US 2024 Presidential Election

Silvanus

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My point is that didn't really change anything if not even Nixon got arrested.

So in the instance that a president does something really bad and their VP doesn't pardon, then that comes into play. However, either of those is already unlikely on their own and both together is even more unlikely so why was it exaggerated on how awful the ruling was.
Because generally, people don't want their leaders to be completely above the law. That's why people were angry and frustrated. So even if justice is currently difficult to achieve, people don't like it when Judges decide to make it impossible. It's an absolutely terrible look and sends the message that the President is a king.
 

Asita

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I didn't say anything you said was wrong because that wasn't my point. My point was that the democrats gaslight on the same level (maybe a bit less or a bit more or about the same). You can't claim how bad another team is when you're team is in the same boat.
And once again you demonstrate that the point flew straight over your head.

Even if we were to take "both sides do it" as a given for the sake of argument, it would be irrelevant non-sequitur, as the point never was "republicans are worse because they do this". It was a point of data helping to illustrate that Trump had extensive multichannel support aimed at convincing the public of a narrative favorable to him, contrary to tstorm's implication that those channels were united against him and he overcame them.
 

Burnhardt

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Does it really matter?
Trump's announced RFK Jr for Health Secretary.

What are we betting on to return first? My money's on polio.
 

Trunkage

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The difference is that I see that as a problem while others just go "Whatcha gonna do? 🤷" and settle for the crumbs that fall off the table as Democrats gorge on the promised buffet.

It might be a war doomed to fail from the start since this country insists we need multiple parties but refuses to put their money where their mouth is and won't vote accordingly but it's a war I will never stop fighting.
It's great that you are fighting. Many people, like me, realise that the Dems won't change so we will fight in a different way

Most people didn't vote for Trump. They voted for change. Most people didn't vote for Harris either. Voting for something you like is not how American voting works. I can say the same about Australia too.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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It is wild to me how willing people are to believe nonsense that breaks against their political opponents. Hillary Clinton haphazardly calls Tulsi Gabbard a Russian asset, and reddit goes into full Boston marathon bombing mode to find the evidence for why that's true. An admitted sex predator takes a sweet plea deal offering testimony on Matt Gaetz, and after a long investigation turns up no other evidence Gaetz was involved, leaving them with only an unreliable witness as evidence, they drop the investigation, and that's enough to justify the title "known pedophile child sex trafficker".
An admitted sex predator and wealthy Republican politician, who is known to be Matt Gaetz's friend, who saved copies of his communications with Gaetz which implicate him in crimes, and who provided a bunch of information about his crimes in a letter to Roger Stone when he was trying to get a pardon from Trump.

Yup, definitely nothing to investigate there.

 
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The Rogue Wolf

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The US doesn't have a real competitive left wing party. What they have is a liberal center right wing party in the democrats, and a hard right to far right party in the Republicans.
It's just that, as I've said many times before, on the American political spectrum, anything left of Machiavelli is Marx.

An admitted sex predator and wealthy Republican politician, who is known to be Matt Gaetz's friend, who saved copies of his communications with Gaetz which implicate him in crimes, and who provided a bunch of information about his crimes in a letter to Roger Stone when he was trying to get a pardon from Trump.

Yup, definitely nothing to investigate there.

Republicans keep accusing Democrats of sex crimes to distract from how many Republicans are guilty of sex crimes.
 

Hades

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Trump's announced RFK Jr for Health Secretary.

What are we betting on to return first? My money's on polio.
In other words people are gonna die from easily avoided mistakes now that the nutter is in charge.
 

Kwak

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I guess the genocide will just genocide harder now, nice job.
 

tstorm823

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Says the man who blithely assumes doctors were lying when they declined to carry out a procedure out of concern they might breach abortion laws.
I don't see how that's in any way related. I was talking about people who just believe what they here. Who do you imagine I heard that conclusion from?
And Greenberg's testimony was not all they had. They also had other testimony, including from Gaetz's ex-girlfriend and numerous people who'd been at a sex-&-drugs party they said he attended with a 17 year old. Also have records of highly suspect financial transactions between Gaetz and Greenberg (for various women, with notes like "for tuition").
By other testimony, do you mean the testimony of the anonymous 17-year-old victim of the other accuser who testified pretty much only that she met Gaetz once?

The "suspect financial transactions" are Gaetz paying Greenberg over Venmo, and then Greenberg paying 3 adult women over Venmo the next morning. Which is weak evidence of actions that aren't criminal.

If this was about a Democrat, would you buy into this? If somebody else's rape victim pointed at Maxwell Frost and said "he's friends with my rapist, I met him at a party once", would you then argue that Frost is a known pedophile?
Hypothetical: Let's say nothing at all was done to try to stop them on Jan 6 from doing anything they wanted, and the Jan 6 folks got everything they were trying for - what do you think that would look like?
They'd stop counting electoral votes, postpone to January 7th, and all the same people would end up arrested after they left.
This wasn't a victory for truth and democracy over the forces of the evil media.
It's not about truth or evil. It is victory of democracy over oligarchy. You can prefer the de facto oligarchy if you like, you may find them more truthful or righteous, all I'm saying is that the citizens of the United State of America voted against the oligarchy.
An admitted sex predator and wealthy Republican politician, who is known to be Matt Gaetz's friend, who saved copies of his communications with Gaetz which implicate him in crimes, and who provided a bunch of information about his crimes in a letter to Roger Stone when he was trying to get a pardon from Trump.

Yup, definitely nothing to investigate there.
The only way you could construct a less trustworthy source would be to make them a Democrat in New Jersey.

They did investigate and dropped the case years ago.
 

tippy2k2

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I guess the genocide will just genocide harder now, nice job.
But I thought Kamala Harris was the pro-genocide candidate!
As opposed to the current policy of "Give Israel everything they want, even though they have danced all over the two Red Lines that Biden has given them" (and that's just the two we know of because he put that out publicly)

Because again, one side being Pro-Genocide doesn't make the other side magically not Pro-Genocide. But hey, you guys are now talking about the Genocide so just goes to show the silver lining is that Democrats will go back to believing that Genocide is a BAD thing all of a sudden and speak out against it rather than something we just hide and pretend that we know nothing about like the porn magazine under your bed that your Mom "doesn't know about"...

(And since I have to make sure to condemn both sides because otherwise people will be confused, it is also bad that Trump is willing to continue Biden's policy of just letting Israel do whatever they hell they want)
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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Asita

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It's not about truth or evil. It is victory of democracy over oligarchy. You can prefer the de facto oligarchy if you like, you may find them more truthful or righteous, all I'm saying is that the citizens of the United State of America voted against the oligarchy.
Ok, first of all that is not what either of us were arguing. Your position was explicitly that it was everyone - Traditional Media, Social Media, Government, etc - vs. Trump and used that to claim that his election was a "victory for democracy", and cast it as the people rejecting the narrative about Trump. And my point was that such a characterization is completely divorced from reality, as he had very strong support in each of those channels and more, all of which were championing Trump, at times even with anywhere from near-to-explicitly religious veneration.

To pretend that latter element didn't exist is simply disingenous and self-aggradizing, as is your new characterization of it as "a victory of democracy over oligarchy", which equivocates between "incumbancy" and "oligarchy" while ignoring that Trump is himself a returning president.
 

tstorm823

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There's other sources.

That's beyond hearsay. When an unnamed source tells the news to tell you that a Congressman was directly accused of statutory rape, but the Justice Department dropped the case and the House Oversight committee was deliberating about just not releasing their findings... how does that pass your smell test?
Your position was explicitly that it was everyone.
No it wasn't. There are lots of people, prominent ones, corporations, and politicians backing Trump. Nobody said that everyone was against him. Having support doesn't diminish the political adversity aimed at him. It has been many decades, possibly more than a century, since a president won in the face of so concentrated a level of opposition. Certainly anyone who wins an election has support, but I'm highlighting those against, and the use of effectively every available tactic to prevent his victory.
 

Asita

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No it wasn't. There are lots of people, prominent ones, corporations, and politicians backing Trump. Nobody said that everyone was against him. Having support doesn't diminish the political adversity aimed at him. It has been many decades, possibly more than a century, since a president won in the face of so concentrated a level of opposition. Certainly anyone who wins an election has support, but I'm highlighting those against, and the use of effectively every available tactic to prevent his victory.
While pointedly ignoring and underplaying that support so as to - very self-servingly - claim that his victory constitutes "a victory for democracy" over the "oligarchy" "mainstream media, social media, and all 3 branches of government", implicitly also meaning that his loss would be a loss for democracy.
 

Phoenixmgs

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What the actual fucka are you talking about? Do you live on this planet at all?
Democrats gaslight all the time.

Because generally, people don't want their leaders to be completely above the law. That's why people were angry and frustrated. So even if justice is currently difficult to achieve, people don't like it when Judges decide to make it impossible. It's an absolutely terrible look and sends the message that the President is a king.
It's not impossible... that wasn't the ruling.

And once again you demonstrate that the point flew straight over your head.

Even if we were to take "both sides do it" as a given for the sake of argument, it would be irrelevant non-sequitur, as the point never was "republicans are worse because they do this". It was a point of data helping to illustrate that Trump had extensive multichannel support aimed at convincing the public of a narrative favorable to him, contrary to tstorm's implication that those channels were united against him and he overcame them.
The mainstream media was united against Trump. Why do you thing people think this election is the worst thing to ever happen?

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Trump's announced RFK Jr for Health Secretary.

What are we betting on to return first? My money's on polio.
In other words people are gonna die from easily avoided mistakes now that the nutter is in charge.
The guy with the brain worm is gonna be the one to protect us from the bird flu?

Maybe I should buy my coffin now, avoid the inevitable shortages.
What is wrong with you guys? None of that is going to happen. Do you even argue in good faith?