional way with snappy remarks for the sake of being "funny" and then you add (further) insult to injury by comparing Fish to some equally unlikable gaming personality like Adam Orth just because they both stated their personal opinions on Twitter and it backfired on them (FYI: also not defending Adam Orth).

Now, let's take a moment and think about Phil Fish for a moment. The guy's been taking crap all over before and after releasing FEZ, think about all that negative feedback he's been constantly getting ever since. And yes, most of the times that crap was in some way related to something retardedly stupid that he said, something that any public figure with common sense would never say in a open public channel such as Twitter. But there's only so much crap a person can take before everything bursts out, and in the case of our dear Phil Fish, him being the outspoken hot-headed man-child we know, this Twitter blowup was only expected of him.

Once again, I'm neither defending nor attacking Fish. The man fails to understand that making a rather successful indie game made him a public figure in the gaming industry, and as such he should think before talking (or Tweeting) about something that can potentially end up in crap like this. What upsets me is the way this article keeps on reinforcing the same "Phil Fish is an asshole" kind-of-meme and pushes readers into disliking this character and to keep making fun of him, instead of giving actual complete information and letting readers decide if it's worth defending his reasoning or not.
 

Soviet Heavy

New member
Jan 22, 2010
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Daystar Clarion said:
What is it about Indie devs and turning out to be colossal twats?


Man, you're right, you really revolutionised the industry with your quirky puzzle platformer with retro-esque graphics and subversive undertones, I'm sure nobody else in the indie scene has even thought of doing such a thing.

Row row fight da powah ¬_¬
You reminded me of this video. Quite appropriate, I think.

I'm not against indie games, but there is this air of arrogance around them that annoys the hell out of me.
 

major_chaos

Ruining videogames
Feb 3, 2011
1,314
0
0
Dr Pussymagnet said:
Also thanks for helping prove my point.
Thank you for failing to counter the point that the reason people hate him so much is because he acts like this. You seem to be assuming that people are just being so mean to this poor nice boy, when the truth is that he earns most of his hate by being an narcissistic arrogant prick who can't handle being criticized.
 

Roander

New member
Dec 27, 2009
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I apologize if someone's already said this, but I don't have time to read all 5 pages of comments and I feel like it needs to be said, even if ends up on the 6th page of comments no one is going to read. "Compare your lives to mine and kill yourselves." Most people on this site probably already know this is a quote from Futurama and probably also know the context. It was not about Bender encouraging his friends to commit suicide, it was about Bender bragging about how great his life is. Given the rest of Fish's statement that context fits here too. Yes his statement as a whole is still immature but everyone seems to be focusing on the 'kill yourself' part like we're all soul-less robots who can't accept anything but a literal interpretation of text.
 

Phrozenflame500

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Dec 26, 2012
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Steven Bogos said:
"To be clear, I'm not cancelling Fez II because some boorish fuck said something stupid, I'm doing it to get out of games. And I'm getting out of games because I choose not to put up with this abuse anymore."
Pfff hahahahahaha.

Oh Jesus, this guy is like one of those assholes on Deviant Art who cry when somebody tells them their art looks like crap. The victim complex is strong in this one.
 

Riobux

New member
Apr 15, 2009
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Andy of Comix Inc said:
Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
He's still a human being, dude. A human piece of shit is still a human piece of shit.
You make the statement that he's a human being sound like it should garner respect and that in it's self by being human you create value. This is not the case.
 

The Great JT

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Oct 6, 2008
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Well that escalated quickly. Also...

Steven Bogos said:
"To be clear, I'm not cancelling Fez II because some boorish fuck said something stupid, I'm doing it to get out of games. And I'm getting out of games because I choose not to put up with this abuse anymore."
...yes, I'd like to play the "Bullshit!" card. You say stupid things like this and people are going to call you out on it HARD. And this is coming from ME of all people.
 

Infernal Lawyer

New member
Jan 28, 2013
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
Though I agree a large portion of the gaming community is fucking vile (hence the hordes of 'Nothing of value is lost' comments), I fail to see why Fish couldn't have culled the flow of hatred, like opting out of Twitter, if he wanted to cut down of the vast amounts of abuse he was getting (and possibly prevent him from saying something inflammatory on a whim).

Normally I'd agree that it's messed up to have to give up something you love just because it's mostly populated by assholes (I am personally preemptively keeping the fuck away from Call of Duty, simply because of the awful community it's known for), but from what I understand, he was happy to dish it out as much as he took it, even without provocation.

By the way captcha, stop trying to advertise obscure brand names without any fucking clue what as to they actually sell. I have no idea what the fuck 'Unilever' is, nor do I have any interest in looking it up.
 

Alfredo Jones

New member
Jul 1, 2013
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I find it hard to pick a side on this issue. On the one hand Fish has point that the current video game community is too full of obnoxious assholes (or that they are the most vocal part of our community despite being a minority) and that such abuse can often be too much for a single person to take. I have seen a fair share of people who were once devoted gamers swear off gaming because they couldn't stand the abuse. It's basically just like what happened to that poor girl from the Cross Assault debacle. On the other hand his handling of the situation was completely inappropriate. The "go kill yourself" remark is one thing. Completely cancelling a game many fans are probably anticipating is rude and basically amounts to raising a giant middle finger at all gamers, good or bad. If he could at least have the decency to hand off the project to someone else then he probably wouldn't look like a such a whiny baby. I also have a feeling that with business' of today checking people's social media interactions when reviewing someone for a job this whole debacle may end up coming back to bite him in the ass.
 

Buccura

New member
Aug 13, 2009
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"To be clear, I'm not cancelling Fez II because some boorish fuck said something stupid, I'm doing it to get out of games. And I'm getting out of games because I choose not to put up with this abuse anymore."

So, then, exactly because of something someone said over Twitter.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
0
0
What was so good about his fez game. It reminded me of some snes games is that why?

Infact he does a much better job of being a blow hard than a games developer.
 

Brad Shepard

New member
Sep 9, 2009
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I never liked this asshole, he has always been an unbelievable dickhead to anyone that gives him even a little bit of criticize, to telling people to suck and choke on his dick to this, i dont care if he was quoting a tv show or not, its a joke in bad taste, tosh.0 makes a lot of terrible jokes, does not mean im going to go quoting him, because not everyone is going to know what the hell im talking about.

im quite happy he is not making games anymore, the medium is better without this jerk.
 

Wintermute_v1legacy

New member
Mar 16, 2012
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Oh my, it saddens me to see the greatest man in the games industry leaving like this.

Part of me still thinks he will be back in less than a week, though.
 

Bat Vader

New member
Mar 11, 2009
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NiPah said:
Never got to play Fez, too busy playing Japanese games and triple A games to have a chance.

Oh hey, he's said something stupid again, oh and he canceled a game he was making I was never going to play, truly an uneventful day overall.

On the other hand Tales of Xillia is coming out soon, can't wait to play the shit out of that.
Got the Collector's Edition pre-ordered and paid off. Now just to wait for the release date. I expect good things.

On Topic: I understand that getting criticized and insulted can do a good deal of damage to one's self esteem and mentality but at the same time Phil Fish went way out of line with this. I also saw some of the other things he has said on Twitter too and I honestly have no sympathy for this man.

When you're watched and judged continually you need to keep your composure at all times otherwise something like this can happen.

If Twitter is where most of the insults are coming from, logically the best choice would be to get off of Twitter. Plus, canceling the development of Fez II is nothing but a slap in the face to fans of Fez and people looking forward to Fez II.
 

Xman490

Doctorate in Danger
May 29, 2010
1,186
0
0
Does every FEZ-related article have to have happy Gomez with a cube as the thumbnail? That image's mood is much less appropriate than, say, Gomez being sucked into a void.
 

Negatempest

New member
May 10, 2008
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Look, Phil is far from a pure hearted game designer. The guy insulted a Japanese developer, in public, at GDC last year. He now gets called a "tosspot" for rudely refusing a simple response to Gameinformer about Xboxone. And now he leaves gaming for getting flack for his attitude? When has a gaming company never gotten flack? Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Blizzard, etc. All get flack when they do or say something stupid. Phil Fish is not special enough not to get flack for doing something stupid. Now he Divas out of the gaming industry and we are supposed to feel sorry for him? F' that!
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
0
0
Uh...are you people fucking stupid?
The guy was insulted for doing his job, trying to bring happiness to gamers, and he responded by canceling his project because it wasn't bringing him happiness anymore, mostly because fu-...ahem...people... like you were insulting him and his work. Have you ever created something only to have it dragged through the dirt?

And, by the by? Why is it SUCH a big deal if this guy quotes futurama? Or, if a game making nerd acts like a nerd...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic1YLkpl1Do[/youtube]
 

Bat Vader

New member
Mar 11, 2009
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Dr Pussymagnet said:
Fuck Marcus Beer, fuck this clickbait headline, and fuck Gamers for celebrating the fact that someone was so jaded by our shitty awful community that it made him quit.



I give him credit for sticking it out this long though, since being under constant scrutiny from the gaming community of all places would drive me fucking insane.
No one made him quit, he chose to quit. He could have just as easily stopped using his Twitter account and continue to develop his game but instead he decides to quit over something that could have been easily avoided if he had kept his cool. Yeah, it sucks getting insulted and criticized all the time but if someone can't take the heat they need to stay out of the kitchen.
 

Darren716

New member
Jul 7, 2011
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The way I see it Mr. Fish is being extremely immature, yeah people are assholes but that's what happens when your in the public eye. Also there's an old saying about treating others the way you would like to be treated, so instead of being an ass to everyone he came in contact with he could have decided to treat other people with a grain of respect and then people might not have bullied him into making him act like a fucking five year old. I wish I didn't support this asshole by buying Fez last week during the Steam sale but I know I will try to have anyone I know not support him either.
 

l3o2828

New member
Mar 24, 2011
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It's a shame really.
I did despise the creator for some of the things he said, so much as to not buy his product, but i do understand his side.
Most game developers aren't outgoing secure powerhouses, and being under scrutinity can break a person.
 

Ishal

New member
Oct 30, 2012
1,177
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Zachary Amaranth said:
You know what? I wouldn't be in this situation. I can be a bit of a dick sometimes, but Phil Fish is a dick on a whole 'nother level. And he lacks the self-awareness to understand WHY he attracts this sort of drama. Probably because he emits drama like most people exhale CO2.
Yes. So much yes.



Anyone else noticing a pattern here? People who say stupid things are the ones who have a rough time on Twitter?
it is indeed a pattern, and an enjoyable one. Yes people lose their jobs, and yes that is terrible, but guess what else is terrible? Not taking to heart the lesson our mums taught us when we were young, think before you say something stupid. These guys don't know how to act (or don't care in Fish's case) in a new media public space, they have no business being there.



He apparently suffers from depression, which I've now learned (from others' reactions to this story) is apparently free reign to be a douche. So if I offend anyone with this post, keep in mind I suffer from depression[footnote]This is not a joke or a misrepresentation, before anyone accuses me of being tasteless. I have been diagnosed with severe depression and have struggled with it for over a decade now. I understand what people with depressive disorders go through; I merely disagree with the notion that it's free reign to act like a childish asshole[/footnote].
I'll agree here too. You know, its like the stand up comedian who gets heckled, but doesn't know how to handle it. Most comedians would do one of two things. 1) Have security throw the guy/girl out 2) Have security throw the guy/girl out but take the heckling in stride and make the heckler the butt of a joke. Weave it into the act and keep the audience engaged. Fish would jump off the stage and stop the entire show just to personally argue with the guy, making everything awkward for everyone. It's what he's done on twitter for the past several months I've been occasionally visiting his twitter feed, because its been so humorous.

I'm sorry that you suffered from depression, but you are correct in that it doesn't give you free license to be a dick. I've been around people A LOT in my life who suffer from depression or some sort of disorder like bipolar. From seeing his tweets, to reading stuff like this, to even observing his mannerisms I figured there was something wrong :(

Often being a dick is a form of coping when under stress or depression. I actually think that is the whole reason behind his infamous, "Games from Japan just suck!" or whatever the comment was.

edit: ^^^ but that is no excuse.
 

RaikuFA

New member
Jun 12, 2009
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Doomsdaylee said:
Uh...are you people fucking stupid?
The guy was insulted for doing his job, trying to bring happiness to gamers, and he responded by canceling his project because it wasn't bringing him happiness anymore, mostly because fu-...ahem...people... like you were insulting him and his work. Have you ever created something only to have it dragged through the dirt?

And, by the by? Why is it SUCH a big deal if this guy quotes futurama? Or, if a game making nerd acts like a nerd...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic1YLkpl1Do[/youtube]
It wasn't his work that was criticized, it was his ego. Seriously, that thing is on Kanye levels.
 

Bat Vader

New member
Mar 11, 2009
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Doomsdaylee said:
Uh...are you people fucking stupid?
The guy was insulted for doing his job, trying to bring happiness to gamers, and he responded by canceling his project because it wasn't bringing him happiness anymore, mostly because fu-...ahem...people... like you were insulting him and his work. Have you ever created something only to have it dragged through the dirt?

And, by the by? Why is it SUCH a big deal if this guy quotes futurama? Or, if a game making nerd acts like a nerd...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic1YLkpl1Do[/youtube]
It's really more the context of how he is using the quote. Telling someone to kill themselves either through their own mouth or a quote from a show is still telling someone to kill themselves. The way it is being used seems like he is telling Marcus Beer to kill himself. If Fish didn't mean it that way and instead another way he needs to say so.

I have said somethings on the internet in jest but other people have taken it a different way so I had to tell them that I meant it in a different way.

I am sure there have been plenty of people throughout history that have had their works dragged through the dirt yet decided to persevere and not give up. I am working on a book at the moment and I know that when it gets released not everyone will like it and that I will get criticized and insulted for it. Even when that happens I am not going to give up. I am going to keep writing no matter what anyone says.
 

Strain42

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I said this earlier in this thread, and I'm going to say it again because some people don't seem to grasp it.

It does not matter one iota that what Fish said was a Futurama quote. Just because it was a quote doesn't mean he was just kidding or trying to be funny.

If I were ever in a situation where I could say to someone "How about I point out that we've never actually been friends, and instead laugh at your well deserved misfortune?"

It doesn't make it okay just because I'm quoting from Community. It doesn't automatically mean I don't actually mean what I'm saying.

Now admittedly maybe Fish was just saying it as a joke. It doesn't surprise me at all that he'd be a Futurama fan. But since A. He didn't address that he was quoting (something he could have easily brought up at anytime) and B. Cancelled his game and is apparently quitting the industry, I'm not going to give him the benefit of that assumption. I'm going to assume he meant what he said, and that Bender quote was just a good way to say it.

I can certainly sympathize with the guy to a certain extent. Gamers coupled with the internet can be a pretty ruthless combo. I'm sure he's read enough e-mails and tweets insulting his work and himself that would probably get to just about any of us. But that's a risk you take when you get into this industry.

Like the old adage goes, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. There were a lot of ways he could have handled his criticism with good faith and humor rather than lashing out at fans and critics alike, and he basically chose not to. Reggie from Nintendo gets constantly made fun of. He's literally a joke on the internet. What did he do? He basically turned the joke into his own catch phrase, and now he's in on the joke. He laughs with us as we basically laugh at him.

John Layman from Chew (a comic series) on the back of each trade, he always puts 3 nice things critics have said and one negative quote. He carries on and tells the story he wants to tell, well aware of the negative criticism and even embracing it.

If Fish was really passionate about making games and it was what he really really wanted to do, then nothing fans, critics, or even random internet haters say should be able to deter him. But they did, and that's his choice. I may not like Fish, but I respect the choice he made.
 

chiggerwood

Lurker Extrordinaire
May 10, 2009
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Brussels said:
Twitter's such a pain.
True, BUT! He doesn't have to be on twitter. He can close his account, or close the window, or walk away from the computer, or phone, he can do something else. It's not like people are coming up to him on the street and saying shit to his face. He has an escape route that takes no effort to use.
 

42

Australian Justice
Jan 30, 2010
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Remember ladies and gentlemen, Sticks and Stones will always continue to remain relevant.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
You know, considering Fish's history - continuing? - with astute depression, I'm more worried than angry now. I hope he didn't go off to... do... what he suggested... to himself. Oh, geez.
And just then nothing of value was lost.
He's still a human being, dude. A human piece of shit is still a human piece of shit.
You make the statement that he's a human being sound like it should garner respect and that in it's self by being human you create value. This is not the case.
It should create value of life, yes. Loss of human life is always a loss. No exception. Especially when it's a preventable loss like from suicide. Hell, especially from suicide.

I was suicidal once. I still am, even. And you know, I may not offer anything to humanity as a whole but my life still means things to people. And my death would still have been a loss. Even if it's not by my taking of life explicitly, the people that have to find my body, the people who drive the bus I step in front of... people lose out, even if its not just because I'm gone.
 

ex951753

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nameless023 said:
Do we have some sort of "dislike" button for articles? Reading this article gave me a bitter feeling of disgust towards whoever wrote it. Now, before I begin I would like to point out that I'm no way supporting Phil Fish's attitude, everyone knows the man is a walking PR disaster. No, the following rant is directed to the person that wrote this article.

Let's start with the title, shall we? "Fez Dev tells Media Member to Kill Himself", quite the reader trap. You could've easily changed the title to something equally dramatic like "Phil Fish murders puppies for fun" and get the same attention from viewers. The article itself is brief and quick to deliver a point, and the writer's intended point seems to be "PHIL FISH IS BEING A DICK, AGAIN". It's blatantly one sided, leaving out important details of the story. Yes, it does mention the Invisible Walls thing *in one single sentence* and tries to make it seem like the worst thing this Marcus Beer guy did was calling him "Blowfish", but it fails to mention that Beer spent several minutes lashing out against Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow (from Braid) for not wanting to state their options about Microsoft's Indie Publishing and taking a direct aim at insulting Fish whenever possible, calling him a "Fucking Asshole" and a "Whiny Tosspot" among other things. Then you proceed to mock Phil Fish in a rather unprofessional way with snappy remarks for the sake of being "funny" and then you add (further) insult to injury by comparing Fish to some equally unlikable gaming personality like Adam Orth just because they both stated their personal opinions on Twitter and it backfired on them (FYI: also not defending Adam Orth).

Now, let's take a moment and think about Phil Fish for a moment. The guy's been taking crap all over before and after releasing FEZ, think about all that negative feedback he's been constantly getting ever since. And yes, most of the times that crap was in some way related to something retardedly stupid that he said, something that any public figure with common sense would never say in a open public channel such as Twitter. But there's only so much crap a person can take before everything bursts out, and in the case of our dear Phil Fish, him being the outspoken hot-headed man-child we know, this Twitter blowup was only expected of him.

Once again, I'm neither defending nor attacking Fish. The man fails to understand that making a rather successful indie game made him a public figure in the gaming industry, and as such he should think before talking (or Tweeting) about something that can potentially end up in crap like this. What upsets me is the way this article keeps on reinforcing the same "Phil Fish is an asshole" kind-of-meme and pushes readers into disliking this character and to keep making fun of him, instead of giving actual complete information and letting readers decide if it's worth defending his reasoning or not.
Pretty much this, agreed wholeheartedly. Some writers on the Escapist should definitely be kicked off the news team.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Beer is definitely an arrogant, hack asshole, but Fish has no right to claim the moral high ground. If Fish is going to throw a tantrum then go ahead. If he can't cut it in the industry knowing the amount of scrutiny you'll get in the professional world (especially in a creative industry) then it's probably best for your mental health to leave. For Beer, he COULD try to curb the stereotype of the arrogant pseudo-intellectual journalist, but instead just gobbles it up like the prick he is. This kind of behavior on both sides disgusts me and really shows some ugly sides of the industry that need to be fixed.
 

Riobux

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Andy of Comix Inc said:
It should create value of life, yes. Loss of human life is always a loss. No exception. Especially when it's a preventable loss like from suicide. Hell, especially from suicide.

I was suicidal once. I still am, even. And you know, I may not offer anything to humanity as a whole but my life still means things to people. And my death would still have been a loss. Even if it's not by my taking of life explicitly, the people that have to find my body, the people who drive the bus I step in front of... people lose out, even if its not just because I'm gone.
The key word you said is "should". In it's self it's worthless. No one is going to congratulate you by proclaiming "well, Andy lives". What people are likely going to do is congratulate you for physical, mental and social products. However, even then this does not create value for everyone. If I got hit by a car tomorrow, you wouldn't care nor would find my death a loss (at least beyond the "well, every life is worth something" mantra). I haven't accomplished anything that could be described a product that has value to you.

Your optimism is useful if suffering from depression, but the reality of it is this: Human beings are selfish jerks that wouldn't like you unconditionally. It more plays out like the infamous Glengarry Glen Ross speech.
Your life means what it can provide to others. Products of value. As cold as it sounds me stating it: You haven't provided a product to me that I can say has value. You have to others, but for me there's nothing. You could kill yourself tomorrow and I wouldn't skip much of a heart beat because, to me, nothing of value was lost. The key part of the phrase is value isn't universal, value of items vary with each person who is perceiving said object. To me, Phil Fish hasn't provided anything of value to me. To you he might of, you might of enjoyed Fez. However, I'm deeply apathetic about Fez and therefore if Fish killed himself tomorrow nothing of value would be lost to me.
 

rasputin0009

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"Fuck you guys! I'm taking my ball and going home!"

No sympathy. Whiny children like that have a hard time keeping friends.
 

unstabLized

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Wow.. What a freaking child... Sucks for the Fez fans though, but don't worry, you don't need a kiddy developer like this guy anyway. Althoug Beer ain't much himself either... but still.
 

KDR_11k

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It takes two to tango and Phish wasn't exactly a calming influence on his conversation partners.

When you're a public figure people see what you say and if you act like a CoD player people will see you as a terrible person.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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T-Shirt Turtle said:
Completely cancelling a game many fans are probably anticipating is rude and basically amounts to raising a giant middle finger at all gamers, good or bad.
A fan is nothing more than a customer likely to return if a new product arises. If he no longer sees value in exchanging his efforts to make a product, that's not rude. The man doesn't owe you anything you haven't bought and paid for.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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I guess I'm one of the few people who wish him well and understand that he has every right to be a screaming child. If you don't like the abuse that people give, feel free to leave, because seriously those people are fucking venomous and deserve whatever shit they throw.
 

Innegativeion

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DVS BSTrD said:
And Fez 2 was gunna have Blackjack and Hookers, but now forget Fez 2 and the Blackjack.
You should boycott twitter harder
Nerd.
Funnily enough he seems to have been just quoting futurama.

Too bad he missed the part where it's funny in futurama because it's a fictional character being inhumanly nasty to other fictional characters.

What an ass.

Riobux said:
snip;;**Did I really just read that?**
 

Stevepinto3

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Fish is an idiot. Fez is a fine game and all, but that doesn't make you criticism proof for making it.

Really though I think the most important thing to realize is that this man just burnt his career to the ground because of a twitter fight.

That might be somewhat simplified and it's true that he's received a lot of flak, but that's because he's gone and put himself in the spotlight. A lot of this probably started with the backlash from his "japan doesn't make any good games" comment, but since then he has done nothing but add fuel to the fire.

It's so insane that you would just stop making games, i.e. the one thing you have been dedicating your time and livelihood to, because of such trivial crap as "some guy on some website sad bad things about me". If you want to be, as you said, "the face of gaming" you have to deal with people saying not nice things.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Riobux said:
Andy of Comix Inc said:
It should create value of life, yes. Loss of human life is always a loss. No exception. Especially when it's a preventable loss like from suicide. Hell, especially from suicide.

I was suicidal once. I still am, even. And you know, I may not offer anything to humanity as a whole but my life still means things to people. And my death would still have been a loss. Even if it's not by my taking of life explicitly, the people that have to find my body, the people who drive the bus I step in front of... people lose out, even if its not just because I'm gone.
The key word you said is "should". In it's self it's worthless. No one is going to congratulate you by proclaiming "well, Andy lives". What people are likely going to do is congratulate you for physical, mental and social products. However, even then this does not create value for everyone. If I got hit by a car tomorrow, you wouldn't care nor would find my death a loss (at least beyond the "well, every life is worth something" mantra). I haven't accomplished anything that could be described a product that has value to you.
Yes, but if you kill yourself, you'll never get a chance to.

I should explain, I think preventable human life is a loss. I don't mean to imply that it removes value, though - it is instead the absence of a value, of an asset. It might not directly take something existing from the world, but it takes something that DOESN'T exist - a hole, if you will, from which no good can come. I mean if everyone is flatlining, those dips are going to be noticeable, too.

And to be honest, suicide is probably most abhorrent because the only people it effects are the people left behind. I won't care if you step in front of a bus, it's true, but the bus driver and everyone on it might. The person who discovers your hanging corpse is going to actively have a much worse day because of that suicide. No parent wants to have to plan their child's funeral. Nothing there is added because of suicide, it is only taken away - value is not removed but value is certainly pulled away, shoved to the side, almost. Your "value" in being alive is that no-one has to deal with the event of your death. At the least.

I dunno, I mean really, the simple answer to this is that you should probably just try being empathetic instead of being a nihilistic downer all the time.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Eclectic Dreck said:
T-Shirt Turtle said:
Completely cancelling a game many fans are probably anticipating is rude and basically amounts to raising a giant middle finger at all gamers, good or bad.
A fan is nothing more than a customer likely to return if a new product arises. If he no longer sees value in exchanging his efforts to make a product, that's not rude. The man doesn't owe you anything you haven't bought and paid for.
Rude or not, there's no denying that dropping development for an eagerly anticipated sequel simply because you had a shit-slinging match with someone is pretty fucking stupid.
 

Azaraxzealot

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hazabaza1 said:
Steven Bogos said:
"im being attacked CONSTANTLY. and i can't fight back? ever? yeah that seems fair."
Maybe if he wasn't such a **** he wouldn't have to fight back.

Honestly, the way he acts, he's surprised that he gets shit? He gives people no reason to believe he's not a giant prick.
So... because he's honest, open, and speaks his mind that makes him a giant prick? See, this is why we can't have a more transparent game industry that is direct and honest with us, the consumers, because the consumers just rip the heads off of any developer that dares to say anything other than PR-Friendly drivel and is expected to take all the abuse we load on them without even so much as a peep, otherwise they are a "giant prick" or "such a ****".

I'm going to miss Phil, he may not have made a game I actually WANTED to play, but he was EXACTLY the kind of developer this industry needs to instill a positive change in this festering stagnation. One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON instead of some nebulous, unseen developer who only shows his face to say something factual about whatever they're working on, hype it up a little, then disappear back to the office. However, I guess the industry is just not ready to accept that people with a bit of fame and credibility are actually people too who have differing opinions, emotions, and lives outside of their career. This moment right here has just made the game industry's developers retreat just a little farther into their offices, since it seems all they think we expect, nay, DEMAND of them is to keep their mouths shut unless they give us more information on their games and at all other times just work on games.
 

Deathfish15

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Infernal Lawyer said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
T-Shirt Turtle said:
Completely cancelling a game many fans are probably anticipating is rude and basically amounts to raising a giant middle finger at all gamers, good or bad.
A fan is nothing more than a customer likely to return if a new product arises. If he no longer sees value in exchanging his efforts to make a product, that's not rude. The man doesn't owe you anything you haven't bought and paid for.
Rude or not, there's no denying that dropping development for an eagerly anticipated sequel simply because you had a shit-slinging match with someone is pretty fucking stupid.
No, what's rude is all the gamers and reviewers alike that decide that their entitled to be the know-all, end-all decision on the video games that the developers make. That this entitlement spews over into "boorish fuck" speak against the developers.

I applaud a person not putting up with bullshit anymore. I applaud them saying "no" to the entitlement generation. And, I applaud him for calling out those self-centered, opinionated pricks at GT.com for what they are: know-nothing judgmental voices.

Some may see it as "bad business", but really that needs to be the furthest thing to consider at all. How about some basic fucking humanity towards a talented individual? No wonder he went off the deep end. Sheesh!
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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well......

thats some kind of internet mobbing everybody seems to be ok with it.

and it doesnt matter that he is a dick. you simply dont harrass a person out of his job.
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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Well, so long Phil. Thanks for FEZ (which really was a great game, by the way). I wish you all the best in your future endeavors, whatever they may be. Although, to be honest, no matter which artistic industry you go into, you're going to encounter people like Marcus Beer. You're going to cop criticism. The Games Industry can be abusive, but so can any industry.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Infernal Lawyer said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
T-Shirt Turtle said:
Completely cancelling a game many fans are probably anticipating is rude and basically amounts to raising a giant middle finger at all gamers, good or bad.
A fan is nothing more than a customer likely to return if a new product arises. If he no longer sees value in exchanging his efforts to make a product, that's not rude. The man doesn't owe you anything you haven't bought and paid for.
Rude or not, there's no denying that dropping development for an eagerly anticipated sequel simply because you had a shit-slinging match with someone is pretty fucking stupid.
Maybe it was just the straw that broke the camel's back? Seems like he's got some pretty pent up anger.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Deathfish15 said:
Infernal Lawyer said:
Rude or not, there's no denying that dropping development for an eagerly anticipated sequel simply because you had a shit-slinging match with someone is pretty fucking stupid.
No, what's rude is all the gamers and reviewers alike that decide that their entitled to be the know-all, end-all decision on the video games that the developers make. That this entitlement spews over into "boorish fuck" speak against the developers.

I applaud a person not putting up with bullshit anymore. I applaud them saying "no" to the entitlement generation. And, I applaud him for calling out those self-centered, opinionated pricks at GT.com for what they are: know-nothing judgmental voices.

Some may see it as "bad business", but really that needs to be the furthest thing to consider at all. How about some basic fucking humanity towards a talented individual? No wonder he went off the deep end. Sheesh!
As much as I hate to say it, no-one's going to see this is as 'saying 'no' to the entitlement generation, they're going to see it as "fuck you then, I'm taking my cool toys home with me". As I've stated elsewhere, this is pretty much a spat between two arseholes, with the only difference that one is actually producing something relevant to the industry (Oh fine, I'll say it's Phil so you don't take that the wrong way), and unfortunately people are going to see this as Fish 'ruining' the sequel by throwing a tantrum, rather than the reviewer for initiating it. Note that I'm stating what OTHER people will think; whether or not I agree with his 'Show it to the man' attitude is really irrelevant.

People have already stated not only that he should get off Twitter if he can't handle the abuse, but also that he's perfectly capable of dishing out his own shit on other people without much reason, regardless of his inability to take it, which is really fucking stupid when you're in the gaming world's public eye. This is not what I think, he literally has a REPUTATION for being an jerk and acting surprised when the favor is returned, or responding to shit with his own crap.

And he didn't call anyone out, he just called them NAMES, told them to kill themselves using a crappy Futurama reference, said 'we're not going anywhere'... and then ragequited anyhow. THIS is how you call someone out:

1337mokro said:
"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere. Get used to it because you will be reporting on my success stories for a long while more."

There you go Philly. A snarky comeback where you applaud yourself, scoff at him for being a decrepit old media parasite and basically do take the high-ground whilst still denigrating him to nothing more than someone who will be heralding your achievements.

That is how someone would react if they weren't hipster tosspot douchebags. It's best if you keep to making games and not engaging in empty exchanges of excessive insults.
I'll be the first to agree that this could very well have been the straw that broke the camel's back, and that he has every right to stop development for Fez 2 if he damn well wants to, and finally that this reviewer was being nothing more than an aggressive tosspot... But noone else will. There're just going to see it as Fish saying "Because some stupid fucking retards, you know, the ones that populate EVERY community, especially this one, said some nasty words that I didn't like, you're not getting the highly anticipated sequel to my game, because I can't stay off Twitter or learn to ignore people who say stupid crap about me." Considering that the internet is literally currently ringing with the phrase "And nothing of value was lost", as much as I despise it, I seriously doubt that I'm wrong about this.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Infernal Lawyer said:
Rude or not, there's no denying that dropping development for an eagerly anticipated sequel simply because you had a shit-slinging match with someone is pretty fucking stupid.