Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

[Bluestorm83]

This puts me in a rare situation. I don't even give enough of a shit about any of this, because neither of these people matter at all to me since one is someone I've never met and the other is someone I've never met, and yet not saying anything might give people the impression that I don't know about this.

But I do know about this. I don't care how rich or successful one is, I don't care if the other offs himself, I don't even have any confirmation that either of them exist. Non story.

 

[shrekfan246]

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

I'm not on either side, myself.

Beer was an ass.

Fish has done things to deserve it--Aside from the low blows Beer took, he had a point that Jon Blow and Phil Fish are extremely prominent members of indie gaming, and as such should be prepared for the media asking them questions about indie development and the treatment indie developers get. If they're going to talk up their own games as the coming of Christ in gaming form, they should be willing to answer questions not about themselves or their games, or they should be prepared to take criticism for how they spurn the media.

Fish overreacted (in my opinion) to Beer's use of the words "tosspot" and "hipster", and announcing that he's cancelling development of the game just screams of childishness to me. But some people take the internet hate machine more seriously than others, and so at the same time I feel bad that the vitriol has managed to push a likely talented developer out of the field entirely by constantly hounding him, whether he's made stupid or arrogant comments in the past or not.

 

[EHKOS]

I can see a meme of Fish just staring angrily at Bryan Cranston.

While I can see fighting back is fair, it wasn't a huge insult, and while you could call him a parasite or a twat, telling someone to kill themselves is a bit over the line.

I didn't like Fez myself but my heart goes out to the people looking forwards to it.

 

[ben---neb]

Ok, so he got angry, lost it and said exaggerated angry things. This is a bad thing. But we've all said things we regret. It would be nice if we all cut him some slack. I doubt he actually wants the person in question to kill themselves.

Also:

We've all said cruel things to others whether they deserve it or not. Anyone who claims they haven't are lying. Telling someone who is antagonizing you to kill themselves doesn't make you "not human". Immature and reactive maybe, but it doesn't make you the scourge of humanity.

It's obvious that Fish has social issues and a temper. Anyone who trolls him is no better than him at his worst. Yeah, great job! You got a negative reaction out of him and he made an ass of himself yet again. I could easily make someone with anger issues wig out if I try hard enough. Does that make them the shithead, or me?

If he doesn't like making Fez II and wants to call it quits, that's his choice regardless of the circumstances. There's no reason for an indi developer to make a game they don't really want to make. If he hated it that much it's probably for the best anyway. It's not that this guy is a politician or a cop who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. Cut the guy a break.

Thank you sir for being reasonable.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

I just got a report back from my doctor, and it looks like I'm completely free of sympathy for either of these two assholes.

Only a cretin dishes out more than they can take.

 

[orangeapples]

I know how to fix the game industry. Lets remove everyone in the industry who are childish and idiots. Then when nobody is around to be making games anymore there will be no more bad games.

I love the people in these comments >_>

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

I commented earlier, but having some time to calm down, and see things work out, here's what I have to say.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with people siding with Fish. After all, what Beers said was a bit over the line. Maybe the Futurama reference was unnecessary, and should have been left out, especially one as obscure as that one is.

That aside, if any AAA developer were to say something like this in response to a critic like Beers, how many people would be supporting the developer? Probably not the same number supporting Fish? Why is that? Is it because he should be given a free pass because he only makes games for fun, not for a living? Fact is, he is making money on Fez. As soon as that became a source of income for him, he became a video game developer, and should be held to the same professional standards as one.

 

[Ticklefist]

He made half a million dollars this month. He ain't leaving games. He should see someone about his impulse control issues tho.

 

[geldonyetich]

Silly media. Phil didn't tell that guy to kill himself. He recycled an Internet meme on him. One that originated from a Futurama quote [http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0013041/quotes].

Bender: Game's over, losers! I have all the money. Compare your lives to mine and then kill yourselves.

Naturally, it sounded a lot funnier in his head.

Can't see myself missing Fez II much. Didn't play the first game, but I saw the gameplay. It's just a cute 3D puzzler, something you can see droves of on the iTunes apple store. Not exactly hipster props. Maybe Phil should get out of games if he's getting so stressed out about developing them that he can't manage that without getting bombastic.

In short, Phil should be ashamed of himself for losing his temper in public, and is. He's so ashamed he's running from game development for saying something that would qualify for a wry compliment from Derek Smart. Meanwhile, the media should be ashamed of itself for being the media. Go see a Charlie Brooker documentary if you don't get that latter bit.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

So his response to someone saying that he can't handle scrutiny is to show everyone just how much he can't handle scrutiny?

Well... good job I guess?

 

[Dogstile]

I like how the original post fails to quote anything said by Mr beer, and laughably describes what he says as "Criticism"

"Have you seen these wankers ***** and moan?Phil Fish in particular," Beer said. When a panelist offered that Fish seemed "whiny," Beer interrupted, "Whiny? He's a fucking asshole most of the time."

A tiny exerpt of a 3 minute rant in which there is basically only insults thrown.

And i'd just like to remind everyone that, had this happened on this site, Fish would have never got a chance to tell Beer to kill himself; Because Beer would have been banned by a Mod for insulting other members.

Oh but no, Escapist, keep representing Beer as some innocent "Member of the media" who was only "Criticising".

This. Seriously, i've read most of the comments on here and most range from just "he's a prick" to "if you can't handle it, don't use twitter".

Or how about you don't be an abusive asshole to someone just because you don't like them. Get some class.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

snip

snip

So... because he's honest, open, and speaks his mind that makes him a giant prick?

Yes, because... shocking as this may sound, you can speak your mind and articulate points w/o being a jerk.

I'm going to miss Phil, he may not have made a game I actually WANTED to play, but he was EXACTLY the kind of developer this industry needs to instill a positive change in this festering stagnation. One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON

"Normal Person" with a serious case of thin skin for someone making games. We must know an entirely different set of "normal" people, cuz the ones I know can function w/o being assholes all the time and possess some modicum of self awareness. Like, say, being inflammatory with remarks on twitter is a magnet for the kind of abuse that Fish claims to hate getting.

The AAA games industry may be stale and might need shaking up, and Fish has points about not being beholden to publishers for certain things and being allowed freedom. Valid points, I might add. But the indie games scene has an image too, and Fish is exactly the picture of what a lot of people think. Some unstable, pompous asshat, who goes off the handle when someone calls him or his art mean names. People like Marcus get paid to do what they do, doesn't matter if its right, its reality. Reality should be known and understood. Fish said he still liked twitter, but if the bad started to outweigh the good, he should have dropped it and left, especially if it was affecting hims so negatively.

I guess the industry is just not ready to accept that people with a bit of fame and credibility are actually people too who have differing opinions, emotions, and lives outside of their career.

Who cares about the lives outside their career? I hope they are happy and fulfilled, enjoying life, but as a consumer I want to know how the game I'm excited for is going along. This isn't E! You think most gamers care about that crap?

Developers aren't going back into their offices, the smart ones aren't anyway. They should be saying.. "hmm when people are assholes on twitter, bad things happen. Maybe I should be more on point when I talk to fans and watch what I say."

I stand 100% by everything I said. Just because someone has a level of fame does not automatically mean they should not be allowed to be who they are. At that point you are turning what was once a person into a caricature, and not only that, but the caricature you WANT them to be, and judging from the comments here, everyone has fallen into the groupthink fallacy and are being run by mob mentality. Even I am getting flak just for saying something different than most people here are.

And you're right, this ISN'T E!, so people should stop acting like it is and stop holding on to all the little things he said to upset people and casting him as a caricature instead of a person. No one seemed to report on any of the good things Phil Fish did, or all the shit he stirred up that SHOULD be stirred up (like the obvious race discrepancy in our games we all just willfully ignore), people just cling to the same three stories about him that pissed people off and refuse to let go of them. And the only reason they ARE big stories is because of media leeches just as Phil Fish described. Would be all be so hard on him if NO ONE reported on the inflammatory things he said? Of course not, the media only chose to report on the bad and not the good (just like FOX news and all the other evil news stations).

I don't want a games industry run by PR-friendly tosspots who only speak PR-inese. I want an industry run by accessible, REAL people who say REAL things on their minds and have REAL lives outside of their games. Why would anyone want our games industry to be some kind of PR-friendly machine that only drip-feeds information and hype to us? That's exactly what is causing problems like Aliens: Colonial Marines and the perpetual silence that Valve has. To be clear, this isn't SPECIFICALLY about Phil Fish, this is about how we as fans/consumers treat people like him. We make the industry afraid to communicate and be transparent with us because if the loud assholes who seem to be our entire population are the SLIGHTEST bit unhappy, then here comes the hate and abuse train. And Phil Fish was completely right in his feeling of helplessness and aimless rage when it comes to the fact that we can say and do whatever the fuck we want to him and other members of the industry, but if they dare lift a FINGER against us then we're justified in piling on MORE abuse? These people walk on eggshells every day because of the 99% of commenters like in this comments thread all over the internet, and we all wonder why new information and transparency is so hard to get from these people. The amount of flak to what Phil Fish says is completely disproportional and mostly uncalled for. I'm sure more than a few of us have told HIM to kill himself or said his game sucks or said Western games suck, yet I don't see anyone bringing out the pitchforks for every single person who says those things.

It's hypocritical to think that just because he has a level of fame and notoriety that he automatically has to act in a specific manner that we arbitrarily decided. Just because he gained a bigger soapbox than most people does not automatically mean he has to stop being who he is or receive MORE abuse for who he is. That's just wrong, and it demonstrated a level of entitlement that, frankly, we just shouldn't have.

And this is a reply for ALL who retorted to me.

I like how the original post fails to quote anything said by Mr beer, and laughably describes what he says as "Criticism"

"Have you seen these wankers ***** and moan?Phil Fish in particular," Beer said. When a panelist offered that Fish seemed "whiny," Beer interrupted, "Whiny? He's a fucking asshole most of the time."

A tiny exerpt of a 3 minute rant in which there is basically only insults thrown.

And i'd just like to remind everyone that, had this happened on this site, Fish would have never got a chance to tell Beer to kill himself; Because Beer would have been banned by a Mod for insulting other members.

Oh but no, Escapist, keep representing Beer as some innocent "Member of the media" who was only "Criticising".

This. Seriously, i've read most of the comments on here and most range from just "he's a prick" to "if you can't handle it, don't use twitter".

Or how about you don't be an abusive asshole to someone just because you don't like them. Get some class.

Yes, I agree with this as well. The media is only reporting on one side of the issue, the side that paints the media in the role of the victim, and it's just bad and unethical journalism.

 

[Bat Vader]

snip

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So... because he's honest, open, and speaks his mind that makes him a giant prick?

Yes, because... shocking as this may sound, you can speak your mind and articulate points w/o being a jerk.

I'm going to miss Phil, he may not have made a game I actually WANTED to play, but he was EXACTLY the kind of developer this industry needs to instill a positive change in this festering stagnation. One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON

"Normal Person" with a serious case of thin skin for someone making games. We must know an entirely different set of "normal" people, cuz the ones I know can function w/o being assholes all the time and possess some modicum of self awareness. Like, say, being inflammatory with remarks on twitter is a magnet for the kind of abuse that Fish claims to hate getting.

The AAA games industry may be stale and might need shaking up, and Fish has points about not being beholden to publishers for certain things and being allowed freedom. Valid points, I might add. But the indie games scene has an image too, and Fish is exactly the picture of what a lot of people think. Some unstable, pompous asshat, who goes off the handle when someone calls him or his art mean names. People like Marcus get paid to do what they do, doesn't matter if its right, its reality. Reality should be known and understood. Fish said he still liked twitter, but if the bad started to outweigh the good, he should have dropped it and left, especially if it was affecting hims so negatively.

I guess the industry is just not ready to accept that people with a bit of fame and credibility are actually people too who have differing opinions, emotions, and lives outside of their career.

Who cares about the lives outside their career? I hope they are happy and fulfilled, enjoying life, but as a consumer I want to know how the game I'm excited for is going along. This isn't E! You think most gamers care about that crap?

Developers aren't going back into their offices, the smart ones aren't anyway. They should be saying.. "hmm when people are assholes on twitter, bad things happen. Maybe I should be more on point when I talk to fans and watch what I say."

I stand 100% by everything I said. Just because someone has a level of fame does not automatically mean they should not be allowed to be who they are. At that point you are turning what was once a person into a caricature, and not only that, but the caricature you WANT them to be, and judging from the comments here, everyone has fallen into the groupthink fallacy and are being run by mob mentality. Even I am getting flak just for saying something different than most people here are.

And you're right, this ISN'T E!, so people should stop acting like it is and stop holding on to all the little things he said to upset people and casting him as a caricature instead of a person. No one seemed to report on any of the good things Phil Fish did, or all the shit he stirred up that SHOULD be stirred up (like the obvious race discrepancy in our games we all just willfully ignore), people just cling to the same three stories about him that pissed people off and refuse to let go of them. And the only reason they ARE big stories is because of media leeches just as Phil Fish described. Would be all be so hard on him if NO ONE reported on the inflammatory things he said? Of course not, the media only chose to report on the bad and not the good (just like FOX news and all the other evil news stations).

I don't want a games industry run by PR-friendly tosspots who only speak PR-inese. I want an industry run by accessible, REAL people who say REAL things on their minds and have REAL lives outside of their games. Why would anyone want our games industry to be some kind of PR-friendly machine that only drip-feeds information and hype to us? That's exactly what is causing problems like Aliens: Colonial Marines and the perpetual silence that Valve has. To be clear, this isn't SPECIFICALLY about Phil Fish, this is about how we as fans/consumers treat people like him. We make the industry afraid to communicate and be transparent with us because if the loud assholes who seem to be our entire population are the SLIGHTEST bit unhappy, then here comes the hate and abuse train. And Phil Fish was completely right in his feeling of helplessness and aimless rage when it comes to the fact that we can say and do whatever the fuck we want to him and other members of the industry, but if they dare lift a FINGER against us then we're justified in piling on MORE abuse? These people walk on eggshells every day because of the 99% of commenters like in this comments thread all over the internet, and we all wonder why new information and transparency is so hard to get from these people. The amount of flak to what Phil Fish says is completely disproportional and mostly uncalled for. I'm sure more than a few of us have told HIM to kill himself or said his game sucks or said Western games suck, yet I don't see anyone bringing out the pitchforks for every single person who says those things.

It's hypocritical to think that just because he has a level of fame and notoriety that he automatically has to act in a specific manner that we arbitrarily decided. Just because he gained a bigger soapbox than most people does not automatically mean he has to stop being who he is or receive MORE abuse for who he is. That's just wrong, and it demonstrated a level of entitlement that, frankly, we just shouldn't have.

And this is a reply for ALL who retorted to me.

I like how the original post fails to quote anything said by Mr beer, and laughably describes what he says as "Criticism"

"Have you seen these wankers ***** and moan?Phil Fish in particular," Beer said. When a panelist offered that Fish seemed "whiny," Beer interrupted, "Whiny? He's a fucking asshole most of the time."

A tiny exerpt of a 3 minute rant in which there is basically only insults thrown.

And i'd just like to remind everyone that, had this happened on this site, Fish would have never got a chance to tell Beer to kill himself; Because Beer would have been banned by a Mod for insulting other members.

Oh but no, Escapist, keep representing Beer as some innocent "Member of the media" who was only "Criticising".

This. Seriously, i've read most of the comments on here and most range from just "he's a prick" to "if you can't handle it, don't use twitter".

Or how about you don't be an abusive asshole to someone just because you don't like them. Get some class.

Yes, I agree with this as well. The media is only reporting on one side of the issue, the side that paints the media in the role of the victim, and it's just bad and unethical journalism.

If Phil Fish wants to be rude and insult everyone on Twitter that is his choice. He really has no right to get angry when people take offense to how he acts and criticize him for acting the way he does. I was actually thinking of getting FEZ but now that I know how Phil Fish acts I have decided not to buy it. I refuse to support someone that acts like a child and can't maintain even a shred of professionalism.

 

[Wolf Hagen]

Usually I'd expect such people like Mr. Fish, to be on a Microphone on some Online FPS, shouting about you hacking, fucking your m,om, or bragging "Fing N00b! Kill yourself plz!".

This comming from a Game developer, the company can be GLAD, that this **** quittet, before he could do even more PR damage.

Note to self: Don't buy FEZ, it gives that guy money.

 

[michael87cn]

Wow, people really dislike this Phil guy.

I mean, they're defending a critic.

Critics are notorious for making their living off ruining others, and for being overly negative or just all out biased if paid off... For a critic (without provocation or reason) to call this guy a "Blowfish" obviously making fun of him and his co-developer, I can see the anger as justified. I also agree with someone else who posted that this seems like a fairly normal human response. The "kill yourself" thing, was definitely typed in anger and of course wasn't meant. It's kind of another way to say "f you" on the internet.

People in this thread are already calling him all kinds of things like douchebag etc.... and they know nothing about him except this 1 situation.

I can see how easy it must have been for mobs in the past to lynch and hate.

It's really quite depressing, and it shows just how effective a false witness could be. You can have an entire room of people hate someone they know nothing about.... by attesting to a single situation that may or may not have ever actually happened.

Bit depressing...

Forgiveness, patience, understanding, are important values we need to consider more often.

 

[solemnwar]

Wow, people really dislike this Phil guy.

I mean, they're defending a critic.

Critics are notorious for making their living off ruining others, and for being overly negative or just all out biased if paid off... For a critic (without provocation or reason) to call this guy a "Blowfish" obviously making fun of him and his co-developer, I can see the anger as justified. I also agree with someone else who posted that this seems like a fairly normal human response. The "kill yourself" thing, was definitely typed in anger and of course wasn't meant. It's kind of another way to say "f you" on the internet.

People in this thread are already calling him all kinds of things like douchebag etc.... and they know nothing about him except this 1 situation.

I can see how easy it must have been for mobs in the past to lynch and hate.

It's really quite depressing, and it shows just how effective a false witness could be. You can have an entire room of people hate someone they know nothing about.... by attesting to a single situation that may or may not have ever actually happened.

Bit depressing...

Forgiveness, patience, understanding, are important values we need to consider more often.

From what I can tell skimming the thread, it's not just THIS one event, there's a ton of things that happened before. Apparently he has a history of being a massive dick and flying off the handle at the slightest provocation. He dishes it out, and says people need to just suck it up because he can say what he wants, but when it goes the other way he throws a massive fit. Just look through the thread, people post specific examples.

 

[Cybylt]

Wow, people really dislike this Phil guy.

I mean, they're defending a critic.

Critics are notorious for making their living off ruining others, and for being overly negative or just all out biased if paid off... For a critic (without provocation or reason) to call this guy a "Blowfish" obviously making fun of him and his co-developer, I can see the anger as justified. I also agree with someone else who posted that this seems like a fairly normal human response. The "kill yourself" thing, was definitely typed in anger and of course wasn't meant. It's kind of another way to say "f you" on the internet.

People in this thread are already calling him all kinds of things like douchebag etc.... and they know nothing about him except this 1 situation.

I can see how easy it must have been for mobs in the past to lynch and hate.

It's really quite depressing, and it shows just how effective a false witness could be. You can have an entire room of people hate someone they know nothing about.... by attesting to a single situation that may or may not have ever actually happened.

Bit depressing...

Forgiveness, patience, understanding, are important values we need to consider more often.

This is far from an isolated incident though, if it were then it'd be completely different. This time he just blew up a little bit more than he has before and made it an even bigger spectacle by ending with "I QUIT."

His argument against Beer and anybody who spoke against him on twitter also boiled down to, "How dare you attack my character and the value of my work! That is rude and you should apologize. In fact it should be televised at PAX. Now sit there and shut up while I attack your character and the value of the work of the entirety of journalism." I believe his exact words were that they "Do nothing but masturbate vomit." So I'm not surprised most journalists will take the side of Beer.

Before that someone criticized him being awarded when his game wasn't even out yet, he had replied, "I just won the IGF. Suck my dick. Choke on it."

 

[WanderingFool]

I think there needs to be a corprate bi-law or something, that prevents employees from having Twitter accounts. Cause nothing good ever seems to come from it.

Might as well annihilate Twitter outright.

Now wait... is that actually a bad idea?

 

[Zyst]

I actually agree with the game dev. here. I think the article writing is also biased, it doesn't feel objective in the least. All in all, calling someone a stupid bald fuck, mind you, someone who is insulting you over bullshit and trying to get a reaction (and got it) feels like fair game to me. Then again, if you can't handle the social media pressure don't open a social media account so it kinda feels like lose/lose here.