US 2024 Presidential Election

Dirty Hipsters

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Man-made climate change, so far as I can tell, is nothing short of divine providence. Without it, we would likely be facing the inevitable return of glaciers so large that the oceans recede. Alternatively, maybe the ice age was ending anyways, and we were heading towards an era of (relative to what we know) extreme heat. The idea that we can impact the global climate through human actions is an incredible blessing in the long term, and responsible climate policies coordinated across the globe will be necessary to pursue it. That being said, we need way more energy than we produce now to make any of that happen, and knee-capping human progress now in the name of preventing climate change is only going to hinder our ability to steward the climate in the future as we struggle to support ourselves instead of continuing to advance.
Again, utter horseshit.

If Republicans cared about creating more energy they wouldn't be trying to get rid of windmills and solar farms to be replaced with more coal and oil. Their policies have nothing to do with trying to produce more energy more efficiently and everything to do with lining the pockets of oil and coal companies, extracting as much profit as possible from the planet, and propping up the dying industries that are bribing them.

Knee-capping human progress is exactly what Republicans are doing when they pull shit like this:

 
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The Rogue Wolf

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and knee-capping human progress now in the name of preventing climate change is only going to hinder our ability to steward the climate in the future as we struggle to support ourselves instead of continuing to advance.
I need you to understand, fully, how utterly moronic you sound when you say this.

The power sources you want us to stay dependent on- oil, coal, natural gas- are finite. Once we run out, it's a several-hundred-million year wait before we can get more. Weaning ourselves off of them now, while we have the ability, isn't "kneecapping human progress"; it's ensuring that progress can continue. Because if we don't have alternatives by the time the easy stuff runs out, that's it for human civilization- we will, at best, regress to stone-age agrarian societies that can't support the eight billion humans alive today (leading to massive numbers of deaths), and at worse wipe ourselves out warring for what little remains. Combatting climate change by reducing greenhouse gas emissions is a fantastic side benefit.

But then I remember who I'm talking to, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you believed "God will put more oil in the ground once we get rid of all the gays".
 

tstorm823

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Knee-capping human progress is exactly what Republicans are doing when they pull shit like this:

We'll have to wait and see on that. I am certainly for permitting wind projects, but I'm also aware that policies implemented by Democrats have a tendency to be some combination of underhanded, corrupt, or ineffective, so there's very few things they could "temporarily halt" for review and not feel justified. The Democratic Party would absolutely do something like permit the rights to their buddies, subsidize the construction, and then pocket the money without accomplishing anything.

Edit: I will concede that Trump is dumb enough to cancel windmills cause he likes golf or something.
The power sources you want us to stay dependent on- oil, coal, natural gas- are finite. Once we run out, it's a several-hundred-million year wait before we can get more. Weaning ourselves off of them now, while we have the ability, isn't "kneecapping human progress"; it's ensuring that progress can continue.
It's not that I want us to stay dependent on them, it's that we are currently dependent on them, and the pace of human progress is dependent on them. The idea that we can just stop using these things without being hindered is delusional. The replacements are developing, and in many ways being implemented now. If we decide to reduce oil production, the consequence is every single aspect of human life at the moment becoming more difficult and more expensive. Literally everything gets more difficult and expensive. And when everything is more difficult, you have fewer resources available to develop and deploy the replacements. Trying forcibly to wean off now will likely lead to more fossil fuels being burnt long term.

The world of renewable energy only exists because of the world of fossil fuels that precedes it. Oil is giving us the opportunity to build better things.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Uh....yes it is. Far right does not refer to a policy's popularity. If a far right demagogue says he'll put all migrant in camps to keep the nation's blood pure then that would be a far right policy goal even if this was met with roaring approval by the public. Just as how a politician running primarily on an environmental platform would inherently be a ''Green'' politician. How unpopular or popular those polices would be doesn't change any of that.


And that means supporting parties that don't want any progressive policy and roll back all that's been achieved up til now? If Rogan is grumpy about Obamacare not being full fledged European style healthcare then....why exactly is the fanatically anti health care party the preferred alternative?


You keep saying that but its never been convincing. Compare Trump with any moderate right winger and he'll always remain much farther to the right, much more anti democracy and more openly racist. Compare him to the European far right and he still comes off further than the right. Trump isn't a milktoast centrist or a typical economically conservative, god fearing Republican. He simply isn't. Instead he's a demagogue who very knowingly exacerbates social and racial tension and who openly seeks to tear down any check on his personal power.
What is far right that the majority of the country wants Trump (or any president) to do?

What progressive policy is Trump rolling back? And why don't you look at the books that Trump's NIH appointment wrote? Why would I think Harris would do anything for healthcare? Biden didn't even do anything and that was during a freaking pandemic.

You never actually explain any of your positions, you call people names. How is Trump actually far right?

The recent decay that is completely made up by Republicans.
Seriously, I live in California, you've never even set foot in the state.

The stats I listed are from last year. If there's as much "decay" as you claim then was California in first place for all these metrics 30 years ago?

Republicans are the ones trying to gut most of these things. Education and public healthcare? Constantly on the chopping block with Republican politicians. Public land? Republicans really want to privatize it so they can pump more oil and log more forests.

Republicans have a vested interest in the "California is failing" narrative because it's the antithesis of all of their policies. The problem is that California is mostly thriving.
California has the 2nd highest cost of living (only Hawaii is higher) and it's about to get higher after all the insurance rates go up. So many people are leaving California that U-Haul actually ran of trucks to rent. If California is so great, why are so many people leaving, and why does it have such a high cost of living?


This already aged horribly. The Columbian president already caved and is sending a presidential plane to pick up their citizens.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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California has the 2nd highest cost of living (only Hawaii is higher) and it's about to get higher after all the insurance rates go up. So many people are leaving California that U-Haul actually ran of trucks to rent. If California is so great, why are so many people leaving, and why does it have such a high cost of living?
It has a high cost of living BECAUSE it's great. You know where the cost of living is low? Where people don't want to live.

The funny thing is, a pretty large number of people who leave California end up wanting to come back. 3/4 of the people I know who left California when they went to college ended up coming back afterward. Most of the people I know who got jobs out of state ended up trying to find new jobs in California to come back.

All those people who moved to Texas during the pandemic to escape the high cost of living in California? A lot of them regret it, and a lot of them found out that their taxes in Texas ended up actually being higher than California. Funny that. California is actually the second most popular state for people to move to.


 

Phoenixmgs

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It has a high cost of living BECAUSE it's great. You know where the cost of living is low? Where people don't want to live.

The funny thing is, a pretty large number of people who leave California end up wanting to come back. 3/4 of the people I know who left California when they went to college ended up coming back afterward. Most of the people I know who got jobs out of state ended up trying to find new jobs in California to come back.

All those people who moved to Texas during the pandemic to escape the high cost of living in California? A lot of them regret it, and a lot of them found out that their taxes in Texas ended up actually being higher than California. Funny that. California is actually the second most popular state for people to move to.


The high cost of living is because policies in California don't let people build houses.

California actually lost population in the last census year. So more people left California than new people moving in + babies being born too.

In 2024, California saw the most movers leaving and the least new arrivals.

The #1 issue people had with moving out of California was the weather, which would be obvious as many most states obviously can't compete with that. Also, after the whole fire situation in California and I guess "weather" isn't as much of a regret. If the #1 regret is something the state can't do anything about, that's not much of an issue then. Your source didn't say taxes ended up actually being higher than California.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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The high cost of living is because policies in California don't let people build houses.
I don't disagree with that, we do need to build significantly more housing. Even so, the cost of living in California is always going to overall be higher than the cost of living in other states specifically because the demand to live here is very high. There's also places in California where the cost of living is comparable to other parts of the US, but those are also the places that are less desirable to live in. Bakersfield for example is a pretty affordable part of California, but if you're going to live in Bakersfield you might as well live in Texas or Indiana.

California actually lost population in the last census year. So more people left California than new people moving in + babies being born too.

In 2024, California saw the most movers leaving and the least new arrivals.
Again, I don't disagree that California is overall losing people, but like I said, a significant number of the people who left California during covid have ended up regretting it.

And, while California overall lost people in 2024, the population actually increased in 2023 by 67,000 people, so it's not like it's just a straight decline of people only leaving and no one moving in.


Additionally, California is the state immigrants are most likely to move to.


The #1 issue people had with moving out of California was the weather, which would be obvious as many most states obviously can't compete with that. Also, after the whole fire situation in California and I guess "weather" isn't as much of a regret. If the #1 regret is something the state can't do anything about, that's not much of an issue then. Your source didn't say taxes ended up actually being higher than California.
From my source:

Higher Property Taxes

Buying a house is only one of the issues when it comes to owning property in Texas. The other is the property taxes, which can be a significant increase to some new residents who have just settled down. According to WalletHub’s property tax report for 2024, Texas has the seventh-highest property taxes in the country.



Homeowners may be taken somewhat aback to find out that the savings expected from not having a state income tax can be mostly if not entirely consumed by one’s property tax bill. This will be particularly true of those moving to Texas from states where this average is quite low.
Additionally here's another source that talks about the overall average tax burden, not just property taxes:


Though Texas has no state-level personal income tax, it does levy relatively high consumption and property taxes on residents to make up the difference. Ultimately, it has a higher effective state and local tax rate for a median U.S. household at 12.73% than California's 8.97%, according to a new report from WalletHub.
 

Satinavian

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I wonder if Trump even knows what he's talking about when saying "legal obligations", or if he just thinks "they have to do what I say because I'm Emperor of the United States".
Theoretically a country should take back its own citizens.

However that would require the identify every single one and confirm their citizen status. That Columbia does not want to take several flight of randomly rounded up people with no papers is logical.