UPDATED - Jack Thompson-Authored Truth In Advertising Bill Passes Utah House
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
So they've bought the US in line with the UK, then.
The law over here is you cannot sell age-related products to anyone under the age specified or to someone you believe is buying it for a youngster. So when a bloke comes in and stumbles up to the counter and asks for Halo Killzone 3, you know to refuse him.
Simple, really.
The law over here is you cannot sell age-related products to anyone under the age specified or to someone you believe is buying it for a youngster. So when a bloke comes in and stumbles up to the counter and asks for Halo Killzone 3, you know to refuse him.
Simple, really.
Once again, Thompson's principled response makes things worse. The ends don't justify the means, but the means don't justify the ends either.
Dear god what next. I think he's aiming to be public enemy #1 for the gaming community. If so he's doing a damn good job of it. Ultimately, his goal is to get rid of gaming all together because "it poses a threat to society" well sorry old Jack, gaming is here to stay. DEAL WITH IT!! Now watch, I'll laugh my ass off if we find out later on that his son is a hardcore gamer. Life works in funny ways like that.
I have to agree on the whole "I'm not seeing the big issue here"
putting this *thing* through is extremly pointless as it's redundantly saying the exact same thing ANOTHER thing says isn't it? "We promise not to sell to underagers" they sell to underagers BAM lawsuit. I can only see this as a way for people to be reminded that they can sue eachother.
Yes technically this law isn't encroaching on anyones rights, as it's just backing up something else thats said
on the OTHER hand, it's also extremly pointless to be put through and will only stir up more trouble then it's worth.
The primary reason his son plays so many games and doesn't respect his father is because his dad spends all his time acting like a self righteous tool trying to impose his own beliefes on things and not spending any time with his kid to earn his respect.
putting this *thing* through is extremly pointless as it's redundantly saying the exact same thing ANOTHER thing says isn't it? "We promise not to sell to underagers" they sell to underagers BAM lawsuit. I can only see this as a way for people to be reminded that they can sue eachother.
Yes technically this law isn't encroaching on anyones rights, as it's just backing up something else thats said
on the OTHER hand, it's also extremly pointless to be put through and will only stir up more trouble then it's worth.
btw, fun fact: the wanker who is primarily in charge in australia for resisting r18+ games here... his son is a hardcore gamer.NiceGurl_14 said:
The primary reason his son plays so many games and doesn't respect his father is because his dad spends all his time acting like a self righteous tool trying to impose his own beliefes on things and not spending any time with his kid to earn his respect.
It's called the First Amendment. Here, read this.gmer412 said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/5491-A-Crash-Course-in-ESRB
It explains, briefly, why videogame sales (among other things) cannot legally be restricted in the US, which is why Thompson's bills have inevitably failed, but also why this one may not. Of course, the irony is that by taking real steps to ensure this bill doesn't violate the First Amendment, it's bee made not just worthless and unenforceable but actually harmful to everyone involved in the process by essentially forcing Utah retailers to step away from the ESRB and any voluntary attempts to regulate sales to minors. It's both mind-boggling and disgraceful what this man will do to claim a "victory" over his perceived foes.
Having read and translated the bill+amendments into English:
It would be illegal if:
-The company advertised "We follow ESRB guidelines"
AND EITHER
-The company sold games in violation of the guidelines on two separate instances
OR
-The company has a training program in place to prevent inappropriate sales, and the SAME employee makes an inappropriate sale for the THIRD time.
Oh, and if the kid "Misrepresents" his/her age, they're off the hook. So a sign saying "Don't attempt to purchase 18+ games if you're underage" is a valid defense. Asking "Are you old enough to buy this" is a valid defense. Documenting that you told your cashier not to do it is a valid defense, provided that you fire them the second time they screw it up.
I recall going to a Gamestop and listening to the cashier explain to a buyer what the content was on a game she was buying for her son... I think it was Halo 3, which doesn't have the name of a violent or illegal act IN THE TITLE.
Seriously, you buy a game named Killzone 2, you got no right to say you didn't know what it was.
It would be illegal if:
-The company advertised "We follow ESRB guidelines"
AND EITHER
-The company sold games in violation of the guidelines on two separate instances
OR
-The company has a training program in place to prevent inappropriate sales, and the SAME employee makes an inappropriate sale for the THIRD time.
Oh, and if the kid "Misrepresents" his/her age, they're off the hook. So a sign saying "Don't attempt to purchase 18+ games if you're underage" is a valid defense. Asking "Are you old enough to buy this" is a valid defense. Documenting that you told your cashier not to do it is a valid defense, provided that you fire them the second time they screw it up.
I recall going to a Gamestop and listening to the cashier explain to a buyer what the content was on a game she was buying for her son... I think it was Halo 3, which doesn't have the name of a violent or illegal act IN THE TITLE.
Seriously, you buy a game named Killzone 2, you got no right to say you didn't know what it was.
What game retailers in Utah need to do if this becomes law is to hold a press conference and announce:
"In order to comply with the Thompson Act[sup]*[/sup] without risking prosecution, the retail industry must now sell any game to anyone. We are sorry for the inconvenience this will cause parents, who will now have to spend more time with their children understanding their hobbies and pass-times and who will now bear the burden of controlling their children's access to games, but we must abide by the laws of the land."
After all, the bill only punishes those who don't live up to an advertised age restriction promise. The most reasonable response for the retailers, then, is to stop promising to restrict sales by age.
-- Steve
[sup]*[/sup]not its real name, but used for humourous effect.
"In order to comply with the Thompson Act[sup]*[/sup] without risking prosecution, the retail industry must now sell any game to anyone. We are sorry for the inconvenience this will cause parents, who will now have to spend more time with their children understanding their hobbies and pass-times and who will now bear the burden of controlling their children's access to games, but we must abide by the laws of the land."
After all, the bill only punishes those who don't live up to an advertised age restriction promise. The most reasonable response for the retailers, then, is to stop promising to restrict sales by age.
-- Steve
[sup]*[/sup]not its real name, but used for humourous effect.
Sadly, that is what's almost certainly going to happen: Retailers will be forced to abdicate any responsibility over who gets these games because otherwise they'll be at risk of getting sued. It's a bit like those stories, true or not I have no idea, of people who attempt to help strangers in dire or life-threatening circumstances, then find themselves being dragged to court by those same people for some unintentional or imagined collateral damage their actions caused.
What really sickens me is not that Thompson would do something like this - his insanity and desperate attention-whoring are well-known by now - but that legislators in Utah, people who have been elected by their fellow citizens to run the state because they're presumably the best and the brightest, went along with it. It's either blatant, heavy-handed political pandering - we're thinking of the kids! - or they are one of the most jaw-dropping collection of bumbling lackwits ever assembled. How could they not see how this would work out?
My only concern is that Thompson and/or the Utah legislators are actually playing the long game here: They put into place a law they know will force retailers away from the ESRB, then wait a year or two and introduce a new bill legislating game sales - which is what Thompson really wants - because there's no rating system being used, there are no controls over game sales at all, it's goddamn Thunderdome out there and somebody has to do something! I don't know whether Thompson is capable of such deviousness, but politicians... yeah.
What really sickens me is not that Thompson would do something like this - his insanity and desperate attention-whoring are well-known by now - but that legislators in Utah, people who have been elected by their fellow citizens to run the state because they're presumably the best and the brightest, went along with it. It's either blatant, heavy-handed political pandering - we're thinking of the kids! - or they are one of the most jaw-dropping collection of bumbling lackwits ever assembled. How could they not see how this would work out?
My only concern is that Thompson and/or the Utah legislators are actually playing the long game here: They put into place a law they know will force retailers away from the ESRB, then wait a year or two and introduce a new bill legislating game sales - which is what Thompson really wants - because there's no rating system being used, there are no controls over game sales at all, it's goddamn Thunderdome out there and somebody has to do something! I don't know whether Thompson is capable of such deviousness, but politicians... yeah.
That's why I suggested doing it by press conference. Make it plain to the people of Utah that this law forces them to sell anything to anyone, that it's political chicanery and not reasoned policy, that it's plainly poorly thought-out... much as I hate encouraging the public to have even more distrust of their public officials when such has already reached toxic levels in the US, in this case the distrust really is deserved.Malygris said:
Make the legislation plainly ridiculous; make people laugh at those who voted it in. That'll make it harder for them to get away with Phase Two.
-- Steve
edited to add: And also make it clear that retailers would gladly return to the voluntary ESRB system, that actually works very well, after the Supreme Court slaps down this silly law.
The Utah legislature is being fuckin' retarded at this point in time. They are thinking over a bill that would force all Restaurants with bars to build a giant fuckin' wall so children can't see alcohol. Yeah seriously. I mean even as a Mormon this retarded shit is over the top. I mean Utah has some major problems in the whole United States Utah has the highest amount of Porn Subscriptions so why are we wasting out time with this nonsense when we have some real problems elsewhere like I don't know...the economy?
They failed to follow through on exactly where this is leading, should it not be found unconstitutional:
1. Store owners stop promoting ESRB.
2. Other states pass an identical bill.
3. Sales to minors go up.
5-10 years later -
4. Jack Thompson points out that there is no private regulation of videogame sales. Sure there's the ESRB, but no one uses it.
5. Government is forced to create its own governing body for videogame sales.
6. Selling M-rated games to those under 18 becomes a crime for everyone.
The people who pass this stuff aren't actually stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. Jack WANTS to undermine the ESRB.
EDIT: Didn't quite get through the massive number of posts before I posted, but yeah same thing as a couple of posts up.
1. Store owners stop promoting ESRB.
2. Other states pass an identical bill.
3. Sales to minors go up.
5-10 years later -
4. Jack Thompson points out that there is no private regulation of videogame sales. Sure there's the ESRB, but no one uses it.
5. Government is forced to create its own governing body for videogame sales.
6. Selling M-rated games to those under 18 becomes a crime for everyone.
The people who pass this stuff aren't actually stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. Jack WANTS to undermine the ESRB.
EDIT: Didn't quite get through the massive number of posts before I posted, but yeah same thing as a couple of posts up.
The problem is that it isn't enforcing a law, its enforcing store policy (besides all of the other loopholes). The ESRB isn't law, it was developed to get whining people like Jack Thompson off of our backs. Stores may choose whether or not to use the ESRB ratings, and most do simply because it shows them as being more responsible (as well as having game ratings printed on the box of mose games they recieve). This bill, therefore, punishes stores for backing said ratings, and then making a mistake. If somehow an 8 year old gets out of the store with GTA4, then that store will have a major lawsuit placed on it simply because it broke store policy. They don't advertise that they don't sell video games to minors, its just something that they try not to do, and therefore one cannot punish them for false advertising.gmer412 said:
It seems to me like this bill could mean some store owners, in order to avoid the risk, might drop the ESRB system or say that its okay to sell M rated games to kids. It misses the point. If, however, Mr. Thompson would like to make it illegal to sell M rated games to kids under 17, no loopholes or bullshit, but something as absolute and stable as that, that would be okay. However, if that were to happen, the ESRB would need serious revamping in order to make sure the ratings are accurate, and to be fair, R rated movies should get the same treatment (that's just theater policy too).
i wish people who are so against video game violence would go away if you don't like it don't buy it , it is the responsibility ofthe parents to keep it out of their kids hands as for those of us who play these types of games we are smart enough to know that we don't act that way in real life ,that's why men and women serve in the military to give the freedoms to play violent video games get a life mr. tompson
