US 2024 Presidential Election

[Trunkage]

She's not, though. She merely seems sane in the same way that a stopped clock is right two times a day.

You also get to be seen as sane if you stayed a clock while the rest of them morphed into a chainsaw and still pretend to be a clock

This is what populism. Trump has said some stuff I can agree with. Its the solutions that are the problem.

For example, if Trump actually drained the swamp, I would be thanking him. But he just took charge of the swamp for the dollar bills. So he gets nothing from me. Trump reduced the number of children lacking nutrition. Thats great. I wished he or Biden kept it. It doesny make Trump a good person. He just sometime, usually unintentonal, helps some people. Green will be the same

 

[tstorm823]

Im fine with this if your targetting all pride things, not just homosexual one

All religous days and celebrations. All veterans days. All sports days. Anything patriotic gone. All celebrations of the effort of police, doctors or fire fighters. Removing all hetero context from books, films, song and shows. Etc

Most of those aren't about pride. Most things about homosexuality are also not about pride.

 

[Silvanus]

If you're asking me to use my own words, I would disregard the idea of discrete sexualities altogether.

I'm asking where you got the idea from. Personal experience? Research? Anecdote? Who gave you the idea that sexual orientation can be brute-forced through exposure?

It's just adding an interest. All of the weird sex stuff people like on the internet operate this way. People are exposed to something and start to like it, it's not that complex.

And yet for most people, the basic experience of sexual attraction occurred around puberty, by having a crush. Crushes do not tend to require the person to force them, and pre-pubescent teens are not forcing themselves. They arise quite unbidden.

In fact, gay teens and kids often tend to try very hard to force themselves to like the opposite sex.

The abject failures you refer to all lie in attempting the opposite, to get people to hate what they once enjoyed.

So you believe sexual attractions can be attained through brute force exposure, but then not changed afterwards?

Do you dispute really dispute it? Do you not look at all the ways people draw tribal boundaries between "us" and "them" and recognize the pride they feel?

Of course i recognise the pride there. But to believe that toxic form is the only version of pride possible, is to deny how people have been describing their feelings for centuries.

Like saying, "look at all the ways people get entertainment from cruelty! How can you deny that entertainment is terrible?"

 

[Xprimentyl]

No, not usually. Most people stick with their first instinct. Most people who don't like olives just stick with not liking olives. That doesn't mean that they can't like olives.

This is so stupid. By this logic, someone who doesn't like getting punched in the face just needs to be punched in the face enough times to change their "first instinct." If you'd stoop so low as to casually equate sexuality to a preference for food, then you should probably not engage people in discussions of sexuality. Your opinions are best kept to yourself, and not shared with ANYONE, least of all people of marginalized groups directly affected by sexual prejudice.

 

[tstorm823]

So you believe sexual attractions can be attained through brute force exposure, but then not changed afterwards?

Tastes and habits can be attained through human agency. Establishing a new taste or a habit is tremendously easier than getting rid of one you already have.

Of course i recognise the pride there. But to believe that toxic form is the only version of pride possible, is to deny how people have been describing their feelings for centuries.

"Their version of pride is toxic, but mine is pure and good." It's pride pride! Pride-ception!

This is so stupid. By this logic, someone who doesn't like getting punched in the face just needs to be punched in the face enough times to change their "first instinct."

My metaphor was comparing a pleasure to a pleasure. You're now comparing seeing or touching someone of a certain sex to being punched in the face. That seems like an unhealthy outlook to me.

If you'd stoop so low as to casually equate sexuality to a preference for food, then you should probably not engage people in discussions of sexuality. Your opinions are best kept to yourself, and not shared with ANYONE, least of all people of marginalized groups directly affected by sexual prejudice.

The sexual prejudice is your own. You have exactly the same paradigm as those who are actually bigoted.

 

[Xprimentyl]

The sexual prejudice is your own. You have exactly the same paradigm as those who are actually bigoted.

Oh, please, do say more. Your Cirque du Soleil of mental gymnastics is a trainwreck that's hard to look away from.

 

[tstorm823]

Oh, please, do say more. Your Cirque du Soleil of mental gymnastics is a trainwreck that's hard to look away from.

What more is there to say? You see people treating same-sex attraction as an entire separate class of person, and you say "yeah, give me more of that!"

 

[Xprimentyl]

What more is there to say? You see people treating same-sex attraction as an entire separate class of person, and you say "yeah, give me more of that!"

There's the rub; I DON'T see same sex attraction as an "entire[ly] separate class of person." I see them as the same as anyone else, but I also live in the society that marginalizes them to the point they feel the need to assert their PRIDE in who they are and that they deserve equal treatment/recognition as anyone else. Pride parades are a celebration of the LGBTQ+ community that refuses to be relegated to the shadows where people like you would prefer they skulk around in, and if you don't like it, if their pride is so offensive, look away! Doesn't change the fact that they are here. They are among us, and they have nothing to be ashamed of.

Now, go kiss enough dudes until you love it. According to you, it's:

tremendously easier than

deferring to your heterosexual inclinations would suggest. Or would you rather not? Is almost like it's... against your nature? Dare I say... not a choice you could so easily make? One you'd rather not make? One you DIDN'T make?

 

[Trunkage]

Most of those aren't about pride. Most things about homosexuality are also not about pride.

Yeah, they are pride. All homosexual pride is doing is copying what other demographics do as pride. There just isn't people asking to take them down

What more is there to say? You see people treating same-sex attraction as an entire separate class of person, and you say "yeah, give me more of that!"

Give me more? I would say: Make sure people like you don't get any control of the situation, because you will eventually ban stuff. Pride isn't about separation. It's about assimilation

You have spent 6 pages now and all that you've proven is that pride should exist specifically to counter ideas like yours

 

[Silvanus]

Tastes and habits can be attained through human agency. Establishing a new taste or a habit is tremendously easier than getting rid of one you already have.

K, so that's how you believe it works. So for the third time asking, where are you getting this idea from? Its entirely at odds with my experience, and the experience of anyone i've ever discussed sexuality with. I've seen no research to that effect.

Who have you spoken to that believes they attained their sexuality through repeatedly exposing themselves to something they initially had no attraction to?

"Their version of pride is toxic, but mine is pure and good." It's pride pride! Pride-ception!

Well, in this case, "my" pride-- which is also pride as its understood by most people, and how it's defined-- lacks the very elements that you've identified as making pride toxic.

 

[tstorm823]

Who have you spoken to that believes they attained their sexuality through repeatedly exposing themselves to something they initially had no attraction to?

Who cannot look at their life and identify formative experiences? The very idea of a formative experience is that it forms you into something you might not have been without that experience.

All homosexual pride is doing is copying what other demographics do as pride.

Yes, exactly. The thing you aren't understanding is that not all of these things are about pride. Parades of pride belong to groups like military dictatorships and white supremacists. Copying the ideas of the KKK is not uplifting a demographic.

They are among us, and they have nothing to be ashamed of.

No, they have 1000 things to be ashamed of. Everyone has that. We are all fallen people. We are all low. And trying to deny that leads to feeling the shame of all those things that are wrong. You want people to be accepted, but if someone refuses to recognize their issues, they are the ones who are not accepting themselves. And the rest of us playing along is implicitly declaring that we will never accept their reality, we aren't even willing to speak of it, we create a fake idea to say everything is alright, and that is refusing to love the real people.

 

[Xprimentyl]

No, they have 1000 things to be ashamed of. Everyone has that. We are all fallen people. We are all low. And trying to deny that leads to feeling the shame of all those things that are wrong. You want people to be accepted, but if someone refuses to recognize their issues, they are the ones who are not accepting themselves. And the rest of us playing along is implicitly declaring that we will never accept their reality, we aren't even willing to speak of it, we create a fake idea to say everything is alright, and that is refusing to love the real people.

Oh, my God, that is a complete strawman and nonsensical bullshit. Do you read your own posts before posting them? You're telling me this makes sense to you?

 

[Silvanus]

Who cannot look at their life and identify formative experiences? The very idea of a formative experience is that it forms you into something you might not have been without that experience.

This is obviously a non-answer. Formative experiences exist; this does not mean that all characteristics of a person can be altered through repeated exposure to something.

I take from this that you've merely rationalised the position, and have nothing here in the real world to back it up.

 

[Hades]

So it turns out Witkoff isn't just a brainless crony who got the job for being Trump's golf buddy. Instead he's a Russian asset, and actively advising the Russian barbarians on how to best manipulate Trump.

Can you guys please procecute him for treason when you get a real government again? That guy is complete scum. Practically no different then vermin.
Trump envoy Witkoff reportedly advised Kremlin official on Ukraine peace deal | Trump administration | The Guardian

 

[Agema]

So it turns out Witkoff isn't just a brainless crony who got the job for being Trump's golf buddy. Instead he's a Russian asset, and actively advising the Russian barbarians on how to best manipulate Trump.

Whilst negatively framed in the article, I don't necessarily think it's as bad as it seems.

Firstly, I think this is how negotiations have always been. Functionaries smooth the way before the ultimate power makes the final decision and signs on the dotted line. This will have always involved in some cases helping the "opposition" know the right things to say to their own government. Secondly, many of these negotiations will not have been by unified teams, there will always have been factions trying to see their version of the end deal takes priority over others nominally on their same 'side'.

Secondly, we need to consider what Witkoff's objective actually is - and that is serving his boss, Donald Trump. It's not Ukraine's best interest, or even the USA's national interest. Trump doesn't give a damn about Ukraine. He's "Master of the Deal", so he thinks he should have a deal on Ukraine and that's all he wants*. It doesn't matter what the deal is. In this context, he and his cronies see Ukraine as the weaker party that's easier to pressure into concessions. So if the USA can collaborate with the Russians to wring as much out of Ukraine as possible, as long as a treaty gets signed, their job is done.

[*] Of course, Trump also wants a Nobel Peace Prize, undoubtedly for no other reason than Obama has one and he hates the idea that a black guy who made fun of him has something so special that he as a billionaire white man doesn't. Trump will have to make do with FIFA's hastily-conceived peace award.

 

[Trunkage]

Yes, exactly. The thing you aren't understanding is that not all of these things are about pride. Parades of pride belong to groups like military dictatorships and white supremacists. Copying the ideas of the KKK is not uplifting a demographic.

So are you against the Veterans' Day marches? Christian marches, Anti-abortion marches, Men's marches, Anti-poverty marches (okay, maybe not centred around an identity like all the others, it's centred around getting people out of an identity), Anti-Gun Control marches, Pro-Israel marches, Pro-family marches...

Man, there are a LOT of people copying the ideas of the KKK, apparently

 

[Xprimentyl]

So are you against the Veterans' Day marches? Christian marches, Anti-abortion marches, Men's marches, Anti-poverty marches (okay, maybe not centred around an identity like all the others, it's centred around getting people out of an identity), Anti-Gun Control marches, Pro-Israel marches, Pro-family marches...

Man, there are a LOT of people copying the ideas of the KKK, apparently

When you conflate disparate uses of a word using a broad brush hyperopically from orbit, anything can make the sense you need it to make to allow your bullshit argument to carry the smallest iota of credibility in a case of bad-faith discussion. E.g.: I hate racism, therefore, I'm effectively the same as malicious hate groups who also "hate," see? The logic tracks just like the dog shit I stepped in before walking across my mom's living room carpet.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[The Rogue Wolf]

If you thought you'd be getting your Trump phone on time, well... money, fool, latter soon parted from former, etc.

The Trump Mobile phone is nowhere to be found after months of delay

Trump Mobile has posted conflicting photos of the phone and scrubbed mention of its “Made in the USA” promise.

www.nbcnews.com

Apparently the delay is being blamed on the government shutdown. Don't ask me how a government shutdown could cause a three-month delay in the delivery of a commercially-produced item.

 

[Gergar12]

Let's be real, if I were making this amount of money(I don't), and I got this amount of taxes taken away from me, and the conservatives weren't nutjobs ,I would want to vote Republican too. 839K in taxes.