Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports

TheMysteriousGX

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Dunno where to put this horror show, but some GOP members are looking to block free school lunch funding because they aren't allowed to discriminate against trans kids


Transitioning is a process. Eg. Puberty blockers are literally pointless after puberty. But they ARE a part of the transitioning process. Note: You have to change the puberty blockers every couple of years as that is dangerous to your bones.

As an aside, surgery transitions also happens at birth. Some children have surgery in their first year to 'fix' genetalia. It is uncommon to leave it much longer than that. This has been normal and natural for almost a century

So it depends on what you call 'transitioning'.

But then, this isn't the point. The point is that transwomen can never be allowed to win. Because it's not about the ability of the person. Lia was already getting in the men's national competition. She was already a good swimmer. But no, the penis made her win or whatever nonsense has been made up

If you wanted to make it 'fairer', maybe you could change the number of years. 15 years is useless because there is no difference then. You may say 2 years is too close. Fine. There could have a been a discussion about moving the years. Maybe 3. Maybe 5

But that's not what happened, was it. It was a ban. A complete removesl. Which is the whole point. Congrats. You got your segregation
Nah, see, he only cares about the *science*. Never mind that Lia Thomas only won against a weak field and her times would've been somewhere between 2nd and 12th any other time this decade. Never mind that Katie Ledecky would've blown Lia Thomas out by 30 seconds, Lia has an unfair advantage!

What pisses me off most is people whining about losing to the trans girl when they aren't even within spittting distance of the champion. Why the fuck are they competing for second? Don't ***** about Lia Thomas, try to catch up to human fish Ledecky.
 

tstorm823

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Women's sport is about supporting women, not punishing people
Competition is not a support system. Not being able to compete is not a punishment.
Republicans: The party of hate. Hey, Tstorm, come tell us how this isn't just an effort to punish transgender children for being transgender.
Well you see, nobody is denying transgender children school lunches. That's not a thing that's happening. The USDA decided on its own (not as a result of events, not as a product of legislation) to require all schools receiving this funding to explicitly add gender identity to their Title IX anti-sex discrimination statements. Mind you, I highly doubt there is any reason schools can discriminate between children (other than wealth for needs-based programs). It's not like they can say "Sorry Becky, you're left handed, and our policies don't say we can't discriminate against left-handed people, so we're not gonna let you eat today." That's not a thing that's happening. But they're making all the schools add language to say that any complaint of discrimination based on gender identity will be filed as a sex discrimination complaint.

Which is to say: the USDA under the Biden administration, in order to solve a non-existent problem, has decreed that all schools must sign off on gender identity being of equal legal standing to sex, or they will cut off food for needy children. I'm gonna post a Fox News link here, not as an information reference (it's just as inaccurate as that tweet in different ways), but so you can see what this issue looks like from the other side:

There is no movement among Republicans to block the school lunch program. Not even the single senator mentioned intends to vote against it. The default outcome here is that the funding passes by unanimous consent without even discussing it. But given the above context, what this one GOP senator is considering doing is raising an objection which forces debate on the issue. The funding will still pass. It will still pass with overwhelming bipartisan support, possibly unanimous support. But he has the power to make them talk about it first. Just talk about it. Basically:

Democrats: *change rules in the bureaucracy and threaten to withhold school lunch funding*
One Republican: "Maybe we should talk about that rule they changed before we reauthorize this funding"
Left-wing Twitter: Republicans are trying to refuse lunch to trans kids!
 

Agema

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Women's sport is about supporting women, not punishing people
True. But sport also occurs with certain principles of fairness in competition.

The International Swimming Federation recently committed a report on transwomen, which suggested that transwomen could hold a significant competitive advantage in swimming. I don't know how good the report is (I suspect it will have limitations due to lack of data), but if transwomen are likely retain a competitive advantage after transition, it poses an issue that involves a great deal more complexity and discussion than being waved away with vague and broad appeals to "supporting women".
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Well you see, nobody is denying transgender children school lunches. That's not a thing that's happening.
There is no movement among Republicans to block the school lunch program.
You can't possibly believe that Republicans wouldn't start trying to deny school lunches to trans kids in an era where a Republican running for office is openly demanding that trans people be executed for treason.

I don't envy you here. Your trollish desire to be the contrarian has led you to defend the indefensible, and you only look more and more ridiculous doing it.
 
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tstorm823

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You can't possibly believe that Republicans wouldn't start trying to deny school lunches to trans kids in an era where a Republican running for office is openly demanding that trans people be executed for treason.

I don't envy you here. Your trollish desire to be the contrarian has led you to defend the indefensible, and you only look more and more ridiculous doing it.
You're referring a man who ran in two Republican primaries and lost both handily. You can't use a person Republican's don't even support locally as representative of half the country. That's just self-delusion.

But I appreciate that you didn't attempt to refute any actual facts. You're just going to speculate that Republicans waited until after Democrats made it specifically illegal to deny trans kids school lunches, so that now they can fight to remove that rule before they start starving children. Cause that's apparently the reasonable perspective here.
 

Trunkage

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True. But sport also occurs with certain principles of fairness in competition.

The International Swimming Federation recently committed a report on transwomen, which suggested that transwomen could hold a significant competitive advantage in swimming. I don't know how good the report is (I suspect it will have limitations due to lack of data), but if transwomen are likely retain a competitive advantage after transition, it poses an issue that involves a great deal more complexity and discussion than being waved away with vague and broad appeals to "supporting women".
Might I suggest you have a look at the video Phoenixings brought up

Talk to me afterwards
 

Trunkage

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You're going to have to give me an exceptional reason to slog through any YouTube video, especially one Phoenixmgs supplied.
Yeah, sorry for that confusion. They shared a video as a gotcha without listening to the whole thing, repeating one sentence in a video instead of all the information

 

Phoenixmgs

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No, you were pimping them as solutions and insistent that any day now you would be vindicated. When it never happened, you changed your story and lied about it like you always do.
Quote a post of where I said they worked...

Transitioning is a process. Eg. Puberty blockers are literally pointless after puberty. But they ARE a part of the transitioning process. Note: You have to change the puberty blockers every couple of years as that is dangerous to your bones.

As an aside, surgery transitions also happens at birth. Some children have surgery in their first year to 'fix' genetalia. It is uncommon to leave it much longer than that. This has been normal and natural for almost a century

So it depends on what you call 'transitioning'.

But then, this isn't the point. The point is that transwomen can never be allowed to win. Because it's not about the ability of the person. Lia was already getting in the men's national competition. She was already a good swimmer. But no, the penis made her win or whatever nonsense has been made up

If you wanted to make it 'fairer', maybe you could change the number of years. 15 years is useless because there is no difference then. You may say 2 years is too close. Fine. There could have a been a discussion about moving the years. Maybe 3. Maybe 5

But that's not what happened, was it. It was a ban. A complete removesl. Which is the whole point. Congrats. You got your segregation
You know what I mean by transitioning. Men have too many physical advantages that are irreversible. I mentioned height, lung and heart size. Men even have different pelvic anatomy. What happened was that the science was followed vs the "science".

Yeah, sorry for that confusion. They shared a video as a gotcha without listening to the whole thing, repeating one sentence in a video instead of all the information

I watched the whole video. I don't care about her opinion on it, I care about the science on it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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No, they don't.

Hormonal blockers are reversible. Puberty is much less so.

Letting someone take hormonal blockers before going through puberty allows them to make the choice, without being forced into anything permanent or painful.


Follow science vs following the "science"
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Follow science vs following the "science"
If you're arguing for science, maybe don't quote a center that grounds its arguments in biblical truth

I watched the whole video. I don't care about her opinion on it, I care about the science on it.
Lmao, what does this even mean
 

Trunkage

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You know what I mean by transitioning. Men have too many physical advantages that are irreversible. I mentioned height, lung and heart size. Men even have different pelvic anatomy. What happened was that the science was followed vs the "science".

I watched the whole video. I don't care about her opinion on it, I care about the science on it.
Yeah, I very much dont think you do.

Men have advantages in certain area over women if they go through puberty. Not every single man has advantages over every single woman.

It's why you have two different groups of scientists saying
Lia personally doesnt have an advantage and
Transwomen could relativity maintain advantages over specific areas two year after transitioning if they went through all of puberty

These two statements are not mutually exclusive. They can be both true

Now, of course, you totally missed the point. In this study, at 15 years there was little difference between a transwomen and women. You could have suggested a different time frame instead of 2 years. You didnt. It's now a complete ban. So following the science my ass

Then Sabine puts your whole opinion in jeopardy. She points out that you've got a false narrative around the word 'fair'. I.e. what is happening is you deliberately trying to set up people so they can fail.

But, of course, let's just ignore that
 

Silvanus

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Follow science vs following the "science"
Jesus H. Christ. Have you even read the links you posted?

So firstly, we have from the top of the second site....

World said:
Sound journalism, grounded in facts and Biblical truth
Lol, fuck that, I'm not going to trust any interpretations they draw from the study. Let's go to the study itself then. The preprint is here.

And the very first paragraph of the results in the study;

44 patients had data at 12 months follow-up, 24 at 24 months and 14 at 36 months. All had normal karyotype and endocrinology consistent with birth-registered sex. All achieved suppression of gonadotropins by 6 months. At the end of the study one ceased GnRHa and 43 (98%) elected to start cross-sex hormones.
So, the study is literally useless for checking if Hormone blockers are reversible or not, because all but one of the people in the study elected to take cross-sex hormones. And the study explicitly states that the respondents registered positive responses to GnRHa.
 
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Trunkage

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Hey @Phoenixmgs
Lia had a clear advantage, right? So they must have been 10 seconds ahead of everyone in that race, right?
Since they had an advantage, they also must have broken the national record, right?
Lia is just some random dude off the street and never was in national swimming competition... right?

(I can't believe I have to reask these questions to help people understand the issues... No wait. I meant totally believe.)
 

Phoenixmgs

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If you're arguing for science, maybe don't quote a center that grounds its arguments in biblical truth

Lmao, what does this even mean
Your studies that prove these studies wrong? Where is your proof?

I paid attention to the studies she talked about. That's how you base your opinion on something, look at the facts and decide. Her stance that sports is already unfair so we should let in more unfair things is her opinion and I don't agree with that. How is that hard to understand?

Yeah, I very much dont think you do.

Men have advantages in certain area over women if they go through puberty. Not every single man has advantages over every single woman.

It's why you have two different groups of scientists saying
Lia personally doesnt have an advantage and
Transwomen could relativity maintain advantages over specific areas two year after transitioning if they went through all of puberty

These two statements are not mutually exclusive. They can be both true

Now, of course, you totally missed the point. In this study, at 15 years there was little difference between a transwomen and women. You could have suggested a different time frame instead of 2 years. You didnt. It's now a complete ban. So following the science my ass

Then Sabine puts your whole opinion in jeopardy. She points out that you've got a false narrative around the word 'fair'. I.e. what is happening is you deliberately trying to set up people so they can fail.

But, of course, let's just ignore that
Lia personally doesn't have advantage sounds like an opinion. What data is that based off?

Why do I need to suggest a different time frame? I'm not the one doing these studies. If there's a study that says 7 years is fair, then that's fine, but it doesn't exist. I'm not gonna pull a number out my ass without any data to back it up and make policy.

That's her opinion, not mine. I don't have to share her opinion unless her opinion is an objectively proven fact, which it is not.

Jesus H. Christ. Have you even read the links you posted?

So firstly, we have from the top of the second site....



Lol, fuck that, I'm not going to trust any interpretations they draw from the study. Let's go to the study itself then. The preprint is here.

And the very first paragraph of the results in the study;



So, the study is literally useless for checking if Hormone blockers are reversible or not, because all but one of the people in the study elected to take cross-sex hormones. And the study explicitly states that the respondents registered positive responses to GnRHa.
And the NIH study?

Hey @Phoenixmgs
Lia had a clear advantage, right? So they must have been 10 seconds ahead of everyone in that race, right?
Since they had an advantage, they also must have broken the national record, right?
Lia is just some random dude off the street and never was in national swimming competition... right?

(I can't believe I have to reask these questions to help people understand the issues... No wait. I meant totally believe.)
You don't have to dominant to have an unfair advantage. Lia could've come in last and had an unfair advantage. I can't believe you think those questions have any meaning to them. Why even do any of the science when we can just solve with these questions and call it a day?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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You don't have to dominant to have an unfair advantage. Lia could've come in last and had an unfair advantage. I can't believe you think those questions have any meaning to them. Why even do any of the science when we can just solve with these questions and call it a day?
Lmao, if she'd coming in last how would you prove she has an advantage? God, it's the skateboarder chick all over again