USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[Erana]

With private health care, you already can't choose your doctors because they have to be on the very small roster of specialists on one's insurance, and you already have to wait for medical treatment.
In fact, the very notion that people are afraid that the wait time for vital surgeries will be longer is terrifying because it implies that people who aren't able to afford it just die, and people arguing this are happy about that.
I mean, to see the a doctor when they first suspected I had a brain tumor, it was a three month wait.

Our system is already broken, and what people don't realize is that we are already partly socialized.We pay for the health of the poor. If they're sick enough, that is. Allowing them to take some preventative measures, like getting antibiotics at an office rather than getting brain fever and winding up on Medicaid would behoove the coffers of the government.
Still, my mother works with a lot of older people as she works in dialysis, and there's this bullshit notion that Medicaid is not socialized medicine because "They payed for it." By way of paying taxes. Even though the money spent on them in those clinics has probably totaled more than they ever made in their time as a working citizen.
And I'm not kidding. Dialysis and all the services and medicines entailed are incredibly expensive.

A huge problem with our healthcare that few address are the lobbyists. The people that make it possible for the drug and medical companies to care up the ass for their products. I can understand services and such being more expensive at hospitals- it is really hard for many medical facilities to break even these days, and doctors don't really get payed like they used to.
Both private health care and public health care could make sure that doctors are reasonably compensated for their work, but prescriptions?
Paying $240 a month for a product that would cost $15 if it were allowed to go generic, and even less than that to produce as a name brand? I mean, seriously. And the sick and dying people on medicaid use a lot of drugs. And the government has to pay the exorbitant fee they charge in order to keep these people alive.

But of course, capitalism! Because socialized healthcare is EEEEVBIL!
But I'll shoot you if you try to take away my medicare or medicaid.

 

[Jake the Snake]

Because the right wing in this country loves to oppose any kind of reform the left wants. They employ fear tactics (something that is so petty and infuriating in its effectiveness it frankly makes me want to scream) and for some reason, every idiot in the country believes them. They keep prattling: We have the best health care system in the world!

No. We don't. Not by a long shot.

Everyone deserves coverage. Except no one is really willing to pay for it. I swear to god, I have no idea why people are so deathly afraid of raising taxes in this country. IT'S HOW LITERALLY EVERYTHING GETS PAID FOR. And the rich have absolutely no leg to stand on. Shut up, if you're worth more than $10 million dollars, you're never going to poor, your money makes more money than you could ever possibly spend it, and it's your duty as a citizen to help your countrymen. You know, it's a very basic concept we're taught to do at a very young age: Share. I will never understand the irrational behavior that is greed.

 

[Chevy235]

Firemen would have to ask people to provide insurance documents whilst they're house is burning down.

In the US, they do... Look up 'emergency services coverage' and be amazed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html

so there proff you have to pay firefighters or they will stand and watch your house burn down.

There is way more to that story than that. He was in a rural area and refused to pay something like 50 dollars a year to be covered by the local municipality's fire station. It was, in essence, a voluntary tax.

He chose not to. His fault, no one elses.

"Because the right wing in this country loves to oppose any kind of reform the left wants. They employ fear tactics (something that is so petty and infuriating in its effectiveness it frankly makes me want to scream) and for some reason, every idiot in the country believes them."

I could easily say the same about the left, and their lies and propaganda concerning the Ryan plan is incontrovertible proof, as well as in 2006, when the right attempted to reform Social Security, which is now snowballing into an even greater trainwreck. Or how about when the right tried to investigate Fannie Mae, which Barney Frank (D-Countrywide Insurance) led the charge against. Of course, we all know that Enron-style accounting at Fannie Mae, a GSE, was at the root of the housing collapse (they securitized subprime mortgages, and lo and behold, didn't have nearly as much money to back them up as they said they did).

 

[Mid-Boss]

(snip

We are a nation of IDIOTS. Gullible, extremely easily frightened, over patriotic morons. It's not that health care and insurance companies are evil. They're evil everywhere. It's that here, in the nation where so many people lack even fundamental knowledge of well, anything, these companies can get away with it.

In America, if you want a movement killed, there are three words to say. "Hitler" "Socialism" and "Muslims". You don't even have to use them in any logical context. Just SAY them and, kaboom, people are scared. When people are scared they stop thinking and are far more susceptible to whatever you want them to believe.

I hate this country.

 

[Liudeius]

Well obviously Obama-care-socialism-HITLER-health system didn't pass.
He wanted to have a panel of doctors vote on whether or not to kill everyone over the age of 50, duh.

Yeah, unfortunately so long as Fox News is still around, the US will never do anything other than progress further to a third world status.
(Fox News is an absurdly biased news organization that lies to the extreme, uses false video footage, and promotes radicalism.)

 

[Daystar Clarion]

My appendix tried to kill me a few years back (that treacherous bastard), and since I'm lucky enough to live in a country that doesn't penalise me for getting ill (the U.K.), I was given the treatment I needed and the aftercare to ensure that I didn't get killed off by a raging infection (my case was a particularly nasty one).

That was my first, and hopefully, last visit to the hospital (excluding my birth, of course).

Now, I don't care if I get taxed for healthcare and never end up in hospital again, because I know how scary it can be, and the last thing you want to worry about, is how you're going to pay for any of it.

I will gladly pay my taxes, knowing that thousands of people, everyday, are getting the treatment they need, regardless of their personal circumstances.

I don't buy into this whole, 'socialised medicine is evil' bollocks.

America can't afford it because of their debt. Protip, don't spend more on your military, than all of the European countries combined, then maybe you'd have some cash left over to stop your own citizens dieing from easily treatable illnesses.

 

[Chevy235]

Well obviously Obama-care-socialism-HITLER-health system didn't pass.
He wanted to have a panel of doctors vote on whether or not to kill everyone over the age of 50, duh.

Yeah, unfortunately so long as MSNBC is still around, the US will never do anything other than progress further to a third world status.
(MSNBC is an absurdly biased news organization that lies to the extreme, uses false video footage, and promotes radicalism.)

FTFY

 

[Xhuliano Pula]

The main reason is because most Americans (saying this as a American myself) care more about paying less in taxes then healthcare. Most Americans fear/hate the government and really believe in an almost ALMOST anarchist nation. Thats what the our founding documents call for. The governments of the states are the ones who are supposed to get involved in this stuff. However since they spend so much money on medicare/walfare/green stuff they cann't afford it. Americans refuse to pay more taxes and now you see the cycle...
Personally I am a conservative and don't believe it's the jobs of the Gov. to provide such services. i do believe that has to be some reforms to pervent the Med. insurence companies from doing what you talk about in your story.
In the end, most American who don't have med. insurance are either 1.Illegals or 2.To lazy/greedy to buy it. Americans care more about helping the Chinese economy by buying Ipods the about their own arms and legs *sigh* =/

 

[Xero Scythe]

I agree. I think it's ridiculous that USA doesn't have socialized health care, nearly all other developed country has it. It has something to do with USA's deep-rooted fear of socialism and "Dem evil reds!" I think.

Not really. Our problem is with democracy itself: lobbyists. Presidents as far back as Roosevelt have been trying to get us national health care. The need fir it has been recognized since the Great Depression, but Insurance companies don't want it. Why? They're a company, and so hold the ability to refuse the old, the sick, the dying, the crippled, and anyone else who actually needs health care, instead of the healthy people who they basically take money from and don't expect to give any back. Obama wants a national health care system, Whig means Insurance Companies won't be able to disqualify applicants merely because they might lose money on a guy. I just really want a few more Democrats in office, if only to reduce the amount of lobbyists in Congress.

 

[dehboy]

Because the right wing in this country loves to oppose any kind of reform the left wants. They employ fear tactics (something that is so petty and infuriating in its effectiveness it frankly makes me want to scream) and for some reason, every idiot in the country believes them. They keep prattling: We have the best health care system in the world!

No. We don't. Not by a long shot.

Everyone deserves coverage. Except no one is really willing to pay for it. I swear to god, I have no idea why people are so deathly afraid of raising taxes in this country. IT'S HOW LITERALLY EVERYTHING GETS PAID FOR. And the rich have absolutely no leg to stand on. Shut up, if you're worth more than $10 million dollars, you're never going to poor, your money makes more money than you could ever possibly spend it, and it's your duty as a citizen to help your countrymen. You know, it's a very basic concept we're taught to do at a very young age: Share. I will never understand the irrational behavior that is greed.

Haha, your reasoning is exactly what is wrong with America. How old are you? Just because some people take risks with their money and their risks pay off don't mean YOU should be rewarded with their money. They worked hard to earn their money, it is THEIR right to do with it as they please. Raising taxes is terrible. The more "free" programs are there, the less incentive there is to work hard and get ahead in life. If we lived in a socialist, "free" country, then we'd have no iPhones. Oh, you think we would? Well, if Steve Jobs didn't get any money from inventing the latest and greatest in technology, what incentive is there to do it? To help out his fellow countrymen? Please. Stop being so ignorant.

 

[murphy7801]

Well durr, you have to pick exactly what you want to be insured for, it's cheaper for you.

Unless something goes wrong, so you either pay TONS of money for private insurance or pay a small amount and then you get angry when you do sustain an injury..

So having aids is cheap ?

Also under the new UK system in my county (think state or province in population but not land mass) we will make people loose weight or give up smoking before we will do surgery if it has an effect on there chance of recovery (though if any life treating surgery is need will always been done).

 

[Baradiel]

I've read through pretty much this entire thread. There are plenty of different points, and they've been expressed in ways much better than I can (I'm also very tired.)

Anyway, here's my view: The idea of charging for medical care is utterly alien to me. I live in the UK, so I've always had the NHS. I am in perfect health (except for general lack of fitness, but thats just down to lack of exercise), despite suffering Rotavirus as a child, fracturing my skull twice in the space of four years, having about three ingrown, septic toenails removed (Lovely.) and various other ailments.

Health care is a public service, like the police and fire brigade. If you can't imagine socialised health care, try and imagine a police force that would only save you from a mugger if you gave them a cheque? Or a firefighter who refused to put your burning house out because it would waste water? They sound ridiculous. Thats how privatised health care seems to me.

Don't get me wrong, though. We have private health care too. The key difference is that its optional. If you pay, you have access to the companies facilities much faster than if you waited on the state. If you don't pay, you may have to wait a few days, to weeks, to months, depending on the seriousness of the ailment. (If its an emergency, you get treated immedietly, regardless of your financial situation.)

I'm what many people here would call a liberal, and they'd call me it as an insult. Now, that I put down to differing cultures, or political views, or just plain brainwashing. But to me, when a service that decides whether someone lives or dies is dedicated to making a profit, that is just wrong to me. No, not everything should be socialised. It can suppress innovation and stifle creativity (or so I've been told), but health care should be!

There's not a hope in hell that America could switch to socialised medicine overnight. The corruption of the corporation, with its lobbying and loopholes, wouldn't let it. There's plenty wrong with America (theres plenty wrong with the rest of the world too!), and I honestly can't see it improving without something drastic happening (ala, a revolution of sorts), but I can hope.

 

[menhir]

My appendix tried to kill me a few years back (that treacherous bastard), and since I'm lucky enough to live in a country that doesn't penalise me for getting ill (the U.K.), I was given the treatment I needed and the aftercare to ensure that I didn't get killed off by a raging infection (my case was a particularly nasty one).

That was my first, and hopefully, last visit to the hospital (excluding my birth, of course).

Now, I don't care if I get taxed for healthcare and never end up in hospital again, because I know how scary it can be, and the last thing you want to worry about, is how you're going to pay for any of it.

I will gladly pay my taxes, knowing that thousands of people, everyday, are getting the treatment they need, regardless of their personal circumstances.

I don't buy into this whole, 'socialised medicine is evil' bollocks.

America can't afford it because of their debt. Protip, don't spend more on your military, than all of the European countries combined, then maybe you'd have some cash left over to stop your own citizens dieing from easily treatable illnesses.

Hah, I spent the entirety of the month of June going through what you went through. Never had surgery or even had a hospital stay before. Had the appendix out, got sick aftwerward and spent a week in the hospital. I think maybe every appendectomy goes that way because I haven't talked to anyone who didn't get an infection.

I live in the US. Didn't pay a dime. I have good insurance. Some people just get lucky, it's not really the kind of luck I want but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Because the right wing in this country loves to oppose any kind of reform the left wants. They employ fear tactics (something that is so petty and infuriating in its effectiveness it frankly makes me want to scream) and for some reason, every idiot in the country believes them. They keep prattling: We have the best health care system in the world!

No. We don't. Not by a long shot.

Everyone deserves coverage. Except no one is really willing to pay for it. I swear to god, I have no idea why people are so deathly afraid of raising taxes in this country. IT'S HOW LITERALLY EVERYTHING GETS PAID FOR. And the rich have absolutely no leg to stand on. Shut up, if you're worth more than $10 million dollars, you're never going to poor, your money makes more money than you could ever possibly spend it, and it's your duty as a citizen to help your countrymen. You know, it's a very basic concept we're taught to do at a very young age: Share. I will never understand the irrational behavior that is greed.

Haha, your reasoning is exactly what is wrong with America. How old are you? Just because some people take risks with their money and their risks pay off don't mean YOU should be rewarded with their money. They worked hard to earn their money, it is THEIR right to do with it as they please. Raising taxes is terrible. The more "free" programs are there, the less incentive there is to work hard and get ahead in life. If we lived in a socialist, "free" country, then we'd have no iPhones. Oh, you think we would? Well, if Steve Jobs didn't get any money from inventing the latest and greatest in technology, what incentive is there to do it? To help out his fellow countrymen? Please. Stop being so ignorant.

You seem to be confused with the difference between 'extra taxes' and 'having every penny stolen from you by communist pigs'.

It's quite hilarious actually, considering that Americas standard of health service is on par with some 3rd world countries in some states.

 

[CD-R]

As for the Obama Care thing one of the key points for it was that insurance companies can't deny you insurance for a pre-existing condition. And it did pass but I don't think it goes into effect until 2014.

Here's the thing. In the US we spend a ton of money on the military. Those wars in the Middleast aren't cheap. If we spent only half the money that we do on the military we could probably afford universal health care.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

My appendix tried to kill me a few years back (that treacherous bastard), and since I'm lucky enough to live in a country that doesn't penalise me for getting ill (the U.K.), I was given the treatment I needed and the aftercare to ensure that I didn't get killed off by a raging infection (my case was a particularly nasty one).

That was my first, and hopefully, last visit to the hospital (excluding my birth, of course).

Now, I don't care if I get taxed for healthcare and never end up in hospital again, because I know how scary it can be, and the last thing you want to worry about, is how you're going to pay for any of it.

I will gladly pay my taxes, knowing that thousands of people, everyday, are getting the treatment they need, regardless of their personal circumstances.

I don't buy into this whole, 'socialised medicine is evil' bollocks.

America can't afford it because of their debt. Protip, don't spend more on your military, than all of the European countries combined, then maybe you'd have some cash left over to stop your own citizens dieing from easily treatable illnesses.

Hah, I spent the entirety of the month of June going through what you went through. Never had surgery or even had a hospital stay before. Had the appendix out, got sick aftwerward and spent a week in the hospital. I think maybe every appendectomy goes that way because I haven't talked to anyone who didn't get an infection.

I live in the US. Didn't pay a dime. I have good insurance. Some people just get lucky, it's not really the kind of luck I want but I'll take what I can get.

Appendicitis is nasty. It isn't very life threatening per se, but there's a high probablity of getting a massive infection. Probably due to appendicitis basically having a sack of puss explode in your abdomen. You have to take so much antibiotics, that everything tastes like crap (for some reason, it affects your taste buds).

 

[Lord Beautiful]

*Post #281*

I love you.

Curse my impatience and apathy for preventing me from writing posts this good.

 

[Chevy235]

Like that?

The Ryan plan cuts spending severely... but at the same time slashes taxes on the rich. The defecit reduction comes almost entirely from the assumption that the wars we are in are gonna end at some point. At least, that's the side of the story I've heard. Care to tell YOUR side?

Actually, I had in mind this ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OGnE83A1Z4U

And this response:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Columns/2011/May/050211capretta.aspx

Or this response:

http://reason.com/archives/2011/04/06/paul-ryans-republican-budget-t

 

[coolman9899]

Well... Canada ftw?

OT: this system is all bollocs rubish in every single way it NEEDS! to be reformed

 

[Joshimodo]

No country anywhere has free healthcare, you just pay for it now instead of later. There's a reason taxes in the United States are among the lowest in the world, while medical bills here are through the roof. Though I should point out that Allison's insurance (you know, that she paid for) backed out, so if we're going to have some government intervention it should really be in making sure insurance companies don't do clearly illegal things like that.

In principle though, I don't have a problem with socialized healthcare. If the government wants to run a program, great. What I have a problem with is mandatory socialized healthcare. If someone wants to go with a private insurance provider instead of the government option, they should have the right to do that.

The other potential issue is that some operations have absurdly long waiting lists, so if you get backed up for two years for something that's going to kill you in six months, you're as shit out of luck there as if you get slammed with a $50,000 bill here. Basically you can die because you couldn't afford it, or you can die because you couldn't get the operation in time. Take your pick.

Thing is, most people don't have vast lump sums of cash to blow through in one payment. This is why healthcare works in other countries, like here in the UK. Paid for via taxes that are across the board, so you're never shelling massive payments or paying extortionate amounts of money for insurance.

Plus, every country that I know of that sports free healthcare also allows for privatised stuff to. Hell, virtually every doctor I know has their own private clinic on the side. The option is there.

As for waiting lists, they only exist for non-emergency problems (apart from when organ donors are required, at which point there is a waiting list no matter the country or healthcare system).