Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

[Atmos Duality]

There must not be much of worth to report on if this manchild's tantrum is newsworthy.
He's even gone and removed himself from the equation.

 

[Strain42]

This basically seems to be how Phil Fish works

Phil Fish: "anybody still buying nintendo hardware is either socially underdeveloped or emotionally stunted. or both." (an actual quote from him)

Internet: Stop being a total asshole for no raisin! (since apparently quoting Futurama makes anything okay according to this thread)

Phil Fish: WHAT!? I'm not an asshole! Fuck all ya'll! Eat my dick on a sandwich with a side of steak fries and a kosher pickle and then engage in one of your murder suicude pacts, nerds! (not an actual quote from him)

I'm going to assume that Phil got a LOT of backlash over that statement, and then probably attributes that to his "daily abuse" but it's something he brought on himself. I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of the personal attacks that the man gets could have been avoided if he just hadn't decided to go "I'm going to say something that will probably upset people now."

If he hadn't been such a prick, the worst he would've been known for is being that guy who made that fairly decent indie game. Like any indie developer he would've gotten the hipster or elitist name thrown at him a fair amount, but I'd wager that's still better than...y'know...douche...fucker...prick, and so on.

Beer is an asshole too, no doubt about that. So it's hard to root for anyone in this fight. But in my eyes this is a fight between some guy I've never even heard of vs. a developer that is already pretty known for starting fights and stirring up controversy.

 

[TheDoctor455]

I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?

Indeed. Especially in Fish's case, who gets abuse more or less constantly. Doesn't matter who you are, deal with that for a year or two straight and it wears you down. At this point his patience for insults is pretty much gone, so yeah. Totally understandable to see him react this way.

Plus, some of the others say he had some kind of depression going on.

So let's see...

Depression + Constant Abuse for a couple of years + Twatter...

hmm... yeah... I don't wonder that he finally blew it. I'm surprised it took this long.

 

[level27smartass]

I'm I the only one who finds Fish's comment kind of awesome god forbid some one who gets shit tossed in their face say something hurtful.

 

[RA92]

Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

 

[Dorian Cornelius Jasper]

One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON instead of some nebulous, unseen developer who only shows his face to say something factual about whatever they're working on, hype it up a little, then disappear back to the office.

Thing is, normal people have to deal with the consequences of their words and actions, without the shield of "PR blandspeak" to protect them. We really do. It's why we try not to be terrible to other people, we'll usually get flack for it, at the very least.

It's entirely possible to be a normal person without being a constant douchebag to enough people that it becomes your entire reputation. It's also entirely possible to be a normal person and take it on the chin when your Futurama reference gets misinterpreted.

So yes, Phil Fish is a normal person. Who also happens to be a thin-skinned, arrogant, scheming blowhard. It wasn't long ago that when Fez was in an indie games contest, he tried to get one of his competitors disqualified for landing a publishing deal and ceasing to be "indie," when at the same time he was hammering out a similar deal for Fez--he's not just a jerk, he's a venomous snake.

Over the course of years of making an ass of himself in public, he made his bed, decided to lie in it, and then subsequently threw his bed out the window and lit his bedroom on fire when he realized it was too hard.

Surely he is the champion of gaming development reform we all desperately needed.

 

[RaikuFA]

Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

I believe it was how he was presented in IG:TM. How he was upset people didn't "get" the message in Braid.

 

[Vigormortis]

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

 

[poiuppx]

Fish's attitude and lack of social graces were my main reason for holding off on purchasing Fez, in spite of the praise it had gotten. This outburst has changed my views very little, and only in the downward direction.

 

[Skeleon]

I see he keeps getting in trouble with people from a wide variety of places. I may be wrong here, but to my knowledge McMillen isn't on the best of terms, either, so it's not just an issue with "the evil media". Maybe Fish is just a dick?

 

[RaikuFA]

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

Oh definetly hes also an ass, it just seems like people keep going "Beers the worst, he's picking on a developer who's done nothing wrong." It's like the bully beating up the guy who won't stop talking down to everyone and thinking he's better than everyone. Yeah you still hate the bully, but that kid really needed his ass kicked.

 

[klaynexas3]

Well at least he knows when to get out of something if it's not good for himself. Even so, maybe he could try a different approach, like being an anonymous indie developer. Then, when he gets pissed off at people on the internet, he can say it as himself, in which case, no one will listen, nor care, and thus not hurl any more shit at him for that. At any rate, he's definitely got some problems he needs to work on himself. And if he truly has a love of games, then after he gets his own problems sorted out, my bet is he'll come back. Or maybe he's a giant attention whore and just wanted to become internet famous, so he decided the best way to do it was to make a game.

 

[Rad Party God]

What a whiny little *****.
Good riddance I say, his shitty game was a poor attempt at being artsy fartsy anyways.

 

[Alhazred]

Interesting bit of obscure Phil Fish trivia for you.

Fez was nominated for best Indie Game in some award ceremony or another, along with with The Binding of Isaac. I'm not entirely sure of the details (I'm remembering this from the Tvtropes article on Isaac), but I think Fish voted against Isaac. Edmund McMillen wasn't happy about his game being insulted, but thankfully is mature enough not to take to Twitter to start a flame war. Instead, he gave one of the characters in Isaac a little Fez as a nod to Fish.

But here's the rub; that character is called Judas. So you see, even fellow indie developers can't stand Fish.

 

[Riobux]

Well I meant to say it is easy to spot it and manage it... it is less easy to act on those managements. I mean I've been seeing psychologists nonstop for the past 5 years, taking the same anti-depressant medication... it is a long, arduous process. But the first step is noticing and getting yourself in - and that bit is only as hard as you believe it to be. That's what I meant to say.

I want to say, I'm really sorry I've dragged this out. I'm not so much upset or offended by your views... I'm more fascinated. I guess I've taught myself to think this way because it's what's kept my neck out of a noose; I believe that suicide is a selfish act because that helps me to not do it. It's what my parents told me. I really can't leave them alone if I can help it, y'know?

As for Phil Fish though... you say that nothing of value would be lost if he killed himself. This is where I kind of assumed you lacked empathy - there's a strain in there of "I don't mind if he kills himself, because I don't care about him." And my response, well, he's human - someone, somewhere cares about him. His life gives value to someone. Hell, he's a creative - I know I loved FEZ along with quite a few other people... is that not a value?

It's the idea that "nothing of value is lost [to me]" that kind of made me consider you might be a bit on the nihilistic side, lacking a bit of compassion, or the ability to put value on people's lives beyond what they can offer (or have offered) to you. That's why I leapt at you; you've proven this is merely a difference of opinion, though, not something more insidious as I had incorrectly assumed.

It's totally fine. It's an interesting discussion pretty much, and I'm glad it was just a discussion and not a full blown argument. With regards to it helping you during your dark moments, that's really fair enough. I've had a few moments, and usually the fear of the unknown has been enough to make me chicken out. It's now a case where I see being alive akin to purgatory, but I'll live. Would I seek help? Eh, no. I see the pessimism and cynicism as helpful in an academic field that is pretty much all about criticising society and humanity. Not to mention, as weird as it sounds, I get the feeling I'd lose my true self by being told there is a correct way to be and a wrong way to be. There's also the fact it'd end up on a medical record and hurt job prospects. There's a few other reasons but it gets more tedious, such as the paranoia of the difference between depression and the normal human experience.

Is it value to me that others enjoyed Fez? Not particularly. I don't mind what others enjoy or don't enjoy. It doesn't really affect me too greatly. However, I don't doubt that to others the fact that Fez has fascinated so many people is of great value to them, but to me it's not something that interests me greatly. After all, I'm sure some games I love would inspire a look of confusion or possibly even ire in others such as Kane & Lynch: Dead Men. It helps to not get too invested in other's opinions.

I will admit though I do lack compassion in comparison to most people I think. It's hard to pin down very particular examples, but I tend to be the type of person who would look the other way than help someone.

 

[LordMonty]

Well this could be more stupid and offensive but everyone would have get more emotionally involved. No loss to gaming, Fez was 'ok' so we'll live without another.

 

[Rossmallo]

Wow. I'm usually never happy to see a game get shut down (You should have SEEN how I reacted when Radical and by proxy a potential Prototype 3 got canned), but...I have absoloutly no sympathy for this dude. He acted like a complete twonk and paid the price for it, showing how utterly immature he is in the process and sullying the name of his game forever.

And before anyone wheels out the "The amount of abuse he got made him do this" argument, go take a look at the Runescape forums. Seriously, after you finish reading this, go and read them. What I am about to say is not hyperbole at all: the community is about five times worse than 4chan, all centered on a single target. I legitimately think that if I was in the devs' position my entire stomach would be one big ulser if I had to endure that sort of vitriol, but Jagex keeps a level of professionalism, level-headedness and politeness that a saint running a multimillion company would.

So saying that he was justified in his actions before he was complained at is a copout.

 

[Adfest]

We've all said cruel things to others whether they deserve it or not. Anyone who claims they haven't are lying. Telling someone who is antagonizing you to kill themselves doesn't make you "not human". Immature and reactive maybe, but it doesn't make you the scourge of humanity.

It's obvious that Fish has social issues and a temper. Anyone who trolls him is no better than him at his worst. Yeah, great job! You got a negative reaction out of him and he made an ass of himself yet again. I could easily make someone with anger issues wig out if I try hard enough. Does that make them the shithead, or me?

If he doesn't like making Fez II and wants to call it quits, that's his choice regardless of the circumstances. There's no reason for an indi developer to make a game they don't really want to make. If he hated it that much it's probably for the best anyway. It's not that this guy is a politician or a cop who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. Cut the guy a break.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I think there needs to be a corprate bi-law or something, that prevents employees from having Twitter accounts. Cause nothing good ever seems to come from it.

Might as well annihilate Twitter outright.

That or a "you have this much common sense to register account with us" thing (it's funny cause most celebrities who use twitter don't seem to have that much).